There is absolutely nothing positive to be said about the vengeance mode

n333rs

The only hope is that it never reaches the live servers as the mode is the single most anti-fun, anti-enjoyment thing in existence and hopefully they the developers never attempt to reuse anything from the mode for the good of the game

Stridig

It's not a "mode". It's a test for a short period of time.

Maitsukas

What do you think is the more important goal for the Vengeance Campaign?

Is it gathering data to hopefully improve Cyrodiil performance in the future? Or balancing the Classes and Skills that you aren't happy with?

And it is only going to last 1 week when this Campaign goes live in March, it isn't going to remove Blackreach, Gray Host, Ravenwatch and Icereach from the Campaign list forever.

sarahthes

n333rs wrote: »

The only hope is that it never reaches the live servers as the mode is the single most anti-fun, anti-enjoyment thing in existence and hopefully they the developers never attempt to reuse anything from the mode for the good of the game

So you don't want them to try to figure out how deep the code deficit that makes cyrodiil lag actually is?

Major_Mangle

Stridig wrote: »

It's not a "mode". It's a test for a short period of time.

The EXACT same thing was said a few years back when no proc was only " a test for a short period of time" and see where that lead....

Similar patterns are now seen with a small but extremely vocal minority praising these tests and spewing borderline propaganda how "good and refreshing" theae tests are. It's the same all over again and I don't see anything good come out of this.

sarahthes wrote: »

n333rs wrote: »

The only hope is that it never reaches the live servers as the mode is the single most anti-fun, anti-enjoyment thing in existence and hopefully they the developers never attempt to reuse anything from the mode for the good of the game

So you don't want them to try to figure out how deep the code deficit that makes cyrodiil lag actually is?

If the price is an unrecognisable stripped down preset PvP then I'd rather have some manageable lag during primetime Cyrodiil (Cyrodiil performance for the last few months has unironically not been that bad). After the no proc fiasco I've very little faith/trust in these kind of tests.

NoSoup

n333rs wrote: »

The only hope is that it never reaches the live servers as the mode is the single most anti-fun, anti-enjoyment thing in existence and hopefully they the developers never attempt to reuse anything from the mode for the good of the game

Have you actually been into the PTS and tested/played it?

Desiato

My understanding is that the current implementation on PTS and what we will see in U45 is part of a performance test.

It's to see if the concept of simplified abilities allows there to be large scale combat in Cyrodiil without the performance issues that have plagued Cyrodiil for more than 10 years.

The test will inform them if the concept is viable and better understand how to better implement vengeance abilities. It's not representative of what the final product would look like.

We should be happy that they're trying! This is something they should have tested long ago. The bottom line is that they developed gameplay their Cyrodiil server tech can't handle. Even 12 player PVE instances can struggle! They are either unwilling or unable to substantially improve the server tech, so this is the solution available to us.

If the test is successful and the concept eventually is expanded upon, I doubt it will be the only way to play in Cyrodiil.

Tommy_The_Gun

Two major positives for me is lack of ball groups (or at the very least killable ball groups) and of course - no proc sets, no annoying pulls & AOEs. For that alone it will be worth to play it.

ArchMikem

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Two major positives for me is lack of ball groups (or at the very least killable ball groups) and of course - no proc sets, no annoying pulls & AOEs. For that alone it will be worth to play it.

I'm looking forward to trying it on Live. I struggled me way up to 1 Star General on my Main suffering proc sets and ball groups and unkillable tanks etc. Gonna be Hella refreshing when everyone is on equal footing with the same skill set.

Gilvoth

well i Love it, i hope it turns into something alot longer then one week.

Mathius_Mordred

If this means no ball groups and no bombers I'll be well happy!

Arunei

Was no proc advertised as being a test thing that would be removed after the test, or a new campaign they would be tweaking and making changes to as time went on? Asking because I genuinely don't know, I don't PvP.

Because if it wasn't, then that's not the same thing as a test that's being explicitly called a test that will only last for one week.

Maitsukas

Arunei wrote: »

Was no proc advertised as being a test thing that would be removed after the test, or a new campaign they would be tweaking and making changes to as time went on? Asking because I genuinely don't know, I don't PvP.

