Submiting bugs ? No use !

BixenteN7Akantor

I've been submitting more than 70 bugs through the bug-report system in more than 2 years. I have always been detailling the location, what is the problem, how to reproduce it, how to fix it because I know how a CHORE bugfixing is, yet this system gives no feedback, no answer and literally none of the bugs I reported were ever fixed !
I literally just went to check the first bug I submited 2,5 years ago which is a hole in a wall in a delve in bloody Craglorn that probably dates back to 1.0, and it is STILL here !
The last straw that made me write this is discovering the bug report system is bot-run, I got a bug-report rejected because it is "a duplicate" which obviously would not have happened if a human read it...
I have I spent hours detailling stuff for nothing ? I love this game but from now on do not count on me for reporting terrain nonsense, broken NPCs and Infinite Archive bugs, since you don't read. At least on UESP, people can see the bugs I report...

Morvan

Been there, there are several bugs players have been reporting for years, the most annoying one for me is when dungeon bosses disappear right after you attack them, they go invisible and often times reset over and over before combat starts, happens a lot with the Cadaverous Menagerie in Fang Lair and literally in the middle of the fight against Cernunnon in Falkreath.

What I noticed is that all dungeon bosses that are multiple enemies, not a singular boss, have that chance to disappear and reset before combat, I don't know what triggers it but it's annoying as hell.

moderatelyfatman

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I've been submitting more than 70 bugs through the bug-report system in more than 2 years. I have always been detailling the location, what is the problem, how to reproduce it, how to fix it because I know how a CHORE bugfixing is, yet this system gives no feedback, no answer and literally none of the bugs I reported were ever fixed !
I literally just went to check the first bug I submited 2,5 years ago which is a hole in a wall in a delve in bloody Craglorn that probably dates back to 1.0, and it is STILL here !
The last straw that made me write this is discovering the bug report system is bot-run, I got a bug-report rejected because it is "a duplicate" which obviously would not have happened if a human read it...
I have I spent hours detailling stuff for nothing ? I love this game but from now on do not count on me for reporting terrain nonsense, broken NPCs and Infinite Archive bugs, since you don't read. At least on UESP, people can see the bugs I report...

Thank you for your service.
Most of us stopped reporting bugs a long time ago because nothing got fixed. I think the forums are a better place for reporting as it gets people such as myself who experience bugs but don't report them unless they are game breaking to become active.

IncultaWolf

There's a bug when selecting a vision/verse in Infinite Archive while in werewolf form that breaks the animations. I've been reporting it since pts and every patch since, and it's been in the game for a year now. Happens every time too, not something that's difficult to reproduce.

Rkindaleft

It can be frustrating - and trust me when I say you’re not the only one. Lots of people used to report bugs when they are/were on PTS and then stopped because a significant portion of them still make it to live.

Castle Thorn last boss circle not moving has been a bug for 3 years and has had hundreds of bug reports - Rich even acknowledged the bug on Twitter (or maybe even a live stream?) ages ago and still remains to this day. It’s also evident a lot of newer things aren’t tested properly because when the boss was ported to the Infinite Archive the bug can now also occur there as well.

DemonicGoat

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It can be frustrating - and trust me when I say you’re not the only one. Lots of people used to report bugs when they are/were on PTS and then stopped because a significant portion of them still make it to live.

Castle Thorn last boss circle not moving has been a bug for 3 years and has had hundreds of bug reports - Rich even acknowledged the bug on Twitter (or maybe even a live stream?) ages ago and still remains to this day. It’s also evident a lot of newer things aren’t tested properly because when the boss was ported to the Infinite Archive the bug can now also occur there as well.

@ZOS_RichLambert Is this true?

BixenteN7Akantor

It's even worse than I thought then...
I don't ask for the bugs to be fixed asap because they are listed by priority, but I just want to know if they have been put in the list of bugs to fix in the first place ! Not the "Your commentary has been received, thank you. *Ticket Closed*" ! A real answer please !!
Though since the PvP stream debacle, ZOS has been way more communicative here in the forums which is so great, maybe they'll answer here...

StihlReign

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

It's even worse than I thought then...

It is...a brief stroll through PTS for any active gamer is sobering. There are reported, cataloged and tested pre patch release bugs that the player base often endures for months, sometimes years.

Thank you for what you've been doing! That's awesome

LalMirchi

Casually glancing at the Bug section of of this forum is to me rather depressing and causes occasional rage as it's rather useless. There is sadly very meager response of the issues presented.

I'm not at all sure how the internal bug reporting & tracking works in-game but using a rigid platform like the current Vanilla forum software is absolutely not an effective bug tracking strategy.

sarahthes

I assume it's more a question of resources and triaging, as well as ease of reproduction, that determines whether a bug is fixed quickly or slowly.

