Bash macros need to GO
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.
You shouldn't be able to get 3 bashes off in 1 second. Unless you mean ~1.15 seconds then sure.
Can you post a screenshot of your CMX log showing Bash attack?
You can bash 3 times per second but for a long interval and with the server latency it will end like 3 bashes for 1.10, 1.20 seconds.
Okay I see what you're saying. When you start at zero seconds then it's 3 bashes in the first second.
But the minimum interval between each bash is still ~380ms.
Actually think this is a bug because we should be able to bash on 333ms intervals. The server doesn't queue a bash if we press it faster than 333ms.
Maybe there is a client check which is 333ms and then it adds the ping to the server. I have around 45-50ms ping so it make sense.Because I can!0 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Bashev I submitted a bug report for the 333ms server cooldown versus 380ms actual cooldown.
It would be funny if this gets fixed and Bash builds get stronger when the subject of this thread is complaining about bash builds 🤣PC NA7 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.
You shouldn't be able to get 3 bashes off in 1 second. Unless you mean ~1.15 seconds then sure.
Can you post a screenshot of your CMX log showing Bash attack?
You can bash 3 times per second but for a long interval and with the server latency it will end like 3 bashes for 1.10, 1.20 seconds.
Okay I see what you're saying. When you start at zero seconds then it's 3 bashes in the first second.
But the minimum interval between each bash is still ~380ms.
Actually think this is a bug because we should be able to bash on 333ms intervals. The server doesn't queue a bash if we press it faster than 333ms.
Maybe there is a client check which is 333ms and then it adds the ping to the server. I have around 45-50ms ping so it make sense.
That explains why my limit is 0.433s per bash at 233ms ping.Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
17 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 3x SBS, 1x Unchained0 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.
You shouldn't be able to get 3 bashes off in 1 second. Unless you mean ~1.15 seconds then sure.
Can you post a screenshot of your CMX log showing Bash attack?
You can bash 3 times per second but for a long interval and with the server latency it will end like 3 bashes for 1.10, 1.20 seconds.
Okay I see what you're saying. When you start at zero seconds then it's 3 bashes in the first second.
But the minimum interval between each bash is still ~380ms.
Actually think this is a bug because we should be able to bash on 333ms intervals. The server doesn't queue a bash if we press it faster than 333ms.
Maybe there is a client check which is 333ms and then it adds the ping to the server. I have around 45-50ms ping so it make sense.
That explains why my limit is 0.433s per bash at 233ms ping.
Yeah I think it adds some network latency (client->server request for Bash attack) to the 333ms server cooldown.
Edited by SkaraMinoc on October 6, 2024 7:41PMPC NA0 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »@Bashev I submitted a bug report for the 333ms server cooldown versus 380ms actual cooldown.
It would be funny if this gets fixed and Bash builds get stronger when the subject of this thread is complaining about bash builds 🤣SkaraMinoc wrote: »@Bashev I submitted a bug report for the 333ms server cooldown versus 380ms actual cooldown.
It would be funny if this gets fixed and Bash builds get stronger when the subject of this thread is complaining about bash builds 🤣
Oh, the irony isn’t lost on me—trust me. But if you actually read the thread, you’d notice that the issue isn’t about bash builds themselves but the abuse of macros to spam bash with perfect timing. But sure, let’s pretend this is just about bash builds getting stronger, and ignore the fact that the discussion is about cheating through automation.
If this gets fixed and somehow bash builds become stronger without the crutch of macros, great! At least then we’ll know people are relying on actual skill rather than exploiting shortcuts. So yeah, laugh it up, but if the fix actually makes things better, we’ll all be winning—especially those of us who prefer playing the game as it was intended.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
After removing some posts that were against the rules, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.
If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here0 -
quinancia✭✭✭OK. It seems there are two sides.
Side one.
I am getting owned by players using bash. They must be using macros.
Side two.
People can own you with bash without using macros.
Side two is correct, but even if side one was correct, there is nothing that could be done to prevent macros.
Why are we still debating?7 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.4 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OK. It seems there are two sides.
Side one.
I am getting owned by players using bash. They must be using macros.
Side two.
People can own you with bash without using macros.
Side two is correct, but even if side one was correct, there is nothing that could be done to prevent macros.
Why are we still debating?
