Visual proof of why the leaderboards make no sense.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 20

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

CameraBeardThePirate · November 20

@ZOS_Icy Could you please move this to the PvP Activities section? I'm not sure how it ended up in the combat and skills section.

Necrotech_Master · November 20

the only thing i can fathom is that the green team got a ton more medal score due to healing

looking at the stats on the sheet, the green team healed only 433k total health, the red team healed almost 2 million health

green score total was 2375, red score total is 7800

it kind of tracks with the medal differences, ~4x more healing = ~3x higher score

this just helps highlight how much more healing is basically rewarded in BGs leaderboard wise

CameraBeardThePirate · November 20

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing i can fathom is that the green team got a ton more medal score due to healing

looking at the stats on the sheet, the green team healed only 433k total health, the red team healed almost 2 million health

green score total was 2375, red score total is 7800

it kind of tracks with the medal differences, ~4x more healing = ~3x higher score

this just helps highlight how much more healing is basically rewarded in BGs leaderboard wise

Green also had a shielder instead of a healer, which is conveniently not tracked by the game.

chessalavakia_ESO · November 20

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

Domination mode rewards players with points for taking objectives, taking damage, healing damage at an objective, and killing players by a point. You also get a 500 point bonus if you earn 250 defense points at an objective.

If your team doesn't take much damage to health by an objective you aren't going to earn points for taking damage.

If your team doesn't take damage much you aren't going to be able to heal much and get points for it.

If the other team isn't succeeding at flipping points you aren't going to be getting points for taking them back.

If you aren't earning points you aren't going to be able to get the 500 point bonus.

Necrotech_Master · November 20

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing i can fathom is that the green team got a ton more medal score due to healing

looking at the stats on the sheet, the green team healed only 433k total health, the red team healed almost 2 million health

green score total was 2375, red score total is 7800

it kind of tracks with the medal differences, ~4x more healing = ~3x higher score

this just helps highlight how much more healing is basically rewarded in BGs leaderboard wise

Green also had a shielder instead of a healer, which is conveniently not tracked by the game.

do you get healer medals for overhealing? like healing someone already at full health, or only when someone is actually healed?

if it doesnt grant while overhealing, then shielding aside from not adding to your own score would be actively reducing every person on the teams score because it would all be overhealing if they were full health more often

Sluggy · November 20

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing i can fathom is that the green team got a ton more medal score due to healing

looking at the stats on the sheet, the green team healed only 433k total health, the red team healed almost 2 million health

green score total was 2375, red score total is 7800

it kind of tracks with the medal differences, ~4x more healing = ~3x higher score

this just helps highlight how much more healing is basically rewarded in BGs leaderboard wise

Green also had a shielder instead of a healer, which is conveniently not tracked by the game.

do you get healer medals for overhealing? like healing someone already at full health, or only when someone is actually healed?

if it doesnt grant while overhealing, then shielding aside from not adding to your own score would be actively reducing every person on the teams score because it would all be overhealing if they were full health more often

The problem with overhealing is that it could just as easily be gamed. Sit at the spawn. Spam heals. Loose match. Win rankings.

EDIT: Cat posted before I could type the next paragraph

Anyway, it looks like healing just needs a nerf in the scores. Or perhaps a complete rework of conditionals. Probably a better option would be to average healing and damage together? Then at least you couldn't just go all in on one and outscore everyone else that is trying to cover their team's bases. Still doesn't fix the shielding issue but that's a whole other issue.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 20

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

Domination mode rewards players with points for taking objectives, taking damage, healing damage at an objective, and killing players by a point. You also get a 500 point bonus if you earn 250 defense points at an objective.

If your team doesn't take much damage to health by an objective you aren't going to earn points for taking damage.

If your team doesn't take damage much you aren't going to be able to heal much and get points for it.

If the other team isn't succeeding at flipping points you aren't going to be getting points for taking them back.

If you aren't earning points you aren't going to be able to get the 500 point bonus.