LalMirchi wrote: »

Casually glancing at the Bug section of of this forum is to me rather depressing and causes occasional rage as it's rather useless. There is sadly very meager response of the issues presented.

I'm not at all sure how the internal bug reporting & tracking works in-game but using a rigid platform like the current Vanilla forum software is absolutely not an effective bug tracking strategy.

BixenteN7Akantor

Hey ! I got news !
Three other of my recently reported bugs have been closed because flagged as "duplicates"
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

DewiMorgan

While I personally believe that the quality of support has gone markedly downhill after the layoffs of support staff in 2023, I think your request would eat up support time for no reason, resulting in an overall lower quality of support for everyone.

I'd argue that it is right to let them save time by NOT responding personally to bug reports, so that they can spend the time saved on providing detailed support to those actually needing human support.

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I have always been detailling the location, what is the problem, how to reproduce it, how to fix i

For this, above all else, you're an angel. Reproduction steps are THE most important thing for a fix

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

The last straw that made me write this is discovering the bug report system is bot-run, I got a bug-report rejected because it is "a duplicate" which obviously would not have happened if a human read it...

You're that confident you were the only one to ever report that bug? It must have been very novel, what was it?

To me, that feels like the exact opposite of evidence that something is "bot-run" - it's a sign that a human did some legwork with your ticket, over and above merely closing it. To close a duplicate as a duplicate, rather than as a "thanks for the feedback", they had to find an associated ticket describing the same issue, link the two together, and then decide which ticket takes priority, and close the other. Typically, if your ticket adds anything extra to the issue, that info will also need to be copied over as an update to the main ticket. Even if not, the developer who picks up the ticket to work it will be able to see all the linked duplicate tickets, and can check through them for any extra clues (reliable reproduction steps!).

A ticket system can suggest that a ticket is a duplicate of another, based on keywords; and overworked or under-trained support staff might see a suggested dup and in a quick reading, believe it's a dup when it isn't. I see that a happen quite often in everyone's support systems. Humans can always make mistakes, just like automated systems.

Sadly, I fear that ESO support may now be handled by Microsoft support, and large companies always judge their front-line support people on how many tickets they get through, so they have to be fast, and with very little time to respond; this usually results in copy-paste responses that only vaguely relate to the problem at hand. It frankly sucks as an approach to metrics for support, equivalent to judging developers on lines of code written. It motivates all the wrong behaviors for quality support.

But even so, other than automated anti-spam protection, tickets don't get closed in any ticketing system I've ever seen without a human checking them over.

Sometimes, tickets can also get closed as dup when they're related. For example, if I report a terrain hole at one location, and you report another one nearby, the support engineer is wise to close the second ticket as a dup, and copy the new location info from there into the first ticket. That then means that whoever picks up the ticket can fix two problems for the cost of one: instead of two low-priority tickets, there's one, raised slightly in impact. If that happens a few dozen times, merging all the holes into one, then you end up with a reasonably high-impact ticket, which might even get worked.

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I literally just went to check the first bug I submited 2,5 years ago which is a hole in a wall in a delve in bloody Craglorn that probably dates back to 1.0, and it is STILL here !

Can't say how it works at ZOS, but most places, low-priority bug tickets can sit in the backlog for years/decades, because there are always more important bugs. Every now and then, through backlog grooming, the ones triaged to the bottom (like cosmetic terrain holes) that have been sitting there for a long time, are cleaned out as "WONTFIX" because that's just a more realistic status than "pending".

Bugs that tend to stick around longest are:
- those with no easy way to reproduce them;
- cosmetics;
- very low impact on people affected;
- very few people affected;
- those needing a huge refactor to fix.

A terrain hole seems to fall among the last four of those. I guess they might fix 'em if they're doing a large batch of terrain fixes in the same map, but fixing a single hole in the map is unlikely at best.

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I don't ask for the bugs to be fixed asap because they are listed by priority, but I just want to know if they have been put in the list of bugs to fix in the first place ! Not the "Your commentary has been received, thank you. *Ticket Closed*" ! A real answer please !!

Are you just asking for the phrasing of the ticket status to be changed from "Thanks for the feedback" to "Thanks for the bug report", or something more?

Because, if I understand you correctly, you seem to be asking for a personally-worded reply, in unique, different words, tailored specifically to your post, just so that you feel you have had a meaningful human interaction. Why? What extra thing could they say, beyond wasting the time of the support people trying to find new ways to rephrase "Thanks for the feedback, ticket closed"?

The easiest (read: only) way that each ticket could reasonably get a unique answer is for the support engineer to have a button "craft a customized AI answer to this ticket". This would still take a little extra time for them to check it over to make sure the AI didn't screw up, though, so would still be a net loss for everyone involved.