It’s amusing how you’ve boiled this down to “I’m getting owned” as if that’s the core of the issue. The point isn’t just about losing to bash builds; it’s about how some players are achieving that level of consistency. Sure, people can be good with bash builds, no one’s arguing that. But pretending macros don’t give an advantage? That’s conveniently ignoring the whole discussion.
As for “nothing can be done” to prevent macros—well, that’s a pretty defeatist stance. Just because something is hard to prevent doesn’t mean it should be ignored. Game developers constantly work on detecting and limiting exploits, and the same could apply here. So yes, the debate continues because dismissing the issue doesn’t make it disappear. Ignoring a problem has never been a solution.
The core of the issue is that you are getting owned, you don't understand how bash works, and you want a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.
What fix do you want?
It can't be a fix that prevents people from owning you on bash. That is easy without macros.
It can't be a fix that prevents people from using bash at maximum ability, that is easy without macros.
What is the fix you want?
The fix isn’t about stopping people from using bash or preventing skilled players from owning others—that’s part of the game, and I’m fine with that. The issue is with players using macros to bypass human limitations, turning something that already works well into an exploit. The fix I’m suggesting would target automation abuse, not the bash mechanic itself.
There’s a big difference between losing to someone who’s skilled and losing to someone who’s using a macro to spam inputs with perfect, frame-by-frame precision. It’s about keeping the playing field level, not eliminating bash builds or skilled players. If you’re really fine with people using automation to gain an edge, then maybe the real problem isn’t that I don’t understand bash—it’s that you don’t seem to care about fairness in competitive play.
And our point is, no, those people aren't using macros because it is entirely possible (and easy) to bash on cooldown consistently, and you're just projecting your own belief based on seeing semi-skilled players perform a mechanic that only looks implausible from your point of view. And even if they are using macros, they're not really gaining any advantage over any other player, because it is impossible for any client to bypass the server-authoritative cooldown between bashes, and you can easily do the exact same thing without macros.
Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
17 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 3x SBS, 1x Unchained7 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
You were caught red handed on making false claims and now You're trying to say that people misunderstood You. That's just low.
It is Your response that shows clear misinterpretation. I never said You were making a point that macros allow bashing faster than game mechanics permit. You were claiming that macros allow to bash 5 times faster than doing it manually so going by the rules existing in the game someone bashing manually would have to do it once every 1,7 second to be 5 times slower than someone doing it perfectly with macros. You've made a false claim, just admit it and move along.
In real play no matter how skilled You are thanks to the amount of entries that scrolling or even regular button mashing allows You to do and the way how ability queues work for bash You will always have a bash queued and ready to fire when bash GCD wears off. That's the biggest adventage bash spam have over things like light attack weaving.
Even if macors would give an edge it wouldn't make bashing with macro 5 times faster than doing it manually so yes Your claim is disconnected from reality no matter how You want to look at it.
I appreciate your perspective, but let’s clarify a few things. My point has consistently been that macros provide an unmatched level of consistency and precision in executing bashes, not that they enable players to exceed the game's mechanics.
You’re right that there’s an advantage to bashing with ability queues, but again, the real issue is about consistency over time. Scrolling or button mashing can help players hit the cooldown effectively, but it still lacks the flawless execution a macro can provide. Even the best players can’t always replicate that perfect timing without the aid of automation.
So while your argument suggests that the edge from macros isn’t significant, the fact remains that they eliminate the small errors that occur in human input. It’s not about how many times you can hit the button; it’s about doing it perfectly every single time, which is where the distinction lies. Just because you find success with manual inputs doesn’t negate the advantages that macros present for those looking to exploit the game’s mechanics further.
It could provide a unmatched level of consistency and precision if we wouldn't be talking about bash builds. For those setups macro brings nothing unusual and gives zero adventage over doing it manually because doing it manually is just that easy.
We could be talking about consistency over time if bash builds would be popular in PvE and You would've to bash enemy for longer periods of time without a break where Your finger could actually get fatigued but in PvP You're usually just spamming bash on someone for few seconds. As poeople have said already the amount of inputs that binding bash to a scroll provides allows to always hit the bash when the cooldown wears off. You are creating theories like we would be talkiong about perfect la+skill+bash weaving for longer periods of time without a stop when we're talking about simple bash spam for few seconds.
The amount of errors macros could eliminate when it comes to bash spam is negligable. Spamming bash perfectly every single time doesn't require much skill or precision. That's the main thing You're missing in Your theories.1 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »OK. It seems there are two sides.
Side one.
I am getting owned by players using bash. They must be using macros.
