I think there should be some changes to elemental susceptibility

Genfe · March 20

As a PVP who uses elemental sus I think this move is way too prevalent. Almost every person in PVP uses this move. It’s a mandatory slot for everyone with no reason to use the Other morph. In my opinion, it should have one or more of the following

A small cost( If you would like to have your Penetration debuff free use the other morph)

The ability to dodge it( Currently without a cleanse, you always have this on you. Sometimes five or six of them at a time)

A shortened range( This move has one of the longest ranges in the game further than any damage ability Aside from focused aim)

A shorter duration (22 seconds on this free ability Means it outlast any other healing overtime ability)

One instance at a time( There’s no reason I should be running around with seven different Ele sus on me)

These are just a few suggestion. I doubt they’re going to do anything with it, but it is extremely annoying to have this me 24 seven.

AcadianPaladin · March 20

Perhaps another example of why PvP and PvE need to be balanced separately. As a PvE'er, I run half a dozen mages. All of them provide major breach but only one of them uses ele sus to do so. Ele sus in PvE is an 'adequate' skill for what it does - the cost, range, duration, putting it on multiple targets helps it achieve this 'adequate' status.

The only nerf you mention that would be okay for PvE is that a target can only be affected by one ele sus. You could still place one case of it on multiple targets.

Genfe · March 20

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Perhaps another example of why PvP and PvE need to be balanced separately. As a PvE'er, I run half a dozen mages. All of them provide major breach but only one of them uses ele sus to do so. Ele sus in PvE is an 'adequate' skill for what it does - the cost, range, duration, putting it on multiple targets helps it achieve this 'adequate' status.

The only nerf you mention that would be okay for PvE is that a target can only be affected by one ele sus. You could still place one case of it on multiple targets.

I don’t pve a whole lot but I don’t believe reducing the range to 28m would make a difference but I could be wrong. It’s currently 48m in Cyro.

Being able to dodge it would be significant. It’s likely they would never change anything as I have little faith.

Adding a 1k cost wouldn’t be the worst either

Soarora · March 20

Of these, I think a cost or making it a dodgable projectile would be the least likely to affect PvE. You do need to be able to cast it on multiple targets, such as kite healer in Cloudrest ele sussing orbs, possibly adds and Z’maja.

Major_Mangle · March 20

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Perhaps another example of why PvP and PvE need to be balanced separately. As a PvE'er, I run half a dozen mages. All of them provide major breach but only one of them uses ele sus to do so. Ele sus in PvE is an 'adequate' skill for what it does - the cost, range, duration, putting it on multiple targets helps it achieve this 'adequate' status.

The only nerf you mention that would be okay for PvE is that a target can only be affected by one ele sus. You could still place one case of it on multiple targets.

Makes little sense why ele sus should be a free cost skill in PvE as well with how powerful of a skill it is. Reduce the range a bit a give it and cost.

Stx · March 21

Ele sus as a skill is so much better than other major breach skills it’s insane.

I also don’t understand why only destro staff has access to major breach but dual wielding/ two hand/ bow don’t.

Sluggy · March 21

The real power of the skill is the fact that it can actually function as a ranged spammable. One that is completely free to cast, with a powerful debuff, at longer than average range.

I actually like the uniqueness of that and the raw damage of the procs aren't that strong compared to most other common spammables. But the fact that it gets major breach and can be cast from long range is what makes it too strong in PvP. Essentially I can sit in the back of the line and spam this on any person I want to put some extreme pressure on them while they are fighting everyone else that is closer. And I'll absolutely never have to dedicate anything to that effort so even if the person fights through the line I'm completely topped off while they are likely worn out.

I think by significantly reducing the range, to perhaps 8 meters, it would be less effective since you'd need to get right up in the person's face. I don't think I'd be as willing to spam a slightly weaker than average spammable at that range. Getting rid of the breach would certainly make it less powerful in that case too because I'd still need to dedicate a whole other skill to that purpose. But it would still be a completely free, pseudo-spammable which is still interesting enough to warrant existing.

Turtle_Bot · March 21

Stx wrote: »

Ele sus as a skill is so much better than other major breach skills it’s insane.

I also don’t understand why only destro staff has access to major breach but dual wielding/ two hand/ bow don’t.

Mace and Mauls for DW and 2h respectively essentially give breach just for equipping them thanks to the passives.

