Wretched Vitality, too strong.

WaywardArgonian

You still compromise something by running it. On a DD you can run it instead of a second damage set, and on a healer you can run it instead of a tank set or a buff set. In groups you are compromising by running a selfish set over a buff set that benefits your group. If anything, complaints about sets like Wretched Vitality or Rallying Cry prove that the word 'OP' is suffering from inflation. It's just a strong sustain set that gives you a lot of flexibility in open world play and it's fine as it is.

Remathilis

I have a perfect solution for this problem: Cyrodiil Vengeance. Now you can quit asking to nerf every single skill and set in the game.

Stamicka

If Wretched Vitality was OP it would be a no brainer option, but it’s not.

When it comes to choosing a 100% uptime backbar set there’s: Rallying Cry, Olorime, Powerful Assault, Essence Thief, Wretched Vitality, and a few others I’m forgetting.

Every one of those sets has a good reason to be used over Wretched Vitality depending on what you’re building for. I mean look at Essence Thief, that’s 10% damage done and over 4k stam every 10 seconds. Rallying Cry gives both damage and crit resist. Buff sets like Olorime are great for group play and personal use. You can always use Bear Haunch and glyphs to get similar levels of recovery that Wretched gives.

It’s a good set, but it can’t really be called “OP” if there’s so many alternatives that are even better in many ways.

Tonturri

Stamicka wrote: »

If Wretched Vitality was OP it would be a no brainer option, but it’s not.

When it comes to choosing a 100% uptime backbar set there’s: Rallying Cry, Olorime, Powerful Assault, Essence Thief, Wretched Vitality, and a few others I’m forgetting.

Every one of those sets has a good reason to be used over Wretched Vitality depending on what you’re building for. I mean look at Essence Thief, that’s 10% damage done and over 4k stam every 10 seconds. Rallying Cry gives both damage and crit resist. Buff sets like Olorime are great for group play and personal use. You can always use Bear Haunch and glyphs to get similar levels of recovery that Wretched gives.

It’s a good set, but it can’t really be called “OP” if there’s so many alternatives that are even better in many ways.

Wretched Vitality is the no-brainer sustain set. It's not really a valid comparison by saying it isn't the 'no brainer' when compared to sets that fill other roles. Obviously if you were after damage and/or durability, you'd choose rallying cry, while essence thief offers more stamina sustain and a damage bonus, but no magicka sustain. There are multiple ways to get any stat, too. That doesn't mean one can't be excessively effective versus another option.

Especially with the relevance of hybridization these days, wretched vitality is ridiculously good in the role it fills and to my knowledge, there isn't anything that even comes close to competing with it in that space.

Stamicka

Tonturri wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

If Wretched Vitality was OP it would be a no brainer option, but it’s not.

When it comes to choosing a 100% uptime backbar set there’s: Rallying Cry, Olorime, Powerful Assault, Essence Thief, Wretched Vitality, and a few others I’m forgetting.

Every one of those sets has a good reason to be used over Wretched Vitality depending on what you’re building for. I mean look at Essence Thief, that’s 10% damage done and over 4k stam every 10 seconds. Rallying Cry gives both damage and crit resist. Buff sets like Olorime are great for group play and personal use. You can always use Bear Haunch and glyphs to get similar levels of recovery that Wretched gives.

It’s a good set, but it can’t really be called “OP” if there’s so many alternatives that are even better in many ways.

Wretched Vitality is the no-brainer sustain set. It's not really a valid comparison by saying it isn't the 'no brainer' when compared to sets that fill other roles. Obviously if you were after damage and/or durability, you'd choose rallying cry, while essence thief offers more stamina sustain and a damage bonus, but no magicka sustain. There are multiple ways to get any stat, too. That doesn't mean one can't be excessively effective versus another option.

Especially with the relevance of hybridization these days, wretched vitality is ridiculously good in the role it fills and to my knowledge, there isn't anything that even comes close to competing with it in that space.

There are a few sets that come close in terms of raw numbers. Eternal Vigor isn’t super far off from Wretched, but it would need to be double barred. Bloodthorn if procced on cooldown would also give similar sustain to the 5 piece of Wretched in terms of raw numbers, but when it comes to percent scaling and the fact that it won’t be used on cooldown in practice, it falls behind. Amber plasm definitely falls behind, but that’s a 2016 set that was never properly updated. Roksa the Warped as a 2 piece set is actually a very good competitor to Wretched, it’s just that you would be giving up other monster set options.

