People always assuming the worst.

Destai

I think it’s fair to be cautious.

For me, as someone who has been here since beta, I have seen a lot of letters, promises, and hype that didn’t line up 100% to what got actually delivered.

My personal view is they are making the best of their limited resources and their time. Whatever their staffing is like, as a customer, I have concerns about how the last few years played out. In 2020, and maybe even before, we had commitments for a year of performance. I know that some efforts were done, but I don’t really remember them going into details. Then since Necrom, we had similar commitments for a dedicated quarter of QoL adjustments and the feature list was smaller compared to years past.

Now, ok, we are sunsetting chapters for a more seasonal approach with content sprinkled in. I feel like this puts so many little moments into perspective. Companions being moved to the store, skill styles, harvesting styles, it all just seems like there is going to be an even greater focus on the crown store. For a game where, for years, people have asked for more rewards, it doesn’t seem like they’re able to deliver on that as well as they can with new monetization. Their pricing really makes me nervous for this future.

The feature list looks ok to me. Obviously will wait and see, but if they can deliver, sure, great. But how will it actually look and how much am I paying for it? If their current pricing is any indication, probably a lot.

I want to be excited for the game. I really do. Heck, I have it up right now while I enjoy my coffee. But if you look at my concerns and then start reflecting on what level of communication have we gotten around them, it should put some negativity into perspective.

Ultimately, I love the game and want it to do well. I also want to enjoy it without spending a fortune.

JiubLeRepenti

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

This last year has given us the chapter with the least amount of content, companions added to the crown store, a $20 reskin of the sorcerer pet which is worse than the original, a housing update that was underwhelming for most, a PvP update that a whole bunch dislike, some of the worst game performance in the history of the game, an Anniversary event that was so heavily RNG dependent that some people had to take an extended break from the game due to farming burnout, and a developer letter that was tone deaf to all the bad that 2024 brought.

It's pretty easy to see why some people don't assume the worst anymore, they just expect it.

Absolutely right.

I would add that the "Home Tours" feature was already available through an addon.

AllenaNightWood

CalamityCat wrote: »

I prefer to see the specifics before I complain about things that might never happen.But I've also been a jaded long term player in other MMOs, so I understand the pessimism too. My mindset is that I play for fun, so if it stops being fun I move on. Likewise if it's too expensive.

I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing how the whole seasons thing will work in ESO. I definitely support updating and adding new content to the older existing areas, rather than adding areas for the sake of it. I'm currently training a few characters and being reminded how many lovely old areas and characters there are in the base game.

Slight tangent...I secretly hope Stuga can make another appearance, I'd find it hilarious if she rushed into a new encounter and accosted me. She always made me laugh when I was a noob. I'd love her as a houseguest - a long-suffering messenger with the option for her to rush up to guests and say "do you know how long I've been looking for you?!" and drop a sack of messages at their feet.

I look forward to the PvP specific skills, especially if this also means there are less visually intensive versions of skills. I would LOVE if there was a set of really basic visuals for skills that I could switch to in PvE too. Less animated, controls to tone down how bright the colours are etc. Both as a performance boost and to make it easier to see what's going on during trials and dungeon fights too.

I would also hope that future changes can be made to balance either PvP or PvE without having to negatively affect the other. If skills and gear can be created with different properties for PvP/PvE, I think that would be a better way forward.

Overall, it sounds like comments from the community have been taken on board and there will be some experiments coming our way, rather than repeating the same release schedule and methods. I think that's a good way forward.

updating old zones visually and with new content is long over due and continuing stuff like guild ie dark brother hood and theives is fantastic to grow upon there standing during this time frame, but i also hope we still get certain things we come to expect like trials

DigiAngel

U35: "Hey...we know you worked hard for light weaving and rotation, but here's a nerf". That's why. When ZoS does stuff like this....the assumption is more stuff like this to come.

LadyLethalla

My two cents: content planning starts 2-3 years in advance, does it not? So this decision will have been made some time ago.

