is Warden not popular?

propain · February 26

I was looking through some build videos and one stood out to me that looked really fun and powerful to try. It was on a warden class but after thinking about it more I really don't see that many Wardens. Are they not good or popular? Even browsing through the roster of the multiple guilds I am in, there are barely any Wardens and I really don't see them when I do my random daily dungeons. I can't speak on the PVP side of things since i don't do much of that if you see them more of them there, but overall I feel like barely anyone plays them and I am curious why.

LadyGP · February 26

For the PvP side we love Warden - at least in group situations. It's a hard hitter when it comes to burst dps in a short window.

AzuraFan · February 26

Warden is my favourite class. I don't know what you want to do in the game, but you can make anything work. Play what looks fun to you. I do dungeons every day (normal, some easy vet). I see wardens a lot in dungeons, mainly as healers. Many of them don't have a bear out. I always do, but many of the wardens I see in dungeons don't.

Soarora · February 26

They are around as PvE healers and in PvP, but PvE DPS and tank not so much. Tank more niche, but also good for 3DPS dungeon runs and some trials. Warden DPS is overshadowed by better options, it doesn’t bring anything unique because there’s a warden support already in most groups and it doesn’t do top single target or AoE damage. I think I have my frost themed warden linked in my signature if you want to take a look at it. It does damage for sure despite not being meta, but it’ll only ever do half the DPS of an arcanist due to not having the aoe of fatecarver.

Navaac223 · February 26

In pve you will pretty much only see healers because warden DDs aren't that great and warden tanks are just above templar tanks, and that doesn't say much. Add to that the fact that the skills don't feel that great and that they have a pretty bad spammable and you'll understand why you don't see a lot of them. As healers they're some of the best classes out there though

In pvp there are 3 ways to play it : unkillable polar wind spammer, acuity warden (so basically holding block for 10 minutes and then kill everyone with your ult) and actually trying to have fun.

So yeah, there are a lot of reasons not to play warden but some people like it and if you think it looks cool, play it.
Just because pve stamblade DD and pvp stamcro are some of the worst playstyles doesn't mean I don't have hundreds of hours on them

tmacedo · February 26

I see a lot in pvp, between northern storm and polar winde, they are very annoying to kill. As a dd in pve i dont see that much, just more healers. Even tank i cant recall when i last saw one.

SkaiFaith · February 26

Favourite class.
Really great to solo hard content.
I also find it pretty good in 1v1 PvP - I get occasional duels invitation and even when I have it specced in my Roleplay build it manages to win.

About seeing them around, I agree it doesn't seem a popular class but a lot of PvP and IA clips I see are from Wardens...
I also got some random "what's that class?" when with my Warden; never happened to me with the other classes XD

valenwood_vegan · February 26

I mostly play as a dps and have thus never gotten very into warden in pve. Their dps is nothing special, the class is thematically kind of all over the place, and the skills feel clunky and seem to be the target of frequent kinda random back and forth balance passes by zos.

At least from my point of view, I'd consider these to be the main reasons it's not that popular in pve.

I had an ice warden which was not meta by any means, but was a lot of fun to play and was briefly good *enough*, till zos decided to change piercing cold and arctic blast... *again*.

I do use one as a healer. And a pvp-modified version of my warden healer does quite well when I dabble in pvp.

Grizzbeorn · February 26

My main is a Warden.
I have a handful of other Warden characters, as well.
It's my favorite class in this game.

OsUfi · February 26

I main and only have a Necro and Warden, partly for the love of both classes, partly for the uniqueness. Every time I see a poll of "what's your main?" here or on Reddit Necro and Warden are always flat bottom.

Dax_Draconis · February 26

I've been having fun with mine doing solo PvE. Even soloed some base game dungeons with it.

SilverBride · February 26

Warden is the only class I don't have. I always see them being tanks and healers, neither of which appeals to me. I also don't want a huge bear in my way all the time.

Thumbless_Bot · February 26

From a pvp perspective Warden is perfect.... Perrrrrrrfect. Other classes might be stronger or weaker, but, if there were a poster child that they could all align to for balance I think it would be Warden... stam warden in particular.

ESO_Nightingale · February 26

Pve DPS Warden isn't hugely popular for many reasons. I've mained it for 7 years+ and struggled on the forums the entire way to get frost damage dealing to be a thing. It was a thing for a little bit but implemented in a kind of oppressive way so they removed that on piercing cold so we're back in viability purgatory.

AzuraFan · February 26

SilverBride wrote: »

Warden is the only class I don't have. I always see them being tanks and healers, neither of which appeals to me. I also don't want a huge bear in my way all the time.

