Suggestion: Rework the u50 campaign

Alchimiste1

Just an idea I want to throw out there.

These are my personal observations from playing on the PC NA server, but it seems that the pvp community isn't really growing. It seems like more people are leaving and for a while that was only offset by the amount of console transfers incoming. I think it would be a good idea for ZoS to spend a bit of their time reworking the u50 campaign to get newer players more interested in pvp.

I think one of the main reason the current u50 Campaign died is because there were a lot of permanent rerollers with OP gear that they farmed or kept from their previous characters. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to reroll, but I am suggesting the following.


1. Cap the low-level battles scaling buff of all gear to blue quality. (this is pretty close in numbers to vet GOLD quality items and is much cheaper for new players to acquire).
2. Sell full sets of some decent crafted pvp gear for AP at u50 levels. (Full set of blue quality nma, wretched vitality, fortified brass, heartland's conq etc. every 10 or so levels.)
3. Provide Good rewards for low levels to visit cyro. (things that decrease the research time of traits for gear/weapons. Some gold materials for upgrading armor etc.)

Basically, just provide incentives for new players to begin their pvp journey and when they are ready then can swap over to the vet campaign.

Necrotech_Master

ive never played in the sub 50 camp, but personally the thing that i think would give the most balance and freedom for learning experience is basically give everyone a forced "torc of last ayleid king" effect that nullifies all set gear and gives some flat bonuses

then all the players would need to do is upkeep their armor/weapons to their levels

there wouldnt be any say cheesing low level monster sets and such, as it is possible to get the IC monster sets sub lvl 50, if you are sub lvl 50 and participate in killing a district monster that drops a helm for example (ive gotten a lvl 42 xoal helm before)

xylena_lazarow

Convert it to "under x cp" like 300 or 600 or something so actual new players have somewhere to learn, and time to do it before getting thrown into the fire against mega tryhards with years experience. The whole "under 50" thing is an outdated relic from the VR days before cp anyway, when 1-50 was an extremely long process.

darvaria

Why? Almost no one plays U50 now. And it is unlikely to revive as the other main campaign gh is barely hanging on.

kyle.wilson

They need to just get rid of the 0-50 levels and fold that into the cp grind.
There’s not much of a reason with 1 Tamriel for levels to exist. They mark a massive barrier for new players to overcome.

Then make a no cp campaign that combines what was under 50 and the no cp.

Sluggy

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Convert it to "under x cp" like 300 or 600 or something so actual new players have somewhere to learn, and time to do it before getting thrown into the fire against mega tryhards with years experience. The whole "under 50" thing is an outdated relic from the VR days before cp anyway, when 1-50 was an extremely long process.

The downside there is that I doubt there are enough people regularly coming in to Cyrodiil to make that work. New players will likely wonder around the map for three hours and still end up facing off against that one random tryhard that made an alt account just to find these kinds of fights - assuming the new player actually sticks around for three hours in an empty map painted the wrong color.

I'd rather just see it go. It's not like it's has a purpose since One Tamriel and the level scaling. If they really wanted a training campaign then they should have left the no-cp campaign no-proc and removed the <50 campaign altogether. At least that way CP and gear disparities are much less of a factor and people that enjoyed it could still play there as regulars while potentially helping new players learn the ropes.

No amount of in-game training wheels is going to help someone new to Cyrodiil deal with veteran opponents that they will face once they graduate and they are much better off being in a stable (well, as stable as we can call it now) environment where it's at least possible for more experienced players to try to guide them. People either end up liking it or they don't and I don't see how an even more gimped population would help.

MincMincMinc

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Just an idea I want to throw out there.

These are my personal observations from playing on the PC NA server, but it seems that the pvp community isn't really growing. It seems like more people are leaving and for a while that was only offset by the amount of console transfers incoming. I think it would be a good idea for ZoS to spend a bit of their time reworking the u50 campaign to get newer players more interested in pvp.

I think one of the main reason the current u50 Campaign died is because there were a lot of permanent rerollers with OP gear that they farmed or kept from their previous characters. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to reroll, but I am suggesting the following.


1. Cap the low-level battles scaling buff of all gear to blue quality. (this is pretty close in numbers to vet GOLD quality items and is much cheaper for new players to acquire).
2. Sell full sets of some decent crafted pvp gear for AP at u50 levels. (Full set of blue quality nma, wretched vitality, fortified brass, heartland's conq etc. every 10 or so levels.)
3. Provide Good rewards for low levels to visit cyro. (things that decrease the research time of traits for gear/weapons. Some gold materials for upgrading armor etc.)

Basically, just provide incentives for new players to begin their pvp journey and when they are ready then can swap over to the vet campaign.

Alch I would say the exact opposite. The reroll players were the only thing keeping the U50 campaign running. Cyrodil was never designed to function with low pop. Even slightly unbalanced factions is enough for cyrodil to not function. U50 was healthiest when each faction had a functioning pug guild. AD had several over the years with AA, Lahma's, GoNB, Janessa's. Where EP didn't have a guild since BWB and saw a dying population. DC had a few, with gabriebe and such. However DC really only had a big pop during holiday weeks or summer break where they would hold the map.