As for bow, idk. Maybe it's the passives that directly boost crit? Staffs don't have passives that buff crits outside of frost staff brittle.

This isn't to excuse how strong ele sus is, but just a potential reason for those skill lines not having access to it.

It could also be that breach (in PvE) is typically a tank debuff, hence it is on the typical "tank weapons" 1h+s and (frost) staff and not the typical DPS weapons outside of flame/shock staff.

TBH, I would like to see ele sus be reworked to function like clench/reach/wall/impulse where the effect is based on the staff equipped (I saw someone post this idea a while ago):
Elemental Susceptibility.
1000 Magicka
28m range
Send the elements to sap your enemies defenses and afflict them with Major Breach for 30 seconds, reducing their physical and spell resistance by 5948. The elements also further sap the targets resistances to damage matching the equipped staff, causing them to take increased damage from attacks with the same type as the equipped staff. Applies the appropriate status effect once every 5 seconds.

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds.

Maybe it could also have built in execute scaling on the weakness to specific type of damage (scaling from 5% up to 10% for targets below 50% health?) along with an increase to its cost to 1500 or 2k mag cost, since staffs don't have an execute ability (impulse is not an execute ability since only the secondary DoT effect of flame impulse specifically has any execute scaling, not the base ability itself).

Afterip · March 21

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff most popular staff in pvp and only magsorcs do shock damage. Nice buff for op class

Major_Mangle · March 21

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds

This together with a cost and a range reduction is the most logical answer. A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well). The suggested change above still makes the skill very very good.

Urzigurumash · March 21

Nah leave it and give us a PBAoE morph of Caltrops. It would even out

Turtle_Bot · March 21

Major_Mangle wrote: »

show previous quotes

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds

This together with a cost and a range reduction is the most logical answer. A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well). The suggested change above still makes the skill very very good.

yep, I had added a 1k mag cost (or 1.5k-2k mag cost if adding the additional execute scaling on the damage type debuff) to the ability and it's range was reduced back down to 28m from it's current 35m.

Elemental Susceptibility.
1000 Magicka
28m range

Stx · March 21

Buff NB mark. It’s so bad compared to this weapon skill.

Kahnak · March 21

Major_Mangle wrote: »

show previous quotes

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds

This together with a cost and a range reduction is the most logical answer. A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well). The suggested change above still makes the skill very very good.

"A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well)"

Lol wut?

No explanation as to why. Just, I don't like this in PvP, and because of that the skill is overloaded and needs to be changed for PVE reasons, too. There is nothing wrong with this ability in PvE. If you want to change it for PvP specifically because it hurts people's feelings, that's fine, but don't pull PvE into it to try and validate your point. Talk about reaching.

Afterip · March 21

Reduce range to 28m, increase cost to 4k magic, reduce duration to 20 sec and add 20 sec DoT effect.

YandereGirlfriend · March 21

Kahnak wrote: »

show previous quotes

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds

This together with a cost and a range reduction is the most logical answer. A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well). The suggested change above still makes the skill very very good.

"A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well)"

Lol wut?

No explanation as to why. Just, I don't like this in PvP, and because of that the skill is overloaded and needs to be changed for PVE reasons, too. There is nothing wrong with this ability in PvE. If you want to change it for PvP specifically because it hurts people's feelings, that's fine, but don't pull PvE into it to try and validate your point. Talk about reaching.

Except that it IS objectively busted for PvE as well.

AcadianPaladin · March 21

Afterip wrote: »

Reduce range to 28m, increase cost to 4k magic, reduce duration to 20 sec and add 20 sec DoT effect.

PvE. For me this would translate to dumping the skill and slotting Caltrops instead for my major breach. Ele sus overpowered in PvE? No.

Major_Mangle · March 21

Kahnak wrote: »

show previous quotes

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds

This together with a cost and a range reduction is the most logical answer. A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well). The suggested change above still makes the skill very very good.

"A overloaded skill such as ele sus shouldn't be free of cost at least (amd this goes for PvE as well)"

Lol wut?

No explanation as to why. Just, I don't like this in PvP, and because of that the skill is overloaded and needs to be changed for PVE reasons, too. There is nothing wrong with this ability in PvE. If you want to change it for PvP specifically because it hurts people's feelings, that's fine, but don't pull PvE into it to try and validate your point. Talk about reaching.