My bear never gets in the way. They're not that big, and my bear tanks better than some players do, from what I've seen when running with pugs.

Stx · February 26

I love warden. I like playing nature caster types in games with animals and stuff.

mdjessup4906 · February 26

Group Pve wise, warden can dps and tank just fine. They just tend to be healers because of the way trial group comps work. And healers and tanks are far less common than dps in general.

TaSheen · February 26

Out of nearly 70 alts, I have more wardens than anything else. I have nearly as many wardens across all accounts as I have every other class combined. Pve only.... both PC megaservers, 4 accounts.

ChaoticWings3 · February 26

As a warden main for several years I'll say they are not so great for PVE dps (which to be fair I'm terrible at), decent tanks (I actually main a tank with mine. Its great for PUG dungeons since I can off-heal when my group is struggling to stay alive in certain situations.), very good healers, and very good in pvp for their burst potential. I went from playing my dk to my warden to help out a guildie struggling to get a quest done in IC because of 6 DCs attacking every time they wanted to get the quest tick and it utterly destroyed two of them before unfortunately the rest of them swarmed me. Still got my guildie their quest tick so all was good. Went around IC after that getting into several other fights and only ended up dying once to the NB bow builds.....reason why I made this guy anti NB with magelight (had 10k tel var but I got my revenge and got back 2.5k from them).

So to answer the question. I don't think they are unpopular but you probably won't see them as a dps in PVE because the dps potential is a bit lower then other classes.

MaleAmazon · February 26

I´ve played all game styles (PvP, raids, quest, blah blah) but I mostly play solo. I enjoy all classes, but yeah warden is probably my least played. I think this has to do with how the warden plays when going mostly solo with questing, and generally mostly messing around in with various PUGs and the occasional battleground when it comes to team play.

I don´t think there is anything wrong with the warden, and there´s some stuff I really like personally like the class colour scheme, skills like lotus blossom and falcon´s swiftness (really neat gfx and sound when speeding around the zones mowing down all animals, which is very... preservation of nature-y?)...

And like all classes, there are, or has been, some seriously OP and powerful stuff for the Warden.

Thing is the warden seems to have many skills created specifically for team play and PvP, and IIRC this was basically a deliberate design when the class came out. This makes it a bit underwhelming when playing solo. You have class self-heals, but they are more designed for team play. Frozen Gate and Nature´s Grasp are like... huh? Thinking about it I guess you could use your companion as an ally for the vines now.. never tried it. Doesn´t seem too useful, though.

But I think the major 'problem' is frost. The Warden was designed around frost, which... kind of doesn´t make that much sense in the first place thematically, except the other damage types were sort of taken. DK gets flame and poison, Templar gets magic and flame and was always a great self healer, Sorcerers got lightning for magicka and physical for stamina, and Nightblades got magicka / physical /disease. (I know they´ve changed the classes quite a bit with patches, but that´s basically it.)

So, the Warden basically sort of got stuck with "stuff other classes don´t have and hodgepodge of leftovers". This means frost damage, and an emphasis on team healing and group play. And ZOS never got frost right - they tried to make it a magicka tank thing, which didn´t quite work. And personally regarding minmaxing I never could get over the fact that some passives were only for frost, when I used other damage types. Yes, I am diagnosed with OCD (no, really, I am).

(Oh, and apparently the Nature´s Gift passive only works on teammates. Why are they trying to force team play on people? Some of us like to be left alone...)

They´ve also changed things around so much and so many times that it is hard to keep track. Heck, I don´t even know what my warden skills do this patch. Never mind though, I am sure it will get changed next patch.

All this makes the Warden somewhat limited and kind of middling for solo play. I love playing all classes, but, well, there is something kind of 'meh' about the warden.

Personally I would like to see ego morphs for some warden skills, and have the Winter´s Embrace passives not be completely for frost.

And IMO they should add in bleed damage to the current class frost passives, now that they have Warden skills focus a bit on bleed damage. I mean, Sorcerer was designed around a lightning 'Palpatine wannabe' character type, but they wisely put in morphs and skills that meant you could play a stamina character with physical damage, without missing out. Making the Warden a frost / bleed class makes reasonable thematic sense and would allow for some more diversity for people looking for top DPS. Sure, it would be a little thing that wouldn´t affect most people in practice, but it would still be nice.

