I want to be able to PAY for the item I want in crown store!

Quackery · November 7

These damn crown crates are a scam of the worst kind!! I really hope the EU bans this gambling!

I opened 15 crates and got ONE gold item: 150% XP scroll! I always keep forgetting how much of a scam these crates are. I want to pay directly for the item I want, not gambling like this! Only getting one gold and one purple item is insane!!

o_Primate_o · November 7

yeah, the free crowns from ESO+ can be left for gambling, but purchased crowns or real money should get you what you want. Odd that gambling is allowed knowing ppl under 18 play this game. ZOS could still do their money grab by making store items' availability limited in quantity.

tsaescishoeshiner · November 7

The 15 Crate packs should come with a guaranteed legendary or two (like in an extra Legendary Crate). But yeah, buying Crates hoping to get Legendaries, or even Epics, let alone the specific one you want, is a recipe for disappointment. Can check crowncrates.com to see the droprates for individual items from previous Crates.

kargen27 · November 7

o_Primate_o wrote: »

yeah, the free crowns from ESO+ can be left for gambling, but purchased crowns or real money should get you what you want. Odd that gambling is allowed knowing ppl under 18 play this game.

Legally in the United States it isn't gambling. It falls in line with sports trading card packs and things like that. You are buying a specific number of items with the understanding you do not know what those items might be. That aside ESO is rated M17+ so seeing content for that rating should not be unexpected.

fizzylu · November 7

BDO does it best; even with outfits, let's say you just want the gloves.... well, you can choose to just pay for the gloves and not the full outfit. Haven't seen any other game do something like this though and I doubt ESO will ever change because clearly things like crown crates and overpriced bundles are the main sources of the revenue that they like to talk proudly about in articles.

Taril · November 8

Quackery wrote: »

I really hope the EU bans this gambling!

Even if they did, Crown Crates would likely still be possible.

Since you can turn your undesired results into Crown Gems allowing the (Eventual) direct purchase of your desired item.

Meaning, you can be guaranteed to get any specific item you wish. It just might cost you like 100x more than you'd want to pay (But this would circumvent the "Gambling" aspect)

Additionally, there's the entire Endeavor system, further allowing you to earn currency to buy specific items from the Crown Crate pool.

So yeah, while Lootboxes of all kinds are scummy and annoying... ZOS implemented them in a way that would let them bypass many countries "Gambling" laws and lawmakers aren't in the business of protecting people from "Scummy" practices so they're unlikely to be made illegal.

Really, these aren't going anywhere unless:

1) Financial Executives grow a conscience and decide to put player experience over raw profits (Which is about as likely as me suddenly acquiring billions of dollars to be able to fund my own MMO game development studio)

or 2) People just stop buying this stuff so that it stops making so much profit (Which is about as likely as me acquiring a girlfriend)

So yeah, these will be around forever. At least with Crown Crates you can mostly ignore them and just hoard Endeavors until you see something you REALLY want, which is a step up from most other games where it's roll the dice or GTFO with no alternatives.

Blood_again · November 8

o_Primate_o wrote: »

yeah, the free crowns from ESO+ can be left for gambling, but purchased crowns or real money should get you what you want.

Yes, it is time to show those miserable eso+ subscribers that they are lower grade supporters!
\s

Really, how did you come to the idea that your crowns are better than someone's?
Did you try to apply the same principle to gold, AP, or maybe local currency? Did it work?

While I'm voting with two hands for easier store item availability, I'm convinced that crowns are crowns, whatever way you've got them.

o_Primate_o · November 8

kargen27 wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

yeah, the free crowns from ESO+ can be left for gambling, but purchased crowns or real money should get you what you want. Odd that gambling is allowed knowing ppl under 18 play this game.

Legally in the United States it isn't gambling. It falls in line with sports trading card packs and things like that. You are buying a specific number of items with the understanding you do not know what those items might be. That aside ESO is rated M17+ so seeing content for that rating should not be unexpected.

ok-ok

SilverBride · November 8

o_Primate_o wrote: »

...the free crowns from ESO+...

