Nocturnal deserves a rework?

FabresFour

(Summerset Spoilers) You know, we're talking about one of the Daedric Princes with the most fans in the TES community, and her appearance in Summerset is, at the very least... weak? I mean, she's just a generic NPC wearing Nocturnal's clothes. With far fewer tools than Zenimax, I managed to create a Nocturnal that I think looks more like the one from Skyrim (except I gave her purple eyes and made her chest smaller lol).

ESO:


My Nocturnal:


Skyrim:



I find it funny that Mephala got more visual focus than Nocturnal (the true villain). I think it would be really cool if they reworked her design for that questline appearance. I think the ideal approach would be to create a unique hood with hair for her, similar to Ithelia's hood, to make Nocturnal resemble her statue.

Something like that:

Hapexamendios

Before she gets any rework I'd like to see some content with Sanguine. There hasn't been much.

FabresFour

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Before she gets any rework I'd like to see some content with Sanguine. There hasn't been much.

It's not like both things couldn't be done simultaneously

In Sanguine's case, it's a brand-new model, but Nocturnal could be improved just by using assets we already have in the game.

In fact, I remade her as a Redguard since I noticed that's the race they used for her in Skyrim and ESO.

VoxAdActa

These images look awesome! I was skeptical reading the thread title, but your artwork convinced me. I agree. Nocturnal could be so much cooler.

TaSheen

I'm just plain tired of daedric princes.... I really don't care what they look like by now.

Serious. 31 years of daedra. Need something new....

Soarora

Please yes!! Even back in 2019 when I joined, I was shocked by just how bad Nocturnal looks.

Taril

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm just plain tired of daedric princes.... I really don't care what they look like by now.

Serious. 31 years of daedra. Need something new....

Well... They're a major part of the Elder Scrolls franchise and lore.

Literally part of the existence of its universe. Daedra and Aedra were part of its birth. With Aedra creating life and bestowing gifts to it while the Daedra (And Daedric Princes) resented life and did not want to be forced into being part of the universe.

Unless there is a new godloke entity like Anu to create new threats that can be the antagonists... Daedra and the Princes will be staples in the series lore.

Being upset that Daedra are in TES is like being upset that there's Magic in Harry Potter. It's literally the basis of the entire IP.

TaSheen

Taril wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm just plain tired of daedric princes.... I really don't care what they look like by now.

Serious. 31 years of daedra. Need something new....

Well... They're a major part of the Elder Scrolls franchise and lore.

Literally part of the existence of its universe. Daedra and Aedra were part of its birth. With Aedra creating life and bestowing gifts to it while the Daedra (And Daedric Princes) resented life and did not want to be forced into being part of the universe.

Unless there is a new godloke entity like Anu to create new threats that can be the antagonists... Daedra and the Princes will be staples in the series lore.

Being upset that Daedra are in TES is like being upset that there's Magic in Harry Potter. It's literally the basis of the entire IP.

I'm QUITE aware of that. I'm still done with it personally. Time for something new.... which I WISH would be TES VI.... *SIGH*

TheMajority

TaSheen wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm just plain tired of daedric princes.... I really don't care what they look like by now.

Serious. 31 years of daedra. Need something new....

Well... They're a major part of the Elder Scrolls franchise and lore.

Literally part of the existence of its universe. Daedra and Aedra were part of its birth. With Aedra creating life and bestowing gifts to it while the Daedra (And Daedric Princes) resented life and did not want to be forced into being part of the universe.

Unless there is a new godloke entity like Anu to create new threats that can be the antagonists... Daedra and the Princes will be staples in the series lore.

Being upset that Daedra are in TES is like being upset that there's Magic in Harry Potter. It's literally the basis of the entire IP.

