Why can Healer Tank freaking hold a relic, walk into an enemy spawn, and tank all damage thrown!!!!!

Avran_Sylt

Just had an enemy tank in an 8v8 walk into and repeatedly steal the relic and heal all the damage thrown at them!!!!!

WHAT IS THIS GAME!

Avran_Sylt

This game has a HEALING PROBLEM

fluffybunny

This is probably not a defect but a feature of ESO PvP

StarOfElyon

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Just had an enemy tank in an 8v8 walk into and repeatedly steal the relic and heal all the damage thrown at them!!!!!

WHAT IS THIS GAME!

It's a real problem when the healer is also a tank. It's also bad when the tank is a healer. It's even worse when both are on the same team.

Artim_X

The PvP balance is rubbish atm. Used to be able to kill peeps when you build for damage rip🙏

Sleepsin

Didn't you watch the most resent stream? That's the meta playstyle.

Icy_Waffles

Is the relic no longer bashable?

moosegod

If you didn't know, you can bash an enemy to interrupt them picking up the relic. You can literally just sit there and bash these tanks all day, they can't damage you so its not like they're useful relic grabbers.

The real problem is when these tanks are guarding a relic. I literally can not kill them alone and they can block/bash me all day long cause sustain is so easy to achieve now. Its such a troll lol. CtR is my least favourite mode to play because of this sort of gameplay.

Avran_Sylt

moosegod wrote: »

If you didn't know, you can bash an enemy to interrupt them picking up the relic. You can literally just sit there and bash these tanks all day, they can't damage you so its not like they're useful relic grabbers.

The real problem is when these tanks are guarding a relic. I literally can not kill them alone and they can block/bash me all day long cause sustain is so easy to achieve now. Its such a troll lol. CtR is my least favourite mode to play because of this sort of gameplay.

I’d need to reorient my build around guarding the relic and being in melee range. In this instance I had died while attempting to grab the relic (I’m squishier and was killed by the very same healer tank who was just until recently guarding their own relic). They walked over, our team was pushed back to spawn, they had plethora of DK’s just CCing anyone that got close while their heal tank just walked up and grabbed it even with 3 or 4 people attacking and following them later. They did this 4 or so times in succession.

It was aggravating to say the least since we had gotten three captures early and it just felt like they were playing with their food having fun corralling us in spawn until they felt the need to win.

Thumbless_Bot

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

moosegod wrote: »

If you didn't know, you can bash an enemy to interrupt them picking up the relic. You can literally just sit there and bash these tanks all day, they can't damage you so its not like they're useful relic grabbers.

The real problem is when these tanks are guarding a relic. I literally can not kill them alone and they can block/bash me all day long cause sustain is so easy to achieve now. Its such a troll lol. CtR is my least favourite mode to play because of this sort of gameplay.

I’d need to reorient my build around guarding the relic and being in melee range. In this instance I had died while attempting to grab the relic (I’m squishier and was killed by the very same healer tank who was just until recently guarding their own relic). They walked over, our team was pushed back to spawn, they had plethora of DK’s just CCing anyone that got close while their heal tank just walked up and grabbed it even with 3 or 4 people attacking and following them later. They did this 4 or so times in succession.

It was aggravating to say the least since we had gotten three captures early and it just felt like they were playing with their food having fun corralling us in spawn until they felt the need to win.

Yes, the new two team format will require updates to some builds, especially those that like to play defense on relic or stand on flags/hold the chaos ball. That should be somewhat fun, hopefully.

BXR_Lonestar

This can be overcome with some coordinated attacks + pulls/stuns/fears/negates....

Even in 8 man content, if you have a 4 man group, you can coordinate this kind of attack and take them down.

Avran_Sylt

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This can be overcome with some coordinated attacks + pulls/stuns/fears/negates....

Even in 8 man content, if you have a 4 man group, you can coordinate this kind of attack and take them down.

Well this was solo 8v8.

Not only that but prohibitive costs on gearing and the inability to access the armory in BG’s doesn’t help either when it comes to impromptu organization during the searching/ready phase.

BXR_Lonestar

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This can be overcome with some coordinated attacks + pulls/stuns/fears/negates....

Even in 8 man content, if you have a 4 man group, you can coordinate this kind of attack and take them down.

Well this was solo 8v8.

Not only that but prohibitive costs on gearing and the inability to access the armory in BG’s doesn’t help either when it comes to impromptu organization during the searching/ready phase.

Honestly, in PVP, if you role solo (especially in BG) your experience is going to be a mixed bag of nuts, and many of those nuts are going to be rotten. But I also think that this is part of the design flaw of the new 8v8 in that it allows for partial coordination, since you can bring your own 4 man, and any coordinated group vs. an uncoordinated group is going to dominate.

