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Necromancer's class fantasy falls short
Tonturri
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Context
This is partially - but far from exclusively, or even majorly - from a PvP standpoint. I find necromancer’s shortcomings are most visible in PvP as that’s when the abilities of a class and how it measures up against the others is most visible. There are certain issues, imo, that wouldn’t otherwise be visible in stuff like end game PvE where it’s easier to hit stuff. Still, this is primarily aimed at class fantasy and making necro ‘feel like necro’ more, as I currently feel there are a lot of small issues adding up that diminishes my enjoyment of the class. I doubt a full class rework is on the table, so I tried to think more about stuff that could be done the easiest for maximum impact.
Thoughts
I feel necromancer is a class that started out with a solid mechanic but never really integrated that class mechanic as deep as it needed to be across the 3 skill lines it has. Corpse generation and consumption mechanics are there, but feel limited in use and availability, particularly with the skill Bitter Harvest. Bitter Harvest is quite strong, but it feels like the corpse mechanic crutches on it to take care of ‘leftovers’ that should have been used up by other skills.
One of my necros is a stam/mag hybrid, resto/DW, running blighted blastbones and intensive mender. I always have a bunch of leftover corpses whenever I run without Bitter Harvest because not enough skills consume them.
Additionally, necromancer’s skill density feels weak compared to other classes, and finding ways to fit the things I want on my bars is a struggle. The class has options, but a lot of them turn out lackluster. It feels like I’m always missing something in my loadout…Which would actually be perfectly fine if every other class was designed this way, as I’m very enthusiastic about pros/cons class design, but that isn’t the case.
Some skills have good foundations, but feel diminished or lackluster in execution, such as Expunge or Resistant Flesh. On paper those two skills seem great (and I still think they’re both cool), but don’t really bring enough to the table. Skills having drawbacks are fine, but those that have those drawbacks don’t really make up for them, resulting in them just being plain ‘ol weaker, instead of creating a more interesting interaction between a very strong skill that comes with a drawback.
Overall, these things result in a class that is supposed to be durable with an array of thematic options to fight opponents and stay upright despite lacking mobility, but in practice doesn’t really fulfill many aspects of the class fantasy, or does so halfheartedly. Necro is clearly supposed to be durable, but its own heal makes it squishier and the purge skill hurts it without providing enough benefit. The class is, based on the existence of certain passives, supposed to have strong ‘rot’ potential but doesn’t actually have many usable DoTs or HoTs. I’m down with the idea of a class lacking in self buffs but having a much wider array of debilitating debuffs, but necro doesn’t really have that either…That is, it kind of has the debuffs, but they’re spread out and too slow to hit anyone (Grave Grasp) consistently.
General ideas
Armor buff skill: Armor per summon, or give another summon skill the armor buff instead. This could help fit more stuff on our bars while still letting people use Bone Armor for more durability. This skill also have a corpse gen issue where it lasts for 20-30 seconds and generates a corpse on expiration, and that's...really long and not all that great. Generating a corpse every 5-10 seconds when struck would be lovely.
Shocking Siphon and Restoring Tether: Nice skills with nice buffs, but it'd be great to let us attach the DoT/HoT to an enemy/ally as an option. The DoT doesn't feel great in PvP because everyone is so fast (and necro can be so, so slow). The HoT is easier to manage, imo, but could still use the same love.
Render Flesh: Resistant Flesh could have a corpse-consume mechanic to increase the effectiveness and duration of the armor buff. I'd love to see this skill enable light/medium armor using necromancers to still have decent durability when not taking mobility. Life Amid Death has a morph that increases the duration of the ground HoT per corpse consumed, up to five, and I'd love to see this mechanic elsewhere, such as letting Blood Sacrifice heal an extra target per corpse instead of being limited to just one.
Bone Totem: I think this is a low hanging fruit that'd make a small, but valued difference. I like this skill but the 2 sec windup is quite slow. 1 second would be lovely.
Grave Grasp: I'd much rather a larger AoE that pulses the debuffs in that area, once per second, instead of having very small circles extending in a line. Keep it melee-ish if you must but an AoE similar to Time Stop would be cool. The pulsing would also still allow people to try to get out of it.
Renimate: This ult is extremely expensive. It'd be nice if it was at least worth casting without someone dead. It's strong, but I'm not fond of 'things that are only ever useful if something goes very wrong'. A cost reduction and adding some sort of healing absorb to enemies, or a cheat death for allies if it doesn't rez anyone, would be sweet.
Expunge: Hexproof and Expunge and Modify. Some opportunity here for adding more corpse consume mechanics. It can be anything, from a HoT on one morph on cleanse and a DoT on another, to converting debuffs to buffs for one and sending the debuffs to an enemy on another. Also, 2 cleanses feels a little low considering how many effects exist in PvP, though I'm unsure how useful this skill is in PvE. Upping both to 4 would be good.
Bone Goliath: A designated group-support morph (+health and leech on strike?) and a selfish morph would be best, imo. For 250 ultimate is ridiculously expensive - barrier costs the same and has better secondary effects, plus is AoE. At the very least, shave 50 ult off of this.
Boneyard: I crave making one of these morphs a sticky DoT. Necromancer, for being the rot class, has so few sticky DoTs and damage over time stuff.
Overall, I’d like to see a lot of necromancer skills tweaked slightly, both for effectiveness and QoL. I don’t think vast, sweeping and drastic changes are needed. I think the class would be in a good spot if a lot of ‘meh’ stuff was just taken care of. For example, maybe sustain wouldn’t be as awful if it was easier to run Restoring Tether and Shocking Siphon by making the latter enemy-targeted and the former base skill have a PBAoE. Both skills consume corpses but no resources. Changing Death Gleaning to be more useful in combat when you’re fighting opponents who don’t die often, or there’s just one them (PvE boss fights, PvP in general), would also alleviate sustain-pain. Speaking from personal experience, I’ve run a setup with Telvanni Efficiency and Wretched Vitality plus Mortal Coil (+170 regen) and Mystic Siphon (+150 regen) and it can still feel bad (not to mention neutering damage anyway, but still).
Tweaking skills like Resistant Flesh to consume corpses for a stronger effect would enable more build choices if the armor buff became longer lasting, stronger, and more reliable outside of spamming the skill. It’d be nice to have light armor more of an option, and for heavy armor necros to have more power budget available that’d let them put resources elsewhere, or just get tanky enough to stand more without mobility.