I'm QUITE aware of that. I'm still done with it personally. Time for something new.... which I WISH would be TES VI.... *SIGH*

which will have daedric princes in it and does not have anything to do with TESO

NotaDaedraWorshipper

I more wished she looked closer to something like her appearance in the Summerset trailer, and not just some pretty woman in a skimpy dress. Less so one that looks like it came from Wish.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm just plain tired of daedric princes.... I really don't care what they look like by now.

Serious. 31 years of daedra. Need something new....

A bit ironic with a tomeshell profile picture.

Daedra are a big part of Elder Scrolls and should be that. Random new things is much worse. Although I do wish they stopped having the princes as the big bad in almost every plot and appearing all the time. Their portrayal of them and the writing along with the plot's has left much to be desired. They are eldritch godlike beings from beyond time, yet in many of their appearances they don't give that vibe at all and don't even feel in danger. I found Mehrunes Dagon's short talk at the end of City of Ash dungeon give a more intimdating feel than his whole appearance in Blackwood/Deadlands.

In the novel Lord of Souls, two characters, Attrebus Mede and Ezhmaar Sul, gets to meet Malacath, and is described well IMO.

The walls of the prison dissolved, and the thing that had called itself Silhansa was now a hundred feet tall. The hand holding him brought him up to the monstrous face, and the other hand came up, too, presenting Sul, as naked as he and just as captive.

"Malacath," Attrebus gasped.

"So you call me," Malacath said, his voice like beams of wood rending, his breath a foul wind. His eyes seemed empty, but when Attrebus looked into them, crooked things shimmered into his mind and ate his thoughts.

...

The massive lids of Malacath's eyes lowered over his eldritch gaze. His nostrils widened.

"It's still there," the prince's voice ground out, almost below the level of hearing. "This place, this shadow of a garden, this echo of something that once was - you know such phantoms, Sul?"

"Yes," Sul husked.

"You loved a woman, and for her you destroyed your city, your nation, and your people."

"I did not mean to," Sul said. "I only meant to save her life. It was Vuhon - "

"Do not diminish yourself. Do not seek to lessen the beauty of the deed." Malacath opened his eyes and stared at them, and now Attrebus felt as if hot brass was being poured into his skull.

...

Malacath nodded; to Attrebus it seemed a mountain was falling toward him.

"I can take you to Solstheim," the prince said. "Do not disappoint me."

Then both gigantic eyes focused on Attrebus. "And you - if I ever have a use for you, you will know it."

The princes are definitely overused and underplayed and should be used more subtly and with restraint.

Amottica

The official statement from Zenimax years ago, and I believe it was from Matt himself, is that they will not second guess or go back and rework their artistic art.

I do not recall the actual words, but it means that suggesting the rework is dead in the water. That reply was in response to a very long thread on the subject.

FabresFour

Amottica wrote: »

The official statement from Zenimax years ago, and I believe it was from Matt himself, is that they will not second guess or go back and rework their artistic art.

I do not recall the actual words, but it means that suggesting the rework is dead in the water. That reply was in response to a very long thread on the subject.

As far as I knew, this was a direct reference only to things that players acquired, not to the game itself. We see things getting reworked all the time. Even on the PTS, they're changing the appearance of the Flesh Atronachs in an entire public dungeon to match the current Flesh Atronach standard.

I believe this idea of not reworking things refers to what players purchase/acquire, due to the fiasco surrounding the visual change of Redguard armors in 2014/2015, where they basically changed all Redguard armors, even if players already owned them.

When it comes to NPC models, they never said that, as far as I know.

(I mean, we're getting a rework of the base game’s starting islands. They are literally changing textures, adding more vegetation, and even incorporating models from other regions into these areas, as well as using new assets for old things. This is changing the artistic vision of the game that was released in 2014.) And they reworked on Ithelia's face last year .-.

Amottica

FabresFour wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The official statement from Zenimax years ago, and I believe it was from Matt himself, is that they will not second guess or go back and rework their artistic art.

I do not recall the actual words, but it means that suggesting the rework is dead in the water. That reply was in response to a very long thread on the subject.