The crowns from ESO+ aren't free. Neither are the double bank slots, or the double housing slots, or the craft bag, or the monthly furnishing, etc.. They are all paid for with our monthly subscription cost.

Pelanora · November 8

All the items should be in the store. I don't believe they have any evidence offering everything for sale in a giant store earns less than FOMO earns them. Else all the giant stores in the world are founded on a mistake.

Taril · November 8

Pelanora wrote: »

I don't believe they have any evidence offering everything for sale in a giant store earns less than FOMO earns them.

I'd imagine they have sales figures that directly provide evidence of the value of FOMO/Lootbox profits compared to their more stable offerings.

Pelanora wrote: »

Else all the giant stores in the world are founded on a mistake.

Like "Giant stores" don't do the exact same stuff with seasonal offerings, sales and other predatory tactics to encourage purchases and overall spending...

Heck, we're coming up to the 2 literal largest of such events for the year, Black Friday and Christmas. Which are by and large noted as the most profitable times of the year for retailers.

fizzylu · November 8

Taril wrote: »

Like "Giant stores" don't do the exact same stuff with seasonal offerings, sales and other predatory tactics to encourage purchases and overall spending...

But those are sales on *pretty much already existing, just maybe slightly different, items you could get at any other time????

Now, don't get me wrong; FOMO absolutely gets them more sales, especially on things like crown crates and the overpriced houses.... but I just don't quite see how having actual sales on merchandise that has been in a store has anything to do with having items for sale (NOT on sale) for a limited time.

(also I should clarify, I think it gets them more sales aka a bigger chunk of money in a short period of time rather than more spread out. You know, lump-sum investing being "better" than dollar-cost averaging and all that)

Taril · November 8

fizzylu wrote: »

Now, don't get me wrong; FOMO absolutely gets them more sales, especially on things like crown crates and the overpriced houses.... but I just don't quite see how having actual sales on merchandise that has been in a store has anything to do with having items for sale (NOT on sale) for a limited time.

They don't ONLY do sales on existing items.

Like I said, they do seasonal offerings, often with marked up prices (Think holiday garbage like Valentines, Easter, Halloween etc. Where just because they've repackaged chocolate, they now sell it for like 3x the price) - Though you can sometimes capitalize on this in the form of clearance sales post-events where stores are trying to offload their remaining stocks.

There's also often promotional event items, like special versions of things that are only temporarily available.

Not to mention seasonal stocks that change based on what is likely to sell at a given time (I.e. You're more likely to find ice cream, water guns and beach accessories in Summer rather than in Winter)

It's simply just the standard for how things work (And if we're talking about the founding of giant stores... Well that is traced back to early markets where what was available was what people had farmed/raised/caught at the time so was very variable)

E-commerce is what started the whole "Buy whatever you want, whenever you want" thing with massive corporations like Amazon connecting many retailers to funnel into singular locations to promote more continual product availability (Even more so with their global reach meaning every season is occuring at all times, just in different parts of the market)

fizzylu · November 8

Taril wrote: »

Not to mention seasonal stocks that change based on what is likely to sell at a given time (I.e. You're more likely to find ice cream, water guns and beach accessories in Summer rather than in Winter)

This is entirely different than game companies practicing FOMO on non perishable/usable all year round items to get more money out of their playerbase in shorter periods of time, if you cannot see that then idk.

Taril wrote: »

Like I said, they do seasonal offerings, often with marked up prices (Think holiday garbage like Valentines, Easter, Halloween etc. Where just because they've repackaged chocolate, they now sell it for like 3x the price) - Though you can sometimes capitalize on this in the form of clearance sales post-events where stores are trying to offload their remaining stocks.There's also often promotional event items, like special versions of things that are only temporarily available.)

There are also many factors that do not apply to pixels that cause prices to inflate around holidays.

Taril wrote: »

There's also often promotional event items, like special versions of things that are only temporarily available.

This also doesn't have just to do with the stores, but the manufacturers/designers.... which again, is entirely different than a game developing company creating something, stocking it to their own "store", and choosing to do so only temporarily to garner more sales in a shorter amount of time.

