Addon Squishy Finder

sshogrin

I think the addon Squishy Finder should be banned from the game.
Things that mark people with low health/low max health/low penetration shouldn't be allowed in the game. This is an exploit. If people in PvP were "that good", they shouldn't need a cheat addon such as this. You should be able to just use someone's health bar above their head, not an addon that marks "easy kills".
I have seen people target a specific player in a group of 8 or more because they are using this cheat addon.
ZOS, you need to ban this addon.
@ZOS_Kevin , doesn't this go against the TSA or what addons can/can't do?

Morvan

It looks like some people on the other thread are not aware you can already see players max health by just changing this setting under combat.



From what I've seen on videos, all that SquishyFinder does is to label player as squishy/tank when you target them, using the health information that you already have access without add-ons.

PvPers know you're squishy with or without add-ons, you'll get focused either way, on BGs I always mark squishy people or healers for my group to focus them, we already have tools for that built-in.

Pixiepumpkin

Ok, then the addon is unneccesary and should be banned.

Morvan

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok, then the addon is unneccesary and should be banned.

Why? If you can already see if someone is squishy without it, how is the add-on any harmful?

A discussion about whether people should be able to see your health numbers or not would make much more sense here.

Pixiepumpkin

Morvan wrote: »

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Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok, then the addon is unneccesary and should be banned.

Why? If you can already see if someone is squishy without it, how is the add-on any harmful?

A discussion about whether people should be able to see your health numbers or not would make much more sense here.

Because according to you, its redundant....ergo, not necessary. It only serves to increase lag.

Morvan

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Because according to you, its redundant....ergo, not necessary. It only serves to increase lag.

That's client sided, it would only affect whoever is using it, but since it's a simple UI add-on I really doubt it would.

There are tons of add-ons we could call redundant, but that's just opinion based, some people just like having more information on their screen.

I could see it being very useful for people with visual impairment.

Sluggy

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

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Morvan wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok, then the addon is unneccesary and should be banned.

Why? If you can already see if someone is squishy without it, how is the add-on any harmful?

A discussion about whether people should be able to see your health numbers or not would make much more sense here.

Because according to you, its redundant....ergo, not necessary. It only serves to increase lag.

Overall I think the argument is kind of a non-starter. It's mostly harmless and I say that as a person that generally hates all the UI combat addons that fill the screen with meters and timers and whatnot.

But arguing that it affects lag is just completely false. This is entirely client-side and has absolute zero impact on the server.

Pixiepumpkin

Sluggy wrote: »

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Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok, then the addon is unneccesary and should be banned.

Why? If you can already see if someone is squishy without it, how is the add-on any harmful?

A discussion about whether people should be able to see your health numbers or not would make much more sense here.

Because according to you, its redundant....ergo, not necessary. It only serves to increase lag.

Overall I think the argument is kind of a non-starter. It's mostly harmless and I say that as a person that generally hates all the UI combat addons that fill the screen with meters and timers and whatnot.

But arguing that it affects lag is just completely false. This is entirely client-side and has absolute zero impact on the server.

Its not harmless, in fact it works REALLY good. I am using it right now and the addons abilty to call out enemy types makes this easy mode.

Its completely unfair, I will die on this hill!

Pixiepumpkin

Morvan wrote: »

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Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Because according to you, its redundant....ergo, not necessary. It only serves to increase lag.

That's client sided, it would only affect whoever is using it, but since it's a simple UI add-on I really doubt it would.

There are tons of add-ons we could call redundant, but that's just opinion based, some people just like having more information on their screen.

I could see it being very useful for people with visual impairment.

You dont need visual imparement, this addon makes it super easy and obvious who to target. I downloaded it, using it right now. Wife sitting behind me laughing at how this can be allowed.

Its not reven remotely the same thing as the base game UI in its function.

Pixiepumpkin

Morvan wrote: »

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Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Its not harmless, in fact it works REALLY good. I am using it right now and the addons abilty to call out enemy types makes this easy mode.

Its completely unfair, I will die on this hill!

[snip]

Please show me how your UI looks without the addon when targeting an enemy player, and show me what your UI looks like when using the addon and targeting an enemy player.