NDReptiles

CalamityCat wrote: »

Slight tangent...I secretly hope Stuga can make another appearance, I'd find it hilarious if she rushed into a new encounter and accosted me. She always made me laugh when I was a noob. I'd love her as a houseguest - a long-suffering messenger with the option for her to rush up to guests and say "do you know how long I've been looking for you?!" and drop a sack of messages at their feet.

I would love to have Stuga as a houseguest! At first she annoyed me but then I started to find her funny. I enjoyed sprinting past her and yelling at the screen, "Not long enough!" Or "Get thee behind me, Stuga!" Ect.

Rkindaleft

People assume the worst because we've played for several years and repeatedly saw ZOS either fail to deliver on what was promised or watch the game get progressively worse with it's more aggressive pushing of cash shop and FOMO like putting companions in the crown store or making ESO Plus less worth the price due to the reduction in DLCs.

They scrapped proper content updates in Q3 and Q4 to do QoL and bug fixes, we got the bare minimum of QoL and we got no more fixes then we did in any other update. There are *major* bugs that have been in the game for years that have had hundreds or thousands of bug reports and still remain to this day and we get Home Tours type updates for QoL (Q3 and Q4 were nothing updates for 99% of the player base this year.)

People have been told "we'll fix Cyrodiil" for 5+ years and I don't know why anyone is actually convinced that this time it will be when it didn't happen the other 20 times they said it.

Stamicka

I certainly haven’t ever been given a reason to expect the best.

LadyGP

LadyLethalla wrote: »

My two cents: content planning starts 2-3 years in advance, does it not? So this decision will have been made some time ago.

Yes, this wasn't something they just thought of sometime this year. My thoughts are they were trying to address performance issues while pumping out the usual content and the performance issues ended up being deeper and more complicated than they thought. This basically put them in a window where they have X amount of resources and Y amount of time to get everything pumped out and there just isn't enough time.

On top of that there sounds like there wasn't enough time for them to take a step back and spin up some pilot projects (experiments) because they were boxed in with this tight release window.

With that being said... its human nature to see the flaws in everything so not really shocked at the feedback they are receiving. Actually, I'm surprised at how many people are being vocal that they are excited (I'm one of those).

MidniteOwl1913

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

This last year has given us the chapter with the least amount of content, companions added to the crown store, a $20 reskin of the sorcerer pet which is worse than the original, a housing update that was underwhelming for most, a PvP update that a whole bunch dislike, some of the worst game performance in the history of the game, an Anniversary event that was so heavily RNG dependent that some people had to take an extended break from the game due to farming burnout, and a developer letter that was tone deaf to all the bad that 2024 brought.

It's pretty easy to see why some people don't assume the worst anymore, they just expect it.

Absolutely right.

I would add that the "Home Tours" feature was already available through an addon.

No addons on the console. And although PC players far outnumber console we do exist.

shadyjane62

Between the AWA and U35 things have been difficult for me. The loss of jabs was a mortal blow and I have been walking dead ever since. I will wait to see what they say but after the last couple years I can't see putting any more money here.

Ingenon

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

No addons on the console. And although PC players far outnumber console we do exist.

Where is the source for player counts on each platform? I have tried finding this using search engines and come up empty.

Separately, rumors I hear are that total PC player count, and total console player count are roughly equal.

Lylith

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

It gets exhausting really really fast.

You can't even open youtube without being bombarded with videos of people ranting about how game x is dying / bad.

given the number of games that've been doa lately, it's hard to blame them.

Ugrak

LadyLethalla wrote: »

My two cents: content planning starts 2-3 years in advance, does it not? So this decision will have been made some time ago.

Update 35 and the backlash that followed during that year did have ZOS announce a change of direction back in the end of year letter of 2022.

https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363

For example I believe the Necrom and Gold road storyline would have been one complete chapter, considering the release cycle up to that point, but seems to have gotten stretched across two years instead of developing a new storyline chapter for 2024.

So presumably development resources have been diverted to something else (and hopefully ESO projects and not that other MMO).

The 2024 letter in this light just seems like a reaffirmation of the 2022 intention, with more specifics. I like what I'm reading, but of course it will also have to be delivered.

