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Devs can porting out of Cyrodiil mid fight become a suspension ?
In any other pvp game that players combat log it leads to a suspension of couple of days or hours. It's time to make sure these "pvpers" start pvping 
Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith 
Edited by ZOS_Kevin on November 7, 2024 12:36PM Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith 0
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colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly if people doing so it says something about PvP that is going at said moment. And I'm actually for PvPing, not ganking, "troll"-tanking or some other forms that are fun only for one side.1 -
Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭baguette_poolish wrote: »In any other pvp game that players combat log it leads to a suspension of couple of days or hours. It's time to make sure these "pvpers" start pvping Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith
Only after ZOS fixes "stuck in combat". Players should not have to walk to the next keep or walk back to their base because they are stuck in combat.12 -
loosej✭✭✭✭They'd also have to fix the pop caps, not sure what campaign you're playing but if it isn't GH then there's a good chance those players aren't abusing anything, they just joined a different campaign while waiting...7 -
colossalvoids wrote: »Honestly if people doing so it says something about PvP that is going at said moment. And I'm actually for PvPing, not ganking, "troll"-tanking or some other forms that are fun only for one side.
100% agree with the bolded part, and at the same time those do fall into "the spirt of the game" and queuing out really doesn't fit it. The 1,2 or 3 doesn't get to choose what the X is and when it's time to leave an engagement.
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baguette_poolish wrote: »In any other pvp game that players combat log it leads to a suspension of couple of days or hours. It's time to make sure these "pvpers" start pvping Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith
Only after ZOS fixes "stuck in combat". Players should not have to walk to the next keep or walk back to their base because they are stuck in combat.
You won't be queuing out when there is pop lock, so it shouldn't be available otherwise. It is a great excuse but VERY invalid0 -
Major_Mangle✭✭✭Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)Ps4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -4 -
Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭baguette_poolish wrote: »baguette_poolish wrote: »In any other pvp game that players combat log it leads to a suspension of couple of days or hours. It's time to make sure these "pvpers" start pvping Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith
Only after ZOS fixes "stuck in combat". Players should not have to walk to the next keep or walk back to their base because they are stuck in combat.
You won't be queuing out when there is pop lock, so it shouldn't be available otherwise. It is a great excuse but VERY invalid
"Stuck in combat" is not an excuse, it is a problem that has existed in ESO for years, and ZOS needs to fix it. Players need a way to get out when they are stuck in combat, and until "stuck in combat" gets fixed, then queue is that way. Walking back to base is not the answer.6 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭baguette_poolish wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »Honestly if people doing so it says something about PvP that is going at said moment. And I'm actually for PvPing, not ganking, "troll"-tanking or some other forms that are fun only for one side.
100% agree with the bolded part, and at the same time those do fall into "the spirt of the game" and queuing out really doesn't fit it. The 1,2 or 3 doesn't get to choose what the X is and when it's time to leave an engagement.
I agree, I'm fine with anything existing but personally will prefer that other play styles were more prevalent. But if people are legitimately quitting fights that's an indicator for something as it's stupidly longer than dying and respawn, not sure who would do such a thing if not being previously queuing for a different campaign or being forced into disconnect from server.Edited by colossalvoids on October 25, 2024 5:02PM0 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
Fix the stuck in combat bug before you remove the only method we have that can undo the bug.3 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭someone who dislikes dying enough to port out of cyro before losing a fight should be pitied as that is quite sad lol
if it was porting out of IC, thats just abusing the system to protect their tel var loss in a losing fightplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities3 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster5 -
loosej✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
True, but again, just because your opponent vanishes mid fight doesn't mean they're abusing the system. People are quick to assume others are acting in bad faith, but I'm convinced that a lot (not saying all) of those instances are people who legitimately, finally, got their Gray Host queue to finish. There's no way to tell the difference, so people who always assume the worst should consider other reasons than just exploits.3 -
Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
True, but again, just because your opponent vanishes mid fight doesn't mean they're abusing the system. People are quick to assume others are acting in bad faith, but I'm convinced that a lot (not saying all) of those instances are people who legitimately, finally, got their Gray Host queue to finish. There's no way to tell the difference, so people who always assume the worst should consider other reasons than just exploits.
It happens in Gray Host, so where are they going?0 -
loosej✭✭✭✭baguette_poolish wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
True, but again, just because your opponent vanishes mid fight doesn't mean they're abusing the system. People are quick to assume others are acting in bad faith, but I'm convinced that a lot (not saying all) of those instances are people who legitimately, finally, got their Gray Host queue to finish. There's no way to tell the difference, so people who always assume the worst should consider other reasons than just exploits.
It happens in Gray Host, so where are they going?
If it's Gray Host I'd say they probably went to the login screen with a "booted from server" message...9 -
baguette_poolish wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
True, but again, just because your opponent vanishes mid fight doesn't mean they're abusing the system. People are quick to assume others are acting in bad faith, but I'm convinced that a lot (not saying all) of those instances are people who legitimately, finally, got their Gray Host queue to finish. There's no way to tell the difference, so people who always assume the worst should consider other reasons than just exploits.