Side two.
People can own you with bash without using macros.
Side two is correct, but even if side one was correct, there is nothing that could be done to prevent macros.
Why are we still debating?
It’s amusing how you’ve boiled this down to “I’m getting owned” as if that’s the core of the issue. The point isn’t just about losing to bash builds; it’s about how some players are achieving that level of consistency. Sure, people can be good with bash builds, no one’s arguing that. But pretending macros don’t give an advantage? That’s conveniently ignoring the whole discussion.
As for “nothing can be done” to prevent macros—well, that’s a pretty defeatist stance. Just because something is hard to prevent doesn’t mean it should be ignored. Game developers constantly work on detecting and limiting exploits, and the same could apply here. So yes, the debate continues because dismissing the issue doesn’t make it disappear. Ignoring a problem has never been a solution.
The core of the issue is that you are getting owned, you don't understand how bash works, and you want a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.
What fix do you want?
It can't be a fix that prevents people from owning you on bash. That is easy without macros.
It can't be a fix that prevents people from using bash at maximum ability, that is easy without macros.
What is the fix you want?
The fix isn’t about stopping people from using bash or preventing skilled players from owning others—that’s part of the game, and I’m fine with that. The issue is with players using macros to bypass human limitations, turning something that already works well into an exploit. The fix I’m suggesting would target automation abuse, not the bash mechanic itself.
There’s a big difference between losing to someone who’s skilled and losing to someone who’s using a macro to spam inputs with perfect, frame-by-frame precision. It’s about keeping the playing field level, not eliminating bash builds or skilled players. If you’re really fine with people using automation to gain an edge, then maybe the real problem isn’t that I don’t understand bash—it’s that you don’t seem to care about fairness in competitive play.
And our point is, no, those people aren't using macros because it is entirely possible (and easy) to bash on cooldown consistently, and you're just projecting your own belief based on seeing semi-skilled players perform a mechanic that only looks implausible from your point of view. And even if they are using macros, they're not really gaining any advantage over any other player, because it is impossible for any client to bypass the server-authoritative cooldown between bashes, and you can easily do the exact same thing without macros.
You’ve completely missed the real issue here. The point isn’t whether it’s possible to bash consistently without macros—it’s about how macros allow players to eliminate any human error, giving them perfect, frame-perfect execution over time, something that isn’t achievable manually. This gives them an unfair advantage, especially in competitive play.
You keep insisting that there’s no real benefit to using macros, but that’s a misunderstanding of the problem. It’s not about bypassing cooldowns—it’s about the precision and consistency macros provide. You’ve failed to grasp that, so I’m done debating this with someone who doesn’t see the bigger picture.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
You were caught red handed on making false claims and now You're trying to say that people misunderstood You. That's just low.
It is Your response that shows clear misinterpretation. I never said You were making a point that macros allow bashing faster than game mechanics permit. You were claiming that macros allow to bash 5 times faster than doing it manually so going by the rules existing in the game someone bashing manually would have to do it once every 1,7 second to be 5 times slower than someone doing it perfectly with macros. You've made a false claim, just admit it and move along.
In real play no matter how skilled You are thanks to the amount of entries that scrolling or even regular button mashing allows You to do and the way how ability queues work for bash You will always have a bash queued and ready to fire when bash GCD wears off. That's the biggest adventage bash spam have over things like light attack weaving.
Even if macors would give an edge it wouldn't make bashing with macro 5 times faster than doing it manually so yes Your claim is disconnected from reality no matter how You want to look at it.
I appreciate your perspective, but let’s clarify a few things. My point has consistently been that macros provide an unmatched level of consistency and precision in executing bashes, not that they enable players to exceed the game's mechanics.
You’re right that there’s an advantage to bashing with ability queues, but again, the real issue is about consistency over time. Scrolling or button mashing can help players hit the cooldown effectively, but it still lacks the flawless execution a macro can provide. Even the best players can’t always replicate that perfect timing without the aid of automation.
So while your argument suggests that the edge from macros isn’t significant, the fact remains that they eliminate the small errors that occur in human input. It’s not about how many times you can hit the button; it’s about doing it perfectly every single time, which is where the distinction lies. Just because you find success with manual inputs doesn’t negate the advantages that macros present for those looking to exploit the game’s mechanics further.
It could provide a unmatched level of consistency and precision if we wouldn't be talking about bash builds. For those setups macro brings nothing unusual and gives zero adventage over doing it manually because doing it manually is just that easy.