Lags

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a major problem with the player base, everyone likes to make assumptions, they think because of this content release change that it is somehow bad, if ZOS just released another expansion it would just be the same old thing over and over again, it would be 1 or 2 zones, 6 Delves, 6 World Bosses, 2 Public Dungeons,1 Trial and a new feature you might not even bother with like Tales of Tribute, is this what you really want again for the 8th year in a row?

I for one am pleased ZOS is going to try something different, with smaller self-contained DLCs we might see things more akin to the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and Murkmire DLCs, we could see the smaller areas of the map filled that would be too small for expansion zones such as Central Elsweyr, this has the potential for more interesting stories and content when it is no longer reliant on being connected to an overarching story.

I wonder why people always assume the worst when it comes to eso. People on forums are usually more negative than positive, but with eso specifically i think the skepticism is warranted. I dont go on the gw2 forums and see all the dooming i see on the eso forums, for example. I think zos has disappointed people so much, especially with changes to combat and adding in things people didnt ask for.

But i agree its good they are trying different things. A huge problem with eso is every update is so similar. Nothing is feels exciting. Zos doesnt like to take risks. So if they change that, great. Im personally not worried at all about the content cadence, but if they make a change that people, overall, really dont like, then they need to be just as willing to go back on it. And unfortunately, in the past, they are not.

Artem_gig

Desiato wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

I am very surprised that the developers literally said what the community asked for every year, but as soon as the developers started doing it, everyone immediately started complaining that that's it, the game is dying, no more content...

The community isn't a single entity or hive mind, so this characterization isn't really valid. I doubt many, if any, have suddenly changed their positions.

ESO has an incredibly diverse audience, so no matter what ZOS does, they are likely to upset someone.

It's fair for people to be worried. I'm making an effort to avoid jumping to conclusions, but many of us have read letters like this before and they don't always herald change we would prefer.

lack of change -> stagnation -> death.

But even without taking into account the lack of changes, I am not saying that the community is united, of course. But for 5-8 years the developers ignored the requests of that part of the players who asked for these changes (in my case, this is the majority of the players I met, all of them as one asked for what was said in the letter)

BlueRaven

Artem_gig wrote: »

…. (in my case, this is the majority of the players I met, all of them as one asked for what was said in the letter)

And yet if you look at the poll in another thread, most people are unhappy. People group and talk with other people with similar mindsets, that is fine. Their needs/wants will also be similar.

But if you say asked people in an RP guild (for example) your responses would be much different on “what’s important”.

Same as casual guilds, housing guilds, trading guilds… Each one will give you different answers.

Tannus15

Or they could just tell us the basic outline of what a season will look like.

"the season pass will only be available for money from the ESO website, and when the season ends the season content that remains available in the game will become accessible with ESO+ or purchase with crowns"

ok, cool. now we know what to expect.
right now we know nothing, because they have chosen not to tell us anything. for a month.

why would this be a reason to be optimistic?

Artem_gig

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

…. (in my case, this is the majority of the players I met, all of them as one asked for what was said in the letter)

And yet if you look at the poll in another thread, most people are unhappy. People group and talk with other people with similar mindsets, that is fine. Their needs/wants will also be similar.

But if you say asked people in an RP guild (for example) your responses would be much different on “what’s important”.

Same as casual guilds, housing guilds, trading guilds… Each one will give you different answers.

the survey still does not give the whole truth, because the interest in the survey is greater among those people who want to discuss their dissatisfaction, while those who are happy with everything just read the letter and finally calmed down. And do not add me to the fact that I am one of those who asked for this, on the contrary, I just looked at the forum threads starting in 2018, and every year I saw the same requests that were announced in this letter. And not only from the EN forums, but also the German forum and the Russian forum. Believe me, it is the same there (or check it yourself). Therefore, it is strange for me to see messages "Why are they adding something that no one asked for?" They are adding exactly what was discussed in the forum most often. The complication of battles in the overland is the most common thing I have seen on the forums (on par with the fix of Cyrodiil). Updating base locations is in second place in popularity. The change in the system of release of add-ons only appeared in the last month.