Overall though, I don't think tank/heals in PVP is out of balance. I play both roles, and they have roles to play in various kinds of fights. Its a tradeoff, because you give up damage for survivability - and if I get caught out there alone and by myself, I'm pretty much screwed.

tsaescishoeshiner

Cross-healing or tanky metas aren't responsible for someone making a troll unkillable tank build, which has always been possible. But it's always annoying lol.

The issues with cross-healing and tanky characters is more 1vXers and groups who can be unkillable while having enough damage to kill others.

Every patch has had troll tank builds, some more than others. It's the only way some players know how to contribute to a BG, and it's effective to win the objectives, and I agree that it's frustrating lol. Halving Health Recovery and nerfing certain solo tank sets has made it tougher, but it's still doable a lot of different ways from what I understand, so it's not like nerfing just one skill or set, but some core combat mechanic.

That said, 9 of the the 30 threads on the Combat forums are authored by one person at the moment, and people can totally make whatever threads they want, but at some point, non-detailed complaints about individual matches aren't that constructive when there are other threads detailing the same topic.

Necrotech_Master

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Is the relic no longer bashable?

that does work unless the player interacting with it is using an immovable pot

and even if you bash them they could always try to steal it again after you bashed because congratz you just gave them cc immunity for 7 seconds minimum

Avran_Sylt

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This can be overcome with some coordinated attacks + pulls/stuns/fears/negates....

Even in 8 man content, if you have a 4 man group, you can coordinate this kind of attack and take them down.

Well this was solo 8v8.

Not only that but prohibitive costs on gearing and the inability to access the armory in BG’s doesn’t help either when it comes to impromptu organization during the searching/ready phase.

Honestly, in PVP, if you role solo (especially in BG) your experience is going to be a mixed bag of nuts, and many of those nuts are going to be rotten. But I also think that this is part of the design flaw of the new 8v8 in that it allows for partial coordination, since you can bring your own 4 man, and any coordinated group vs. an uncoordinated group is going to dominate.

Overall though, I don't think tank/heals in PVP is out of balance. I play both roles, and they have roles to play in various kinds of fights. Its a tradeoff, because you give up damage for survivability - and if I get caught out there alone and by myself, I'm pretty much screwed.

I agree to a point.

The thing about trading damage for survivability does hold true, in duels.

But BG's isn't just about duels. Some matches can be won even without dealing damage, so long as you hold zone control, which survivability favors.

It's why you can't cloak while carrying a relic.

It's why the chaosball deals ramping damage (I would assume to limit tank/healing builds, but it's possible it was only implemented as a thematic element and wasn't actually the result of good design planning).

In this case, so long as a player is able to grab the relic, if they're built for a 1vX loadout, they can't be stopped. Moreso an edge-case for solo play, maybe more of an issue in group play. Not sure quite what could be implemented to address that certain scenario of unending sustain and glacial movement towards the base.

Avran_Sylt

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Is the relic no longer bashable?

that does work unless the player interacting with it is using an immovable pot

and even if you bash them they could always try to steal it again after you bashed because congratz you just gave them cc immunity for 7 seconds minimum

Nah, they made the Relic Grab bash-able regardless of any CC immunities. So long as you sit next to an enemy and bash them, they can never pick up a relic. (typically you then just slap a tank on your home relic and they just sit around and slap anyone that tries to pickup a relic, boring but optimal play).

Usually the relic only gets grabbed if you're able to slam the enemy spawn or the whole team is focused on impromptu deathmatch elsewhere on the map/ homebase tank wasn't tanky enough.

Necrotech_Master

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Is the relic no longer bashable?

that does work unless the player interacting with it is using an immovable pot

and even if you bash them they could always try to steal it again after you bashed because congratz you just gave them cc immunity for 7 seconds minimum

Nah, they made the Relic Grab bash-able regardless of any CC immunities. So long as you sit next to an enemy and bash them, they can never pick up a relic. (typically you then just slap a tank on your home relic and they just sit around and slap anyone that tries to pickup a relic, boring but optimal play).

Usually the relic only gets grabbed if you're able to slam the enemy spawn or the whole team is focused on impromptu deathmatch elsewhere on the map/ homebase tank wasn't tanky enough.

if they changed it so grabbing the relic is not immune to any kind of cc immunity, then why complaining if you can sit on them and keep bashing them preventing the relic grab?

if thats the case as you said the only way you would get the relic would be one of 3 cases:

1. person guarding relic was weak and you killed them
2. nobody was guarding relic to begin with (or not paying attention at the time)
3. your team made a full push to the relic and overwhelmed enemy team to grab relic

this post seems incredibly contradictory to your first post, about how a tank was just going in and grabbing the relic lol, if its bashable regardless of immunities, they should never be able to get the relic if you have someone guarding it

Avran_Sylt

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Is the relic no longer bashable?

that does work unless the player interacting with it is using an immovable pot

and even if you bash them they could always try to steal it again after you bashed because congratz you just gave them cc immunity for 7 seconds minimum

Nah, they made the Relic Grab bash-able regardless of any CC immunities. So long as you sit next to an enemy and bash them, they can never pick up a relic. (typically you then just slap a tank on your home relic and they just sit around and slap anyone that tries to pickup a relic, boring but optimal play).