New and reroll players simply wouldn't play when the map was unbalanced. The map became unbalanced when one pug guild was the only one online and flipped the map. As the reroll guilds left and died out the server fell apart functionally, brand new players simply wouldn't run things since they didn't know how. Unlike years ago with 10x the playerbase, new players can nolonger watch what the better players are doing to learn.

It got bad enough there were many occasions where I would have to go flip the map back taking keeps myself or with one of my guildies to even out the map so people would log in. Which got old real quick having to swap between factions to balance the map on u50 characters. All just to have one guild like AA only log in at the same time with 30 players to roll the map again and log off since the other factions didnt have an opposing guild.

As far as solutions to the problem we are in there are two paths forward. Either salvage the current non functioning system or rework the pvp servers functionally.

1. Try to salvage the current server layout. What you would want to do is improve the introduction quest combined with gear vendors. These vendors cant be random loot roll and should sell gear that is guaranteed set piece, rarity, and trait (For gear vendors to work, zos has to rework scaling since overland set weapons do not scale == 1000-2000 less WD compared to a crafted weapon). Really these vendors could just sell all of the crafted gear as purple with impen.
2. Restructuring. The other option is more nuclear and should probably happen anyways. You would rip the bandaid off and restructure the servers such that you have two 30 day campaigns only. One being a 30 day CP campaign, the other being a nocp campaign. Players under ~800cp are forced to only play in the nocp campaign. During this time you could give them a bonus ap gain on their account that doesn't affect leaderboard.

Cyrodil has its own rework issues to combat the issues with declingin population which I also have been talking about in another thread LINK

Mik195

PVP takes work so if you want more people to try, make it easier. Maybe spin up a new campaign that let's you pick between 3 or 4 different PVP builds. Then at a very basic level, players optimized for PVP won't have such a huge advantage and skill becomes more of a factor and people can find fun in PVP without a huge commitment.

Then if people can graduate to full PVP and experiment with what skills/sets work best for them.

MincMincMinc

Mik195 wrote: »

PVP takes work so if you want more people to try, make it easier. Maybe spin up a new campaign that let's you pick between 3 or 4 different PVP builds. Then at a very basic level, players optimized for PVP won't have such a huge advantage and skill becomes more of a factor and people can find fun in PVP without a huge commitment.

Then if people can graduate to full PVP and experiment with what skills/sets work best for them.

Generally this is why people liked to reroll in u50. Only a few builds worked or were viable. No procs, no dlc meta, no dlc skill lines, no monster sets, no arena weapons, no dungeon sets. 99% of people just used crafted gear because that is all that worked. Yes some people had asylum weapons, but they couldn't be used for damage in u50 because the damage value of the weapons didn't work. Only trifood worked in u50 aswell.

Honestly I could get behind a nocp crafted set only campaign. I'm sure it would be a ton of fun so long as you get population in there.

Alchimiste1

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Just an idea I want to throw out there.

These are my personal observations from playing on the PC NA server, but it seems that the pvp community isn't really growing. It seems like more people are leaving and for a while that was only offset by the amount of console transfers incoming. I think it would be a good idea for ZoS to spend a bit of their time reworking the u50 campaign to get newer players more interested in pvp.

I think one of the main reason the current u50 Campaign died is because there were a lot of permanent rerollers with OP gear that they farmed or kept from their previous characters. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to reroll, but I am suggesting the following.


1. Cap the low-level battles scaling buff of all gear to blue quality. (this is pretty close in numbers to vet GOLD quality items and is much cheaper for new players to acquire).
2. Sell full sets of some decent crafted pvp gear for AP at u50 levels. (Full set of blue quality nma, wretched vitality, fortified brass, heartland's conq etc. every 10 or so levels.)
3. Provide Good rewards for low levels to visit cyro. (things that decrease the research time of traits for gear/weapons. Some gold materials for upgrading armor etc.)

Basically, just provide incentives for new players to begin their pvp journey and when they are ready then can swap over to the vet campaign.

Alch I would say the exact opposite. The reroll players were the only thing keeping the U50 campaign running. Cyrodil was never designed to function with low pop. Even slightly unbalanced factions is enough for cyrodil to not function. U50 was healthiest when each faction had a functioning pug guild. AD had several over the years with AA, Lahma's, GoNB, Janessa's. Where EP didn't have a guild since BWB and saw a dying population. DC had a few, with gabriebe and such. However DC really only had a big pop during holiday weeks or summer break where they would hold the map.

New and reroll players simply wouldn't play when the map was unbalanced. The map became unbalanced when one pug guild was the only one online and flipped the map. As the reroll guilds left and died out the server fell apart functionally, brand new players simply wouldn't run things since they didn't know how. Unlike years ago with 10x the playerbase, new players can nolonger watch what the better players are doing to learn.

It got bad enough there were many occasions where I would have to go flip the map back taking keeps myself or with one of my guildies to even out the map so people would log in. Which got old real quick having to swap between factions to balance the map on u50 characters. All just to have one guild like AA only log in at the same time with 30 players to roll the map again and log off since the other factions didnt have an opposing guild.