I don't judge the opinions of players from guilds, because the developers don't sit in these guilds, I judge by the forum users.

JonnytheKing

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a major problem with the player base, everyone likes to make assumptions, they think because of this content release change that it is somehow bad, if ZOS just released another expansion it would just be the same old thing over and over again, it would be 1 or 2 zones, 6 Delves, 6 World Bosses, 2 Public Dungeons,1 Trial and a new feature you might not even bother with like Tales of Tribute, is this what you really want again for the 8th year in a row?

I for one am pleased ZOS is going to try something different, with smaller self-contained DLCs we might see things more akin to the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and Murkmire DLCs, we could see the smaller areas of the map filled that would be too small for expansion zones such as Central Elsweyr, this has the potential for more interesting stories and content when it is no longer reliant on being connected to an overarching story.

The major issue lies with ZOS, not the player base. Having been here for 10 years, I’ve seen far too many broken promises. The problem with them potentially moving away from chapters likely stems from reduced spending on the game. While this might be expected, it doesn’t necessarily mean things will improve.

ZOS exhausted all their goodwill years ago, so it’s no surprise that many people assume the worst. Additionally, Matt shouldn’t have shared just enough information to let us draw our own conclusions without providing clarity about their actual plans.

Artem_gig

Tannus15 wrote: »

"the season pass will only be available for money from the ESO website, and when the season ends the season content that remains available in the game will become accessible with ESO+ or purchase with crowns"

It seems to me that this is exactly what will happen, because this option sounds like the most realistic option possible for Teso.

SeaGtGruff

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

the "Home Tours" feature was already available through an addon.

Which did absolutely nothing for all of the players who play the game on console, or through some online service that doesn't allow addons (I'm not sure whether GeForce Now does or not). How dare ZOS try to enhance their game in a way that benefits players on all platforms alike.

CatoUnchained

JonnytheKing wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This is a major problem with the player base, everyone likes to make assumptions, they think because of this content release change that it is somehow bad, if ZOS just released another expansion it would just be the same old thing over and over again, it would be 1 or 2 zones, 6 Delves, 6 World Bosses, 2 Public Dungeons,1 Trial and a new feature you might not even bother with like Tales of Tribute, is this what you really want again for the 8th year in a row?

I for one am pleased ZOS is going to try something different, with smaller self-contained DLCs we might see things more akin to the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and Murkmire DLCs, we could see the smaller areas of the map filled that would be too small for expansion zones such as Central Elsweyr, this has the potential for more interesting stories and content when it is no longer reliant on being connected to an overarching story.

The major issue lies with ZOS, not the player base. Having been here for 10 years, I’ve seen far too many broken promises. The problem with them potentially moving away from chapters likely stems from reduced spending on the game. While this might be expected, it doesn’t necessarily mean things will improve.

ZOS exhausted all their goodwill years ago, so it’s no surprise that many people assume the worst. Additionally, Matt shouldn’t have shared just enough information to let us draw our own conclusions without providing clarity about their actual plans.

The thread discussing moderation was even closed, citing bashing as the reason. Criticism, constructive or not, is a problem for some, but not for those looking to be objective and respected.

BlueRaven

Artem_gig wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

…. (in my case, this is the majority of the players I met, all of them as one asked for what was said in the letter)

And yet if you look at the poll in another thread, most people are unhappy. People group and talk with other people with similar mindsets, that is fine. Their needs/wants will also be similar.

But if you say asked people in an RP guild (for example) your responses would be much different on “what’s important”.

Same as casual guilds, housing guilds, trading guilds… Each one will give you different answers.

the survey still does not give the whole truth, because the interest in the survey is greater among those people who want to discuss their dissatisfaction, while those who are happy with everything just read the letter and finally calmed down. And do not add me to the fact that I am one of those who asked for this, on the contrary, I just looked at the forum threads starting in 2018, and every year I saw the same requests that were announced in this letter. And not only from the EN forums, but also the German forum and the Russian forum. Believe me, it is the same there (or check it yourself). Therefore, it is strange for me to see messages "Why are they adding something that no one asked for?" They are adding exactly what was discussed in the forum most often. The complication of battles in the overland is the most common thing I have seen on the forums (on par with the fix of Cyrodiil). Updating base locations is in second place in popularity. The change in the system of release of add-ons only appeared in the last month.

