"Not just <insert name here>, but ALL OF TAMRIEL!"

Dahveed

Ugh.If I hear one more NPC utter this tired phrase I am going to puke.

Can we just have a DLC story that isn't centered around the potential destruction/enslavement of ALL OF TAMRIEL!!!?

I understand for a "main quest" the stakes have to feel like they're high, but how many times can one person save literally the entire world? It's getting harder to roleplay with every DLC.

tmacedo

That was people's main complaint a while ago and it resulted in High Isle story, which was...great (?). I mean, i liked some things but it seemed the general feeling was the story was weak. This combined with supereasy overland combat totally breaks the immersion/will to play the content

That's why people love Thieves Guild to this day. At least the zone story is good.

bmnoble

I wish they would move away from everything happening in one year.

And start doing some time jumps, to move the three banners war along a bit, it's supposedly a 20+ year long war, why must we be stuck in the first few years of it for all time, just give new players a simple heads up in game that the latest released content takes place a few years later and let them decide if they want to go back and play the older content first or just jump straight into the newer quests.

sans-culottes

bmnoble wrote: »

I wish they would move away from everything happening in one year.

And start doing some time jumps, to move the three banners war along a bit, it's supposedly a 20+ year long war, why must we be stuck in the first few years of it for all time, just give new players a simple heads up in game that the latest released content takes place a few years later and let them decide if they want to go back and play the older content first or just jump straight into the newer quests.

Right? It makes everything feel not only the opposite, but it also makes ESO feel like it’s caught in a bizarre time dilation field or something.

Varana

tmacedo wrote: »

That was people's main complaint a while ago and it resulted in High Isle story, which was...great (?).

No, it wasn't, it was one of the worst, if you include Firesong. But not because it didn't involve the destruction of ALL OF TAMRIEL!!! - because in the end, it basically did. It was unfocused, very predictable but not in a good way, didn't keep to its own promises, and in the end, it returned to every world-ending-villain-while-laughing-maniacally cliché ever devised by mankind.
They said they wanted to have less world-threatening and more local stories but apparently, they're unable to write them.

sans-culottes

Varana wrote: »

tmacedo wrote: »

That was people's main complaint a while ago and it resulted in High Isle story, which was...great (?).

No, it wasn't, it was one of the worst, if you include Firesong. But not because it didn't involve the destruction of ALL OF TAMRIEL!!! - because in the end, it basically did. It was unfocused, very predictable but not in a good way, didn't keep to its own promises, and in the end, it returned to every world-ending-villain-while-laughing-maniacally cliché ever devised by mankind.
They said they wanted to have less world-threatening and more local stories but apparently, they're unable to write them.

Agreed. That story was especially bad.

emilyhyoyeon

Varana wrote: »

tmacedo wrote: »

That was people's main complaint a while ago and it resulted in High Isle story, which was...great (?).

No, it wasn't, it was one of the worst, if you include Firesong. But not because it didn't involve the destruction of ALL OF TAMRIEL!!! - because in the end, it basically did. It was unfocused, very predictable but not in a good way, didn't keep to its own promises, and in the end, it returned to every world-ending-villain-while-laughing-maniacally cliché ever devised by mankind.

Yeah I couldn't believe it when I played the Galen questline after the incessant pointing out throughout the year that it wouldn't be another world destruction situation.
The Breton year story is demonstrably not a smallscale/grounded story.

Malyore

Something I'm noticing in hindsight is that even though Zerith Vars quest has a big dangerous threat at the end, it didn't really feel that way throughout the quest. It felt more personal and intriguing to where I didn't event consider the large-scale threat. It also wasn't a big intense fight at the end, which extends the feeling that it was a personal journey, small to the world but big to us.

Varana wrote: »

They said they wanted to have less world-threatening and more local stories but apparently, they're unable to write them.