Adding more corpse-consume mechanics to skills, while fixing any minor issues with the base skills, would go a long way towards providing variety in how a necromancer wasn’t to use the corpse resources without making them OP and solidifying the class fantasy.
Ideally, I’d really hope to see a state of necro where base class skills are slightly buffed/QoL’d to bring them up to snuff with other class skills, then an array of corpse consumption options so the necro has to pick and plan how they want to spend that extra resource and how they want to generate the corpses. On the flip side, I’d never want to see a state of necro where every skill is consistently corpse-empowered, and I know getting everything I ask for would probably be too much. Still, overall, I hope necro gets:
More ways to consume corpses, and some adjustments to corpse generation so there are options for it (our armor skill lasts 20-30 seconds and generates a corpse on expiration, which is lackluster)
A way to get more durability and sustain so that necro has a bit of an easier time standing on its own without mobility
Skills to be brought in line with the design other classes seem to get, making them more reliable and consistent to use/land
Using all of the above to make necromancer feel more like a necromancer - summons, durability, debuffs, etc.
TLDR: Necromancer class fantasy feels very lacking. I had a whole skill-by-skill and passive-by-passive writeup, but I couldn't figure out how to add collapsable sections to a forum post, so...Here's the 'shorter' version with just a few ideas. Ofc I'd also like to see, for example, passives like Death Gleaning get some love, as it really only feels applicable in open world clearing. Currently necro just feels like an ult gen bot and forced to use Bitter Harvest.
This is partially - but far from exclusively, or even majorly - from a PvP standpoint. I find necromancer’s shortcomings are most visible in PvP as that’s when the abilities of a class and how it measures up against the others is most visible. There are certain issues, imo, that wouldn’t otherwise be visible in stuff like end game PvE where it’s easier to hit stuff. Still, this is primarily aimed at class fantasy and making necro ‘feel like necro’ more, as I currently feel there are a lot of small issues adding up that diminishes my enjoyment of the class. I doubt a full class rework is on the table, so I tried to think more about stuff that could be done the easiest for maximum impact.
Thoughts
I feel necromancer is a class that started out with a solid mechanic but never really integrated that class mechanic as deep as it needed to be across the 3 skill lines it has. Corpse generation and consumption mechanics are there, but feel limited in use and availability, particularly with the skill Bitter Harvest. Bitter Harvest is quite strong, but it feels like the corpse mechanic crutches on it to take care of ‘leftovers’ that should have been used up by other skills.
One of my necros is a stam/mag hybrid, resto/DW, running blighted blastbones and intensive mender. I always have a bunch of leftover corpses whenever I run without Bitter Harvest because not enough skills consume them.
Additionally, necromancer’s skill density feels weak compared to other classes, and finding ways to fit the things I want on my bars is a struggle. The class has options, but a lot of them turn out lackluster. It feels like I’m always missing something in my loadout…Which would actually be perfectly fine if every other class was designed this way, as I’m very enthusiastic about pros/cons class design, but that isn’t the case.
Some skills have good foundations, but feel diminished or lackluster in execution, such as Expunge or Resistant Flesh. On paper those two skills seem great (and I still think they’re both cool), but don’t really bring enough to the table. Skills having drawbacks are fine, but those that have those drawbacks don’t really make up for them, resulting in them just being plain ‘ol weaker, instead of creating a more interesting interaction between a very strong skill that comes with a drawback.
Overall, these things result in a class that is supposed to be durable with an array of thematic options to fight opponents and stay upright despite lacking mobility, but in practice doesn’t really fulfill many aspects of the class fantasy, or does so halfheartedly. Necro is clearly supposed to be durable, but its own heal makes it squishier and the purge skill hurts it without providing enough benefit. The class is, based on the existence of certain passives, supposed to have strong ‘rot’ potential but doesn’t actually have many usable DoTs or HoTs. I’m down with the idea of a class lacking in self buffs but having a much wider array of debilitating debuffs, but necro doesn’t really have that either…That is, it kind of has the debuffs, but they’re spread out and too slow to hit anyone (Grave Grasp) consistently.
General ideas
Armor buff skill: Armor per summon, or give another summon skill the armor buff instead. This could help fit more stuff on our bars while still letting people use Bone Armor for more durability. This skill also have a corpse gen issue where it lasts for 20-30 seconds and generates a corpse on expiration, and that's...really long and not all that great. Generating a corpse every 5-10 seconds when struck would be lovely.
Shocking Siphon and Restoring Tether: Nice skills with nice buffs, but it'd be great to let us attach the DoT/HoT to an enemy/ally as an option. The DoT doesn't feel great in PvP because everyone is so fast (and necro can be so, so slow). The HoT is easier to manage, imo, but could still use the same love.
Render Flesh: Resistant Flesh could have a corpse-consume mechanic to increase the effectiveness and duration of the armor buff. I'd love to see this skill enable light/medium armor using necromancers to still have decent durability when not taking mobility. Life Amid Death has a morph that increases the duration of the ground HoT per corpse consumed, up to five, and I'd love to see this mechanic elsewhere, such as letting Blood Sacrifice heal an extra target per corpse instead of being limited to just one.
Bone Totem: I think this is a low hanging fruit that'd make a small, but valued difference. I like this skill but the 2 sec windup is quite slow. 1 second would be lovely.
Grave Grasp: I'd much rather a larger AoE that pulses the debuffs in that area, once per second, instead of having very small circles extending in a line. Keep it melee-ish if you must but an AoE similar to Time Stop would be cool. The pulsing would also still allow people to try to get out of it.
Renimate: This ult is extremely expensive. It'd be nice if it was at least worth casting without someone dead. It's strong, but I'm not fond of 'things that are only ever useful if something goes very wrong'. A cost reduction and adding some sort of healing absorb to enemies, or a cheat death for allies if it doesn't rez anyone, would be sweet.
Expunge: Hexproof and Expunge and Modify. Some opportunity here for adding more corpse consume mechanics. It can be anything, from a HoT on one morph on cleanse and a DoT on another, to converting debuffs to buffs for one and sending the debuffs to an enemy on another. Also, 2 cleanses feels a little low considering how many effects exist in PvP, though I'm unsure how useful this skill is in PvE. Upping both to 4 would be good.