I don't judge the opinions of players from guilds, because the developers don't sit in these guilds, I judge by the forum users.

And many of the people “I met” wanted furniture bags, increased housing limits, and the reintroduction of smaller houses.

They also wanted pve group sizes to go back to 24 people, racial stats to reflect the lore, and housing plans to be easier farmed.

They also wanted story modes for dungeons and trials, additional animal skins for wardens and sorcs, and a pve version of IC and Cyrodiil.

All of these have been mentioned on the forums as well (go check) and yet it did not get mentioned in the letter.

Not everyone is the same, people play the game differently that is why there is a variety of things to do in the game.

Now everyone you “met” who all apparently agree with each other (although apparently you don’t? So not unanimous after all I guess.) may want the same thing. But that does not make those views universal.

There was very little in that letter that I support. Only better guild tools was nice. Everything else was terrible. It has destroyed my even wanting to log into the game anymore. It all seems pointless.

Now you see? You just met someone who does not agree with the letter. And by the poll, around 60% of the people are also unhappy because what they wanted was ignored. I hate to burst your bubble but this letter was not good news to a great deal of players.

Artem_gig

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

…. (in my case, this is the majority of the players I met, all of them as one asked for what was said in the letter)

And yet if you look at the poll in another thread, most people are unhappy. People group and talk with other people with similar mindsets, that is fine. Their needs/wants will also be similar.

But if you say asked people in an RP guild (for example) your responses would be much different on “what’s important”.

Same as casual guilds, housing guilds, trading guilds… Each one will give you different answers.

the survey still does not give the whole truth, because the interest in the survey is greater among those people who want to discuss their dissatisfaction, while those who are happy with everything just read the letter and finally calmed down. And do not add me to the fact that I am one of those who asked for this, on the contrary, I just looked at the forum threads starting in 2018, and every year I saw the same requests that were announced in this letter. And not only from the EN forums, but also the German forum and the Russian forum. Believe me, it is the same there (or check it yourself). Therefore, it is strange for me to see messages "Why are they adding something that no one asked for?" They are adding exactly what was discussed in the forum most often. The complication of battles in the overland is the most common thing I have seen on the forums (on par with the fix of Cyrodiil). Updating base locations is in second place in popularity. The change in the system of release of add-ons only appeared in the last month.

I don't judge the opinions of players from guilds, because the developers don't sit in these guilds, I judge by the forum users.

And many of the people “I met” wanted furniture bags, increased housing limits, and the reintroduction of smaller houses.

They also wanted pve group sizes to go back to 24 people, racial stats to reflect the lore, and housing plans to be easier farmed.

They also wanted story modes for dungeons and trials, additional animal skins for wardens and sorcs, and a pve version of IC and Cyrodiil.

All of these have been mentioned on the forums as well (go check) and yet it did not get mentioned in the letter.

Not everyone is the same, people play the game differently that is why there is a variety of things to do in the game.

Now everyone you “met” who all apparently agree with each other (although apparently you don’t? So not unanimous after all I guess.) may want the same thing. But that does not make those views universal.

There was very little in that letter that I support. Only better guild tools was nice. Everything else was terrible. It has destroyed my even wanting to log into the game anymore. It all seems pointless.

Now you see? You just met someone who does not agree with the letter. And by the poll, around 60% of the people are also unhappy because what they wanted was ignored. I hate to burst your bubble but this letter was not good news to a great deal of players.

There will always be dissatisfied people, there are no universal updates, because there are even those who consider the house limits more than sufficient and do not want them to be increased. The fact that you do not like these updates does not make them bad. They have been requested for many years. Right now, go to the official thread with reviews on the difficulty of Overland and you will see that a huge number are asking to make it harder. I personally know almost 30 people (already from guilds that left the game due to the lack of enjoyable combat) and on the forums they have also asked many times to update this aspect. The fact that they did not mention what you wrote does not mean that it will not happen, because as was said in the letter, they will experiment with EVERYTHING that players asked for, but they mentioned only a little, what players started asking for a long time ago.