I agree that they don't seem able to write those kinds of stories anymore, but I think even having just some decent characters like the Zerith example can make or break why the quest feels important. (Sorry Leramil et al... who I can't remember the names of. It just didn't feel like you mattered to me or the story of Gold Road. It's like I was playing with cardboard cutouts tied to me on a string, with them dragging on the ground and flapping in the wind, making unimportant noise wherever I run through the quest).

Am I correct in hearing though that the person who wrote the awesome Clockwork City story is the same one who worked on Zeriths, and that Zerith var was his last story for ESO?

Malyore

Dahveed wrote: »

Ugh.If I hear one more NPC utter this tired phrase I am going to puke.

Can we just have a DLC story that isn't centered around the potential destruction/enslavement of ALL OF TAMRIEL!!!?

I understand for a "main quest" the stakes have to feel like they're high, but how many times can one person save literally the entire world? It's getting harder to roleplay with every DLC.

The way I've tried to roleplay it lately is that we are actually unawarely in a dragon-break. We as the vestige are having to go around and stabilize all the daedric incursions so that mundus can mend and time can resume. This also helps explain why all the NPCs are clueless, living in a broken paradox I'm sure will do that to folks.

Trier_Sero

Idk where you guys are getting the idea that everything is happening in one year, it's clearly not. NPCs recall your older interactions with them all the time. Even in High Isle if you have done thieves guild questline Emerick will comment on that.

Maitsukas

Trier_Sero wrote: »

Idk where you guys are getting the idea that everything is happening in one year, it's clearly not. NPCs recall your older interactions with them all the time. Even in High Isle if you have done thieves guild questline Emerick will comment on that.

Dialogue with Zerith, even after you've done all of the content before he was added:

Zerith-var: "Pray tell me, zha'al, what year is it?"
Vestige: It's the year 582 of the Second Era.

Malyore

Trier_Sero wrote: »

Idk where you guys are getting the idea that everything is happening in one year, it's clearly not. NPCs recall your older interactions with them all the time. Even in High Isle if you have done thieves guild questline Emerick will comment on that.

It's the game itself sourcing that it's the same year. That's where we are getting the idea from.

magnusthorek

And I was thinking this topic would be about random NPCs greeting you for the same accomplishments every time you enter a town, like Alexandra Conele. I don't even remember who in the world she is... or was, but according to UESP it was YEARS ago.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

EnerG

I want a subtle but devastating story eventually. Say like, a family in house dres tries to provide reparations to beast folk and rope you into the good will untill you find out they have been using mind control magic on the "saved" slaves. Or maybe a plot to save an endangered animal from some form of poachers and this animal creates a rare potion ingredient. Something not all-life threatening, but something I can still feel compelled to do with gusto.

Eso doesnt hit into the nitty gritty of tes world, but make no mistake this world is rife with slavery, racism (yes even the making leather of other races kind) and trafficking on top of all the daedra stuff.

This kind of stuff (unfortunately) makes the world feel real so I want plots that touch and let me help these kinds of things.

xylena_lazarow

EnerG wrote: »

I want a subtle but devastating story eventually. Say like, a family in house dres tries to provide reparations to beast folk and rope you into the good will untill you find out they have been using mind control magic on the "saved" slaves.

Same, you can write some real and brutal stories within the TES world, the stakes for being deceived into supporting slavery would feel a lot higher to me than "oh no the multiverse" for the 894653th time.

Malyore

magnusthorek wrote: »

And I was thinking this topic would be about random NPCs greeting you for the same accomplishments every time you enter a town, like Alexandra Conele.

Haha I can hear him in my head but only a few bits and pieces. I also have no recollection of who that is.
"YOU were there when Alexandra Conele murmur murmur..." Is all I remember.
Or "To think Magister Vox/ a Dunmer could desecrate the shrine of st veloth. Why is the tribunal silent in the face of such atrocities?"

Nothing will be as traumatizing to ESO players though as the dialogue for when you haven't started a quest...

"Can you believe it? Dragons!..."

sans-culottes

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

EnerG wrote: »

I want a subtle but devastating story eventually. Say like, a family in house dres tries to provide reparations to beast folk and rope you into the good will untill you find out they have been using mind control magic on the "saved" slaves.