Cool, but points should be awarded for winning if the leaderboard is based on points. If a team can dominate the game in all facets as hard as they did, they shouldn't be jumped on the leaderboard by the team they just mopped the floor with. That's asinine.

ZOS_GregoryV · November 20

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

@ZOS_Icy Could you please move this to the PvP Activities section? I'm not sure how it ended up in the combat and skills section.

As per your request, this thread has been moved.

Regards,
-Greg-

chessalavakia_ESO · November 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

Domination mode rewards players with points for taking objectives, taking damage, healing damage at an objective, and killing players by a point. You also get a 500 point bonus if you earn 250 defense points at an objective.

If your team doesn't take much damage to health by an objective you aren't going to earn points for taking damage.

If your team doesn't take damage much you aren't going to be able to heal much and get points for it.

If the other team isn't succeeding at flipping points you aren't going to be getting points for taking them back.

If you aren't earning points you aren't going to be able to get the 500 point bonus.

Cool, but points should be awarded for winning if the leaderboard is based on points. If a team can dominate the game in all facets as hard as they did, they shouldn't be jumped on the leaderboard by the team they just mopped the floor with. That's asinine.

My impression is the point structure and the leaderboard structure were designed to try to keep people actively playing and to somewhat try to be a helpful teammate.

For example, in Domination you get various medals that add up to around 750 points if you take 250,000 damage to your health by the objective.

That doesn't actually require much skill as you can just die over and over at the objective doing nothing and get it but, it at least makes people feel like their effort to try to win at least somewhat is being rewarded.

RomanRex · November 21

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

Domination mode rewards players with points for taking objectives, taking damage, healing damage at an objective, and killing players by a point. You also get a 500 point bonus if you earn 250 defense points at an objective.

If your team doesn't take much damage to health by an objective you aren't going to earn points for taking damage.

If your team doesn't take damage much you aren't going to be able to heal much and get points for it.

If the other team isn't succeeding at flipping points you aren't going to be getting points for taking them back.

If you aren't earning points you aren't going to be able to get the 500 point bonus.

Cool, but points should be awarded for winning if the leaderboard is based on points. If a team can dominate the game in all facets as hard as they did, they shouldn't be jumped on the leaderboard by the team they just mopped the floor with. That's asinine.

My impression is the point structure and the leaderboard structure were designed to try to keep people actively playing and to somewhat try to be a helpful teammate.

For example, in Domination you get various medals that add up to around 750 points if you take 250,000 damage to your health by the objective.

That doesn't actually require much skill as you can just die over and over at the objective doing nothing and get it but, it at least makes people feel like their effort to try to win at least somewhat is being rewarded.

this is why i enjoy them. they support good play regardless of match outcome.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 21

RomanRex wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

Domination mode rewards players with points for taking objectives, taking damage, healing damage at an objective, and killing players by a point. You also get a 500 point bonus if you earn 250 defense points at an objective.

If your team doesn't take much damage to health by an objective you aren't going to earn points for taking damage.

If your team doesn't take damage much you aren't going to be able to heal much and get points for it.

If the other team isn't succeeding at flipping points you aren't going to be getting points for taking them back.

If you aren't earning points you aren't going to be able to get the 500 point bonus.

Cool, but points should be awarded for winning if the leaderboard is based on points. If a team can dominate the game in all facets as hard as they did, they shouldn't be jumped on the leaderboard by the team they just mopped the floor with. That's asinine.

My impression is the point structure and the leaderboard structure were designed to try to keep people actively playing and to somewhat try to be a helpful teammate.

For example, in Domination you get various medals that add up to around 750 points if you take 250,000 damage to your health by the objective.

That doesn't actually require much skill as you can just die over and over at the objective doing nothing and get it but, it at least makes people feel like their effort to try to win at least somewhat is being rewarded.

this is why i enjoy them. they support good play regardless of match outcome.

Sorry but that does not mean a team that performs better than the other to the degree in the photo should be jumped on the leaderboard by the team they just beat.