Artem_gig

Maybe for many, but I won't say that for the majority. Because those who were disappointed in the game due to the lack of these updates earlier have not been sitting on the forums for a long time.

MidniteOwl1913

Ingenon wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

No addons on the console. And although PC players far outnumber console we do exist.

Where is the source for player counts on each platform? I have tried finding this using search engines and come up empty.

Separately, rumors I hear are that total PC player count, and total console player count are roughly equal.

I made an informal poll a few months ago on the forums and I believe it was about 30% console, the rest PC. I just get irritated that so many seem to assume that everyone must have addons...

tomofhyrule

I think "assuming the worst" is something this population tends to do.

Granted, the forums have always trended negative - people don't usually come to the forums to gush about how much they love the game. But this was an exceptionally rough year for several reasons, and a lot of that was glossed over. And with the cancellation of the US event without any explanation, the ideas the forum came up with trended negative - to budget and a possible shift in the game release schedule that could be disappointing... and it seems like that was the closest to the mark.

A lot of it is looking at trends. Even consider this year - the Q3 patch this year promised Housing content, and people hyped themselves up for certain highly-requested things (that were previously explicitly declared impossible by the devs, but that's a different issue). And then we got something that, while it is a nice feature, is something that's more like a bonus feature than a tentpole itself. The Q4 patch promised PvP content, and people hyped themselves up for Cyrodiil, and then the content ended up being a tear-down-and-rebuild of one of the less popular PvP modes, which was laden with bugs and discontent. And now... we're getting plenty of time again to speculate what's coming before the devs deign to give us any other information. This just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'm not thinking the sky is falling... at least not yet. But I'm not going to pretend that the cancellation of the event followed by this letter makes it seem like ESO is on the upswing either. There was a lot of disappointing news we got in the last two weeks, and we're only getting questions that we have to fill the answers in for ourselves. Sure, the letter's promising a lot of things that people have wanted for a while... at the expense of other things. And a lot of people have heard a lot of those promises before, and nothing's come out of them.

Once bitten, twice shy. We're at the point that promises of something they plan to do isn't gonna cut it. We need to see some things. Then maybe we'll see if it's something that brings that hype (and more importantly, trust) back to the game.

Grizzbeorn

Tannus15 wrote: »

right now we know nothing, because they have chosen not to tell us anything. for a month.

Um, April is actually FIVE months away, not one.

Estin

tomofhyrule wrote: »

A lot of it is looking at trends. Even consider this year - the Q3 patch this year promised Housing content, and people hyped themselves up for certain highly-requested things (that were previously explicitly declared impossible by the devs, but that's a different issue). And then we got something that, while it is a nice feature, is something that's more like a bonus feature than a tentpole itself. The Q4 patch promised PvP content, and people hyped themselves up for Cyrodiil, and then the content ended up being a tear-down-and-rebuild of one of the less popular PvP modes, which was laden with bugs and discontent. And now... we're getting plenty of time again to speculate what's coming before the devs deign to give us any other information. This just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Relating to recent talks of better communication, this is what I wish they'll improve on when it comes to it. Keeping future content details a secret from the player base rarely does any good. We're mostly given 10,000 level views months prior to it's reveal, and all it leads to is a lot of speculation with each player setting their own expectations. I understand that it can generate hype around an update, but more often than not, it causes massive disappointment because each player was expecting something different.

I hope with the seasonal approach, they can start giving us much more detailed outlines of what they're planning to do months in advanced. OSRS has been doing it for years and has seen much success from it. They don't need to spill everything, and can even keep some surprises, but detailed plans will do nothing but good imo. Yes, there will still be a lot of complaints, but not nearly as much I feel, and there is the possibility that genuine feedback can be implemented before it becomes a hassle to do. I work as a developer too, nowhere near the scale of this game, but I understand the hassle around building something and then being asked to make X change/implementation. It's much easier to make those changes long before the product is finished since it can be built with them in mind.