Oh, and while the cliff racer is not as annoying as in Morrowind, putting it in as the only real spammable... they were really pushing their luck...

said no one ever · February 26

SilverBride wrote: »

Warden is the only class I don't have. I always see them being tanks and healers, neither of which appeals to me. I also don't want a huge bear in my way all the time.

well at least the bear isnt flapping in your face. but yeah pets are obtrusive a lot when playing 1st person.

said no one ever · February 26

My main is a warden and what i like about it is that you can dps some with the stam side and also heal with the stam side as they are the only class that has an assortment of stam based heals. You have to be realistic though and make 2, 1 bar builds if you wish to do each. So yah, probably not a lot of vet hm trials for that i betting.

Kahnak · February 26

You're going to get a lot of mixed opinions here, so take them with a grain of salt. (including this one)

But, when you hear things like "Warden DD's are not that great." or "Wardens aren't very popular", these are opinions mostly based on the current meta.

Let me state explicitly that all DD's are viable to do everything up to and including Veteran trials, and with a little skill, it's totally possible to out perform players using top tier sets. Anything further than that and you may be pushing your luck, but realistically you're talking about the content that the top 1% of players are attempting at that point.

It's my opinion that Warden has some of the prettiest animations in the game and brings a lot to the table in the form of abilities and versatility - the latter being one of the reasons it makes such a good support class and why it is strong in PvP. I think the class is simple to understand and has a straightforward PvE rotation. I also think it has a pretty cool theme - there are a lot of people who like the concept of a frost mage type character and I think for the most part it fits that niche. The issue most people have is that none of the aforementioned praise translates directly to player power. Take that in addition to the fact that the class can sometimes feel like it has a bit of an identity crisis, but it's not because the foundation for a solid class is not present. Otherwise, I have greatly enjoyed playing Warden and I think that it's probably one of the most well-made classes in the game.

katanagirl1 · February 27

I have played every other class quite a bit, but recently created a warden dps when requested by my trials group leads as a “just in case” character. I have leveled her up and slotted the skills listed on the build for the resource I usually use, and I also feel like even in overland that the dps just isn’t as good. She’s running good sets too. When I play her, she feels kind of like my DK PvP character, she has a lot of buffs and it is sort of like a dance to get all those going before switching to the damage bar. That may be just because I usually run around on my stamblade which essentially has no buffs.

I guess my biggest hang up with her is shalks. I just don’t like that skill with the double cast thing or whatever you call it. I also don’t like the swirly arctic blast thing blocking my view of the character. Cutting dive seems slow, maybe I’m just not used to such fancy animations. I hate the bear so I choose other ultimates even at the cost of dps. I wish it hadn’t been shoehorned into the frost theme. I would prefer a flame staff.

So not my cup of tea, some people really seem to like them, though.

Desiato · February 27

Warden is a great class and pretty popular in my experience, but I don't look at what people in my trade guilds play...

They are the premier PVE healer and despite what you might hear, can DD very well too. Outside of optimized groups for HM trials, Warden in the DD role can be very good.

They can make excellent PVE tanks, especially without a healer.

They are amazing for solo vet PVE.

They are very strong in PVP.

The only reason we don't see more Warden DDs and tanks is because so many players follow the HM metas, even when they don't need to. Occasionally, I see warden dds in vet trials do extremely well.

ESO_Nightingale · February 27

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have played every other class quite a bit, but recently created a warden dps when requested by my trials group leads as a “just in case” character. I have leveled her up and slotted the skills listed on the build for the resource I usually use, and I also feel like even in overland that the dps just isn’t as good. She’s running good sets too. When I play her, she feels kind of like my DK PvP character, she has a lot of buffs and it is sort of like a dance to get all those going before switching to the damage bar. That may be just because I usually run around on my stamblade which essentially has no buffs.

I guess my biggest hang up with her is shalks. I just don’t like that skill with the double cast thing or whatever you call it. I also don’t like the swirly arctic blast thing blocking my view of the character. Cutting dive seems slow, maybe I’m just not used to such fancy animations. I hate the bear so I choose other ultimates even at the cost of dps. I wish it hadn’t been shoehorned into the frost theme. I would prefer a flame staff.

So not my cup of tea, some people really seem to like them, though.

You don't have to use a frost staff on warden. Especially not now. I'm pretty sure it's actual best magicka build uses a lightning staff right now.

Spacefish2323 · February 27

Warden is my least favorite PvE DPSer but my favorite PvP Healer. I parse similarly on mine to my other classes in PvE, just preference.