Because if it wasn't, then that's not the same thing as a test that's being explicitly called a test that will only last for one week.

All details on what is enabled or disabled is in the PTS patch notes.

karthrag_inak

At this point, after it has been stated so many times that this is a test only, khajiit thinks that anyone who posts as if this mode is an intended long term game mode should be considered trolling.

Sotha_Sil

I would gladly play a Cyrodiil with template presets, fixed skills, fixed items, if it means it has great performance and a highest number of players authorized simultaneously and if it allows ZOS to introduce new Cyrodiil stuff we have been waiting for a decade.

Tranquilizer

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

I would gladly play a Cyrodiil with template presets, fixed skills, fixed items, if it means it has great performance and a highest number of players authorized simultaneously and if it allows ZOS to introduce new Cyrodiil stuff we have been waiting for a decade.

I would second that. I like Cyrodiil for its large scale pvp with sieging and epic battles. If ZOS has to change class setup/gear to achieve this I'd happily adapt to the changes.

SaffronCitrusflower

This current iteration will not work for me, that's for sure.

I'm not sure why ZOS is putting time into developing a new system as opposed to fixing the system they already have in the first place. That tells me this new system will be the future of Cyrodiil like it or not.

sarahthes

Arunei wrote: »

Was no proc advertised as being a test thing that would be removed after the test, or a new campaign they would be tweaking and making changes to as time went on? Asking because I genuinely don't know, I don't PvP.

Because if it wasn't, then that's not the same thing as a test that's being explicitly called a test that will only last for one week.

It was a test that a certain faction of people begged them to keep. They listened to some of their customers. Those said people got tired of it after a while and went back to the other campaigns, however.

HatchetHaro

I really want to see them balance the Vengeance mode to at least be fun before they launch it. I get that their goal for stripping everything down is solely to increase server performance, and the weeklong test is only in service of that goal.

However, since PvP balance has been complained about for so many years and with so many requests for separate PvP and PvE balance, at least to me, this feels like an actual interesting direction they should be taking for PvP in terms of balancing. Yes, in its current state it's not ideal, but there's so much potential in stripping down abilities and sets and stats and letting people duke it out with player skill and strategy as the only determining factors in a fight.

It's like using the wrong solution to arrive at the correct answer.

Besides, balancing this is just changing some numbers based on player feedback from the PTS. There's like less than a quarter of the skills on live they need to work with at max, with no need to factor in stats or sets. Overpowered class? Tune down the numbers. Underperforming class? Increase the numbers.

Also, if people hop on and find it unbalanced and unfun, they wouldn't continue playing Vengeance for the week; that's less data they have to work with, and for what is supposed to be a stress test of the PvP instances, they'd want as many players as possible participating in it.

Icy_Waffles

It’s awesome. But in ALPHA.

They want to see how the game engine works with the change, then focus on balancing. I think it’s going to be great and very needed.

Separate pvp and pve!

Arunei

sarahthes wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Was no proc advertised as being a test thing that would be removed after the test, or a new campaign they would be tweaking and making changes to as time went on? Asking because I genuinely don't know, I don't PvP.

Because if it wasn't, then that's not the same thing as a test that's being explicitly called a test that will only last for one week.

It was a test that a certain faction of people begged them to keep. They listened to some of their customers. Those said people got tired of it after a while and went back to the other campaigns, however.

So they meant to remove it from the campaign it was introduced to, but they kept it after people asked for it? That's good to know then.

sarahthes

Arunei wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Was no proc advertised as being a test thing that would be removed after the test, or a new campaign they would be tweaking and making changes to as time went on? Asking because I genuinely don't know, I don't PvP.

Because if it wasn't, then that's not the same thing as a test that's being explicitly called a test that will only last for one week.

It was a test that a certain faction of people begged them to keep. They listened to some of their customers. Those said people got tired of it after a while and went back to the other campaigns, however.

So they meant to remove it from the campaign it was introduced to, but they kept it after people asked for it? That's good to know then.

Yes, there was a sizeable group of people. I didn't PvP much back then but my friend group at the time was a PvP streamer and his friends and I remember how excited they were about the change.

And then they quit and went to play New World.