Take, for example, a ticket I logged, which was closed as a duplicate without a response: the Ogrim's charge attack in the Archive has a circular AOE marker instead of the long rectangular one indicating where they will charge, which they have everywhere else (maybe not actually a bug, as the attack is not along a fixed path, but rather always towards the player, but I reported it anyway).

An AI response could mean I'd get back "Thank you for your report about the shape of the ogrim's charge attack AOE marker being possibly incorrect in the Infinite Archive. This issue has already been reported. Ticket closed."

...But, other than wasting a bit of CPU power to generate, and my time to read, what exactly would such a "real answer" tell me, that I didn't already learn from the ticket's "Closed as duplicate" status? Nothing. It's the exact same response, just rephrased to sound more "human".

So, what would you want from a "real answer" to a bug report?

Servadei

I just gave up when I realized detailed reporting on game bugs does nothing but waste my time especially when I noticed how quickly the crown store gets fixed if anything is broken there.

ZOS_Lunar

Hello!

Just wanted to chime in here. For Feedback and Bug Report style tickets, these are not sent to our Support Team, but are sent to the development teams. This is why they don't receive a response. This helps us review all submissions quickly and get the information to the appropriate department.

Also, please be as detailed as possible when reporting! If you can include screenshots, or even better, video of something occurring, this greatly helps the teams when looking into these.

BixenteN7Akantor

DewiMorgan wrote: »

While I personally believe that the quality of support has gone markedly downhill after the layoffs of support staff in 2023, I think your request would eat up support time for no reason, resulting in an overall lower quality of support for everyone.

I'd argue that it is right to let them save time by NOT responding personally to bug reports, so that they can spend the time saved on providing detailed support to those actually needing human support.

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I have always been detailling the location, what is the problem, how to reproduce it, how to fix i

For this, above all else, you're an angel. Reproduction steps are THE most important thing for a fix

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

The last straw that made me write this is discovering the bug report system is bot-run, I got a bug-report rejected because it is "a duplicate" which obviously would not have happened if a human read it...

You're that confident you were the only one to ever report that bug? It must have been very novel, what was it?

To me, that feels like the exact opposite of evidence that something is "bot-run" - it's a sign that a human did some legwork with your ticket, over and above merely closing it. To close a duplicate as a duplicate, rather than as a "thanks for the feedback", they had to find an associated ticket describing the same issue, link the two together, and then decide which ticket takes priority, and close the other. Typically, if your ticket adds anything extra to the issue, that info will also need to be copied over as an update to the main ticket. Even if not, the developer who picks up the ticket to work it will be able to see all the linked duplicate tickets, and can check through them for any extra clues (reliable reproduction steps!).

A ticket system can suggest that a ticket is a duplicate of another, based on keywords; and overworked or under-trained support staff might see a suggested dup and in a quick reading, believe it's a dup when it isn't. I see that a happen quite often in everyone's support systems. Humans can always make mistakes, just like automated systems.

Sadly, I fear that ESO support may now be handled by Microsoft support, and large companies always judge their front-line support people on how many tickets they get through, so they have to be fast, and with very little time to respond; this usually results in copy-paste responses that only vaguely relate to the problem at hand. It frankly sucks as an approach to metrics for support, equivalent to judging developers on lines of code written. It motivates all the wrong behaviors for quality support.

But even so, other than automated anti-spam protection, tickets don't get closed in any ticketing system I've ever seen without a human checking them over.

Sometimes, tickets can also get closed as dup when they're related. For example, if I report a terrain hole at one location, and you report another one nearby, the support engineer is wise to close the second ticket as a dup, and copy the new location info from there into the first ticket. That then means that whoever picks up the ticket can fix two problems for the cost of one: instead of two low-priority tickets, there's one, raised slightly in impact. If that happens a few dozen times, merging all the holes into one, then you end up with a reasonably high-impact ticket, which might even get worked.

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I literally just went to check the first bug I submited 2,5 years ago which is a hole in a wall in a delve in bloody Craglorn that probably dates back to 1.0, and it is STILL here !

Can't say how it works at ZOS, but most places, low-priority bug tickets can sit in the backlog for years/decades, because there are always more important bugs. Every now and then, through backlog grooming, the ones triaged to the bottom (like cosmetic terrain holes) that have been sitting there for a long time, are cleaned out as "WONTFIX" because that's just a more realistic status than "pending".

Bugs that tend to stick around longest are:
- those with no easy way to reproduce them;
- cosmetics;
- very low impact on people affected;
- very few people affected;
- those needing a huge refactor to fix.