[edited to remove quote]

Morvan

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

You dont need visual imparement, this addon makes it super easy and obvious who to target. I downloaded it, using it right now. Wife sitting behind me laughing at how this can be allowed.

Its not reven remotely the same thing as the base game UI in its function.

I didn't say you NEED it, I meant a person with visual impairment might have issues reading HP numbers in a fight, so that add-on would help them out a lot.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Please show me how your UI looks without the addon when targeting an enemy player, and show me what your UI looks like when using the addon and targeting an enemy player.

I did on my second post here, it's just common sense, anyone can see how much HP you have, and any PvPer knows that people around 25k or under that are usually squishy and easy to kill, they'll TAB target you, get in your whole group to hit kill you and walk out.

Pixiepumpkin

Morvan wrote: »

show previous quotes

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

You dont need visual imparement, this addon makes it super easy and obvious who to target. I downloaded it, using it right now. Wife sitting behind me laughing at how this can be allowed.

Its not reven remotely the same thing as the base game UI in its function.

I didn't say you NEED it, I meant a person with visual impairment might have issues reading HP numbers in a fight, so that add-on would help them out a lot.

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Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Please show me how your UI looks without the addon when targeting an enemy player, and show me what your UI looks like when using the addon and targeting an enemy player.

I did on my second post here, it's just common sense, anyone can see how much HP you have, and any PvPer knows that people around 25k or under that are usually squishy and easy to kill, they'll TAB target you, get in your whole group to hit kill you and walk out.

Please show me your UI with and without the addon. I want to make sure we are on the same page and seeing the same thing. My UI is clearly not set up properly as I am seeing a huge advantage using the addon.

Morvan

sshogrin wrote: »

The issue comes in not "single player" like you are screen shotting. If you are in a group, it will easily single a player out through the 8 or dozens of players in a zerg or ball group.

But that's exactly how the add-on functions, it only shows if the ONE person you're targetting is squishy or tanky, I can do the exact same thing by just looking at their HP.

The add-on won't mark a specific person in a group, that's why I'm saying TAB targetting is much more useful for that, because you can highlight whoever squishy person you find in a whole group and go for them.

Artim_X

I first heard about this addon in a Battlegrounds chat today. It seems to just be extra UI shenanigans. I personally play with nameplates, alliance indicators, health bars, etc. All on. Your health is not a secret.

If I see someone that needs to be slapped, I tab target (as mentioned above it's a free in-game wallhack) and maybe even add one of the new fancy new icons ZOS added a while ago so I have them on my compass/screen 💀

This addon is fine, use it or not, the result will likely be the same.

Sluggy

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

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Sluggy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok, then the addon is unneccesary and should be banned.

Why? If you can already see if someone is squishy without it, how is the add-on any harmful?

A discussion about whether people should be able to see your health numbers or not would make much more sense here.

Because according to you, its redundant....ergo, not necessary. It only serves to increase lag.

Overall I think the argument is kind of a non-starter. It's mostly harmless and I say that as a person that generally hates all the UI combat addons that fill the screen with meters and timers and whatnot.

But arguing that it affects lag is just completely false. This is entirely client-side and has absolute zero impact on the server.

Its not harmless, in fact it works REALLY good. I am using it right now and the addons abilty to call out enemy types makes this easy mode.

Its completely unfair, I will die on this hill!

Meh, if they removed it that would be fine with me. I won't fight you on that hill because I rather like the idea of all combat-related addons removed.

But when it is removed and people still spot you in a crowd, then what? Don't count out people's ability to remember names. One of the very first skills you develop in PvP is to slow down, take a second, and see who you are up against. Assessing a situation works better than any addon.

Morvan

Artim_X wrote: »

I first heard about this addon in a Battlegrounds chat today. It seems to just be extra UI shenanigans. I personally play with nameplates, alliance indicators, health bars, etc. All on. Your health is not a secret.

If I see someone that needs to be slapped, I tab target (as mentioned above it's a free in-game wallhack) and maybe even add one of the new fancy new icons ZOS added a while ago so I have them on my compass/screen 💀

This addon is fine, use it or not, the result will likely be the same.

Exactly, the add-on only shows up for the single person you're targetting, and whenever you have someone targetted, you can already see their HP, so all it does is add UI clutter, it doesn't give any information you don't already have.

