What happened during Necrom Development? Feels weird

cptscotty

Just finally went through the Necrom chapter's content and when finishing it I felt like I was missing a ton of content after just finishing previous chapters. Necrom seems to only have 2 dungeons, one main story, and...thats it. High Isle had...2 dungeons, followed by a main story for High Isle, 2 more dungeons, followed by a main story for Galen, then an Epilogue. So in total 5 main chunks of story content. Same model for all previous chapters.

I didnt play Necrom live so I am at a loss as to what happened during that time to cause this. What was the reasoning behind giving less than half the content other chapters gave? It couldnt possibly be the new class because other chapters had new classes and still did the 5 main chunks of content. Infinite Archive was for everyone so not exclusive to Necrom.

What am I missing? Feels weird after finishing this chapter. Is there some DLC I am missing? Some new area?

Syldras

No, you didn't miss anything. They removed the 2 dungeons and the second story zone that would usually be released in autumn and winter of a year in favor of "bug fixing and quality of life improvements".

Instead of the usual Q4 story dlc, the story is continued (and finished) in the Gold Road "chapter" (that doesn't have much more content than the usual Q4 story dlcs had, but was sold for a normal chapter price nonetheless).

And unless they announce a change at the end of this year, it will probably remain like this.

colossalvoids

It continues in the last chapter, not a self contained story still. We've lost more dlc releases recently to a bug fix quarters but the problem is that those bug fixes weren't what people expected - game is junky as before, nothing has changed for the better. So more is lost while nothing was gained.

ESO_player123

The working theory here on the forums is that Gold Road was initially designed to be Q4 for the same year Necom was released but then was promoted to the chapter status due to the changes in release format. Of course, it's just a theory with just feelings and no proof.

cptscotty

The game is more broken now than I have ever seen it. To the point I have lost a lot of my groups as they left for other games leaving me to search elsewhere to find members for organized group content. So it cant be because of spending time on bugs. I still have bugs live that have been present since I reported them when I played years ago.

That just sucks. Such a big let down after finishing the High Isle chapters content. Damn.

Is there DLC and more story planned for Gold Road?!?!

Syldras

cptscotty wrote: »

Is there DLC and more story planned for Gold Road?!?!

There's an epilogue after Gold Road that starts if you have finished both Necrom and Gold Road (on the same character). But other than that, no more content. The "story arc" (they called it that, so I too did expect a bit more) is over at that point.

What comes next year, we'll see. It will be a new story, though.

cptscotty

Well that definitely feels depressing.

tsaescishoeshiner

Galen is a completely different DLC than High Isle. Since Necrom's Story finishes in Gold Road, a full Chapter instead of a Story DLC, it's technically a bigger two-part story.

But we didn't get any zone story DLC content last year or this year for Q4.

For me, Necrom + Gold Road were longer than High Isle + Galen for sure, but they're split up over two years.

Many players had requested quality of life updates and reworks of old features instead of new content for a long time. That now seems to be what we're getting.

It's also been hinted that the story might continue in some way, so we'll see what next year holds. The way that Gold Road's epilogue ended (if you finish Necrom and do the additional quests), could be final or could be something new. I'm down for a completely separate story personally (just because it seems like time, and these quests were very save-the-worldy).

cptscotty

So...they moved DLC out of the subscriptions inclusion and made them instead forced to be purchased and thus no DLC inclusion in the subscription?

Has there been any new DLC in the last 2 years since Firesong (2022) in High Isle that would be included with the subscription?

cptscotty

Hmm just realized the dungeons are kept separate from the chapters. Well damn. I thought one of the selling features was the new chapters included dungeons and a trial

SeaGtGruff

cptscotty wrote: »

Hmm just realized the dungeons are kept separate from the chapters. Well damn. I thought one of the selling features was the new chapters included dungeons and a trial

No, new chapters have never included group dungeons; those have always been separate DLCs, even before the introduction of chapters, the only exception being the Imperial City DLC.