It happens in Gray Host, so where are they going?
If it's Gray Host I'd say they probably went to the login screen with a "booted from server" message...
Again, don't believe so. It's very consistent and always the same players, I'll do my best to record and edit the names out. Also Booted from server and the teleport out look very different in game 0 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
Previously I supported the ability to port out of IC but now I change my stance.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8171049/#Comment_8171049
You should not be able to escape PvP in a PvPvE zone. This defeats the entire purpose of PvPvE which is risk/reward. It was less common before someone released an auto port addon. But now it's being used by many players and it's clear that it goes against the spirit of PvP.
I think the fix is to prevent porting out while in combat,, even if there's a stuck in combat bug. If you're able to run away and get out of combat, whether that's via movespeed, cloak, invis pot, etc then I think you've successfully escaped and can port out of IC.
There are some concerns about getting stuck in walls and not being able to port out. But I think the answer is to close your game client and hope you don't die while logging out. When you log back in, you should be out of combat and then you can port to Cyrodiil.
Edited by SkaraMinoc on October 25, 2024 11:47PMPC NA1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
True, but again, just because your opponent vanishes mid fight doesn't mean they're abusing the system. People are quick to assume others are acting in bad faith, but I'm convinced that a lot (not saying all) of those instances are people who legitimately, finally, got their Gray Host queue to finish. There's no way to tell the difference, so people who always assume the worst should consider other reasons than just exploits.
Sure, but it's pretty obvious when someone is abusing the system. It's one thing when a group of 4 pops out of existence in the middle of comboing your own group - they probably finally got a BG queue or Cyro queue.
It's another thing when a group of twelve runs away, full defense, and starts popping out one by one when they realize they're going to lose the fight.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on October 25, 2024 8:14PM0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
Previously I supported the ability to port out of IC but now I change my stance.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8171049/#Comment_8171049
You should not be able to escape PvP in a PvPvE zone. This defeats the entire purpose of PvPvE which is risk/reward. It was less common before someone released an auto port addon. But now it's being used by many players and it's clear that it goes against the spirit of PvP.
I think the fix is to prevent porting out while in combat,, even if there's a stuck in combat bug. If you're able to run away and get out of combat, whether that's via movespeed, cloak, invis pot, etc then I think you've successfully escaped and can port out of IC.
There are some concerns about getting stuck in walls and not being able to port out. But I think the answer is to close your game client and hope you don't die while logging out. When you log back in, you should be in your faction's base in the sewers where you can drop off your Tel Var.
Honestly just make it so that you can't start a new queue while in combat. I understand people that go to IC while queued for Cyro or a BG, and in that case sure; accept the queue whenever it pops. If you just prevent people from starting a new queue in the middle of combat then the problem is solved without hurting the people that use IC as a holding area for other PvP.
Not to mention, anyone complaining about stuck in combat in IC seems to be exaggerating - you're almost never stuck in combat in IC, and if you do get stuck, simply going to a door with the porch invincibility buff and leaving your group fixes it 100% of the time.3 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭This shouldn't be stopped. Only way to get out of combat. AND to que for a BG. Plus, you might just decide to go to IC or from IC to Cyro.
Why is this a problem? They take this out, you will NEVER get out of combat. You will NEVER be able to leave.
Because apparently having a few people unfairly port out of IC means that everyone else should be punished.
Until at least the stuck in combat bug is fixed, I don’t care what anyone has to say about fixing this “issue”.5 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stafford197 wrote: »Until at least the stuck in combat bug is fixed, I don’t care what anyone has to say about fixing this “issue”.
"stuck in combat" isn't an excuse to allow escaping PvP, especially in a PvPvE zone designed for risk/reward.
Even if you're stuck in combat in IC, you can still use doors and sewer entrance/exits.
If you want to leave IC while stuck in combat, change districts and go up into the invulnerable area. Then close game and log back and you will be out of combat. Or you can hide somewhere and close your game as well.
Edited by SkaraMinoc on October 25, 2024 11:47PMPC NA0 -
MedicInTheWild✭✭✭Id rather them fix the dcing and lag, this game is going down fast with the longevity of issues.
Medic
All platforms and servers4 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭baguette_poolish wrote: »In any other pvp game that players combat log it leads to a suspension of couple of days or hours. It's time to make sure these "pvpers" start pvping Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith
I completely agree with you here! Combat logging disrupts the PvP experience for everyone, and other games do take it seriously by penalizing it. In ESO, enforcing a temporary suspension or similar penalty would encourage fair play and hold players accountable for staying in combat.
As for auto-queue addons, they definitely give an unfair advantage by allowing players to skip around the PvP queue system in ways that go against the spirit of the game. Restricting these kinds of addons would help ensure that everyone’s following the same rules and fully engaging with the content. If someone’s queuing for PvP, they should be ready to fight—not just pop in and out without consequence.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
darvaria✭✭✭✭✭Why would a player get a suspension for doing something that has always been in the game. Players have the option of going to a campaign or either version of IC. You can NOT skip around the PvP queue system. You are placed in the normal queue.