The only scenario I can see this add-on being useful is if you don't want or can't read healthbars, it can be an actual useful tool for people with ocular impairment.

And also, this add-on has a very low amount of downloads, so it's highly unlikely anyone focusing you is using it, they just know you're squishy.

said no one ever

i vote for banning all addons in pvp

opethmaniac

This addon only uses baseline functionality from the LUA-interface (get HP of player) and makes a fancy screen output from this number. It's technically impossible to ban this addon. Otherwise ZOS has to disable the functionality for getting players HP, and that would make literally 90% of all addons disfunctional.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

I do not think claiming someone is squishy just on their health is a good idea.

I have taken a less than 30k health tank into the IC, but here is the thing, that Tank also had 30k Armor and almost 5,000 critical resistances and gankers would struggle to do much damage.

virtus753

opethmaniac wrote: »

This addon only uses baseline functionality from the LUA-interface (get HP of player) and makes a fancy screen output from this number. It's technically impossible to ban this addon. Otherwise ZOS has to disable the functionality for getting players HP, and that would make literally 90% of all addons disfunctional.

ZOS got the author of Hodor to remove remote control of other players’ characters without disabling the map ping API abused to make that happen. They don’t have to take the technical route to enforce their ToS unless an add-on author forces the point.

Ezhh

An experienced half-decent PvPer will very quickly identify which targets are "squishy" vs tanky. The addon might save them ten seconds of observation tops at the start of a BG.

It's only less experienced people who are likely to gain more from it, and those people also likely don't understand that hp isn't the only measure of who is an easy target. If you only rely on this you will also sometimes find yourself targeting the wrong people.

Morvan

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I do not think claiming someone is squishy just on their health is a good idea.

I have taken a less than 30k health tank into the IC, but here is the thing, that Tank also had 30k Armor and almost 5,000 critical resistances and gankers would struggle to do much damage.

It is exactly what this add-on does though, it tags people based on their HP alone, any average PvPer will know who to target in a fight, not just by their HP amount, but by how fast it goes down.

If you're in a group fight and they notice your HP is dancing up and down and you're struggling to survive, they won't care how much HP you have, they'll just all turn to you.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok. That is exactly what I see...and you know what, its a LOT easier to determine what you are up against, in the fast paced environemnt of this game with the numbers and "SQUISHY" right above the players head.

Its not even remotely the same. Without the addon, I have to move my eyes to read the name/health count. With the addon I can focus on the target itself.

This addon, plain and simple, gives an unfair advantage to those who use it.

It is a lot easier for you, if you don't PvP a lot and can't tell squishy people apart it can be helpful, in an actual group fight scenario, there are much more information going on that will help you determine who to focus.

This is a 2021 add-on that haven't been updated since then and barely have any downloads, something like Miat's PvP Alerts is much more widely used in the PvP community, and gives you actual useful information that you could argue is "unfair".

You will very unlikely ever find people using this on PvP, perhaps now that you guys are adversatising it as an "advantage" we get to see it more, I'm very sure any active PvPer will agree with me on this, they don't need this add-on to tell that you're squishy, even in fast paced group combat.

cptscotty

Do people think others cant see your health? This is a really weird thing to complain about because its not hidden and there are addons that track stuff like debuffs/buffs/timers which are a lot harder to view with the default UI than a persons health is.

Heren

Most add-ons simplify reading the base-game UI. They allow the display of certains informations in a more efficient way. Apparently this one do exactly that. So either ban all add-ons, or allow them all.

Barovia87

I enjoy playing Support oriented characters, in all aspects of the game - PvE and PvP. Mostly Healers these days, but I've done a lot of Tanking/Tanky builds, too. Once upon a time, I did a lot of WoW PvP as a Healer. I had a ton of fun. Until the "Kill the Healer" addon became popular. It was a clusterfetch. Being repeatedly marked and killed by people who didn't even have to TRY to figure anything out on their own wasn't fun. I play games to have fun, so I stopped playing WoW PvP. I wasn't alone. WoW lost a ton of their dedicated PvP Support players at the time because they decided to allow it. I played PvE WoW for a while after that, but I never went back to PvP and eventually left the game altogether years ago for a multitude of reasons. I, personally, never saw the WoW PvP Support community ever recover. It was just DPS murder hobos as far as the eye could see, and I - and many others - find that incredibly stale and boring.