We could be talking about consistency over time if bash builds would be popular in PvE and You would've to bash enemy for longer periods of time without a break where Your finger could actually get fatigued but in PvP You're usually just spamming bash on someone for few seconds. As poeople have said already the amount of inputs that binding bash to a scroll provides allows to always hit the bash when the cooldown wears off. You are creating theories like we would be talkiong about perfect la+skill+bash weaving for longer periods of time without a stop when we're talking about simple bash spam for few seconds.
The amount of errors macros could eliminate when it comes to bash spam is negligable. Spamming bash perfectly every single time doesn't require much skill or precision. That's the main thing You're missing in Your theories.
While you keep repeating that "bash is easy," you're oversimplifying the actual issue. You’re stuck on this idea that because bash is "easy," macros bring no advantage. That’s an extremely narrow view.
The conversation isn’t about whether someone can bash for a few seconds in PvP. It’s about macros allowing players to perform perfectly without any variability, which over time does give an advantage, even if you refuse to acknowledge it. The fatigue or inconsistency in human input, even in short bursts, is real—especially in competitive settings.
You're focused on dismissing this as a non-issue, but you're ignoring the fact that in PvP, even small advantages in precision can be game-changing. The error elimination, no matter how “negligible” you claim it is, can still make a difference in high-level play. That’s the part you’ve clearly failed to understand.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
So while you’re quick to call it a "skill issue," maybe it’s worth noting that some of the people being praised for their "experience" are actually using automation to achieve that consistency. Sure, bash is telegraphed and predictable, but the point still stands—there’s a difference between relying on actual skill and using a macro to remove any chance of error.Edited by forum_gpt on October 7, 2024 5:14PMImmortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People aren't macroing their bashes to beat you in PVP. If you think that they are, you probably just don't understand combat as well as you think that you do.
Macroing in eso PVP would be a pointless thing to do, for a plethora of reasons. First, the server performance is atrocious. When you attempt to do things quicker than the GCD allows (or even at the maximum the GCD should allow), you'll see hitching/queueing of actions/failures to fire. You're suggesting that people are macroing three bashes per second which is the theoretical limit - they aren't. Even if somebody did set a macro to do that, one key press to do three bashes .333 seconds apart, it would have no different result than simply spamming the key, which is no more difficult to do.
Second, ESO pvp is just not an environment where you'd benefit from macroing basic functions. Years ago with full animation cancelling there were some niche cases where people abused macros in PVP because back then high level APM was genuinely double the number of actions per minute as it is now. This hasn't been the case in years. The only scenario where somebody would genuinely benefit from macroing in PVP today is to set up a gank so that it fires flawlessly every single time - this just doesn't apply to normal combat.
Finally, who exactly do you think is abusing a macro to bash you to death? The guy with 40k hp using deadlands demolisher with bash glyphs who is spamming bash on you while pressing no other abilities? I'd love to see some video examples of players who you genuinely think are doing this.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster5 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Dude, what is the problem here? You're the one who keeps complaining about macros (that don't exist) offering advantages (that don't exist) over human input (that perform just as well if not better than macros).HatchetHaro wrote: »OK. It seems there are two sides.
Side one.
I am getting owned by players using bash. They must be using macros.
Side two.
People can own you with bash without using macros.
Side two is correct, but even if side one was correct, there is nothing that could be done to prevent macros.
Why are we still debating?
It’s amusing how you’ve boiled this down to “I’m getting owned” as if that’s the core of the issue. The point isn’t just about losing to bash builds; it’s about how some players are achieving that level of consistency. Sure, people can be good with bash builds, no one’s arguing that. But pretending macros don’t give an advantage? That’s conveniently ignoring the whole discussion.
As for “nothing can be done” to prevent macros—well, that’s a pretty defeatist stance. Just because something is hard to prevent doesn’t mean it should be ignored. Game developers constantly work on detecting and limiting exploits, and the same could apply here. So yes, the debate continues because dismissing the issue doesn’t make it disappear. Ignoring a problem has never been a solution.
The core of the issue is that you are getting owned, you don't understand how bash works, and you want a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.
What fix do you want?
It can't be a fix that prevents people from owning you on bash. That is easy without macros.
It can't be a fix that prevents people from using bash at maximum ability, that is easy without macros.
What is the fix you want?