Same, you can write some real and brutal stories within the TES world, the stakes for being deceived into supporting slavery would feel a lot higher to me than "oh no the multiverse" for the 894653th time.

The more personal stories like this tend to be way better.

VoxAdActa

Malyore wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

And I was thinking this topic would be about random NPCs greeting you for the same accomplishments every time you enter a town, like Alexandra Conele.

Haha I can hear him in my head but only a few bits and pieces. I also have no recollection of who that is.
"YOU were there when Alexandra Conele murmur murmur..." Is all I remember.
Or "To think Magister Vox/ a Dunmer could desecrate the shrine of st veloth. Why is the tribunal silent in the face of such atrocities?"

Nothing will be as traumatizing to ESO players though as the dialogue for when you haven't started a quest...

"Can you believe it? Dragons!..."

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Malyore wrote: »

Trier_Sero wrote: »

Idk where you guys are getting the idea that everything is happening in one year, it's clearly not. NPCs recall your older interactions with them all the time. Even in High Isle if you have done thieves guild questline Emerick will comment on that.

It's the game itself sourcing that it's the same year. That's where we are getting the idea from.

And yet we have had multiple "New Life Festivals"

It is just not physically possible for the Vestige to do everything within the span of a single year.

Nomadic_Atmoran

tmacedo wrote: »

That was people's main complaint a while ago and it resulted in High Isle story, which was...great (?). I mean, i liked some things but it seemed the general feeling was the story was weak. This combined with supereasy overland combat totally breaks the immersion/will to play the content

That's why people love Thieves Guild to this day. At least the zone story is good.

To add to this, the story wasn't actually contained to High Isle in the sense that it only impacted things there locally. The location was hosting a peace summit between the Alliance leaders and at every turn they were being targeted by assassins and kidnappers looking to install their own egotistical maniac as King/Emperor. It failed horribly at going back to what people really enjoyed about stories like Gold Coast, Thieves Guild and Orsinium. Stories that were localized and the impacts on things in the larger picture of Tamriel either being unknown or just so unimportant that it doesn't leave you feeling like its earth shattering if the bad guys have their way. It wasn't even that hard of a task to accomplish and somehow ZOS could not resist giving the story larger implications for the rest of the world.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

tmacedo wrote: »

That was people's main complaint a while ago and it resulted in High Isle story, which was...great (?). I mean, i liked some things but it seemed the general feeling was the story was weak. This combined with supereasy overland combat totally breaks the immersion/will to play the content

That's why people love Thieves Guild to this day. At least the zone story is good.

To add to this, the story wasn't actually contained to High Isle in the sense that it only impacted things there locally. The location was hosting a peace summit between the Alliance leaders and at every turn they were being targeted by assassins and kidnappers looking to install their own egotistical maniac as King/Emperor. It failed horribly at going back to what people really enjoyed about stories like Gold Coast, Thieves Guild and Orsinium. Stories that were localized and the impacts on things in the larger picture of Tamriel either being unknown or just so unimportant that it doesn't leave you feeling like its earth shattering if the bad guys have their way. It wasn't even that hard of a task to accomplish and somehow ZOS could not resist giving the story larger implications for the rest of the world.

For some reason we also switched which Druidic faction were the bad guys between High Isle and Galen. In High Isle the Eldertide were the bad guys and Firesong are just mysterious, but in Galen (and the Dungeons in-between) it’s Firesong is evil, Firesong are the bad guys, Firesong have always been evil even back to the days of the Druid King! Oh those Eldertide guys? They were just a sub-faction that will not cause any drama with their brethren going forward nor ever come up again, pay them no mind! *sigh*

Northwold

One of the problems, I found, in more recent chapters was that the game presented ONLY an A plot (almost invariably the world will end), without using B plots to actually make the player care about the characters whose world will end in the first place and make them feel like fully functioning human / whatever beings.