So it’s definitely the best sustain set, but one sustain set has to take that spot anyway. Sustain sets as a whole have an opportunity cost as others have mentioned and fall behind other types of sets. Backbarring Rallying Cry and using Bear Haunch would give less sustain than Wretched with Bistat or Tristat food. However, by going with Rallying Cry you could use divines on armor or just benefit from the tankiness of having a bunch of extra crit resist. Overall Wretched falls behind Rallying Cry as a backbar set. If you’re using a class that doesn’t need to use many Magicka skills, Essence thief gives more damage AND more Stamina sustain.

So yea, Wretched Vitality is number 1 in the sustain set category, but sustain sets aren’t really BiS in PvP these days. High sustain also isn’t a big contributor to the tank meta as much as other things. If you played pre Morrowind, sustain was even better and easier than it is now yet time to kill was lower. I also want to add that Lich is a sustain set that can be backbarred and it essentially gave Magicka builds unlimited sustain. That set has been in the game for like a decade now. It was definitely good back in the day, but never problematic. If you want to wage war against a set, don’t pick a sustain set cause there’s MUCH worse things out there.

Vulkunne

Wretched requires a certain way of playing the game to make the most of the set. I'd be careful nerfing it because making any changes to the set -now- will mess up the way those players play the game. That said I use Wretched on some characters but certainly not every character.

And yeah, I do love me some Amber Plasm. Not too much fun farming it though.

ketsparrowhawk

pecheckler wrote: »

Don't nerf it. Buff twenty or so other sets instead.

Would hate to work for you lol. One set overperforms so they should rebalance the whole game?

ketsparrowhawk

Never understood the "never nerf" mentality. Things are too strong sometimes and need to be nerfed.

Iriidius

Wretched Vitality is not needed/used that much when most players get all recovery they need from orzagas smoked bear haunch/juwels of misrule.
If you nerf it players will just not wear sustain sets at all like most already do.

Most of the newer regen sets suffer from giving hp regen also like it having same value as stam/mag when it has clearly not and was only meta in 2020 before it got cut in half by battlespirit because sets like eternal vigor, beekeeper, endurance or alessia gave you 3 hp regen for 1 magrec/stamrec or 1 spell/wpn dmg.
Roksa and old growth brewer would be as strong wretched vitality if they gave 50% more stam/mag instead of hp recovery. Older sets are often just outdated. Eternal Vigor was stronger then wretched and Essence thief is better in duell.

Joy_Division

It's the easiest way to get sustain.

It's not the most optimal.

That's exactly how it should be.

Elrond87

are there not sets or poisons that counter sustain by draining it faster?

MATH_COW

No need to nerf it, the set is fine.
But buff the other sustain related set to make them a choice instead of Wretched Vitality.
It's always better to not ruin set that are "too good" and just make "bad" sets better to compete with the good one.

Also fix Roksa which still bug a lot in pvp...

Ezhh

Why can't we just, you know, buff some of the other sets instead?

Wretched is fine. The problem is that other sustain sets need to be improved.

Major_Mangle

Ezhh wrote: »

Why can't we just, you know, buff some of the other sets instead?

Wretched is fine. The problem is that other sustain sets need to be improved.

Because just buffing things lead to unhealthy powercreep (especially stat powercreep), which is currently one of the biggest balance issues this game has.

olsborg

MATH_COW wrote: »

Also fix Roksa which still bug a lot in pvp...

Whats this bug then? @MATH_COW

MATH_COW

olsborg wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Also fix Roksa which still bug a lot in pvp...

Whats this bug then? @MATH_COW

In PvP zone, when you rez with Roksa the stacking of the effect can stop working which just make it impossible to use for real in PvP zone.
To fix it you need to unslot and slot again which is most of the time impossible (stuck in fight in cyrodiil or never able to be far enough in battleground to leave fight)

That's a know bug already communicated to them on the bug section of the forum by some users that also affect Death Dealer's Fete and Saint & Seducer mythics.

Jierdanit

olsborg wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Also fix Roksa which still bug a lot in pvp...

Whats this bug then? MATH_COW

If you die and don't get out of combat during the respawn Roksa stops stacking.
So especially in BGs its super easy to just lose all the value from the set.

Same bug happens with Death Dealers Fete, Saint and Seducer and probably every other set that has a "while in combat" requirement.

nadrokal

olsborg wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

The set itself is fine and rather balanced.

Not if you look at other sets with similar MO, it far outshines any other set out there built for sustain rendering the other 99% sustain sets completely weak.

Estin wrote: »

There isn't a reason to nerf it.

For that very reason above. Also im not saying "nerf it" im saying, how about not having one set outshine all other sets.

Oh come on. By saying "how about not having one set outshine all other sets" you very much know what the ESO dev team's response would be. How many times have they buffed all of the sets that have a similar effect? We all know what their response would be if they reacted to this request.