The other DLCs included new delves, and the chapters included new delves and new public dungeons, but they did not include new group dungeons.

spartaxoxo

They eliminated a second story DLC and a dungeon DLC for QOL Improvements in Q3 and big systems in Q4. Last year's system was Infinite Archive. The one coming up will be the Battlegrounds overhaul.

FlopsyPrince

These forums have had a lot of discussion about whether we are getting less for the cost.

Some say it remains wonderful, others are much more unhappy.

Seems like shrinkflation applied to an MMO in many ways to me.

Syldras

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Many players had requested quality of life updates and reworks of old features instead of new content for a long time. That now seems to be what we're getting.

I have not seen reworks of old features being requested, it was more about bug fixes and maybe adding a few smaller updates here and there (minor things like a search bar for the furniture crafting menu for example). Although I don't think "requested" is the right term in general. Some users said they could accept getting less new content if ZOS would finally fix some serious bugs. Which also didn't happen.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It's also been hinted that the story might continue in some way, so we'll see what next year holds. The way that Gold Road's epilogue ended (if you finish Necrom and do the additional quests), could be final or could be something new.

I think it was supposed to be the ending.

cptscotty wrote: »

Has there been any new DLC in the last 2 years since Firesong (2022) in High Isle that would be included with the subscription?

The 2 dungeons of Q1 every year.

tomofhyrule

I know a lot of people have been saying for ages that they'd have liked ZOS to release less content and focus some updates on just QoL fixing things. Well, we got it, but evidently the QoL and bugfixes weren't what people were hoping for.

That said, I'd like to go back to the old DLC schedule. I'm a dungeon fiend, so the fact that we got fewer dungeons is a bit sad to see, although I understand that dungeons are not exactly popular as a DLC for the general playerbase. I also liked having more zones to do stuff in as well, which did tend to be popular (and the Q4 stories tended to be better written than the Q2 ones over the last few years).

Now we did get IA in Q4 last year, which was a great update. But the only big things this year were the addition of Home Tours and the BG revamp, both of which are pretty niche and also seem like a thing that's normally done in addition to a tentpole instead of as the tentpole feature itself.

My secret hope though is that they've been using that dev time to do some backend work to reduce database size (we've seen some of that with the listing time changes) so that they can pull out something big as the feature next year, and I'm hoping it's an eighth class.

Besides the idea that 7 is just such an odd number while 8 is much more even (and fits perfectly with 4 base and 4 DLC classes), they're also doing the whole revamp on the tutorial which we haven't had since Blackwood, and it'd be great for the vet players to have an excuse to make a new character and experience the OG tutorial but revamped that they're doing with this update. I also have my personal bias here, since one of the things they released this year just inspired an entire backstory for me and I am dying to actually make this character in the flesh instead of just looking at my Google Doc and wishing.

It's also the fact that new classes tend to bring more hype. I know that I've watched the reveal for every Chapter since Greymoor, and the big features (Antiquities, Companions, Tales of Tribute, Scribing) left me feeling 'meh.' They were fun enough, but not a giant hype machine. But when they announced Arcanist, my hype was instantly at maximum. I also get the same feeling from the forums — non-Class features don't tend to bring anywhere near the level of hype that a Class does. And after this year (the 10th anniversary) doing several things that left people feeling dejected, they really need a good hype machine. I know if they do announce a new class, I'm preordering the next Chapter sight unseen, which I can't say for any other feature.

katanagirl1

I don’t miss the dungeons and keeping up with the ever increasing number of motifs that the game has generated, but I do miss having another zone to explore. When the idea was brought up about sacrificing one quarter content for QoL and bug fixes, I was adamantly against it. I knew what would happen, and that we would never go back to what we had again. I also knew that the level of bug fixes envisioned by players would not be what we would get as well. So…here we are.