As far as solutions to the problem we are in there are two paths forward. Either salvage the current non functioning system or rework the pvp servers functionally.

1. Try to salvage the current server layout. What you would want to do is improve the introduction quest combined with gear vendors. These vendors cant be random loot roll and should sell gear that is guaranteed set piece, rarity, and trait (For gear vendors to work, zos has to rework scaling since overland set weapons do not scale == 1000-2000 less WD compared to a crafted weapon). Really these vendors could just sell all of the crafted gear as purple with impen.
2. Restructuring. The other option is more nuclear and should probably happen anyways. You would rip the bandaid off and restructure the servers such that you have two 30 day campaigns only. One being a 30 day CP campaign, the other being a nocp campaign. Players under ~800cp are forced to only play in the nocp campaign. During this time you could give them a bonus ap gain on their account that doesn't affect leaderboard.

Cyrodil has its own rework issues to combat the issues with declingin population which I also have been talking about in another thread LINK

Got a forum suspension so I couldn’t reply sooner. Anyways I’m not saying to ban rerollers but I strongly do think that’s capping gear to blue quality for all and introducing things like buyable crafted gear would help entice new players to learn PvP.

MincMincMinc

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Just an idea I want to throw out there.

These are my personal observations from playing on the PC NA server, but it seems that the pvp community isn't really growing. It seems like more people are leaving and for a while that was only offset by the amount of console transfers incoming. I think it would be a good idea for ZoS to spend a bit of their time reworking the u50 campaign to get newer players more interested in pvp.

I think one of the main reason the current u50 Campaign died is because there were a lot of permanent rerollers with OP gear that they farmed or kept from their previous characters. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to reroll, but I am suggesting the following.


1. Cap the low-level battles scaling buff of all gear to blue quality. (this is pretty close in numbers to vet GOLD quality items and is much cheaper for new players to acquire).
2. Sell full sets of some decent crafted pvp gear for AP at u50 levels. (Full set of blue quality nma, wretched vitality, fortified brass, heartland's conq etc. every 10 or so levels.)
3. Provide Good rewards for low levels to visit cyro. (things that decrease the research time of traits for gear/weapons. Some gold materials for upgrading armor etc.)

Basically, just provide incentives for new players to begin their pvp journey and when they are ready then can swap over to the vet campaign.

Alch I would say the exact opposite. The reroll players were the only thing keeping the U50 campaign running. Cyrodil was never designed to function with low pop. Even slightly unbalanced factions is enough for cyrodil to not function. U50 was healthiest when each faction had a functioning pug guild. AD had several over the years with AA, Lahma's, GoNB, Janessa's. Where EP didn't have a guild since BWB and saw a dying population. DC had a few, with gabriebe and such. However DC really only had a big pop during holiday weeks or summer break where they would hold the map.

New and reroll players simply wouldn't play when the map was unbalanced. The map became unbalanced when one pug guild was the only one online and flipped the map. As the reroll guilds left and died out the server fell apart functionally, brand new players simply wouldn't run things since they didn't know how. Unlike years ago with 10x the playerbase, new players can nolonger watch what the better players are doing to learn.

It got bad enough there were many occasions where I would have to go flip the map back taking keeps myself or with one of my guildies to even out the map so people would log in. Which got old real quick having to swap between factions to balance the map on u50 characters. All just to have one guild like AA only log in at the same time with 30 players to roll the map again and log off since the other factions didnt have an opposing guild.

As far as solutions to the problem we are in there are two paths forward. Either salvage the current non functioning system or rework the pvp servers functionally.

1. Try to salvage the current server layout. What you would want to do is improve the introduction quest combined with gear vendors. These vendors cant be random loot roll and should sell gear that is guaranteed set piece, rarity, and trait (For gear vendors to work, zos has to rework scaling since overland set weapons do not scale == 1000-2000 less WD compared to a crafted weapon). Really these vendors could just sell all of the crafted gear as purple with impen.
2. Restructuring. The other option is more nuclear and should probably happen anyways. You would rip the bandaid off and restructure the servers such that you have two 30 day campaigns only. One being a 30 day CP campaign, the other being a nocp campaign. Players under ~800cp are forced to only play in the nocp campaign. During this time you could give them a bonus ap gain on their account that doesn't affect leaderboard.

Cyrodil has its own rework issues to combat the issues with declingin population which I also have been talking about in another thread LINK

Got a forum suspension so I couldn’t reply sooner. Anyways I’m not saying to ban rerollers but I strongly do think that’s capping gear to blue quality for all and introducing things like buyable crafted gear would help entice new players to learn PvP.

It sure would help, but I think at a certain point fundamentally it has flopped. Once a fire burns out, there is only so much time before the embers cool when you can still make changes to relight the fire. I think not only lowbie, but even the vet campaigns are already too far cooled. Greyhost is running on embers in the week and barely gets a flame during primetime weekends.

Alchimiste1

Yeah I agree with that. Cyro needs a major rework