Bone Goliath: A designated group-support morph (+health and leech on strike?) and a selfish morph would be best, imo. For 250 ultimate is ridiculously expensive - barrier costs the same and has better secondary effects, plus is AoE. At the very least, shave 50 ult off of this.
Boneyard: I crave making one of these morphs a sticky DoT. Necromancer, for being the rot class, has so few sticky DoTs and damage over time stuff.
Overall, I’d like to see a lot of necromancer skills tweaked slightly, both for effectiveness and QoL. I don’t think vast, sweeping and drastic changes are needed. I think the class would be in a good spot if a lot of ‘meh’ stuff was just taken care of. For example, maybe sustain wouldn’t be as awful if it was easier to run Restoring Tether and Shocking Siphon by making the latter enemy-targeted and the former base skill have a PBAoE. Both skills consume corpses but no resources. Changing Death Gleaning to be more useful in combat when you’re fighting opponents who don’t die often, or there’s just one them (PvE boss fights, PvP in general), would also alleviate sustain-pain. Speaking from personal experience, I’ve run a setup with Telvanni Efficiency and Wretched Vitality plus Mortal Coil (+170 regen) and Mystic Siphon (+150 regen) and it can still feel bad (not to mention neutering damage anyway, but still).
Tweaking skills like Resistant Flesh to consume corpses for a stronger effect would enable more build choices if the armor buff became longer lasting, stronger, and more reliable outside of spamming the skill. It’d be nice to have light armor more of an option, and for heavy armor necros to have more power budget available that’d let them put resources elsewhere, or just get tanky enough to stand more without mobility.
Adding more corpse-consume mechanics to skills, while fixing any minor issues with the base skills, would go a long way towards providing variety in how a necromancer wasn’t to use the corpse resources without making them OP and solidifying the class fantasy.
Ideally, I’d really hope to see a state of necro where base class skills are slightly buffed/QoL’d to bring them up to snuff with other class skills, then an array of corpse consumption options so the necro has to pick and plan how they want to spend that extra resource and how they want to generate the corpses. On the flip side, I’d never want to see a state of necro where every skill is consistently corpse-empowered, and I know getting everything I ask for would probably be too much. Still, overall, I hope necro gets:
More ways to consume corpses, and some adjustments to corpse generation so there are options for it (our armor skill lasts 20-30 seconds and generates a corpse on expiration, which is lackluster)
A way to get more durability and sustain so that necro has a bit of an easier time standing on its own without mobility
Skills to be brought in line with the design other classes seem to get, making them more reliable and consistent to use/land
Using all of the above to make necromancer feel more like a necromancer - summons, durability, debuffs, etc.
TLDR: Necromancer class fantasy feels very lacking. I had a whole skill-by-skill and passive-by-passive writeup, but I couldn't figure out how to add collapsable sections to a forum post, so...Here's the 'shorter' version with just a few ideas. Ofc I'd also like to see, for example, passives like Death Gleaning get some love, as it really only feels applicable in open world clearing. Currently necro just feels like an ult gen bot and forced to use Bitter Harvest.
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭personally speaking necromancer in this game is about the furthest possible away from what i think of as an "ideal necromancer" lol
in my mind necromancer is about "army of the undead" and in here necromancer has 3 pitiful summon skills that arent out all the time
the lich transformation in the archive feels more like a necromancer than the actual necromancer class does lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities8 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭
Well, yeah. I don't disagree. But the game has limits (like bar space). I could go for just redesigning the visuals of some skills to make them a summon of some sort, but I doubt that'll happen, unfortunately.Necrotech_Master wrote: »personally speaking necromancer in this game is about the furthest possible away from what i think of as an "ideal necromancer" lol
in my mind necromancer is about "army of the undead" and in here necromancer has 3 pitiful summon skills that arent out all the time
the lich transformation in the archive feels more like a necromancer than the actual necromancer class does lol
I thoroughly enjoyed City of Heroes' necromancer, which let you have a bunch of summons going that you'd have to buff up and stuff. It'd be cool to see a redesign where almost everything is a summon, and the major/minor/other buffs you choose are what'll end up applied to the summons, changing their effectiveness at different things and behavior, but I'm not holding my breath.
I also happen to enjoy debuff/rot archetypes, but I know a lot of folks see 'necro' and really want that undead army, even if I'm fine with just a few. Wish we could have both.Edited by Tonturri on January 10, 2025 6:13PM1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, yeah. I don't disagree. But the game has limits (like bar space). I could go for just redesigning the visuals of some skills to make them a summon of some sort, but I doubt that'll happen, unfortunately.Necrotech_Master wrote: »personally speaking necromancer in this game is about the furthest possible away from what i think of as an "ideal necromancer" lol
in my mind necromancer is about "army of the undead" and in here necromancer has 3 pitiful summon skills that arent out all the time
the lich transformation in the archive feels more like a necromancer than the actual necromancer class does lol
I thoroughly enjoyed City of Heroes' necromancer, which let you have a bunch of summons going that you'd have to buff up and stuff. It'd be cool to see a redesign where almost everything is a summon, and the major/minor/other buffs you choose are what'll end up applied to the summons, changing their effectiveness at different things and behavior, but I'm not holding my breath.
I also happen to enjoy debuff/rot archetypes, but I know a lot of folks see 'necro' and really want that undead army, even if I'm fine with just a few. Wish we could have both.
i would be more OK with limited summons if the summons were you know, actually good and not temporary
like the skeletal mage/archer is pure garbage, blastbones is OK but only because it hits hard, though its still kind of kludgy for the role its supposed to do, the healing wraith is OK but wish it did a little bit more than just a straight heal (and also if it was not a temporary summon )
the way necromancer is built in this game its very hard to play it as anything other than a tank or healer as most of the offensive skills are extremely underpowered
like i get that its supposed to have a focus on dots, but the class has no dots, theres virtually no synergy within itself for dps
edit to add: and yes mastermind is my favorite class in city of heroes too lolEdited by Necrotech_Master on January 10, 2025 6:20PMplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities3 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »
Well, yeah. I don't disagree. But the game has limits (like bar space). I could go for just redesigning the visuals of some skills to make them a summon of some sort, but I doubt that'll happen, unfortunately.Necrotech_Master wrote: »personally speaking necromancer in this game is about the furthest possible away from what i think of as an "ideal necromancer" lol
in my mind necromancer is about "army of the undead" and in here necromancer has 3 pitiful summon skills that arent out all the time
the lich transformation in the archive feels more like a necromancer than the actual necromancer class does lol
I thoroughly enjoyed City of Heroes' necromancer, which let you have a bunch of summons going that you'd have to buff up and stuff. It'd be cool to see a redesign where almost everything is a summon, and the major/minor/other buffs you choose are what'll end up applied to the summons, changing their effectiveness at different things and behavior, but I'm not holding my breath.