Name any other skill in the game that is free of cost and does even a fracture of what ele sus does, I´ll wait.

Ohh wait there is none....

https://eso-hub.com/en/buffs-debuffs/major-breach

Belittling me by saying it "hurts my feelings" isn´t exactly some master rhetoric either. PvE isn´t some sandbox area where power creep and poor balance should go unchecked. Having powerful skills are fine, but not when there is little to no cost or trade-off associated to them. Turtle_bot suggestions are perfectly reasonable and would keep the skill very viable and powerful for PvE as well.

Jestir · March 21

Free cost skills should not be a thing

Finedaible · March 22

I still don't know how they could have looked at both Elemental Susceptibility and Mark Target - while Wrath of Elements is a thing - and somehow come to the conclusion that Mark Target is the one that should receive a resource cost despite the heal on it being very conditionally restricted in both PvP and PvE fights where it would matter.

Some changes just seem biased sometimes.

Genfe · March 22

Finedaible wrote: »

I still don't know how they could have looked at both Elemental Susceptibility and Mark Target - while Wrath of Elements is a thing - and somehow come to the conclusion that Mark Target is the one that should receive a resource cost despite the heal on it being very conditionally restricted in both PvP and PvE fights where it would matter.

Some changes just seem biased sometimes.

Even without the staff.

With double damage poisons.
Doing a heavy attack getting a shield with resource regen when it breaks.The regen from the heavy attack. The damage the procs do. The dots.

It’s just a lot that can be so overloaded with minimal investment.

Don’t get me wrong I love it. Just seems a little toooo much

BixenteN7Akantor · March 22

Technically no cost is also a downside as it doesn't proc effects asking you to use ressources or skills that cost ressources. x)

Sluggy · March 22

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

Technically no cost is also a downside as it doesn't proc effects asking you to use ressources or skills that cost ressources. x)

Yeah, but I mean, we have four or nine other skills that will fill that role.

olsborg · March 23

Make it cost more to cast and make it so it only applies the status effect depending on what type of staff you have slotted, burning only with flame staff, concussion only with lightning staff etc..

Solariken · March 23

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

show previous quotes

Stx wrote: »

Ele sus as a skill is so much better than other major breach skills it’s insane.

I also don’t understand why only destro staff has access to major breach but dual wielding/ two hand/ bow don’t.

Mace and Mauls for DW and 2h respectively essentially give breach just for equipping them thanks to the passives.

As for bow, idk. Maybe it's the passives that directly boost crit? Staffs don't have passives that buff crits outside of frost staff brittle.

This isn't to excuse how strong ele sus is, but just a potential reason for those skill lines not having access to it.

It could also be that breach (in PvE) is typically a tank debuff, hence it is on the typical "tank weapons" 1h+s and (frost) staff and not the typical DPS weapons outside of flame/shock staff.

TBH, I would like to see ele sus be reworked to function like clench/reach/wall/impulse where the effect is based on the staff equipped (I saw someone post this idea a while ago):
Elemental Susceptibility.
1000 Magicka
28m range
Send the elements to sap your enemies defenses and afflict them with Major Breach for 30 seconds, reducing their physical and spell resistance by 5948. The elements also further sap the targets resistances to damage matching the equipped staff, causing them to take increased damage from attacks with the same type as the equipped staff. Applies the appropriate status effect once every 5 seconds.

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds.

Maybe it could also have built in execute scaling on the weakness to specific type of damage (scaling from 5% up to 10% for targets below 50% health?) along with an increase to its cost to 1500 or 2k mag cost, since staffs don't have an execute ability (impulse is not an execute ability since only the secondary DoT effect of flame impulse specifically has any execute scaling, not the base ability itself).

I love these ideas.

One status effect per 5 sec (based on weapon type) plus Major Breach is plenty strong for a free-cast ability.

Ice staff is currently a little too strong as a back bar weapon in PvP, giving huge defensive boons in addition to all the offensive power that Ele Sus provides.

ESO_Nightingale · March 23

Solariken wrote: »

show previous quotes

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Ele sus as a skill is so much better than other major breach skills it’s insane.

I also don’t understand why only destro staff has access to major breach but dual wielding/ two hand/ bow don’t.