A system designated as "Competitive" should not be rewarding the losing team more than the winning team under any circumstances.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 21

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Green team dominated this match. They won the objective, did not die, and scored 15 total kills vs the other team's 0.

And yet, the red team will move up the leaderboard 3 times more on average than the green team. Each player on Red, somehow, earned 3x the Medal Score of each player on Green. Make it make sense.

@ZOS_Kevin How is this okay? In what world is the losing team awarded 3 times as much as the winning team on a leaderboard?

@ZOS_Gilliam you were in this match. Do you think it's fair the losing team moves up the leaderboard 3x as much as the winning team in a match like this?

Domination mode rewards players with points for taking objectives, taking damage, healing damage at an objective, and killing players by a point. You also get a 500 point bonus if you earn 250 defense points at an objective.

If your team doesn't take much damage to health by an objective you aren't going to earn points for taking damage.

If your team doesn't take damage much you aren't going to be able to heal much and get points for it.

If the other team isn't succeeding at flipping points you aren't going to be getting points for taking them back.

If you aren't earning points you aren't going to be able to get the 500 point bonus.

Cool, but points should be awarded for winning if the leaderboard is based on points. If a team can dominate the game in all facets as hard as they did, they shouldn't be jumped on the leaderboard by the team they just mopped the floor with. That's asinine.

but, it at least makes people feel like their effort to try to win at least somewhat is being rewarded.

Except for the people that, you know, actually won the game. Because apparently they didn't play "good enough" to be rewarded.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 21

@ZOS_Kevin The silence on this post is deafening.

This isn't just a matter of "oh the healing medals are broken". The entire crux of the latest update is broken. You cannot have a "competitive" leaderboard system that allows a team that got obliterated to jump the team that just beat them on the leaderboard.

Miracle19 · November 21

Great example of why objective modes should NEVER exist in ranked or competitive in ESO BGs. DM only easily solves that issue

Sluggy · November 21

Miracle19 wrote: »

Great example of why objective modes should NEVER exist in ranked or competitive in ESO BGs. DM only easily solves that issue

Except it isn't an example of that. There's literally NO objective metric by which the second team won. The only thing that was higher was healing but inferring from the numbers I'd say they were on the defense 100% of the time. It actually makes no sense to score a game this way. So in a professional tennis match to we give the cup to the loser because he was running really hard and out of breath?

Miracle19 · November 22

Sluggy wrote: »

Miracle19 wrote: »

Great example of why objective modes should NEVER exist in ranked or competitive in ESO BGs. DM only easily solves that issue

Except it isn't an example of that. There's literally NO objective metric by which the second team won. The only thing that was higher was healing but inferring from the numbers I'd say they were on the defense 100% of the time. It actually makes no sense to score a game this way. So in a professional tennis match to we give the cup to the loser because he was running really hard and out of breath?

In DM you get higher medal scores for killing, comparable to healing medal scores. It makes more sense and can be more balanced while giving healers a fair opportunity to high medal scores as well.

That team was on defense maybe 70-80% of the time. The shielder mitigates a ton of damage that is not reflected on scoreboards, and if you can’t out pressure shields, it’ll look like you’ve done 0 damage.

xylena_lazarow · November 22

This is the "critical healer" medal bug doing this, right? Probably supposed to be 10 points a pop, not 100.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is the "critical healer" medal bug doing this, right? Probably supposed to be 10 points a pop, not 100.

I mean it's not just the critical healer bug though - the winning team didn't receive more than 765 points, with some of the team receiving half that. If you can win a match by that much and only receive around 700 points on the leaderboard, that's also an issue, and it has nothing to do with the crit heal medal.

Diundriel · November 24

maybe keeping the today's system with an added multiplier x2 / x3 for the winning teams and/ or a 0,75/0,5 multiplier for the loosing team would help solve that problem. Everyone keeps getting medal points for playing objective but atleast the winning team should more often get overall more leaderboard points.