I also happen to enjoy debuff/rot archetypes, but I know a lot of folks see 'necro' and really want that undead army, even if I'm fine with just a few. Wish we could have both.
i would be more OK with limited summons if the summons were you know, actually good and not temporary
like the skeletal mage/archer is pure garbage, blastbones is OK but only because it hits hard, though its still kind of kludgy for the role its supposed to do, the healing wraith is OK but wish it did a little bit more than just a straight heal (and also if it was not a temporary summon )
the way necromancer is built in this game its very hard to play it as anything other than a tank or healer as most of the offensive skills are extremely underpowered
like i get that its supposed to have a focus on dots, but the class has no dots, theres virtually no synergy within itself for dps
edit to add: and yes mastermind is my favorite class in city of heroes too lol
I'm surprised that necro wasn't the first class that could source two permanent melee summons from a single skill-slot.1 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭I'd argue that the biggest hamstring in Necro's design is in fact, the corpse mechanic itself.
From the very get go, there are limited ways to generate corpses. Even more so for non-DPS builds (Which at least have Blastbones and Ghostly Embrace as frequent corpse generators).
These corpse generators are also tied to uptime skills, so Necro's get hit again by the fact that their uptime skills of Skeletal Mage/Archer, Bone Armor and Spirit Mender are all rather short because these need to end to generate corpses (At least Summoner's Armor morph gets up to 30s).
Then of course there are the 2 tethers based around targetting corpses. Making them inconsistent in positioning and availability (Yes, even in PvE. Plenty of bosses move a lot and every time that happens, you need to generate a new corpse and then re-use the ability).
There's a reason why Necro got an uptick in usage recently, which is because of Banner Bearer with Class Mastery will spawn a corpse every 5 seconds, which helps to actually enable corpse usage (And as a result made Corpseburster set actually useful)
Outside of that, Necro's design just has a lack of direction;
- They're not really summoners. Given that they only have temporary summons and even then only 1 does damage and the other does healing (Not really counting Blastbones as that's more just a janky projectile attack)
- They have the onset of having a theme around gaining debuffs and having cleanses to remove them... But lack any proper interactions or support for them.
- Most of their skills are just generic abilities. Flame Skull is just a generic projectile attack. Boneyard is just a ground AoE. Death Scythe is just a cleave. Life Amid Death is just a targeted AoE. Frozen Colossus is just a targeted AoE. Bone Goliath is just a buff. Nothing about them feels "Necromancer" in any way besides "Haha look, it's a skull". Nothing in their mechanics links back to "Necromancy" (Besides corpse consumption for Life Amid Death/Boneyard) or really provides anything notable in terms of class uniqueness.
It gets even worse when you fight the plethora of Worm Cultists and other assorted necromancers in the game... Whom all notably, will be summoning up (Then channeling buffs into) various undead creatures. Heck, the main story gets every player character to summon a Flesh Atronach (And Azandar, an Arcanist, has his own personal Flesh Atronach...). Then the Necromancer class itself... Gets bugger all. 1 spooky ghost healer, 1 random skeleton and a couple of "Summons" that are just glorified animations no different to Warden's "Animal Companion" skill line that summons spectral animals for skill animations...)3 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭
I'm kinda neutral about corpses, and would be just fine with them with some QoL. I don't think we're gonna be rid of them anytime soon though so I'm not holding my breath about it. Necro has some cool debuffs (and could have even more cool debuffs) but can't really make good use of any of them, imo.I'd argue that the biggest hamstring in Necro's design is in fact, the corpse mechanic itself.
From the very get go, there are limited ways to generate corpses. Even more so for non-DPS builds (Which at least have Blastbones and Ghostly Embrace as frequent corpse generators).
These corpse generators are also tied to uptime skills, so Necro's get hit again by the fact that their uptime skills of Skeletal Mage/Archer, Bone Armor and Spirit Mender are all rather short because these need to end to generate corpses (At least Summoner's Armor morph gets up to 30s).
Then of course there are the 2 tethers based around targetting corpses. Making them inconsistent in positioning and availability (Yes, even in PvE. Plenty of bosses move a lot and every time that happens, you need to generate a new corpse and then re-use the ability).
There's a reason why Necro got an uptick in usage recently, which is because of Banner Bearer with Class Mastery will spawn a corpse every 5 seconds, which helps to actually enable corpse usage (And as a result made Corpseburster set actually useful)
Outside of that, Necro's design just has a lack of direction;
- They're not really summoners. Given that they only have temporary summons and even then only 1 does damage and the other does healing (Not really counting Blastbones as that's more just a janky projectile attack)
- They have the onset of having a theme around gaining debuffs and having cleanses to remove them... But lack any proper interactions or support for them.
- Most of their skills are just generic abilities. Flame Skull is just a generic projectile attack. Boneyard is just a ground AoE. Death Scythe is just a cleave. Life Amid Death is just a targeted AoE. Frozen Colossus is just a targeted AoE. Bone Goliath is just a buff. Nothing about them feels "Necromancer" in any way besides "Haha look, it's a skull". Nothing in their mechanics links back to "Necromancy" (Besides corpse consumption for Life Amid Death/Boneyard) or really provides anything notable in terms of class uniqueness.
It gets even worse when you fight the plethora of Worm Cultists and other assorted necromancers in the game... Whom all notably, will be summoning up (Then channeling buffs into) various undead creatures. Heck, the main story gets every player character to summon a Flesh Atronach (And Azandar, an Arcanist, has his own personal Flesh Atronach...). Then the Necromancer class itself... Gets bugger all. 1 spooky ghost healer, 1 random skeleton and a couple of "Summons" that are just glorified animations no different to Warden's "Animal Companion" skill line that summons spectral animals for skill animations...)