What is not being considered is that players want to go back and forth between campaigns. What about players that have waited 30 minutes in queue for GH but are passing time in BR? They would lose their place. Changing this offers no benefits and would create a lot of problems. I often pass time before BG queue at resources or even forts. I don't want to miss this queue because I'm "in combat". Basically, you are always "stuck in combat". You'll never get to go to another place because you will always be "stuck in combat". What does it matter if you leave while "stuck in combat".1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
I agree. I do not see what the issue is with Cyrodiil, but IC is a very different story, as players can farm Tel Var without risk by porting out if they are losing a fight.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
True, but again, just because your opponent vanishes mid fight doesn't mean they're abusing the system. People are quick to assume others are acting in bad faith, but I'm convinced that a lot (not saying all) of those instances are people who legitimately, finally, got their Gray Host queue to finish. There's no way to tell the difference, so people who always assume the worst should consider other reasons than just exploits.
There has been an addon, and maybe it still is, as I do not use it, to queue to go to a Cyrodiil instance instantly. It was designed to get out of combat in IC to avoid losing Tel Var. I learned about it from friends with whom I used to farm IC.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭By the way, if for some reason I was so scared or concerned about dying in a fight in Cyrodiil and there was a punishment for porting out mid-fight, oops, I lost my internet connection (alt+f4). No suspension for me, and I LOLOLOLOL while logging back into the game.
Zenimax cannot suspend players because their game crashed or their internet connection was lost while in Cyrodiil. All campaigns would be empty.
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Iriidius✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »Porting out of Cyrodiil is whatever in my opinion. The big offender are those who abuse the system to get out of imperial city as a way to bypass the intended design with sigil of imperial retreat (as a way to avoid losing telvar). Made a thread about this some time ago but it got derailed by people who think it´s fine to abuse a flawed system like this just because it happen to benefit their telvar farming (which completely removes the entire risk/reward design of IC)
This. Its whatever in cyrodiil, stuck in combat is obviously a thing and at the end of the day people who are using it to avoid combat just show how scared they are of you.
But in Imperial City, it circumvents the entire core risk/reward system and is essentially an exploit. It's even worse when people on PC utilize addons that can activate the queue with a hotkey, and automatically accept it seconds later without any further input from the player.
Previously I supported the ability to port out of IC but now I change my stance.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8171049/#Comment_8171049
You should not be able to escape PvP in a PvPvE zone. This defeats the entire purpose of PvPvE which is risk/reward. It was less common before someone released an auto port addon. But now it's being used by many players and it's clear that it goes against the spirit of PvP.
I think the fix is to prevent porting out while in combat,, even if there's a stuck in combat bug. If you're able to run away and get out of combat, whether that's via movespeed, cloak, invis pot, etc then I think you've successfully escaped and can port out of IC.
There are some concerns about getting stuck in walls and not being able to port out. But I think the answer is to close your game client and hope you don't die while logging out. When you log back in, you should be in your faction's base in the sewers where you can drop off your Tel Var.
Honestly just make it so that you can't start a new queue while in combat. I understand people that go to IC while queued for Cyro or a BG, and in that case sure; accept the queue whenever it pops. If you just prevent people from starting a new queue in the middle of combat then the problem is solved without hurting the people that use IC as a holding area for other PvP.
Not to mention, anyone complaining about stuck in combat in IC seems to be exaggerating - you're almost never stuck in combat in IC, and if you do get stuck, simply going to a door with the porch invincibility buff and leaving your group fixes it 100% of the time.
Combat Bug got worse and worse over the Years, nowadays when I change district while in combat or respawn I am still in combat even when ungrouped. Wayshrines also stopped working while in combat when they have worked in the past so you cant use wayshrine to leave Cyrodiil while in combat althought if you are at wayshrine no other player is nor should be able to kill you.
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Iriidius✭✭✭✭baguette_poolish wrote: »In any other pvp game that players combat log it leads to a suspension of couple of days or hours. It's time to make sure these "pvpers" start pvping Might be good to look at the addon that makes it so you can auto accept the queue and restrict it since players can't be trusted to use it in good faith
I completely agree with you here! Combat logging disrupts the PvP experience for everyone, and other games do take it seriously by penalizing it. In ESO, enforcing a temporary suspension or similar penalty would encourage fair play and hold players accountable for staying in combat.
As for auto-queue addons, they definitely give an unfair advantage by allowing players to skip around the PvP queue system in ways that go against the spirit of the game. Restricting these kinds of addons would help ensure that everyone’s following the same rules and fully engaging with the content. If someone’s queuing for PvP, they should be ready to fight—not just pop in and out without consequence.
There is no fair play in Cyrodiil, everyone is attacking outnumbered players on sight and avoiding fair fights (or outnumbered fights but usually cant avoid/escape them). If someone fights you equal numbered it is usually only to call their friends and zerg you down.
If a player ports out it is usually because the players fighting him are not playing fair and forcing him into an unwinable fight he did not agree to.
Players outnumbering others also do not play fair and avoid risk in IC more than a solo player porting out.1