SeaGtGruff

Syldras wrote: »

I have not seen reworks of old features being requested, it was more about bug fixes and maybe adding a few smaller updates here and there (minor things like a search bar for the furniture crafting menu for example).

I thought the requests to rework old content were mostly about updating the quality of the graphics in older zones to be more on a par with newer zones?

Requests for bug fixes and quality-of-life improvements aren’t really specific to older content, aside from specific bugs in specific content that have been around for many years. The age of the content shouldn’t be pertinent to bug fixes, other than maybe being a factor in deciding which bugs have greater priority on the list of things to fix.

Syldras

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I thought the requests to rework old content were mostly about updating the quality of the graphics in older zones to be more on a par with newer zones?

It's a suggestion that comes up sometimes (although not as often as some other ideas), but I have never seen anyone suggesting to do this instead of releasing new content.

Necrotech_Master

i dont really see where we are getting less content for the same price

the old release format:
2 dungeon dlc = its own cost
chapter = its own cost
2 dungeon dlc = its own cost
zone dlc = its own cost (if did not get it for free)

the new format:
2 dungeon dlc = its own cost
chapter = its own cost
Q3 update = no cost
Q4 update = no cost

Q3 and Q4 content updates are smaller as they are usually focused on 1-2 features, and mostly bugfixes, but we are getting them for free

"content" does not always equal new zone or quests

the infinite archive to me was one of the best things they have added to the game in recent years and was not paid DLC content

Syldras

Weren't the dungeon dlcs free for people who have ESO+? Also they often gave away the Q4 dlcs for free (as a login or event reward). Plus, the summer chapter this year also had a smaller map and less quests than the chapters before had.

Necrotech_Master

Syldras wrote: »

Weren't the dungeon dlcs free for people who have ESO+? Also they often gave away the Q4 dlcs for free (as a login or event reward). Plus, the summer chapter this year also had a smaller map and less quests than the chapters before had.

dungeon dlcs are "accessible" if you have eso+, but if you lost eso+ you lost access to the dungeon DLC, so it still requires purchase to keep it permanently

and yes while they did give away the Q4 zone dlc several times, anyone who missed that wont get that content for free right now, if you started a new acct right now, without eso+ you would have to buy deadlands, or galen to have access to it

so technically speaking they still have a cost

would have to lookup a comparison on # of quests of say summerset and gold road to accurately make a judgement on if its less content in the chapter

in terms of physical zone size, summerset is most definitely larger than west weald (theres only like 4 mirrormoor incursions in west weald, but 6 geysers in summerset for example)

Syldras

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

would have to lookup a comparison on # of quests of say summerset and gold road to accurately make a judgement on if its less content in the chapter

I'm too lazy to count them once more (already did that several times, as this topic isn't new in the forum), but I can still remember that Morrowind had over 70 quests while the newer chapters only have around 50 (and 3 of them are the epilogue, not sure whether that should count or should be considered something seperate), which had formerly been a number closer to the winter dlc.

Necrotech_Master

Syldras wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

would have to lookup a comparison on # of quests of say summerset and gold road to accurately make a judgement on if its less content in the chapter

I'm too lazy to count them once more (already did that several times, as this topic isn't new in the forum), but I can still remember that Morrowind had over 70 quests while the newer chapters only have around 50 (and 3 of them are the epilogue, not sure whether that should count or should be considered something seperate), which had formerly been a number closer to the winter dlc.

i know the numbers have been posted around for sure, but i dont remember them off my head either lol

i personally wouldnt count epilogue quests since those require doing multiple different chapters/dlc in many cases

for me, pure quantity of quests is not always a good number to go on, as i would prefer quality over quantity (would you rather do 40 mindless fetch quests, or 10 polished intriguing stories? and yes i know quest "quality" is going to mean different things to different people for an overall rating)

so if its 70 quests vs 50, but the quality of those 20 quest difference is poor, then the content would still be about equal for me

those adventurer achievements that count doing 90% of the quests in zone also count repeatable stuff the first time too (dailies, "simple" non repeatable quests like the ones that introduce you to the daily givers, etc)

LunaFlora

Syldras wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

would have to lookup a comparison on # of quests of say summerset and gold road to accurately make a judgement on if its less content in the chapter

I'm too lazy to count them once more (already did that several times, as this topic isn't new in the forum), but I can still remember that Morrowind had over 70 quests while the newer chapters only have around 50 (and 3 of them are the epilogue, not sure whether that should count or should be considered something seperate), which had formerly been a number closer to the winter dlc.