We do definitely deserve a morph of our Frozen Colossus that's an actual pet that stays out, though. That'd be really sweet. Little damage, but just vomiting debuffs everywhere. Life would be beautiful.
That is part of my beef with Flame Skull, though. It's 'generic spammable ranged skill but with a skull animation'. Not that I have anything against the animation itself, it's just not flavorful in any way. That's really my issue with all of necro - it's a flavorless soup. I enjoy all types of necromancer, though - from the undead legion stuff to rot/debuff heavy, etc. I'm hoping if I whine with fancy enough words and sprinkle in 'class fantasy feels bad', ZOS'll fix it up a bit
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭
I would commit so many crimes for a build-a-army class, where skills and morphs are picking what kind of undead soldier you want >_> I think the server hamster would die of a heart attack, though.Avran_Sylt wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »
Well, yeah. I don't disagree. But the game has limits (like bar space). I could go for just redesigning the visuals of some skills to make them a summon of some sort, but I doubt that'll happen, unfortunately.Necrotech_Master wrote: »personally speaking necromancer in this game is about the furthest possible away from what i think of as an "ideal necromancer" lol
in my mind necromancer is about "army of the undead" and in here necromancer has 3 pitiful summon skills that arent out all the time
the lich transformation in the archive feels more like a necromancer than the actual necromancer class does lol
I thoroughly enjoyed City of Heroes' necromancer, which let you have a bunch of summons going that you'd have to buff up and stuff. It'd be cool to see a redesign where almost everything is a summon, and the major/minor/other buffs you choose are what'll end up applied to the summons, changing their effectiveness at different things and behavior, but I'm not holding my breath.
I also happen to enjoy debuff/rot archetypes, but I know a lot of folks see 'necro' and really want that undead army, even if I'm fine with just a few. Wish we could have both.
i would be more OK with limited summons if the summons were you know, actually good and not temporary
like the skeletal mage/archer is pure garbage, blastbones is OK but only because it hits hard, though its still kind of kludgy for the role its supposed to do, the healing wraith is OK but wish it did a little bit more than just a straight heal (and also if it was not a temporary summon )
the way necromancer is built in this game its very hard to play it as anything other than a tank or healer as most of the offensive skills are extremely underpowered
like i get that its supposed to have a focus on dots, but the class has no dots, theres virtually no synergy within itself for dps
edit to add: and yes mastermind is my favorite class in city of heroes too lol
I'm surprised that necro wasn't the first class that could source two permanent melee summons from a single skill-slot.
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Taril✭✭✭✭✭We do definitely deserve a morph of our Frozen Colossus that's an actual pet that stays out, though. That'd be really sweet. Little damage, but just vomiting debuffs everywhere. Life would be beautiful.
The irony of Sorc literally having this with its Storm Atronach ult while the NECROMANCER just has a 3 tick ground AoE is a disaster...
Like bruh, where's my freaking BONE GOLEM that summons swarms of skellywags? Where's my gosh darn FLESH ATRONACH that beats enemies to a pulp? Where's my hecking LICH that spams out annoying debuffs and spells everywhere?I would commit so many crimes for a build-a-army class, where skills and morphs are picking what kind of undead soldier you want >_> I think the server hamster would die of a heart attack, though.
I don't know if it's THAT unreasonable to be honest.
Sorc gets around fine with its 2 permanent summons. They (And anyone else) can throw on a couple of sets that proc temporary summons.
Not to mention, (Public) Dungeons and the like are filled with bunches of enemies (Where Daedra and Worm Cultist enemies can have several summoners among them).
So it's not like character density is an explicit problem.
Of course, its implementation would leave me concerned. If current summons are anything to go by with the whole "They have to put in their 2 weeks notice for their prior job before they can come and be summoned by you" jank... Imagine having more skills stuck behind that jank, making every encounter really awful to start.1 -
BasP✭✭✭✭✭While I get that Necromancer's class fantasy falls short for a lot of players, I have to say that I've never been a huge fan of summoner classes in RPGs and that I'm not fond of the way permanent pets work in ESO (because all of them have to be slotted on both bars thus far). So with that in mind, I'm personally okay with the way the Necromancer class is implemented in ESO. It could definitely use more buffs, QoL tweaks and DOTs though, and I like most suggestions you've made in your OP.
Here are some of my thoughts about the Necromancer's abilities:
Armor buff:- Summoner's Armor: Considering the Arcanist's Cruxweaver Armor generates up to 1 Crux every 5 seconds, giving this morph the ability to generate a Corpse when you're hit once every 5 to 10 seconds seems like a good idea to me.
- Beckoning Armor: Instead of generating more corpses, I think that it would be cool if this skill was a PBAoE so that you pull ranged enemies into your DoT.
Death Gleaning: I agree that it isn't useful in a lot of scenarios. Perhaps this passive could instead work similar to Corpse Consumption, but depend on creating instead of consuming a corpse? Something like "When you kill an enemy or create a corpse, you restore X Magicka, Stamina and Health. This effect can occur once every Y seconds."
Resistant Flesh:
It would indeed be nice if consuming corpses would buff the effectiveness and duration of the increased resistances.
Blood Sacrifice:
Is this morph even widely used? If it isn't used much, I think that it would be cool if it would be turned into a ST DoT instead. It could cost health, to go with the name, and maybe be more effective (or free to cast?) when consuming a corpse.
Remote Totem:
I don't believe Remote Totem is used much? Therefore, I'd like it if the skills was reworked into either a ground DoT or PBAoE.
Skeletal Mage:
The damage this skill deals is just too low, in my opinion. The Nightblade's Dark Shade deals 30% more damage than the Skeletal Arcanist for example, and Dark Shade also deals damage in an 8m instead of 5m radius.
Ghostly Embrace:
I wouldn't mind it if this was changed into just one patch that pulsed, like you suggested. If ZOS sticks with the current design, though, I think that it would be a nice if the patches were additive. I'd also like it if the first patch applied the DOT, the second applied Chilled and the third generated the corpse.
Death Scythe:
It would be cool if one morph was turned into a proper spammable, or maybe even an Execute ability, for damage dealers.
Pet mechanics:
Generally speaking, I think that it's too bad that Blastbones and the Skeletal Mage count as pets and therefore don't proc sets. I'm a bit miffed that the Necromancer's most powerful ability - Blastbones - doesn't work with the Ring of the Pale Order for example. The fact that Blastbones is affected by Negate is annoying in the Infinite Archive as well. On top of that, if the Skeletal Mage was a proper DoT it could proc (for example) Runecarver and would benefit from Rapid Rot too. But alas...
