How to fix 4v4v4 Battlegrounds [HELP ME]

Moonspawn

I will keep updating this topic with your contributions.
Chaosball

Pick up and try to hold a ball which gives points but deals increasingly serious damage over time.
Chaosball (or Chaos Ball) is a Battlegrounds game mode falling under Flag Games. Its objective is to secure the Chaosball itself and earn 500 points for one's team by carrying it. While being carried, the Chaosball will deal increasing amounts of Oblivion Damage to its carrier.The Chaosball will spawn in the center of—or somewhere close to the center of—the map a few seconds after the game starts. It will hover above the head of the player who picked it up, creating an AoE ground effect dealing Oblivion Damage only to its carrier's team members. It will deal damage to its carrier every second, while it will earn 4 points for the carrier's team for every 'tick' that elapses while the ball is being carried. If and once the carrier dies, the ball will fall from the carrier and all players will have the opportunity to interact with it to become the new carrier.

PROBLEMS:
- Ball carrier could move around the map at high speed. Would be all but impossible to catch.
- Players could take the ball to cheesy places where they couldn't be damaged OR where you had to give up your life to damage them.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
- Snare the ball carrier.
- Fix cheesy places.

Capture the Relic

Capture the Relic is a Battlegrounds game mode falling under Flag Games. Its objective is to secure enemy relics five times to earn 500 points for one's team. Enemy relics can only be captured while one's team holds its own relic. The Relics begin the game at their respective bases, where they will remain until a player of an opposing team picks it up. For a brief duration, the picking up of relics can be interrupted, though it can be attempted again. It will hover above the head of the player who picked it up as it is carried by the player. If the carrier dies, the relic will fall from the carrier and all players will have the opportunity to interact with it to either claim it, or, if the interacting player is a member of the relic's team, send it back to its original position. If the relic run is uninterrupted, the relic runner will be able to earn 100 team points and 500 medal points by bringing it to their own base, where it will then disappear. After a few seconds, it will return to its original position. As with all other Battlegrounds, to earn 500 points is the objective.

PROBLEMS:
- Standing around guarding a relic is boring.
- Pointlessly parsing a tank who is guarding a relic is boring.
- Having your relic stolen through the wall, or because the grabbing animation didnt play correctly is boring.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
- Why don't we cut through the boredom and jump to the fun part right from the get go? What if a player from each team was randomly selected as the ''relic holder''? The goal of the match would be to kill the other team's relic holder while protecting your own. When the relic holder dies ''the light'' jumps to another player of the team after 30 seconds, the new relic holder. I wonder if there is some kind of problem with this format that I'm not seeing. It would, in a way, be similar to the current 8v8 chaosball.

Deathmatch

Find and kill enemy players to earn points for your team. A popular stratagem among players is to move as a team, only killing opposing players when your team intersects with another.

PROBLEMS:
- High level matches would devolve into a kind of ''no sandwich dance''. Is this really a problem? Or is this simply how the mode was meant to be played?
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
??

Crazy King

Capture and try to hold capture points that will regularly move to different locations on the map. A popular stratagem among players is to move from one capture point to another as soon as one is captured, as the transient nature of the capture points often means that expending resources and time fighting over capture points can waste time and cause your team to lose the opportunity to take other capture points.
Crazy King is a Battlegrounds game mode falling under Land Grab. Its objective is to secure capture points to earn 500 points for one's team. These Capture points, which spawn and respawn in different locations periodically, are captured by players who stand close to them.
The first capture point will spawn when the game starts, and will despawn and respawn in different locations several times before the next spawns. As with the first, the second capture point will despawn and respawn several times before the third capture point spawns. Late in the game, the fourth capture point will spawn too. While capture points are under the control of a team, it will earn 4 points for that team for every 'tick' that elapses. As each capture point approaches the end of its tenure in one location, flashing pillars will surround it, first yellow, but red in the final seconds of the point's existence. When the point respawns at a nearby location, its team affiliation will be removed, and it will be ready to be captured again.

PROBLEMS:
- While two teams fight, the third team flips the flags. This becomes a huge problem if the fight stalemates.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
??

Domination

Capture and hold sites across the map, continually earning points based on locations held.
Domination is a battlegrounds game mode falling under Land Grab. Its objective is to secure capture points to earn 500 points for one's team. These Capture points, which are evenly spread around the map, are captured by players who stand close to them.
The game begins with all four capture points spread around the map, which can be captured by participants standing close to them. The number of participants affects the speed of capture. If participants from two or more teams are at a point, the point's affiliation will be eroded only if the number of participants not of the point's affiliation is higher than that of the participants belonging to the team. While capture points are under the control of a team, they will earn 4 points for that team for every 'tick' that elapses.

PROBLEMS:
- While two teams fight, the third team flips the flags. This becomes a huge problem if the fight stalemates.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
??

jle30303

The "problems" with both Crazy King and Domination - "While two teams fight, the third team flips the flags" - are NOT PROBLEMS.

two teams are not playing the intended rules and one is. that's the CHOICE of the two teams. One team is playing for victory and the others are not.