Also.... I was agreeing with you about FOMO getting them more sales, if that wasn't clear. Unless you just really feel that much of a need to excuse Zenimax practicing FOMO to get players to panic buy digital items for some reason.

Taril · November 8

fizzylu wrote: »

This is entirely different than game companies practicing FOMO on non perishable/usable all year round items to get more money out of their playerbase in shorter periods of time, if you cannot see that then idk.

It's not entirely different. It's literally the same thing.

Offer something for a temporary period of time, to generate sales based on people capitalizing on the fleeting nature of the items.

Many such items can be used all year around too. People go on holidays to places with different climates all times of the year.

fizzylu wrote: »

This also doesn't have just to do with the stores, but the manufacturers/designers.... which again, is entirely different than a game developing company creating something, stocking it to their own "store", and choosing to do so only temporarily to garner more sales in a shorter amount of time.

To which, many giant stores ARE manufacturers/designers of products that go into said stores...

Literally, most massive chain stores do in fact, produce many items that they sell. Be it things like supermarkets offering own brand food items, to hardware stores like Harbour Freight which have their own brands.

Heck, even Amazon has its own lines of various items it produces (Amazon Basics, Amazon Essentials etc)

fizzylu wrote: »

Unless you just really feel that much of a need to excuse Zenimax practicing FOMO to get players to panic buy digital items for some reason.

I'm not excusing Zenimax for anything.

I'm pointing out that it's not a particularly new or shocking thing that companies use FOMO to increase sales and that it is so widely used because it's an effective strategy. Whilst also noting that "Giant stores" aren't innocent when it comes to predatory marketing and in fact they're some of the actual worst.

Pelanora · November 8

"Hi [giant department store name] where are your jeans? I need some new ones and this brand is the one i like."

"Oh sorry we only do those two weeks a year so everyone buys them in a FOMO rush so there's no jeans now"

Says no department store ever.

"Hi [giant department store name] where are your toasters? I need a new one and this colour and style is the one i like."

"Oh sorry we only do those two weeks a year so everyone buys them in a FOMO rush so there's no toasters now"

Says no department store ever.

Narvuntien · November 8

Pelanora wrote: »

"Hi [giant department store name] where are your jeans? I need some new ones and this brand is the one i like."

"Oh sorry we only do those two weeks a year so everyone buys them in a FOMO rush so there's no jeans like that now"

Says no department store ever.

"Hi [giant department store name] where are your toasters? I need a new one and this colour and style is the one i like."

"Oh sorry we only do those two weeks a year so everyone buys them in a FOMO rush so there's no toasters now"

Says no department store ever.

Don't give them ideas... they definitely do do that with fashion already

fizzylu · November 8

Taril wrote: »

It's not entirely different. It's literally the same thing.

Offer something for a temporary period of time, to generate sales based on people capitalizing on the fleeting nature of the items.

While the concept is the same, the main details are not.... again; perishable goods vs pixels. Items that actually require other ingredients/materials to be made vs pixels. There are many reasons why IRL stores have things for limited times other than greed.

Taril wrote: »

Many such items can be used all year around too. People go on holidays to places with different climates all times of the year.

And guess what? They can buy those items where they're vacationing and sold all year round, instead of you know, unrealistically taking a pool floaty with them on a plane? I mean, personally; I wouldn't even want to imagine the mess irl stores would look like if they had every seasons seasonal items all year round.... because you know, it's not digital items just on a screen in a convenient little UI?

Taril wrote: »

Literally, most massive chain stores do in fact, produce many items that they sell. Be it things like supermarkets offering own brand food items, to hardware stores like Harbour Freight which have their own brands.

Okay, and when was the last time you saw your regular grocery store offer a limited edition of their own ketchup during Black Friday at an increased price? I'm guessing never.

Taril wrote: »

I'm pointing out that it's not a particularly new or shocking thing that companies use FOMO to increase sales and that it is so widely used because it's an effective strategy. Whilst also noting that "Giant stores" aren't innocent when it comes to predatory marketing and in fact they're some of the actual worst.

And I personally was never saying that yet you are replying like I was.... when really, I was just pointing out that store FOMO is not at all the same thing as FOMO applied to pixels in video games. And calling it "some of the actual worst".... that is definitely debatable, but we'll just have to agree to disagree because this is all just starting to sound like a joke to me. A very sad one.