Edited by BasP on January 11, 2025 9:04AM1 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, a lot of QoL/minor issues with necromancer are just...it hasn't kept up with design rules. I'm hoping we eventually see more skills like what arcanist has, where the skill cost depends on your highest resource. Not everything of course, but some.While I get that Necromancer's class fantasy falls short for a lot of players, I have to say that I've never been a huge fan of summoner classes in RPGs and that I'm not fond of the way permanent pets work in ESO (because all of them have to be slotted on both bars thus far). So with that in mind, I'm personally okay with the way the Necromancer class is implemented in ESO. It could definitely use more buffs, QoL tweaks and DOTs though, and I like most suggestions you've made in your OP.
Here are some of my thoughts about the Necromancer's abilities:
Armor buff:- Summoner's Armor: Considering the Arcanist's Cruxweaver Armor generates up to 1 Crux every 5 seconds, giving this morph the ability to generate a Corpse when you're hit once every 5 to 10 seconds seems like a good idea to me.
- Beckoning Armor: Instead of generating more corpses, I think that it would be cool if this skill was a PBAoE so that you pull ranged enemies into your DoT.
Death Gleaning: I agree that it isn't useful in a lot of scenarios. Perhaps this passive could instead work similar to Corpse Consumption, but depend on creating instead of consuming a corpse? Something like "When you kill an enemy or create a corpse, you restore X Magicka, Stamina and Health. This effect can occur once every Y seconds."
Resistant Flesh:
It would indeed be nice if consuming corpses would buff the effectiveness and duration of the increased resistances.
Blood Sacrifice:
Is this morph even widely used? If it isn't used much, I think that it would be cool if it would be turned into a ST DoT instead. It could cost health, to go with the name, and maybe be more effective (or free to cast?) when consuming a corpse.
Remote Totem:
I don't believe Remote Totem is used much? Therefore, I'd like it if the skills was reworked into either a ground DoT or PBAoE.
Skeletal Mage:
The damage this skill deals is just too low, in my opinion. The Nightblade's Dark Shade deals 30% more damage than the Skeletal Arcanist for example, and Dark Shade also deals damage in an 8m instead of 5m radius.
Ghostly Embrace:
I wouldn't mind it if this was changed into just one patch that pulsed, like you suggested. If ZOS sticks with the current design, though, I think that it would be a nice if the patches were additive. I'd also like it if the first patch applied the DOT, the second applied Chilled and the third generated the corpse.
Death Scythe:
It would be cool if one morph was turned into a proper spammable, or maybe even an Execute ability, for damage dealers.
Pet mechanics:
Generally speaking, I think that it's too bad that Blastbones and the Skeletal Mage count as pets and therefore don't proc sets. I'm a bit miffed that the Necromancer's most powerful ability - Blastbones - doesn't work with the Ring of the Pale Order for example. The fact that Blastbones is affected by Negate is annoying in the Infinite Archive as well. On top of that, if the Skeletal Mage was a proper DoT it could proc (for example) Runecarver and would benefit from Rapid Rot too. But alas...
In my suggestions, I tried to keep to the original theme of skills - in other games, I've had friends who loved a particular part of a class that was then changed and killed off their entire build (CC mashing for CDR in GW2, RIP my beloved). I haven't the foggiest who uses Blood Sacrifice, but heck sure. I definitely want to see more DoTs scattered around, likely limited by corpse consumption to balance it out.
With that in mind, actually, I do personally use Remote Totem quite a lot, especially in BGs where the enemy team will often try to 'bunker' near their flag or something. It's a fantastic skill to drain their resources and just make the enemy team weaker overall due to the huge weapon damage debuff, and it takes care of CCing almost on cooldown for the next 12 seconds or so. It's fantastic when the enemy is standing still, which is something that very rarely happens but still sometimes does. The minor protection, too, is also helpful when my team is diving in there (or I'm diving in there). There is another morph that's effectively useless though (imo) - the Agony Totem morph gains a synergy that deals DoT damage over 5 seconds. Just make that on-hit and not a synergy and bamf. My main concern with the totem is ensuring the nightblades don't get pissed off - they have a melee-only fear which is almost literally the exact same thing. Only difference is Totem has a wind-up and a duration, otherwise they're both fear skills that inflict Major Cowardice. I'm down to give up the debuff in exchange for a DoT, though, or just have that be the morph - 1 sec windup (still makes it a bit difficult to land, keeps the nightblades from staring angrily at us), one morph for a DoT, one morph for minor prot and/or a HoT or something. Both ranged.
Re: Death scythe. Personally, I'd just prefer the arcanist treatment for Flame Skull, but that's just my preference. I still hate that skill and think it would be better with morphs changed to be a ranged spammable and one melee spammable, with cost decided by highest resource. Death Scythe is actually a decent heal, particularly for necromancer tanks (however many of those are around, I don't know). I also use the stamina morph in PvP, as it sets people off balance and is a decent way to get some AoE cleave spam that also heals me, applies a DoT, and can be used as a CC. Though off balance cooldown is far longer than the CC immunity cooldown, it was one of the only ways I could figure to get around Remote Totem's issues (2 seconds is just way too slow), and I ran DW/resto on that build so my options for consistent CC were limited. This is partially why I suggested making the HoT that one morph gets baseline, since necromancer has a distinct lack of class-based HoTs 'n DoTs for itself, and - at, least, *my* - ideal state of necro is one here it can stand on its own without mobility (or vampire and the movement skill). For that, it'd need a lot of juicy B E E F.
Anyway, yeah, +1, thanks for your thoughts Edited by Tonturri on January 11, 2025 5:20PM1 -
shezof✭✭✭i love necro and its skills, but many skills due to their animations keep bugging and you dont really have a good rotation.
pvp wise its lacking in what makes a strong pvp build like resource regen burst and defenses.
necro leaves much to be desired but in a game where the supposed rogue class (NB) is the best healer somehow i dont expect much balance and class identity1 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, it feels like they had no plan for the necromancer because they made the sorcerer the summoner class, when its actually the necro that should have been the summoner class.