A terrain hole seems to fall among the last four of those. I guess they might fix 'em if they're doing a large batch of terrain fixes in the same map, but fixing a single hole in the map is unlikely at best.

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

I don't ask for the bugs to be fixed asap because they are listed by priority, but I just want to know if they have been put in the list of bugs to fix in the first place ! Not the "Your commentary has been received, thank you. *Ticket Closed*" ! A real answer please !!

Are you just asking for the phrasing of the ticket status to be changed from "Thanks for the feedback" to "Thanks for the bug report", or something more?

Because, if I understand you correctly, you seem to be asking for a personally-worded reply, in unique, different words, tailored specifically to your post, just so that you feel you have had a meaningful human interaction. Why? What extra thing could they say, beyond wasting the time of the support people trying to find new ways to rephrase "Thanks for the feedback, ticket closed"?

The easiest (read: only) way that each ticket could reasonably get a unique answer is for the support engineer to have a button "craft a customized AI answer to this ticket". This would still take a little extra time for them to check it over to make sure the AI didn't screw up, though, so would still be a net loss for everyone involved.

Take, for example, a ticket I logged, which was closed as a duplicate without a response: the Ogrim's charge attack in the Archive has a circular AOE marker instead of the long rectangular one indicating where they will charge, which they have everywhere else (maybe not actually a bug, as the attack is not along a fixed path, but rather always towards the player, but I reported it anyway).

An AI response could mean I'd get back "Thank you for your report about the shape of the ogrim's charge attack AOE marker being possibly incorrect in the Infinite Archive. This issue has already been reported. Ticket closed."

...But, other than wasting a bit of CPU power to generate, and my time to read, what exactly would such a "real answer" tell me, that I didn't already learn from the ticket's "Closed as duplicate" status? Nothing. It's the exact same response, just rephrased to sound more "human".

So, what would you want from a "real answer" to a bug report?

First thank you for the detailled answer.
Actually they fixed two bugs i reported (that also got reported here): The Necrom antiquities being on sale at the Gold Coast achievement furnishers and the waterfall sounds in many Telvanni indoor places without any water. But many months later.
All bug-reports tickets are closed-off by default.
The "duplicates" were indeed about bosses of the same place, but for different bugs.
Do you really believe the relatively hidden bug-report system that probably gets 10 bug reports a day is a problem to ZOS ?
For terrain bugs, i've seen terrain bugs emerging in an update being fixed in the next. Also every major update has the "Terrain fixes" and other stuff mentionning minor bugs being fixed, never in detail though.
For an answer I dunno, I just fell like talking to a wall. The priority list we both talk must have changed recently because we get less content and more QOL and bug fix updates (which I love btw), right ?

BixenteN7Akantor

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

Hello!

Just wanted to chime in here. For Feedback and Bug Report style tickets, these are not sent to our Support Team, but are sent to the development teams. This is why they don't receive a response. This helps us review all submissions quickly and get the information to the appropriate department.

Also, please be as detailed as possible when reporting! If you can include screenshots, or even better, video of something occurring, this greatly helps the teams when looking into these.

Thank you !!
Now, are the reports of the same delve flagged as "duplicates" merged into one bugfix request or they are really deleted ?

ghost_bg_ESO

over the years i have reported bunch of cosmetic/annoyances (from different accounts i play with) and have been surprised to see on live that someone bothered with them, as for "big" bugs reported from multiple people on pts i just presume they are too complex to be fixed for short time (though some have made comfy home under the rug)... and that slow cadence of content release team has cleared a bunch of bugs.

no idea for last 2 years(?) as i've been busy to stay on pts.

BuffNukem

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

Hello!

Just wanted to chime in here. For Feedback and Bug Report style tickets, these are not sent to our Support Team, but are sent to the development teams. This is why they don't receive a response. This helps us review all submissions quickly and get the information to the appropriate department.

Also, please be as detailed as possible when reporting! If you can include screenshots, or even better, video of something occurring, this greatly helps the teams when looking into these.

@ZOS_Lunar

Please help me understand, because I'm not sure what you are describing matches with the Bug Report UI I see in game:

• First I have to choose and Impact (Crash/Blocks Progress; Exploit; Impairs Functionality; Delays Progress; Cosmetic)
• Then one of 14 broad, but not all inclusive, Categories
• Then I'm given ONLY 128 Characters to actually name & describe the bugged item(s), explain how to replicate the issue, and offer up the a potential fix.
• And lastly I'm given a "Attach Screenshot" check box, that if checked, doesn't ever cause the UI to let you link an actual screenshot or video.

So please explain to me how I can "be as detailed as possible when reporting!"???