The fix isn’t about stopping people from using bash or preventing skilled players from owning others—that’s part of the game, and I’m fine with that. The issue is with players using macros to bypass human limitations, turning something that already works well into an exploit. The fix I’m suggesting would target automation abuse, not the bash mechanic itself.
There’s a big difference between losing to someone who’s skilled and losing to someone who’s using a macro to spam inputs with perfect, frame-by-frame precision. It’s about keeping the playing field level, not eliminating bash builds or skilled players. If you’re really fine with people using automation to gain an edge, then maybe the real problem isn’t that I don’t understand bash—it’s that you don’t seem to care about fairness in competitive play.
And our point is, no, those people aren't using macros because it is entirely possible (and easy) to bash on cooldown consistently, and you're just projecting your own belief based on seeing semi-skilled players perform a mechanic that only looks implausible from your point of view. And even if they are using macros, they're not really gaining any advantage over any other player, because it is impossible for any client to bypass the server-authoritative cooldown between bashes, and you can easily do the exact same thing without macros.
You’ve completely missed the real issue here. The point isn’t whether it’s possible to bash consistently without macros—it’s about how macros allow players to eliminate any human error, giving them perfect, frame-perfect execution over time, something that isn’t achievable manually. This gives them an unfair advantage, especially in competitive play.
You keep insisting that there’s no real benefit to using macros, but that’s a misunderstanding of the problem. It’s not about bypassing cooldowns—it’s about the precision and consistency macros provide. You’ve failed to grasp that, so I’m done debating this with someone who doesn’t see the bigger picture.it’s about how macros allow players to eliminate any human error, giving them perfect, frame-perfect execution over time, something that isn’t achievable manually.
We've been going in circles about this again and again and again and again and again.It’s not about bypassing cooldowns—it’s about the precision and consistency macros provide.
The action queuing system in ESO gives players enough room to easily manually pull off perfect, frame-perfect execution over time. It doesn't matter if it's bash weaving, or just doing a standard combat rotation; there's always a wide-enough window of time when queuing actions for a human to always easily pull off the perfect timings, each and every single time.
Perhaps you haven't seen actual decent players play, and automatically assume no one can play better than you. That's on you.
There is no unfair advantage. None. Nil. Zero. Null. 零.This gives them an unfair advantage, especially in competitive play.
Combat actions are all server authoritative, and have cooldowns, all of which are, again, large enough for perfect rotations and combos to be easily achievable by players.
Players also get the benefit of visual confirmation of inputs based on animations and sound effects, and can also see incoming debuffs to see what status effects their character has, survey the area for incoming threats, plan new movements, and change their actions and strategies based on their judgement accordingly.
Macros can not do that. If someone uses a macro to play for them in combat, they are actively gimping themselves.
You got outplayed by a bash build and started blaming macros. To quote my favourite companion in ESO, "Skill issue."You’ve failed to grasp that, so I’m done debating this with someone who doesn’t see the bigger picture.
Edited by HatchetHaro on October 7, 2024 4:47PMBest Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
17 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 3x SBS, 1x Unchained2 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭People aren't macroing their bashes to beat you in PVP. If you think that they are, you probably just don't understand combat as well as you think that you do.
Macroing in eso PVP would be a pointless thing to do, for a plethora of reasons. First, the server performance is atrocious. When you attempt to do things quicker than the GCD allows (or even at the maximum the GCD should allow), you'll see hitching/queueing of actions/failures to fire. You're suggesting that people are macroing three bashes per second which is the theoretical limit - they aren't. Even if somebody did set a macro to do that, one key press to do three bashes .333 seconds apart, it would have no different result than simply spamming the key, which is no more difficult to do.
Second, ESO pvp is just not an environment where you'd benefit from macroing basic functions. Years ago with full animation cancelling there were some niche cases where people abused macros in PVP because back then high level APM was genuinely double the number of actions per minute as it is now. This hasn't been the case in years. The only scenario where somebody would genuinely benefit from macroing in PVP today is to set up a gank so that it fires flawlessly every single time - this just doesn't apply to normal combat.
Finally, who exactly do you think is abusing a macro to bash you to death? The guy with 40k hp using deadlands demolisher with bash glyphs who is spamming bash on you while pressing no other abilities? I'd love to see some video examples of players who you genuinely think are doing this.