Usually the relic only gets grabbed if you're able to slam the enemy spawn or the whole team is focused on impromptu deathmatch elsewhere on the map/ homebase tank wasn't tanky enough.

if they changed it so grabbing the relic is not immune to any kind of cc immunity, then why complaining if you can sit on them and keep bashing them preventing the relic grab?

if thats the case as you said the only way you would get the relic would be one of 3 cases:

1. person guarding relic was weak and you killed them
2. nobody was guarding relic to begin with (or not paying attention at the time)
3. your team made a full push to the relic and overwhelmed enemy team to grab relic

this post seems incredibly contradictory to your first post, about how a tank was just going in and grabbing the relic lol, if its bashable regardless of immunities, they should never be able to get the relic if you have someone guarding it

I'll be honest in that this post was created in a reactionary moment. I actively kinda hate it as it's unrefined and whiny. But I'm not going to edit it.

The scenarios in which I described the relic could be taken are assuming people are playing in a sporting manner.

This was not the case for the match in which resulted in this post.

Their team had us spawn-camped and were farming us, not bothering to grab the relic.

It wasn't until their home-base tank started walking our relic back and forth to their base that the game actually progressed. My guess is they got bored of sitting around at their relic.

And even when our team focused on that tank, we never did much damage to them. Then again I don't recall many stuns or CC thrown in to match attrition, but I still think it's kinda problematic that a character can shrug off the damage of at least 4 people targeting them as they walk and heal all the way back to their base, 4 times in a row.

Couldn't really take advantage of their tank being away from their relic either, since their tank had our relic (and weren't going down). So even if we were able to knab their relic we couldn't really do much with it since our relic wasn't back.

Just an overall pain of a match and a hot-headed post.

Necrotech_Master

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Is the relic no longer bashable?

that does work unless the player interacting with it is using an immovable pot

and even if you bash them they could always try to steal it again after you bashed because congratz you just gave them cc immunity for 7 seconds minimum

Nah, they made the Relic Grab bash-able regardless of any CC immunities. So long as you sit next to an enemy and bash them, they can never pick up a relic. (typically you then just slap a tank on your home relic and they just sit around and slap anyone that tries to pickup a relic, boring but optimal play).

Usually the relic only gets grabbed if you're able to slam the enemy spawn or the whole team is focused on impromptu deathmatch elsewhere on the map/ homebase tank wasn't tanky enough.

if they changed it so grabbing the relic is not immune to any kind of cc immunity, then why complaining if you can sit on them and keep bashing them preventing the relic grab?

if thats the case as you said the only way you would get the relic would be one of 3 cases:

1. person guarding relic was weak and you killed them
2. nobody was guarding relic to begin with (or not paying attention at the time)
3. your team made a full push to the relic and overwhelmed enemy team to grab relic

this post seems incredibly contradictory to your first post, about how a tank was just going in and grabbing the relic lol, if its bashable regardless of immunities, they should never be able to get the relic if you have someone guarding it

I'll be honest in that this post was created in a reactionary moment. I actively kinda hate it as it's unrefined and whiny. But I'm not going to edit it.

The scenarios in which I described the relic could be taken are assuming people are playing in a sporting manner.

This was not the case for the match in which resulted in this post.

Their team had us spawn-camped and were farming us, not bothering to grab the relic.

It wasn't until their home-base tank started walking our relic back and forth to their base that the game actually progressed. My guess is they got bored of sitting around at their relic.

And even when our team focused on that tank, we never did much damage to them. Then again I don't recall many stuns or CC thrown in to match attrition, but I still think it's kinda problematic that a character can shrug off the damage of at least 4 people targeting them as they walk and heal all the way back to their base, 4 times in a row.

Couldn't really take advantage of their tank being away from their relic either, since their tank had our relic (and weren't going down). So even if we were able to knab their relic we couldn't really do much with it since our relic wasn't back.

Just an overall pain of a match and a hot-headed post.

makes sense lol

i mean to be fair, i find it frustrating too when i feel like i can barely hurt anyone, ive basically focused my build on mostly burst dmg with a few dots for pressure, and the rest trying to add survivability (though im certainly no tank)

so i get where your coming from, and theres been numerous posts out there about how balance is awful right now (TTK is just too high in general)