Taril · November 8

fizzylu wrote: »

While the concept is the same, the main details are not...

"The main details" being you being overly critical of a particular practice because "Pixels"

Companies employ the same tactics all over the place. Simply because one is "Pixels" doesn't make it any worse. All forms of it are trying to be predatory and entice people into spending more money than they otherwise would.

And no, the only reason why stores use limited time on stuff IS greed. Yes, space issues are a concern, because they want to use the space for MORE PROFITABLE items instead.

Hence why E-commerce sites like Amazon are enabling the whole "Get anything at any time" thing because of global warehousing and outsourced retailers. Essentially making space a non-factor so they can sell anything at any time.

fizzylu wrote: »

Okay, and when was the last time you saw your regular grocery store offer a limited edition of their own ketchup during Black Friday at an increased price? I'm guessing never.

1) Black Friday is using sales not price hikes. You're not going to find ANYTHING sold for a price hike during Black Friday so this entire theoretical situation is asinine.

2) Every week I see some of my regular grocery stores putting on offers for their own brand stuff. It's quite commonplace actually. Especially things like deals where it's "Buy X amount of this item for a slightly discounted price" where it's literally enticing you to buy larger quantities to get a discount (A fallacy like the Black Friday one - You don't "Save" money by buying things you wouldn't have otherwise bought)

3) I see plenty of limited edition versions of various own brand stuff. Especially from their in-house bakery given that such products are made daily and thus easily subject to change. Just a few days ago, I picked up some limited edition sprinkled donuts that were made because of Bonfire night for example.

fizzylu wrote: »

And I personally was never saying that yet you are replying like I was... when really, I was just pointing out that store FOMO is not at all the same thing as FOMO applied to pixels in video games.

FOMO is FOMO. Whether the product is physical or digital it doesn't matter. It's still the same practice of artificial scarcity to boost sales with little concern for customers.

It doesn't matter what form the FOMO takes either, whether it's ONLY selling something during specific periods, whether it's putting them on sale for specific periods, putting out offers on them for specific periods... It's still the same.

Maybe you can argue that there's a difference from a consumer perspective between ONLY being able to purchase something during a set period and something being notably more expensive outside of a set period. But it's kind of splitting hairs as both situations are inherently anti-consumer (Perhaps some people feel better to get overcharged for an item rather than not have access to it... Well, clearly this is the case for some people hence why scalpers continue to be a rampant issue)

fizzylu wrote: »

And calling it "some of the actual worst".... that is definitely debatable

Not really. Bigger stores literally hire psychologists to help them do things to maximize their ability to influence people into spending more money.

They do everything in their power to maximize profits, with all sorts of marketing techniques such as FOMO. Even inoccuous things like where they put stock is literally designed to influence purchasing decisions.

Everything about giant stores is literally designed to make people spend more money and has little regard for actually providing a better service - Hence some of the actual worst. It may not be as egregious as disguised gambling (Especially when it's targeted at kids such as with the FIFA games) but the extent it goes certainly makes it pretty bad.

ComboBreaker88 · November 8

You should be able to convert ANY crown item into crown gems or crowns. No matter the source.

Cooperharley · November 8

Better yet… I want to be able to EARN stuff that’s in the store rather than paying for anything and everything. You’ll see when you play long enough but come on man. 10 years in and STILL barely anything. Imagine if they put the new moon crates or hallowjack crates in the game as REWARDS rather than into a crappy gambling system

AlnilamE · November 8

Never buy crown crates, no matter what's in them. That's the only way they will go away.

AzuraFan · November 8

I used to buy crown crates with ESO+ crowns but I've stopped. Too many duplicate items, and I don't need most of the stuff in crates anyway. I have enough cosmetics, non-combat pets, mounts, etc.

But I agree that they should make items available for purchase directly. And I wish they'd stop with the time-limited items like houses. There are so many now that you have to wait years to get the ones you want. I'd buy more crowns if I could actually spend them on what I want. But I can't, because "not available for purchase."

virtus753 · November 8

kargen27 wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

yeah, the free crowns from ESO+ can be left for gambling, but purchased crowns or real money should get you what you want. Odd that gambling is allowed knowing ppl under 18 play this game.