Auto-label and auto-target addons in PvP are always going to hurt community retention, and they're always going to hinder build variability and creativity. It's one more hammer forcing whatever the current sweaty Meta™ happens to be, and there are plenty of hammers already.

I agree this addon shouldn't be allowed, but I also assume ZoS will do nothing. ESO PvP will continue to struggle to attract and retain players, and the murder hobos will continue to resist any and all changes that might actually breathe life into their supposedly preferred gameplay style. Because they don't actually care about the health or longevity of the game - they're just here to grief.

A not insignificant percentage of the PvP community are just jerks, and they tend to flock to PvP. And frankly: ZoS wants their money, too. I really wish they'd strike a different balance point on pandering to lazy jerks, but I don't exactly have high hopes.

I will not be arguing about the minutiae of UI options. No, your Health isn't a secret in ESO - but giant flashing signs auto marking targets in PvP is ridiculous and clearly not the same thing.

Ezhh

Barovia87 wrote: »

Auto-label and auto-target addons in PvP are always going to hurt community retention, and they're always going to hinder build variability and creativity. It's one more hammer forcing whatever the current sweaty Meta™ happens to be, and there are plenty of hammers already.

There's no auto-labelling: You have to manually sweep around and target people to see anything. You only see the "squishy" info at the moment they are in your crosshairs and you'd see their hp bar anyway. Nobody is automatically labelled, and nobody stays labelled after you move your crosshair off them.

There's no auto-targeting: Why even bring something like that, which would be an obvious cheat, into this? This addon doesn't target people for you. If you want to focus someone you have to manually locate and then tab target just like you always do.


Maybe it's also worth pointing out that there are addons that move hp bars so they are not right at the top of the screen and can be in much easier places to see. So you'd have to block a lot more addons to remove what some might say is an advantage of not moving your eyes so far to see the hp. And to me at least, that info is even more informative than squishy finder, since I have the class icon by the players hp bar, and that info with the hp info gives a much more accurate idea of who might be an easy kill than hp alone.

Pixiepumpkin

Morvan wrote: »

It is a lot easier for you

No, its easier for EVERYONE who uses the addon, else the addon would have no reason to exist.

And that is the proof in the pudding. I dont care if the same health info is in game. This addon specifically calls out (gives hints) on what targets to attack and which to avoid.

It allows for griefing and harassment. PERIOD!

sshogrin

Sweeping the PvP players and having the addon show who is squishy and who is tanky isn't the same as looking at health bars.
Housing addons are way different than combat addons, and addons like Essential Housing Tools are being slowly implemented into the game (look at the housing tours, that came from EHT)

fleetingyouth_ESO

Most pvpers who run this add on run it for the exact opposite reason the OP thinks. It helps you know who not to attack and avoid. If you see a monstrous player you just move on most the time.

My main is a 26k Templar and I get targeting instantly in most group fights. If it's a well organized group of 3 or more they team up on me. I'm sure some use this add on but I doubt everyone does. If you're low health you're going to get targeted.
I don't instantly die, I use all the tricks and skills to evade and burst the biggest threat first. Having low health can have advantages in overall damage but with high risks. If you can't survive get a tankier build.

If anything this add on helps newer less skilled players get kills and avoid stronger opponents in smaller group engagements. If you can't avoid being targeted in most scenarios you shouldn't be playing with low health builds. This add on doesn't change that.

YandereGirlfriend

This add-on is pure cheese, 100%.

But the underlying issue that has already pointed out is simply being able to even observe the HP values of players in PvP environments at all. That should be removed entirely.

Enemy players should be black boxes that you have to use your actual PvP skill and knowledge to solve. Not by cheesing or crutching on UI.

Wereswan

cptscotty wrote: »

Do people think others cant see your health? This is a really weird thing to complain about because its not hidden and there are addons that track stuff like debuffs/buffs/timers which are a lot harder to view with the default UI than a persons health is.

Until reading this thread, I always assumed PvPers could see that information because of an add-on, rather than a base game setting. Outside of PvP, there isn't much reason you'd need to be aware of another player's health pool.