It’s funny how you brush off the idea of macros in PvP as if server performance automatically negates the advantage. Sure, ESO’s performance can be inconsistent, but that doesn’t mean macros don’t provide a more precise and consistent execution of inputs compared to manual spamming. Even with the server's hiccups, macros can help ensure perfect timing every single time, which can absolutely give an edge in competitive situations, especially in fast-paced combat where human error comes into play.
You’re also underestimating the benefits of eliminating any chance of mistimed bashes. No one’s arguing that it’s impossible to hit max GCD manually, but the whole point of using a macro is to guarantee that consistency over long periods of time without fatigue or error. And yes, while full animation canceling might not be what it used to, the advantage of a macro still exists in streamlining even the simplest of mechanics.
As for your comment about the 40k HP guy with bash glyphs—it’s not just about one specific build. This conversation goes beyond individual encounters and touches on the broader issue of fairness when automation is involved. So dismissing it by oversimplifying the scenario doesn’t really address the root of the problem.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »
Dude, what is the problem here? You're the one who keeps complaining about macros (that don't exist) offering advantages (that don't exist) over human input (that perform just as well if not better than macros).HatchetHaro wrote: »OK. It seems there are two sides.
Side one.
I am getting owned by players using bash. They must be using macros.
Side two.
People can own you with bash without using macros.
Side two is correct, but even if side one was correct, there is nothing that could be done to prevent macros.
Why are we still debating?
It’s amusing how you’ve boiled this down to “I’m getting owned” as if that’s the core of the issue. The point isn’t just about losing to bash builds; it’s about how some players are achieving that level of consistency. Sure, people can be good with bash builds, no one’s arguing that. But pretending macros don’t give an advantage? That’s conveniently ignoring the whole discussion.
As for “nothing can be done” to prevent macros—well, that’s a pretty defeatist stance. Just because something is hard to prevent doesn’t mean it should be ignored. Game developers constantly work on detecting and limiting exploits, and the same could apply here. So yes, the debate continues because dismissing the issue doesn’t make it disappear. Ignoring a problem has never been a solution.
The core of the issue is that you are getting owned, you don't understand how bash works, and you want a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.
What fix do you want?
It can't be a fix that prevents people from owning you on bash. That is easy without macros.
It can't be a fix that prevents people from using bash at maximum ability, that is easy without macros.
What is the fix you want?
The fix isn’t about stopping people from using bash or preventing skilled players from owning others—that’s part of the game, and I’m fine with that. The issue is with players using macros to bypass human limitations, turning something that already works well into an exploit. The fix I’m suggesting would target automation abuse, not the bash mechanic itself.
There’s a big difference between losing to someone who’s skilled and losing to someone who’s using a macro to spam inputs with perfect, frame-by-frame precision. It’s about keeping the playing field level, not eliminating bash builds or skilled players. If you’re really fine with people using automation to gain an edge, then maybe the real problem isn’t that I don’t understand bash—it’s that you don’t seem to care about fairness in competitive play.
And our point is, no, those people aren't using macros because it is entirely possible (and easy) to bash on cooldown consistently, and you're just projecting your own belief based on seeing semi-skilled players perform a mechanic that only looks implausible from your point of view. And even if they are using macros, they're not really gaining any advantage over any other player, because it is impossible for any client to bypass the server-authoritative cooldown between bashes, and you can easily do the exact same thing without macros.
You’ve completely missed the real issue here. The point isn’t whether it’s possible to bash consistently without macros—it’s about how macros allow players to eliminate any human error, giving them perfect, frame-perfect execution over time, something that isn’t achievable manually. This gives them an unfair advantage, especially in competitive play.
You keep insisting that there’s no real benefit to using macros, but that’s a misunderstanding of the problem. It’s not about bypassing cooldowns—it’s about the precision and consistency macros provide. You’ve failed to grasp that, so I’m done debating this with someone who doesn’t see the bigger picture.it’s about how macros allow players to eliminate any human error, giving them perfect, frame-perfect execution over time, something that isn’t achievable manually.
We've been going in circles about this again and again and again and again and again.It’s not about bypassing cooldowns—it’s about the precision and consistency macros provide.
The action queuing system in ESO gives players enough room to easily manually pull off perfect, frame-perfect execution over time. It doesn't matter if it's bash weaving, or just doing a standard combat rotation; there's always a wide-enough window of time when queuing actions for a human to always easily pull off the perfect timings, each and every single time.
Perhaps you haven't seen actual decent players play, and automatically assume no one can play better than you. That's on you.