As far as I knew, this was a direct reference only to things that players acquired, not to the game itself. We see things getting reworked all the time. Even on the PTS, they're changing the appearance of the Flesh Atronachs in an entire public dungeon to match the current Flesh Atronach standard.

I believe this idea of not reworking things refers to what players purchase/acquire, due to the fiasco surrounding the visual change of Redguard armors in 2014/2015, where they basically changed all Redguard armors, even if players already owned them.

When it comes to NPC models, they never said that, as far as I know.

(I mean, we're getting a rework of the base game’s starting islands. They are literally changing textures, adding more vegetation, and even incorporating models from other regions into these areas, as well as using new assets for old things. This is changing the artistic vision of the game that was released in 2014.) And they reworked on Ithelia's face last year .-.

Their comment was directed to the huge response made here in the forums to rework her appearance in the chapter. Below is one of the big threads. I was not able to find the comment Zenimax made on the subject, but if the outcry back then did not sway them, it is doubtful they will care about what we have to say about it now.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415511/dissapointed-that-nocturnal-looks-like-a-budget-cosplayer/p1

I found a thread that references the Zenimax comment, no model change after publishing.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/440787/about-nocturnals-model/p1

Also, @Aliyavana may be able to shed some light on this as they essentialy took the lead asking for a change way back then.

TaSheen

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm just plain tired of daedric princes.... I really don't care what they look like by now.

Serious. 31 years of daedra. Need something new....

A bit ironic with a tomeshell profile picture.

Daedra are a big part of Elder Scrolls and should be that. Random new things is much worse. Although I do wish they stopped having the princes as the big bad in almost every plot and appearing all the time. Their portrayal of them and the writing along with the plot's has left much to be desired. They are eldritch godlike beings from beyond time, yet in many of their appearances they don't give that vibe at all and don't even feel in danger. I found Mehrunes Dagon's short talk at the end of City of Ash dungeon give a more intimdating feel than his whole appearance in Blackwood/Deadlands.

In the novel Lord of Souls, two characters, Attrebus Mede and Ezhmaar Sul, gets to meet Malacath, and is described well IMO.

The walls of the prison dissolved, and the thing that had called itself Silhansa was now a hundred feet tall. The hand holding him brought him up to the monstrous face, and the other hand came up, too, presenting Sul, as naked as he and just as captive.

"Malacath," Attrebus gasped.

"So you call me," Malacath said, his voice like beams of wood rending, his breath a foul wind. His eyes seemed empty, but when Attrebus looked into them, crooked things shimmered into his mind and ate his thoughts.

...

The massive lids of Malacath's eyes lowered over his eldritch gaze. His nostrils widened.

"It's still there," the prince's voice ground out, almost below the level of hearing. "This place, this shadow of a garden, this echo of something that once was - you know such phantoms, Sul?"

"Yes," Sul husked.

"You loved a woman, and for her you destroyed your city, your nation, and your people."

"I did not mean to," Sul said. "I only meant to save her life. It was Vuhon - "

"Do not diminish yourself. Do not seek to lessen the beauty of the deed." Malacath opened his eyes and stared at them, and now Attrebus felt as if hot brass was being poured into his skull.

...

Malacath nodded; to Attrebus it seemed a mountain was falling toward him.

"I can take you to Solstheim," the prince said. "Do not disappoint me."

Then both gigantic eyes focused on Attrebus. "And you - if I ever have a use for you, you will know it."

The princes are definitely overused and underplayed and should be used more subtly and with restraint.

Don't be silly. It's one of the less obnoxious avatars available.

Sheesh.

FabresFour

Amottica wrote: »

FabresFour wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The official statement from Zenimax years ago, and I believe it was from Matt himself, is that they will not second guess or go back and rework their artistic art.

I do not recall the actual words, but it means that suggesting the rework is dead in the water. That reply was in response to a very long thread on the subject.