Estin

They said on the newest stream that this is not even final. If it's a success, that doesn't mean that's what we'll be getting. They mentioned they would reenable things. They mentioned gear in that statement as well. This test is purely for performance and they will not move forward with it if it's a failure or if everyone hates the idea.

If you're unwilling to participate with an intentionally basic test meant to collect performance data just because you don't like how basic it is in its current form, I hope you are happy with the current state cyrodiil and PvP in general is because it will stay that way if ZOS can't get the data they need due to everyone avoiding it over insignificant issues like class balance and build variety in an intentionally basic test.

coop500

This test is amazing and I have no idea why people are complaining so badly.

Firstly, it's a TEST, not a final anything. Secondly, it's also separating PVP from PVE, which we need DESPERATELY, and third, it's trying to find solutions to performance issues. Which is another thing players have been pleading about for ages.

They are finally doing something about these issues! Please, play the mode and give constructive feedback so we can help them with this endeavor. They didn't have to try anything, hell they could have just closed down Cryodiil. But they're not, they're trying, so it's up to us to help them.

LatentBuzzard

coop500 wrote: »

Firstly, it's a TEST, not a final anything. Secondly, it's also separating PVP from PVE, which we need DESPERATELY

If it's just a test to collect data that's only going to be around for a short period of time, then that means that there's no intention to seperate PvP and PvE as those changes will be going away when the test finishes.

sarahthes

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Firstly, it's a TEST, not a final anything. Secondly, it's also separating PVP from PVE, which we need DESPERATELY

If it's just a test to collect data that's only going to be around for a short period of time, then that means that there's no intention to seperate PvP and PvE as those changes will be going away when the test finishes.

They did speak to that. Rich Lambert reiterated that ESO is one whole game in the livestream today. I think if there is any separation it will be as minimal as possible.

katanagirl1

I hope when this comes to consoles that there will be enough players to even test it. Gray Host DC faction is typically only 2 bars early prime time so it’s not very fun to play against 6 bars. If some move to another campaign it could be even more sparse in both campaigns. I hope the news about it brings old players back for this.

Dragonnord

n333rs wrote: »

The only hope is that it never reaches the live servers as the mode is the single most anti-fun, anti-enjoyment thing in existence and hopefully they the developers never attempt to reuse anything from the mode for the good of the game

Mode? It's a TEST of the server performance.
 

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Distilling skills down to the lowest common denominator would decrease player retention. So there's no way that's going to happen. Maybe a few abilities will get tweaks for performance reasons, but that's it. Players want a power fantasy and the Vengeance campaign doesn't give that.

xylena_lazarow

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Distilling skills down to the lowest common denominator would decrease player retention. So there's no way that's going to happen. Maybe a few abilities will get tweaks for performance reasons, but that's it. Players want a power fantasy and the Vengeance campaign doesn't give that.

Maybe it can pull in the ultra casual crowd that doesn't really "do" the combat system. And out of those players, some of them will enjoy it enough to move up to full power Cyro (if it still exists). That's me trying to be optimistic atm.

Desiato

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Distilling skills down to the lowest common denominator would decrease player retention. So there's no way that's going to happen. Maybe a few abilities will get tweaks for performance reasons, but that's it. Players want a power fantasy and the Vengeance campaign doesn't give that.

Existing ESO PVP players maybe, but that's an extremely niche audience.

Consider that players estimate the current Cyrodiil pop cap to be between 180-300 players and PC/NA can only poplock a single server during prime time. It is unequivocally an extremely unpopular game mode.

ZOS would be making a mistake to try to cater to an audience I would characterize as mostly pug stompers, troll tanks and PVE transmute farmers. They should look outside of ESO for attributes that result in successful PVP games.

In other PVP games, players tend to enjoy good competition and good server performance, not "power fantasies".

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I hope when this comes to consoles that there will be enough players to even test it. Gray Host DC faction is typically only 2 bars early prime time so it’s not very fun to play against 6 bars. If some move to another campaign it could be even more sparse in both campaigns. I hope the news about it brings old players back for this.

I love Cyrodiil and have spent a lot of time there over the years, but its current state is completely repulsive to me. I really have nothing good to say about it. I can't speak for anyone else, but I definitely plan on testing it, even if it's not my cup of tea to start.