So to help illustrate, I'll give you one bug example that I have submitted multiple times over the 7+ years it has been in the game. There are 4 lorebooks located in King's Haven Pass delve in Summerset, specifically:

• "Naliara's Notes, Day 2"
• "Naliara's Notes, Day 8"
• "Naliara's Notes, Day 13"
• "Naliara's Notes, Day 18"

These lorebooks ONLY appear while you are on the Delve Quest: "Savage Truths". The lorebooks disappear as soon as someone in your group reads it and only the person that actually read it gets credit in their Eidetic Memory. Once a group completes the quest the lorebooks that group members didn't read themselves are lost forever and there currently is no post-quest location for these lorebooks.

So as I fill out a Bug report as described above I am forced to submit a ticket like this:

• Impact: Crash/Blocks Progress -- I can't complete my Eidetic Memory unless this bug is fixed and the other options don't fit
• Category: ??? (No category fits a problem with a lorebook well. Its not an inventory item/equipment. Its not a Text/Localization issue. It's not an Art/Graphics problem. etc...)
• Description: "Naliara's Notes, Day 2/8/13/18" lorebooks missing post-quest location. If 1 group member reads, the other group can't. -- That takes up ALL 128 available characters allowed! Unable to provide any more details in the space provided.
• Attached Screenshot: Checked -- But doesn't allow you to actually link any picture/video.

I would happily provide more information if a dev requested it, but to date I have never gotten a reply asking for any amplifying details. I have also posted details about this bug many times in the Bug section of the forums where I am not as limited in providing details like I am with the in game UI. After 7 years of many reports both in game and on the forums of a fairly simple bug to fix, this issue hasn't been addressed.

So I'll ask again, how can I better provide more details as you suggest? What am I missing or could do better?

Thanks!

BuffNukem

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It can be frustrating - and trust me when I say you’re not the only one. Lots of people used to report bugs when they are/were on PTS and then stopped because a significant portion of them still make it to live.

Castle Thorn last boss circle not moving has been a bug for 3 years and has had hundreds of bug reports - Rich even acknowledged the bug on Twitter (or maybe even a live stream?) ages ago and still remains to this day. It’s also evident a lot of newer things aren’t tested properly because when the boss was ported to the Infinite Archive the bug can now also occur there as well.

@ZOS_RichLambert Is this true?

I can confirm Rich was made aware of it during his livestream as I was the one who brought it to his attention in chat. At the time he took a note and said he would have his team take a look at it. That stream was 3 years ago.

DewiMorgan

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

All bug-reports tickets are closed-off by default.

Yep! The user-support ticket gets closed, as the information in it has been entered into the bug list on a separate system (I guess a Jira ticket, or whatever Jira-like system they use for issue tracking).

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

The "duplicates" were indeed about bosses of the same place, but for different bugs.

Ah, so you read "duplicate" to mean "they think I reported the same thing twice" rather than "they found a ticket reported by someone else, about the same issue"? That's understandable, yeah, but in support ticket systems, "duplicate" generally means a duplicate of the same issue from any user, systemwide. That is, it's a duplicate from the point of view of whoever fixes it, rather than whoever reports it.

(Though you might well also be right that some support dude just saw several bugs from you on the same theme and assumed they were all identical - hard to tell!)

Do you really believe the relatively hidden bug-report system that probably gets 10 bug reports a day is a problem to ZOS ?

I'm not sure they could make it any more visible. The /bug system ingame, and the support link in their website, are the same support system. If I remember right, there are also tutorials in the early game telling you to use it when you create your first character and everything. I'm not sure how they could make it more visible to people.

Far as I can tell, they deal with 5,000 to 20,000 tickets/day, which is actually pretty healthy for an MMO of this size, given that this count includes reports of spammers, bug reports, support requests, and even compliments (I try to send in a good few of those, too!)

Like I said, I do feel that the support has deteriorated, but that's kinda unavoidable with all the layoffs: 1900 from MS gaming in Jan, another 650 in Sept, apparently mostly "support and corporate" - which meant the support dept must have taken a HEAVY hit. I suspect these layoffs mean that their support was migrated/merged with Microsoft's support team, likely removing all of Zenimax' dedicated front-line support. This is honestly a tragedy: those guys were great, kindly and gently saved me from my own stupidity on several occasions, and were the origin for a very large part of the goodwill I feel towards the game.

For terrain bugs, I've seen terrain bugs emerging in an update being fixed in the next. Also every major update has the "Terrain fixes" and other stuff mentioning minor bugs being fixed, never in detail though.

Yes, I tend to see them do a lot of them getting done all in a batch, especially shortly after release for new zones, so it's an efficient use of the developers' time. I don't remember when I last saw a batch that did anything with Craglorn, though: I guess the bug reports for it dried up, so it's hard to justify fixing the few that get reported?