Syldras wrote: »

Weren't the dungeon dlcs free for people who have ESO+? Also they often gave away the Q4 dlcs for free (as a login or event reward). Plus, the summer chapter this year also had a smaller map and less quests than the chapters before had.

it's possible i miscounted but it's roughly 40 story quests for each chapter, unless you count the daily quests.

recently i counted chapter quests for high isle and morrowind, excluding repeatable quests.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:High_Isle
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vvardenfell

Vvardenfell:
- 7 zone story quests
- 4 Morag Tong story quests
- 5 House of Telvanni story quests
- 24 other side quests
40 in total

High isle:
- 7 zone story quests
- 5 Tales of Tribute story quests
- 8 companion story quests
- 23 other side quests
43 in total

and for the other chapters it's,
Gold Road:
- 12 zone story quests including the epilogue
- 6 Scribing quests
- 24 side quests
42 in total
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:West_Weald
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Scholarium

Summerset:
- 9 zone story quests
- 34 side quests
43 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Summerset

Northern Elsweyr:
- 8 zone story quests
- 32 side quests
40 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Northern_Elsweyr

Western Skyrim:
- 7 zone story quests
- 34 side quests
41 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Western_Skyrim

Blackwood:
- 7 zone story quests
- 6 companion quests
- 25 side quests
38 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Blackwood

Necrom:
- 9 zone story quests
- 8 companion quests
- 24 side quests
41 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Telvanni_Peninsula
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Apocrypha

i don't know if West Weald is smaller than past chapters, how would you even measure that?
but it has a similar amount of quests.
and it doesn't have a Volcano or other mountains in the middle of the zone like Vvardenfell and Summerset which might make it seem smaller.

cptscotty

One thing I noticed with Gold Road is that the "Side Quests" are the zone quests. A zone quest in Gold Road is go over to this location and do the side quests. That "zone quest" still gets counted but really its just a pointer to do the side quests.

Only chapter I can remember that followed that model. Usually there is a zone quest AND a side quest in the same area...not combined.

sarahthes

LunaFlora wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

would have to lookup a comparison on # of quests of say summerset and gold road to accurately make a judgement on if its less content in the chapter

I'm too lazy to count them once more (already did that several times, as this topic isn't new in the forum), but I can still remember that Morrowind had over 70 quests while the newer chapters only have around 50 (and 3 of them are the epilogue, not sure whether that should count or should be considered something seperate), which had formerly been a number closer to the winter dlc.

Syldras wrote: »

Weren't the dungeon dlcs free for people who have ESO+? Also they often gave away the Q4 dlcs for free (as a login or event reward). Plus, the summer chapter this year also had a smaller map and less quests than the chapters before had.

it's possible i miscounted but it's roughly 40 story quests for each chapter, unless you count the daily quests.

recently i counted chapter quests for high isle and morrowind, excluding repeatable quests.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:High_Isle
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vvardenfell

Vvardenfell:
- 7 zone story quests
- 4 Morag Tong story quests
- 5 House of Telvanni story quests
- 24 other side quests
40 in total

High isle:
- 7 zone story quests
- 5 Tales of Tribute story quests
- 8 companion story quests
- 23 other side quests
43 in total

and for the other chapters it's,
Gold Road:
- 12 zone story quests including the epilogue
- 6 Scribing quests
- 24 side quests
42 in total
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:West_Weald
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Scholarium