This would be the same whether it's 2 teams, or 3 teams: when one team plays the objective and the other does not, the team who plays the designated objective wins.

It's like chess: doesn't matter how many pawns you capture, or indeed how many you lose, only whether you can get the king.

"We got X more kills than the opponents, we should have won"... No, because you're not playing the rules of the game.

The same's true of Relic: if you fail to defend your relic area, and fail to capture your opponent's relic, then it doesn't matter if you score more kills.

Solution: DON'T PLAY NON DEATHMATCH GAMES AS IF THEY WERE DEATHMATCH. Play the objectives.

HatchetHaro

Capture the Relic in 3-team mode is almost perfect as it is. It is the most complex in terms of strategy, with many ways you can anticipate and counter enemy movements and force stalemates in order to manipulate the enemy teams into fighting each other, leaving their relics exposed. Its only problem is that defending players gain no objective points for defending their relic, which is a core mechanic in the game mode.

The problems you are having with CtR are all skill issues, usually with how players generally approach Battlegrounds modes as if they are all TDM.

Moonspawn

jle30303 wrote: »

The "problems" with both Crazy King and Domination - "While two teams fight, the third team flips the flags" - are NOT PROBLEMS.

two teams are not playing the intended rules and one is. that's the CHOICE of the two teams. One team is playing for victory and the others are not.

This would be the same whether it's 2 teams, or 3 teams: when one team plays the objective and the other does not, the team who plays the designated objective wins.

It's like chess: doesn't matter how many pawns you capture, or indeed how many you lose, only whether you can get the king.

"We got X more kills than the opponents, we should have won"... No, because you're not playing the rules of the game.

The same's true of Relic: if you fail to defend your relic area, and fail to capture your opponent's relic, then it doesn't matter if you score more kills.

Solution: DON'T PLAY NON DEATHMATCH GAMES AS IF THEY WERE DEATHMATCH. Play the objectives.

The land grab modes are problematic even when all 12 players are earnestly playing the objective. Say your team is fighting another team for a flag. No one is dying. What do you do? Do you abandon your teammates to go flip a flag on your own?

Moonspawn

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Capture the Relic in 3-team mode is almost perfect as it is. It is the most complex in terms of strategy, with many ways you can anticipate and counter enemy movements and force stalemates in order to manipulate the enemy teams into fighting each other, leaving their relics exposed. Its only problem is that defending players gain no objective points for defending their relic, which is a core mechanic in the game mode.

The problems you are having with CtR are all skill issues, usually with how players generally approach Battlegrounds modes as if they are all TDM.

Standing around guarding a relic is boring. Pointlessly parsing a tank who is guarding a relic is boring. Having your relic stolen through the wall, or because the grabbing animation didnt play correctly is boring. Having to retrieve your relic is fun. Having to protect your teammate, who is holding a relic, is fun. Why don't we cut through the boredom and jump to the fun part right from the get go? What if a player from each team was randomly selected as the ''relic holder''? The goal of the match would be to kill the other team's relic holder while protecting your own. When the relic holder dies ''the light'' jumps to another player of the team after 30 seconds, the new relic holder. I wonder if there is some kind of problem with this format that I'm not seeing. It would, in a way, be similar to the current 8v8 chaosball.

Techwolf_Lupindo

Deathmatch needs to have a separate que. I have been in far too many matches where deathmatchers got match to game players and just runied all the fun.

Keep in mind when reading the comments about non-deathmatch games there is going to be deathmatchers in there causing the issues in the comments.

Moonspawn

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

Deathmatch needs to have a separate que. I have been in far too many matches where deathmatchers got match to game players and just runied all the fun.

Keep in mind when reading the comments about non-deathmatch games there is going to be deathmatchers in there causing the issues in the comments.

If we fix the problems with objective games there would be no reason to ignore the objective.

Aldoss

The two-team format is already fixing this. I've only actually experienced a couple BGs this entire week of me playing where there was significant or obvious lack of attention being placed on the objectives in favor of "deathmatching".

Additionally, given the two-team format, "deathmatching" is a viable and useful factor in the battleground. There's no longer a 3rd party benefiting from players getting engaged in combat.

I've ignored all the objectives in 4v4v4 modes other than deathmatch because of how unrewarding they felt and I'm now participating in all the objective modes with this new Team vs Team format. It's amazing.

Moonspawn

Aldoss wrote: »

The two-team format is already fixing this. I've only actually experienced a couple BGs this entire week of me playing where there was significant or obvious lack of attention being placed on the objectives in favor of "deathmatching".

Additionally, given the two-team format, "deathmatching" is a viable and useful factor in the battleground. There's no longer a 3rd party benefiting from players getting engaged in combat.

I've ignored all the objectives in 4v4v4 modes other than deathmatch because of how unrewarding they felt and I'm now participating in all the objective modes with this new Team vs Team format. It's amazing.

I don't believe there is a solution for how lopsided the two teams bgs are, but let's not get sidetracked. They said three teams bgs are not gone forever. It would be nice if they could return without the problems that so divided the community.