For an answer I dunno, I just fell like talking to a wall.

Yeah, I can totally understand that I feel the same at the moment with trying to get support for the "Account Code" system not working.

I mean, for bug reports (and for spammer reports, and compliments) I kinda *expect* a cookiecutter response, as those don't need personal responses, and I'd rather they were just hitting the "forward" button on those and moving on. But putting in support requests that don't get support nowadays, and instead get the kind of impersonal copy-paste-from-the-wiki response that I'd expect from Yahoo/Google/Microsoft... oof. That's where I can really feel the change

The priority list we both talk must have changed recently because we get less content and more QOL and bug fix updates (which I love btw), right ?

Ok, yep, you have me figured out: I love those kinda updates too! I know people grumble about there being "no new content" for those updates, but to me, they are the best ones I think traditionally they've allowed themselves one a year? I always look forward to them.

katanagirl1

DewiMorgan wrote: »

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

All bug-reports tickets are closed-off by default.

Yep! The user-support ticket gets closed, as the information in it has been entered into the bug list on a separate system (I guess a Jira ticket, or whatever Jira-like system they use for issue tracking).

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

The "duplicates" were indeed about bosses of the same place, but for different bugs.

Ah, so you read "duplicate" to mean "they think I reported the same thing twice" rather than "they found a ticket reported by someone else, about the same issue"? That's understandable, yeah, but in support ticket systems, "duplicate" generally means a duplicate of the same issue from any user, systemwide. That is, it's a duplicate from the point of view of whoever fixes it, rather than whoever reports it.

(Though you might well also be right that some support dude just saw several bugs from you on the same theme and assumed they were all identical - hard to tell!)

Do you really believe the relatively hidden bug-report system that probably gets 10 bug reports a day is a problem to ZOS ?

I'm not sure they could make it any more visible. The /bug system ingame, and the support link in their website, are the same support system. If I remember right, there are also tutorials in the early game telling you to use it when you create your first character and everything. I'm not sure how they could make it more visible to people.

Far as I can tell, they deal with 5,000 to 20,000 tickets/day, which is actually pretty healthy for an MMO of this size, given that this count includes reports of spammers, bug reports, support requests, and even compliments (I try to send in a good few of those, too!)

Like I said, I do feel that the support has deteriorated, but that's kinda unavoidable with all the layoffs: 1900 from MS gaming in Jan, another 650 in Sept, apparently mostly "support and corporate" - which meant the support dept must have taken a HEAVY hit. I suspect these layoffs mean that their support was migrated/merged with Microsoft's support team, likely removing all of Zenimax' dedicated front-line support. This is honestly a tragedy: those guys were great, kindly and gently saved me from my own stupidity on several occasions, and were the origin for a very large part of the goodwill I feel towards the game.

For terrain bugs, I've seen terrain bugs emerging in an update being fixed in the next. Also every major update has the "Terrain fixes" and other stuff mentioning minor bugs being fixed, never in detail though.

Yes, I tend to see them do a lot of them getting done all in a batch, especially shortly after release for new zones, so it's an efficient use of the developers' time. I don't remember when I last saw a batch that did anything with Craglorn, though: I guess the bug reports for it dried up, so it's hard to justify fixing the few that get reported?

For an answer I dunno, I just fell like talking to a wall.

Yeah, I can totally understand that I feel the same at the moment with trying to get support for the "Account Code" system not working.

I mean, for bug reports (and for spammer reports, and compliments) I kinda *expect* a cookiecutter response, as those don't need personal responses, and I'd rather they were just hitting the "forward" button on those and moving on. But putting in support requests that don't get support nowadays, and instead get the kind of impersonal copy-paste-from-the-wiki response that I'd expect from Yahoo/Google/Microsoft... oof. That's where I can really feel the change

The priority list we both talk must have changed recently because we get less content and more QOL and bug fix updates (which I love btw), right ?

Ok, yep, you have me figured out: I love those kinda updates too! I know people grumble about there being "no new content" for those updates, but to me, they are the best ones I think traditionally they've allowed themselves one a year? I always look forward to them.

I have heard the Attach a Screenshot option uses the last one you took by default, though I have no way of knowing that for sure.

DemonicGoat

BuffNukem wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It can be frustrating - and trust me when I say you’re not the only one. Lots of people used to report bugs when they are/were on PTS and then stopped because a significant portion of them still make it to live.

Castle Thorn last boss circle not moving has been a bug for 3 years and has had hundreds of bug reports - Rich even acknowledged the bug on Twitter (or maybe even a live stream?) ages ago and still remains to this day. It’s also evident a lot of newer things aren’t tested properly because when the boss was ported to the Infinite Archive the bug can now also occur there as well.

@ZOS_RichLambert Is this true?