Legally in the United States it isn't gambling. It falls in line with sports trading card packs and things like that. You are buying a specific number of items with the understanding you do not know what those items might be. That aside ESO is rated M17+ so seeing content for that rating should not be unexpected.

The decisions in the US that have declared loot boxes not to be gambling rest on the reasoning that the items contained in the loot boxes have no real-world value. That makes them very different from physical trading card packs, whose contents retain value and can be resold.

fizzylu · November 8

Cooperharley wrote: »

Better yet… I want to be able to EARN stuff that’s in the store rather than paying for anything and everything. You’ll see when you play long enough but come on man. 10 years in and STILL barely anything. Imagine if they put the new moon crates or hallowjack crates in the game as REWARDS rather than into a crappy gambling system

Sadly the possibility of more earnable rewards went out the window when they went away from a mandatory sub to an "optional" one and cash shop. And sadly, they didn't really have a choice back then since the game wasn't doing well enough to run off a mandatory subscription system.... but I also don't see them changing it back even now with the games newfound success and popularity the game is claimed to have. Especially since I think a lot of the "success" is just because of the crown store so.... extra doubt it.

And we can continue to see things shoved into the crown store as FOMO (crown crates being the prime form of it, imo) as long as there are players that will reason a game company selling things like $100+ dollar in-game houses for limited times is just as reasonable as a grocery store bakery selling a new kind of donut, probably using an ingredient they have a limited amount of, for a short period of time/until they run out of stock.

vsrs_au · November 8

AlnilamE wrote: »

Never buy crown crates, no matter what's in them. That's the only way they will go away.

Which will never happen. That's the same as saying "the gambling companies will go out of business if nobody gambles", but we all know enough people will fail to resist their urge to gamble to keep these companies in business.

Amottica · November 8

Quackery wrote: »

I really hope the EU bans this gambling!

EU has gone after crates that offer items that are of benefit in the game but seem to be leaving alone the type of crates we have in ESO.

One thing MS did, which ESO was forced to follow when MS purchased Zenimax, was provide a means for players to obtain items from the crown crates via in-game means. This was part of a greater agreement across multiple gaming houses to avoid regulation of crown crate-like items.

Just FYI, purchasing the crates supports the crates' business model. It is literally casting a vote in favor of the crates.

LalMirchi · November 8

I must confess to never ever buying the Crown crates.

I open the freebie login crates & Twitch drops which only further my instinctive reaction to our lil Pacrooti which is "Avoid at all costs". His very obviously nefarious portrayal in-game may give some a clue.

moderatelyfatman · November 9

Quackery wrote: »

These damn crown crates are a scam of the worst kind!! I really hope the EU bans this gambling!

I opened 15 crates and got ONE gold item: 150% XP scroll! I always keep forgetting how much of a scam these crates are. I want to pay directly for the item I want, not gambling like this! Only getting one gold and one purple item is insane!!

I think if ZOS actually sold these mounts for the amount the players typically spend to get them, the outrage would be deafening.

WiseSky · November 9

I made a simulator that lets you know how it could go
https://tools.libove.org/generators/roll/gloomspore-crown-crates-simulator/

kargen27 · November 9

virtus753 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

yeah, the free crowns from ESO+ can be left for gambling, but purchased crowns or real money should get you what you want. Odd that gambling is allowed knowing ppl under 18 play this game.

Legally in the United States it isn't gambling. It falls in line with sports trading card packs and things like that. You are buying a specific number of items with the understanding you do not know what those items might be. That aside ESO is rated M17+ so seeing content for that rating should not be unexpected.

The decisions in the US that have declared loot boxes not to be gambling rest on the reasoning that the items contained in the loot boxes have no real-world value. That makes them very different from physical trading card packs, whose contents retain value and can be resold.

So yet another example as to why they are not gambling. And not all cards retain value. Some are worthless right out of the package and stay that way. Prospect cards of players that never get past AA comes to mind.