As a result, the characters become tedious, one-note walking exposition devices whom you'd quite like to assassinate.

It's a very long time since I played Thieves Guild, IMO the absolute high water mark of ESO writing, but two things stand out.

One, it was not even remotely an end of the world plot.

But just as importantly, two, it most certainly didn't present you with "there are rumblings of a plot" --> "we have discovered the nature of this plot" --> "my goodness it's not a mere plot but a nefarious conspiracy of a scale we had not, until you clicked this dialogue, imagined" --> "we must defeat the ring leader" --> "you have killed them thank you so much here is 200 gold and a hat" --> "the world is now fine, hero, here is a small party".

As I recall, it started with some girl on a plank talking about her aspirations, took you through the domestics of the cast's dynamics, and little by little tightened away from these elements into the actual A plot, which had actually been winding along for a while pretending to be a B plot. Without those background elements, you wouldn't have given a damn because you'd be playing an utterly pointless sequence of set pieces with dull robots (hello the Anchorite, hello Princess Svana, etc) driving to an entirely predictable ending.

Kittytravel

Malyore wrote: »

Something I'm noticing in hindsight is that even though Zerith Vars quest has a big dangerous threat at the end, it didn't really feel that way throughout the quest. It felt more personal and intriguing to where I didn't event consider the large-scale threat. It also wasn't a big intense fight at the end, which extends the feeling that it was a personal journey, small to the world but big to us.

Varana wrote: »

They said they wanted to have less world-threatening and more local stories but apparently, they're unable to write them.

I agree that they don't seem able to write those kinds of stories anymore, but I think even having just some decent characters like the Zerith example can make or break why the quest feels important. (Sorry Leramil et al... who I can't remember the names of. It just didn't feel like you mattered to me or the story of Gold Road. It's like I was playing with cardboard cutouts tied to me on a string, with them dragging on the ground and flapping in the wind, making unimportant noise wherever I run through the quest).

Am I correct in hearing though that the person who wrote the awesome Clockwork City story is the same one who worked on Zeriths, and that Zerith var was his last story for ESO?

I think the main reason this feels the way it does is because Zerith-Var's entire story line is purely conjecture on his part and it's made clear. He THINKS it will be bad; but... he really can't be certain. The place, the time, the setting, the heroes they are all different now. Perhaps he's wrong; perhaps this isn't the big threat that he feels it is. Perhaps he's just an ancient relic compared to the modern day threats occurring now.

A lot of that type of writing is why other quest lines seem to succeed or fail compared to other zones. Clockwork City, Vvardenfell, and Apocrypha were some of my favorite in those regards (aside from the annoying followup from Gold Road that did turn it into a world-ending scenario). All of those zone stories despite being world ending threats seemed much more localized, much more unsure if they were actually the world ending threat that it was. I mean hell Sotha-Sil's entire demeanor throughout his story is one of... distinct lack of urgency. As if he knows that while it would be a terrible loss he understands that the world will survive somehow.

Writing the story to be a little more unsure, a little more theoretical would help the flow of a LOT of it. Because in a world filled with this much destructive forbidden and chaotic magic how can you really be certain that your volcano is anymore world-ending than Vvardenfell's?

DestroyerPewnack

Dwaagens? In your own homeland?!

Dahveed

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Dwaagens? In your own homeland?!

That's unpossible!

kastylx

Dahveed wrote: »

Ugh.If I hear one more NPC utter this tired phrase I am going to puke.

Can we just have a DLC story that isn't centered around the potential destruction/enslavement of ALL OF TAMRIEL!!!?

I understand for a "main quest" the stakes have to feel like they're high, but how many times can one person save literally the entire world? It's getting harder to roleplay with every DLC.

Man im dc and only halfway thru glenumbra but ive went back in time twice, saw everyones grandma as a ghost, saved bloodlines, companions, escaped the coldharbour, went back several times.. etc.

Full of *** and everyone has a spell fir every problem yet nobody helps just "ill do that while you save everyone"

Side quests are a lot more enjoyable.