As far as I knew, this was a direct reference only to things that players acquired, not to the game itself. We see things getting reworked all the time. Even on the PTS, they're changing the appearance of the Flesh Atronachs in an entire public dungeon to match the current Flesh Atronach standard.

I believe this idea of not reworking things refers to what players purchase/acquire, due to the fiasco surrounding the visual change of Redguard armors in 2014/2015, where they basically changed all Redguard armors, even if players already owned them.

When it comes to NPC models, they never said that, as far as I know.

(I mean, we're getting a rework of the base game’s starting islands. They are literally changing textures, adding more vegetation, and even incorporating models from other regions into these areas, as well as using new assets for old things. This is changing the artistic vision of the game that was released in 2014.) And they reworked on Ithelia's face last year .-.

Their comment was directed to the huge response made here in the forums to rework her appearance in the chapter. Below is one of the big threads. I was not able to find the comment Zenimax made on the subject, but if the outcry back then did not sway them, it is doubtful they will care about what we have to say about it now.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415511/dissapointed-that-nocturnal-looks-like-a-budget-cosplayer/p1

I found a thread that references the Zenimax comment, no model change after publishing.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/440787/about-nocturnals-model/p1

Also, @Aliyavana may be able to shed some light on this as they essentialy took the lead asking for a change way back then.

Again, this "no change" policy, as far as I know, applies to things players use—like the 2014 Redguard armor. If it applied to character models, they wouldn’t have changed Ithelia’s face last year. But they did.

If this policy previously extended to in-game character models (not just player-used assets), then they wouldn’t have changed Ithelia or the Flesh Atronachs. And if that’s how the policy worked before, it clearly doesn’t anymore—because, as I said, they have modified existing models.

magnusthorek

I agree and while at it, rework their clothes we occasionally have the opportunity to buy as Outfit. Its plastic-looking fabric is awful!

Remathilis

FabresFour wrote: »

Again, this "no change" policy, as far as I know, applies to things players use—like the 2014 Redguard armor. If it applied to character models, they wouldn’t have changed Ithelia’s face last year. But they did.

I would kill for the original redguard to be redone as an outfit style or ancestor motif.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Soarora wrote: »

Please yes!! Even back in 2019 when I joined, I was shocked by just how bad Nocturnal looks.

Second this, the Daedric Prince of Pixelation needs a rework more than the starting islands do IMO.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

What an arrogant Daedric Prince deserves is not an appearance upgrade...

She deserves to look as ugly as possible.

OgrimTitan

FabresFour wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Before she gets any rework I'd like to see some content with Sanguine. There hasn't been much.

It's not like both things couldn't be done simultaneously

In Sanguine's case, it's a brand-new model, but Nocturnal could be improved just by using assets we already have in the game.

In fact, I remade her as a Redguard since I noticed that's the race they used for her in Skyrim and ESO.

You can try to summon her via console in TES V: Skyrim to see just how much "redguard" she is. Do you know that Hermaeus Mora is technically an orc?

I am so tired of seeing this I took time to find my own screenshots. It's a completely unmodded game.

magnusthorek

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

What an arrogant Daedric Prince deserves is not an appearance upgrade...

She deserves to look as ugly as possible.

Maybe some, but despite the despicable concept of Daedric Princes, Nocturnal is kinda considered the “hot one” by many Skyrim players and deserved more than the ragged plastic-like visual with a voice like of a 40-years aunt who smokes since her fifteens.

OgrimTitan wrote: »

You can try to summon her via console in TES V: Skyrim to see just how much "redguard" she is. Do you know that Hermaeus Mora is technically an orc?

Is there a lore behind this, or it's just because of the race used for the NPCs positioned out of players' cells used as voice anchors on Skyrim's Creation Kit? AFAIK Herma-mora never put more than a few eyes and tentacles out of those portals he comes out.

Eyes and tentacles… Makes us think about the side hobby of his