IMO, the sorcerer should be the master of elemental damage, and the necro should be the master of summoning.
Instead, what we get is a clunky character class (necro) that has a mix of short-term summons intended to produce corpses to ramp up the necro's power. It's not very intuitive to play IMO (Ik some people DO like that playstyle - I don't).i love necro and its skills, but many skills due to their animations keep bugging and you dont really have a good rotation.
pvp wise its lacking in what makes a strong pvp build like resource regen burst and defenses.
necro leaves much to be desired but in a game where the supposed rogue class (NB) is the best healer somehow i dont expect much balance and class identity
And the templar has the best execute in the game! Very strange indeed!2 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭i love necro and its skills, but many skills due to their animations keep bugging and you dont really have a good rotation.
pvp wise its lacking in what makes a strong pvp build like resource regen burst and defenses.
necro leaves much to be desired but in a game where the supposed rogue class (NB) is the best healer somehow i dont expect much balance and class identity
I'm still not thrilled that nightblade got its own burst heal. There are so many ways whatever issues could've been addressed, but instead it was just swap out one of the less used skills (it was a CC, I recall) for another generic burst heal. Oof.
Personally, I can dig the 'ramping power up' thing, but the issue is that it doesn't actually ramp up in power. I'm actually thrilled at the class affix necromancer got and intend to use it when I can, as it tickles that itch at least a little. Perhaps stacked with the fete ring for more stacking stats.BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Honestly, it feels like they had no plan for the necromancer because they made the sorcerer the summoner class, when its actually the necro that should have been the summoner class.
IMO, the sorcerer should be the master of elemental damage, and the necro should be the master of summoning.
Instead, what we get is a clunky character class (necro) that has a mix of short-term summons intended to produce corpses to ramp up the necro's power. It's not very intuitive to play IMO (Ik some people DO like that playstyle - I don't).i love necro and its skills, but many skills due to their animations keep bugging and you dont really have a good rotation.
pvp wise its lacking in what makes a strong pvp build like resource regen burst and defenses.
necro leaves much to be desired but in a game where the supposed rogue class (NB) is the best healer somehow i dont expect much balance and class identity
And the templar has the best execute in the game! Very strange indeed!
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sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭
✭EverQuest had a fun necromancer, too. It’s a shame ZOS’s so averse to leaning into anything beyond the unusual Halloween elementalist theme for ESO’s necromancer. That’s saying nothing about Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice—a real mess that was never iterated nor fixed in any meaningful way.Edited by sans-culottes on January 13, 2025 9:14PM0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭EverQuest had a fun necromancer, too. It’s a shame ZOS’s so averse to leaning into anything beyond the unusual Halloween elementalist theme for ESO’s necromancer. That’s saying nothing about Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice—a real mess that was never iterated nor fixed in any meaningful way.
I'm still still pained by how templar gets a ranged, fast spammable in Dark Flare that applies the healing debuffs for two seconds longer for some reason >_> I recall there being healing debuff spam a while back, but surely the boom-corpse deserves a slightly longer heal debuff now, too.
Also, on another topic - I would love to see more skills like Soul Splitting Trap, a morph of the DoT in the soul magic world skill tree. It's an AoE sticky DoT! I love it!2 -
sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭
✭EverQuest had a fun necromancer, too. It’s a shame ZOS’s so averse to leaning into anything beyond the unusual Halloween elementalist theme for ESO’s necromancer. That’s saying nothing about Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice—a real mess that was never iterated nor fixed in any meaningful way.
I'm still still pained by how templar gets a ranged, fast spammable in Dark Flare that applies the healing debuffs for two seconds longer for some reason >_> I recall there being healing debuff spam a while back, but surely the boom-corpse deserves a slightly longer heal debuff now, too.
Also, on another topic - I would love to see more skills like Soul Splitting Trap, a morph of the DoT in the soul magic world skill tree. It's an AoE sticky DoT! I love it!
Given that they seem to be trying to shoehorn the “DoT class” play style on necromancers, it’d make sense for there to be a sticky DoT. Let’s not even go into the poorly designed tethers and their sad interaction with corpses. Of all the design choices to lift from the Diablo series, this is the most baffling.
Mind you, people have been saying this for years. @CameraBeardThePirate has done yeoman’s work attempting to draw attention to the many dysfunctional elements of this class (Sacrificial Bones/GLS being one of many). It’s too bad they’ve been completely ignored by, e.g., @ZOS_Kevin.2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its because the Necro is not a Necro. Like @Necrotech_Master said, its mess with the archer/mage, blastbones is a horribly designed skill, and the wraith is just weak. I'd also include the tether. Its miserable to try to effectively use and compounds the corpse creation issue. Oddly, classes like Sorcerer and Templar have similar skills but are more intuitive to use.
The biggest downfall/disappointment is you can not reanimate the dead. It would be incredible if you could do so, like Mannimarco did in the main story quest. I'm not even asking to reanimate something like a Keelcutter or Flameshaper (which would be awesome), just give me 5-6 dead adds I can toss at a target while I fire off my wonky skills like flaming skull and blastbones. You know, like the other necromancers do in this game...1 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭Given that they seem to be trying to shoehorn the “DoT class” play style on necromancers, it’d make sense for there to be a sticky DoT.
Being honest, they've done a pretty poor example of even making Necro the "DoT class".
Arcanist is currently the defacto DoT class due to Fatecarver being a DoT and so works really well with DoT sets like Azureblight due to how rapidly it hits.
While DK has the most design around DoTs with plenty of DoTs within their kit and their synergies with Burning and Poison (This is also what makes them excellent at using Z'en which is another DoT set)
Necro has Rapid Rot to make them do more DoT damage... But lacks the DoTs to justify it.3 -
sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Oh no, I agree. I meant to highlight this ironically, as Rapid Rot was another somewhat random passive added to a class whose DoTs are either stationary or tethers. Poor design. In other words, agreeing.Given that they seem to be trying to shoehorn the “DoT class” play style on necromancers, it’d make sense for there to be a sticky DoT.
Being honest, they've done a pretty poor example of even making Necro the "DoT class".
Arcanist is currently the defacto DoT class due to Fatecarver being a DoT and so works really well with DoT sets like Azureblight due to how rapidly it hits.