Mace and Mauls for DW and 2h respectively essentially give breach just for equipping them thanks to the passives.

As for bow, idk. Maybe it's the passives that directly boost crit? Staffs don't have passives that buff crits outside of frost staff brittle.

This isn't to excuse how strong ele sus is, but just a potential reason for those skill lines not having access to it.

It could also be that breach (in PvE) is typically a tank debuff, hence it is on the typical "tank weapons" 1h+s and (frost) staff and not the typical DPS weapons outside of flame/shock staff.

TBH, I would like to see ele sus be reworked to function like clench/reach/wall/impulse where the effect is based on the staff equipped (I saw someone post this idea a while ago):
Elemental Susceptibility.
1000 Magicka
28m range
Send the elements to sap your enemies defenses and afflict them with Major Breach for 30 seconds, reducing their physical and spell resistance by 5948. The elements also further sap the targets resistances to damage matching the equipped staff, causing them to take increased damage from attacks with the same type as the equipped staff. Applies the appropriate status effect once every 5 seconds.

Flame staff - Flame Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased flame damage and applies the burning status every 5 seconds.

Lightning staff - Lightning Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increased shock damage and applies the concussed status every 5 seconds.

Frost staff - Frost Susceptibility - Causes the target to take 5% increase frost damage and applies the chilled status every 5 seconds.

Maybe it could also have built in execute scaling on the weakness to specific type of damage (scaling from 5% up to 10% for targets below 50% health?) along with an increase to its cost to 1500 or 2k mag cost, since staffs don't have an execute ability (impulse is not an execute ability since only the secondary DoT effect of flame impulse specifically has any execute scaling, not the base ability itself).

I love these ideas.

One status effect per 5 sec (based on weapon type) plus Major Breach is plenty strong for a free-cast ability.

Ice staff is currently a little too strong as a back bar weapon in PvP, giving huge defensive boons in addition to all the offensive power that Ele Sus provides.

When i originally suggested the idea i said something like +15% damage done of that type and the status effect of the staff type every 4 seconds. Every 4 seconds means that you wont have 1 weird second of the debuff's downtime.

I'm glad you guys like the idea though. This direction for the skill makes a lot of sense compared to how strong it currently is.

dark_hunterxmg · March 24

This skill should cost around 4k to cast and last 20 seconds. A free to cast skill that has max range, lasts 30 (or 60) seconds AND can proc vat staff (when close enough) for free set it and forget it damage should not be a thing.

Joy_Division · March 24

Nerfing offense in PvP is a terrible idea atm because the game so heavily favors defense and healing.

Everyone uses this not because it's an amazing or interesting skill (it is probably the least interesting skill in the game), but because it's necessary to kill players who know what they are doing.

Genfe · March 24

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nerfing offense in PvP is a terrible idea atm because the game so heavily favors defense and healing.

Everyone uses this not because it's an amazing or interesting skill (it is probably the least interesting skill in the game), but because it's necessary to kill players who know what they are doing.

Then why is it free undodgeable max range damage.

People died before it was overloaded and they will die after it

ioResult · March 25

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nerfing offense in PvP is a terrible idea atm because the game so heavily favors defense and healing.

Everyone uses this not because it's an amazing or interesting skill (it is probably the least interesting skill in the game), but because it's necessary to kill players who know what they are doing.

Just like keeping the 5 stacks up on Grim Focus and its morphs when a Nightblade is out of combat is "necessary" for Nightblades "to kill players who know what they're doing"...oh wait...ZOS got rid of that already.

Mark Target costs 2700 Magicka and Noxious Breath costs just under 3K Stam. Both put Major Breach on a target for 20 seconds. Ele Sus puts Major Breach on a target for a full minute, so it should cost 3500 Mag or more as a base cost & have less range than Snipe or any of its morphs, so 22-28m is fine.

Bottom line? No free abilities in the game. Period.

dark_hunterxmg · March 25

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nerfing offense in PvP is a terrible idea atm because the game so heavily favors defense and healing.

Everyone uses this not because it's an amazing or interesting skill (it is probably the least interesting skill in the game), but because it's necessary to kill players who know what they are doing.

See my thread about healing. Lots of push back there.

People use this skill because why wouldn't they use something for free? Adding a cost wouldn't nerf the offense. It would still work the same way.