I can confirm Rich was made aware of it during his livestream as I was the one who brought it to his attention in chat. At the time he took a note and said he would have his team take a look at it. That stream was 3 years ago.

I asked @ZOS_RichLambert ,.. Maybe there is nuance or context as to why nothing has been seemingly done about it and he would appreciate the opportunity to connect with the community.

Avran_Sylt

DemonicGoat wrote: »

BuffNukem wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It can be frustrating - and trust me when I say you’re not the only one. Lots of people used to report bugs when they are/were on PTS and then stopped because a significant portion of them still make it to live.

Castle Thorn last boss circle not moving has been a bug for 3 years and has had hundreds of bug reports - Rich even acknowledged the bug on Twitter (or maybe even a live stream?) ages ago and still remains to this day. It’s also evident a lot of newer things aren’t tested properly because when the boss was ported to the Infinite Archive the bug can now also occur there as well.

@ZOS_RichLambert Is this true?

I can confirm Rich was made aware of it during his livestream as I was the one who brought it to his attention in chat. At the time he took a note and said he would have his team take a look at it. That stream was 3 years ago.

I asked @ZOS_RichLambert ,.. Maybe there is nuance or context as to why nothing has been seemingly done about it and he would appreciate the opportunity to connect with the community.

When I started out I did some bug reports of the Morrowind expansion about floating objects and the like. (Still there, not concerned)

I then entered the tech field, in this case with QA for a website company (that is paltry in comparison to something like Zenimax I'd assume).

Literally it comes down to team bandwidth issues and if tracing and rectifying asset issues are a priority over something like setting up more in-depth code for upcoming changes, dealing with other posts that are non-TOS before sending info, if the art team is diversified enough to do something themselves. (hopefully the company provides some cross-functional training courses, mayhap with this union that could be a possible expense).

In essence: Making the change for these small existing art assets, needing to re-align with the given environment, needs to be weighed against an existing schedule without the need for overtime.

That being said, we could always try to petition against the ZoS employee union to seek some mandatory overtime for these issues. It could lead to what you want, but the grip would need to be tighter to make sure they get done what needs to be done.

So as always: Vote with your wallet!

maboleth

I still report from time to time, especially if it doesn't require much explaining and is obvious. I stopped making those long, detailed reports.

Though I can tell that previously they did tend to fix all quest-related bugs that impaired/blocked progress. Doings quests nowadays should be straightforward, especially in base/dlc zones that have been out for +2 years.

As for all of those terrain bugs and everything... they take longest to fix and and are only addressed, if ever, in those big updates that happen 3-4x a year.

Ulvich

There is a quest in Southern Molabal Tor that I have been reporting for over 10 years. The quest shows up my map, but the quest giver is nowhere to be found. Every once in while I go back searching for them only to meet the same results.
This is the only overland quest I have left to do, and it can't be done.

The quest in questing is called: The Soul Trap.

fizl101

Ulvich wrote: »

There is a quest in Southern Molabal Tor that I have been reporting for over 10 years. The quest shows up my map, but the quest giver is nowhere to be found. Every once in while I go back searching for them only to meet the same results.
This is the only overland quest I have left to do, and it can't be done.

The quest in questing is called: The Soul Trap.

You could try this as a workaround(found on reddit)

redlink1979

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

(...) none of the bugs I reported were ever fixed ! (...)

I reported a few bugs so far, and I keep reporting them, and I was glad to see the dev team fixed some of them including the placement of the lorebooks in the Cyrodiil's scroll temples.

Ulvich

fizl101 wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

There is a quest in Southern Molabal Tor that I have been reporting for over 10 years. The quest shows up my map, but the quest giver is nowhere to be found. Every once in while I go back searching for them only to meet the same results.
This is the only overland quest I have left to do, and it can't be done.

The quest in questing is called: The Soul Trap.

You could try this as a workaround(found on reddit)

I will most definitely give this a try. Since I have multiple accounts with multiple computers I can do it myself. It would be really great to do this final quest after 10 years.
I really appreciated the feedback.

ZOS_Lunar

BuffNukem wrote: »

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

Hello!

Just wanted to chime in here. For Feedback and Bug Report style tickets, these are not sent to our Support Team, but are sent to the development teams. This is why they don't receive a response. This helps us review all submissions quickly and get the information to the appropriate department.

Also, please be as detailed as possible when reporting! If you can include screenshots, or even better, video of something occurring, this greatly helps the teams when looking into these.