I think they should expand the skill styling from colors into what animals the wardens are using. My wardens are a Breton and a Nord and its kinda weirdge that other than the bear they only use Morrorwind creatures (Netch, Shalk, Fetcherflies, Cliff Racer). An Altmer warden should use like an Indrik, Argonian shalks could be like a wamasu breath, etc.

katanagirl1 · February 27

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have played every other class quite a bit, but recently created a warden dps when requested by my trials group leads as a “just in case” character. I have leveled her up and slotted the skills listed on the build for the resource I usually use, and I also feel like even in overland that the dps just isn’t as good. She’s running good sets too. When I play her, she feels kind of like my DK PvP character, she has a lot of buffs and it is sort of like a dance to get all those going before switching to the damage bar. That may be just because I usually run around on my stamblade which essentially has no buffs.

I guess my biggest hang up with her is shalks. I just don’t like that skill with the double cast thing or whatever you call it. I also don’t like the swirly arctic blast thing blocking my view of the character. Cutting dive seems slow, maybe I’m just not used to such fancy animations. I hate the bear so I choose other ultimates even at the cost of dps. I wish it hadn’t been shoehorned into the frost theme. I would prefer a flame staff.

So not my cup of tea, some people really seem to like them, though.

You don't have to use a frost staff on warden. Especially not now. I'm pretty sure it's actual best magicka build uses a lightning staff right now.

I did initially have one, but my understanding was you get a significant damage boost with ice staff. It’s not a big deal though, once I get her through the main quest I probably won’t use her for much other than daily crafting writs. I just have several other classes that I like playing much more.

Thanks for your reply.

ESO_Nightingale · February 27

katanagirl1 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have played every other class quite a bit, but recently created a warden dps when requested by my trials group leads as a “just in case” character. I have leveled her up and slotted the skills listed on the build for the resource I usually use, and I also feel like even in overland that the dps just isn’t as good. She’s running good sets too. When I play her, she feels kind of like my DK PvP character, she has a lot of buffs and it is sort of like a dance to get all those going before switching to the damage bar. That may be just because I usually run around on my stamblade which essentially has no buffs.

I guess my biggest hang up with her is shalks. I just don’t like that skill with the double cast thing or whatever you call it. I also don’t like the swirly arctic blast thing blocking my view of the character. Cutting dive seems slow, maybe I’m just not used to such fancy animations. I hate the bear so I choose other ultimates even at the cost of dps. I wish it hadn’t been shoehorned into the frost theme. I would prefer a flame staff.

So not my cup of tea, some people really seem to like them, though.

You don't have to use a frost staff on warden. Especially not now. I'm pretty sure it's actual best magicka build uses a lightning staff right now.

I did initially have one, but my understanding was you get a significant damage boost with ice staff. It’s not a big deal though, once I get her through the main quest I probably won’t use her for much other than daily crafting writs. I just have several other classes that I like playing much more.

Thanks for your reply.

You did before they changed piercing cold again. Now the only reason why you'd run an ice staff is for frost reach.

LootAllTheStuff · February 27

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have played every other class quite a bit, but recently created a warden dps when requested by my trials group leads as a “just in case” character. I have leveled her up and slotted the skills listed on the build for the resource I usually use, and I also feel like even in overland that the dps just isn’t as good. She’s running good sets too. When I play her, she feels kind of like my DK PvP character, she has a lot of buffs and it is sort of like a dance to get all those going before switching to the damage bar. That may be just because I usually run around on my stamblade which essentially has no buffs.

I guess my biggest hang up with her is shalks. I just don’t like that skill with the double cast thing or whatever you call it. I also don’t like the swirly arctic blast thing blocking my view of the character. Cutting dive seems slow, maybe I’m just not used to such fancy animations. I hate the bear so I choose other ultimates even at the cost of dps. I wish it hadn’t been shoehorned into the frost theme. I would prefer a flame staff.

So not my cup of tea, some people really seem to like them, though.

You don't have to use a frost staff on warden. Especially not now. I'm pretty sure it's actual best magicka build uses a lightning staff right now.

My understanding is that frost staff is preferred if you're running a tank build, because paired with the right skill it gives you a ranged taunt with immobilize. It also fits better thematically, but it's not necessary if you don't need/want the taunt.

davidtk · February 27

said no one ever wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Warden is the only class I don't have. I always see them being tanks and healers, neither of which appeals to me. I also don't want a huge bear in my way all the time.

well at least the bear isnt flapping in your face. but yeah pets are obtrusive a lot when playing 1st person.

At least flappy bird didn't much block doors and daily craft deliver crates as wardens bears did until ZoS changed it (thank you).
God I hated all wardens who had bear on all the time and they stand near crates or bank door. I was wondering if they were doing it on purpose...

But I really want to find some nice working good PvP warden build...