Summerset:
- 9 zone story quests
- 34 side quests
43 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Summerset

Northern Elsweyr:
- 8 zone story quests
- 32 side quests
40 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Northern_Elsweyr

Western Skyrim:
- 7 zone story quests
- 34 side quests
41 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Western_Skyrim

Blackwood:
- 7 zone story quests
- 6 companion quests
- 25 side quests
38 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Blackwood

Necrom:
- 9 zone story quests
- 8 companion quests
- 24 side quests
41 in total
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Telvanni_Peninsula
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Apocrypha

i don't know if West Weald is smaller than past chapters, how would you even measure that?
but it has a similar amount of quests.
and it doesn't have a Volcano or other mountains in the middle of the zone like Vvardenfell and Summerset which might make it seem smaller.

Maybe it's just that 6 of the associated quests don't actually take place in Gold Road that makes it feel smaller?

LunaFlora

sarahthes wrote: »

Maybe it's just that 6 of the associated quests don't actually take place in Gold Road that makes it feel smaller?

other chapters also have that though.
Most of the psjic order, tribute, and companion quests take place in other zones.

Necrotech_Master

cptscotty wrote: »

One thing I noticed with Gold Road is that the "Side Quests" are the zone quests. A zone quest in Gold Road is go over to this location and do the side quests. That "zone quest" still gets counted but really its just a pointer to do the side quests.

Only chapter I can remember that followed that model. Usually there is a zone quest AND a side quest in the same area...not combined.

necrom actually did that too a little bit, one of the first quests leramil gives you in necrom is to "go to these 3 locations" and do the quests there (which made quest tracking on that incredibly annoying because it didnt complete the primary quest until those other 3 quests were finished)

the "fates proxy" quest which wanted you to go to 3 areas and then complete other quests at those POIs ("keeper of the fate", "spirit of fate", "fates lost dream")

cptscotty

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

One thing I noticed with Gold Road is that the "Side Quests" are the zone quests. A zone quest in Gold Road is go over to this location and do the side quests. That "zone quest" still gets counted but really its just a pointer to do the side quests.

Only chapter I can remember that followed that model. Usually there is a zone quest AND a side quest in the same area...not combined.

necrom actually did that too a little bit, one of the first quests leramil gives you in necrom is to "go to these 3 locations" and do the quests there (which made quest tracking on that incredibly annoying because it didnt complete the primary quest until those other 3 quests were finished)

the "fates proxy" quest which wanted you to go to 3 areas and then complete other quests at those POIs ("keeper of the fate", "spirit of fate", "fates lost dream")

Yeah it gets counted in the charts and on paper as 2 quests...but in reality its just the 1 quest.

Necrotech_Master

cptscotty wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

One thing I noticed with Gold Road is that the "Side Quests" are the zone quests. A zone quest in Gold Road is go over to this location and do the side quests. That "zone quest" still gets counted but really its just a pointer to do the side quests.

Only chapter I can remember that followed that model. Usually there is a zone quest AND a side quest in the same area...not combined.

necrom actually did that too a little bit, one of the first quests leramil gives you in necrom is to "go to these 3 locations" and do the quests there (which made quest tracking on that incredibly annoying because it didnt complete the primary quest until those other 3 quests were finished)

the "fates proxy" quest which wanted you to go to 3 areas and then complete other quests at those POIs ("keeper of the fate", "spirit of fate", "fates lost dream")

Yeah it gets counted in the charts and on paper as 2 quests...but in reality its just the 1 quest.

technically 4 quests, though in essence i agree its still basically the 1 quest (which had no substance) and 3 POI quests padding it

goes back to my point earlier about quest quality over quantity lol

sunsrest

yeah.. a second smaller zone would have been nice for all us questers

there is also the theory that it's related to ZOS moving a lot of people to work on some other project internally and keeping a smaller team on ESO, not sure if true but possible