@ZOS_Lunar

Please help me understand, because I'm not sure what you are describing matches with the Bug Report UI I see in game:

• First I have to choose and Impact (Crash/Blocks Progress; Exploit; Impairs Functionality; Delays Progress; Cosmetic)
• Then one of 14 broad, but not all inclusive, Categories
• Then I'm given ONLY 128 Characters to actually name & describe the bugged item(s), explain how to replicate the issue, and offer up the a potential fix.
• And lastly I'm given a "Attach Screenshot" check box, that if checked, doesn't ever cause the UI to let you link an actual screenshot or video.

So please explain to me how I can "be as detailed as possible when reporting!"???

So to help illustrate, I'll give you one bug example that I have submitted multiple times over the 7+ years it has been in the game. There are 4 lorebooks located in King's Haven Pass delve in Summerset, specifically:

• "Naliara's Notes, Day 2"
• "Naliara's Notes, Day 8"
• "Naliara's Notes, Day 13"
• "Naliara's Notes, Day 18"

These lorebooks ONLY appear while you are on the Delve Quest: "Savage Truths". The lorebooks disappear as soon as someone in your group reads it and only the person that actually read it gets credit in their Eidetic Memory. Once a group completes the quest the lorebooks that group members didn't read themselves are lost forever and there currently is no post-quest location for these lorebooks.

So as I fill out a Bug report as described above I am forced to submit a ticket like this:

• Impact: Crash/Blocks Progress -- I can't complete my Eidetic Memory unless this bug is fixed and the other options don't fit
• Category: ??? (No category fits a problem with a lorebook well. Its not an inventory item/equipment. Its not a Text/Localization issue. It's not an Art/Graphics problem. etc...)
• Description: "Naliara's Notes, Day 2/8/13/18" lorebooks missing post-quest location. If 1 group member reads, the other group can't. -- That takes up ALL 128 available characters allowed! Unable to provide any more details in the space provided.
• Attached Screenshot: Checked -- But doesn't allow you to actually link any picture/video.

I would happily provide more information if a dev requested it, but to date I have never gotten a reply asking for any amplifying details. I have also posted details about this bug many times in the Bug section of the forums where I am not as limited in providing details like I am with the in game UI. After 7 years of many reports both in game and on the forums of a fairly simple bug to fix, this issue hasn't been addressed.

So I'll ask again, how can I better provide more details as you suggest? What am I missing or could do better?

Thanks!

Hi! For more detailed reports, we suggest putting in a report through our help site. The ones in game are of a more limited scope, and the "attach screenshot" uses what is currently displayed on screen. Something like what you're mentioning would be better reported through our help site due to length, and you can attach additional screenshots or video.

If the issue is specifically with a quest, you can use the in-game help menu for assistance and not just reporting. This will ensure our support agent will receive all the information they need to try and help you.

If you are playing on PlayStation or Xbox:

• Open your quest journal from the Console Menu
• Select the quest you need help with and press the Options button ([Y] on Xbox/ [Triangle] on PlayStation), then select Get Help
• Select the relevant category and provide details in the description box, then click Submit

If you are playing on PC/Mac:

• Open your quest journal by pressing [J], make sure the Quest tab is selected.
• Right click on the quest you need help with and click Get Help
• Select the category and provide details in the description box, then click Submit

StihlReign

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

Hi! For more detailed reports, we suggest putting in a report through our help site. The ones in game are of a more limited scope, and the "attach screenshot" uses what is currently displayed on screen. Something like what you're mentioning would be better reported through our help site due to length, and you can attach additional screenshots or video.

If the issue is specifically with a quest, you can use the in-game help menu for assistance and not just reporting. This will ensure our support agent will receive all the information they need to try and help you.

If you are playing on PlayStation or Xbox:

• Open your quest journal from the Console Menu
• Select the quest you need help with and press the Options button ([Y] on Xbox/ [Triangle] on PlayStation), then select Get Help
• Select the relevant category and provide details in the description box, then click Submit

If you are playing on PC/Mac:

• Open your quest journal by pressing [J], make sure the Quest tab is selected.
• Right click on the quest you need help with and click Get Help
• Select the category and provide details in the description box, then click Submit

How awesome would this be as the bug info popup in game (with some very light tweaking).

Ulvich

Ulvich wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

There is a quest in Southern Molabal Tor that I have been reporting for over 10 years. The quest shows up my map, but the quest giver is nowhere to be found. Every once in while I go back searching for them only to meet the same results.
This is the only overland quest I have left to do, and it can't be done.

The quest in questing is called: The Soul Trap.

You could try this as a workaround(found on reddit)

I will most definitely give this a try. Since I have multiple accounts with multiple computers I can do it myself. It would be really great to do this final quest after 10 years.
I really appreciated the feedback.

Just an update. I tried this with 2 accounts as I mentioned. It worked. I got in and completed the quest. Now I have done every overland quest in the entire game in every zone.
Thank you so much. You're awesome.