While DK has the most design around DoTs with plenty of DoTs within their kit and their synergies with Burning and Poison (This is also what makes them excellent at using Z'en which is another DoT set)
Necro has Rapid Rot to make them do more DoT damage... But lacks the DoTs to justify it.
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Afterip✭✭✭PC/Mac Patch Notes v5.2.5 - Dragonhold & Update 24 Bookmark
Rapid Rot: Increased the damage bonus for this passive to 15%, up from 10%.
PC/Mac Patch Notes v8.1.5 - Lost Depths DLC & Update 35 Bookmark
Rapid Rot: This passive now increases your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 5/10%, down from 7/15%.
@ZOS_Kevin. Is it time to get back 15%?3 -
DigiAngel✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Necromancer's class falls short"
Fixed for you
Seriously though, I was just on a site...a buncha "solo anything" builds...all the way up to soloing vet dungeons. Guess which class wasn't even in the list. Necro...it's just in such a sad state these days.1 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭PC/Mac Patch Notes v5.2.5 - Dragonhold & Update 24 Bookmark
Rapid Rot: Increased the damage bonus for this passive to 15%, up from 10%.
PC/Mac Patch Notes v8.1.5 - Lost Depths DLC & Update 35 Bookmark
Rapid Rot: This passive now increases your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 5/10%, down from 7/15%.
@ZOS_Kevin. Is it time to get back 15%?"Necromancer's class falls short"
Fixed for you
Seriously though, I was just on a site...a buncha "solo anything" builds...all the way up to soloing vet dungeons. Guess which class wasn't even in the list. Necro...it's just in such a sad state these days.
There are a few actually, though they seem particularly reliant on the corpse explosion set. I don't claim to be super familiar with the exact numbers, as I don't do vet trials or anything so necromancer's top end DPS doesn't really concern me. Still, I think it's issues extend beyond just numbers and into class flavor. Rapid Rot could be 50% and it'd still feel bad, imo, just because of a lack of class DoTs.3 -
sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭
✭This was one of my favorite suggestions. From another thread:Ajaxandriel wrote: »Aquamancer
or Elementalist if you don't include Fire and Earth already taken by DK, and Air's lightning already taken by Sorc and Shock Staff.
We already have an Elementalist class it's called the "Necromancer". It does Fire, Frost, Shock, Poison, Bleed, Disease, Magic, and Physical damage!
We could use a Necromancer class though, maybe call it the "Elementalist" and give it the abilities from the IA Lich form and all the npc necromancers in the game, with a Flesh Atronach buddy.
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I think Necromancer needs a definite overhaul. It should be a mix of temporary and permanent pets for use. It doesn't need to be "every" skill, but a few would do. Let me just do a broad summary.
DPS skills:
2 of the Active skills should be a perm summon ((similar to Sorc pets in function, but not purpose. Both DPS. One could be a Single-Target "mob" type (2-3 skeletons/bloodfiends that chase down a target and damage them. Applies debuff on activation of skill). The other the Skeletal Mage. Drops DoT AoE on targeted location while causing passive damage to assigned enemy)). 1 skill as a temp pet (could be Blastbones before the current version). And the last 2 can either be a good spam and AoE, cleave, or whatever. Ult could be summoning a squad of undead that last 30-45 seconds, or another permanent undead with an AoE like the current skill (could be similar to the bone colossus we see necromancers summon with blue fire).
Tank:
1 skill creates a bone wall. Effectively like what the Cryomancers do (or bigger. It taunts non-bosses to take pressure off). 1 skill is like the totem to create buffs for tanking. 2 abilities to buff/debuff (self/group). 1 skill to taunt. Last skill provides Armor buff (Ex: Major Resolve. Could be pretty similar current Bone Armor). Ult could stay as a transformation. Ult could stay as-is for base morph, Ravenous stays as-is (but with an extended time), but Pummeling Goliath become an alternate form entirely. More DPS focused (lich form? Similar to Skyrim mod Undeath?) Toggle (buffs decrease over time like Sorc's Hurricane builds in size, but over a 30-second but grants an alternate function). Gives alternate ult while in form but takes extra damage from fire to a degree (not as bad as Vampires).
Healing:
2 skils for perm undead. One heals self and people passively in the area. The other can create a shield (destroying shield kills the pet. Morph provides shields to group within a range and makes shields a bit stronger and the other turns it into more of a tank and can taunt a selected target and those around the target in a medium AoE). 1 skill AoE heal. 1 skill self/small group heal. 1 purge skill. Ult skill is around the same but with small rework (drop the cost a little).
As for the permanent undeads, I would make them active even if I switch bars. Sorcs should have pets reworked to stay active if bars are swapped and only on one bar. As for the number of summons, I think they'll be fine (especially for role-based builds).
If anything, this game needs to have skills work differently in and out of PvE and PvP. Doing a buff or nerf should not effect both.
Welp, hope this was an entertaining read. Like I said, it was a summary. Some spots were a bit detailed, but not specific. As you noticed, I never mentioned Corpses. I do think that corpses could be removed or reworked to a degree to be a more passive role (so it adds a benefit, but is not a core mechanic).
As you can see, there are a lot of pets used. For Sorc, it should focus on Dark magic, Summoning Daedra, Daedric curses, and Lightning-based attacks. Necromancers should be about using the Dead with some other spells in tow. Mainly, they should be be commanders of the undead.Edited by Silvains_Demon on February 15, 2025 5:49AM1 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭Venom Skull is an awful spamable. My stamcro uses Silver Shards instead. It does more damage, hits more targets, and has just as many knock-on effects (0). The sustain bonus is useless. If the "every third cast" version was just the whole skill, it could be something. As it is, it's easily the worst spamable in the game (unless you consider sorc's Crystal to be a spamable).4 -
necro_the_crafter✭✭✭✭✭I think necro suffer most from having mandatory DPS/TANK/HEALER skillines.
If necro had been done alike base game classes where its skilllines follow a theme rather that gamplay archetype it would be much better.
First skilline could be about manipulating souls via black soul gems, and second skill line fully centered on undead summons. As for third skill line healing could remain its main focus.
And then like a DK you could chosse from theese two "new" skilklines either dps morph or tanking morph for certain skills.
And for everyone who thinks that soul manipulation is avaliable to everyone and cannot be necro specific thing, well, lightning staff is also avaliable to everyone but sorcs have class specific lightning skill tree so dont think that would be much of an issue.5