There is no unfair advantage. None. Nil. Zero. Null. 零.This gives them an unfair advantage, especially in competitive play.
Combat actions are all server authoritative, and have cooldowns, all of which are, again, large enough for perfect rotations and combos to be easily achievable by players.
Players also get the benefit of visual confirmation of inputs based on animations and sound effects, and can also see incoming debuffs to see what status effects their character has, survey the area for incoming threats, plan new movements, and change their actions and strategies based on their judgement accordingly.
Macros can not do that. If someone uses a macro to play for them in combat, they are actively gimping themselves.
You got outplayed by a bash build and started blaming macros. To quote my favourite companion in ESO, "Skill issue."You’ve failed to grasp that, so I’m done debating this with someone who doesn’t see the bigger picture.
The problem is you keep downplaying the issue without really understanding it. It’s not about whether macros perform “better” than human input—it’s about the consistency and precision they provide without any human error. Whether or not you want to acknowledge it, that’s still an advantage. At this point, it's clear you’re set on denying that automation can offer any edge, so I’m done explaining it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
They don't.People aren't macroing their bashes to beat you in PVP. If you think that they are, you probably just don't understand combat as well as you think that you do.
Macroing in eso PVP would be a pointless thing to do, for a plethora of reasons. First, the server performance is atrocious. When you attempt to do things quicker than the GCD allows (or even at the maximum the GCD should allow), you'll see hitching/queueing of actions/failures to fire. You're suggesting that people are macroing three bashes per second which is the theoretical limit - they aren't. Even if somebody did set a macro to do that, one key press to do three bashes .333 seconds apart, it would have no different result than simply spamming the key, which is no more difficult to do.
Second, ESO pvp is just not an environment where you'd benefit from macroing basic functions. Years ago with full animation cancelling there were some niche cases where people abused macros in PVP because back then high level APM was genuinely double the number of actions per minute as it is now. This hasn't been the case in years. The only scenario where somebody would genuinely benefit from macroing in PVP today is to set up a gank so that it fires flawlessly every single time - this just doesn't apply to normal combat.
Finally, who exactly do you think is abusing a macro to bash you to death? The guy with 40k hp using deadlands demolisher with bash glyphs who is spamming bash on you while pressing no other abilities? I'd love to see some video examples of players who you genuinely think are doing this.
Even with the server's hiccups, macros can help ensure perfect timing every single time, which can absolutely give an edge in competitive situations, especially in fast-paced combat where human error comes into play.
Humans can adapt to server latency and hiccups and pull off optimally-timed combos based on their visuals and sound effects.
The moment a macro misses one of those "perfectly timed" actions due to server issues, all of the rest of its actions become offset and the macro-abusing player would end up having to restart the macro.
There is zero chance of a mistimed bash. Case in point: hold right click, and spam left click.You’re also underestimating the benefits of eliminating any chance of mistimed bashes.
Due to server stability and the general sensitivity it has to packet losses, that consistency is never guaranteed. In order to actually pull off a consistent rotation or combo, you'd have to deliberately slow your macro down slightly to make up for any hiccups, since a macro can not detect those latency changes, resulting in a lower and inoptimal damage output. I would know, I've done it.No one’s arguing that it’s impossible to hit max GCD manually, but the whole point of using a macro is to guarantee that consistency over long periods of time without fatigue or error. And yes, while full animation canceling might not be what it used to, the advantage of a macro still exists in streamlining even the simplest of mechanics.
This is your only valid point. Good job!fatigue
(I did mention in an earlier post that the only upside a macro has in ESO's combat is for dealing with stuff like RSI.)
If you are experiencing fatigue when playing the game and feel the desire to have automation take over for you, consider instead taking a break instead, and perhaps acquiring some ergonomic peripherals.
The entire premise of your thread was about bash builds. Now, since you wish to address the "larger" "problem" of macro usage in general, I've already addressed them for you: they offer no combat advantage. Any macro user is gimping themselves.As for your comment about the 40k HP guy with bash glyphs—it’s not just about one specific build. This conversation goes beyond individual encounters and touches on the broader issue of fairness when automation is involved. So dismissing it by oversimplifying the scenario doesn’t really address the root of the problem.
If you believe that these "so-called" good players are "abusing macros", that is entirely up to you, but just note that it only speaks to your own inexperience and inability to learn, adapt, and get good. Unless, of course, you are physically unable to, in which case, I offer my condolences, and also recommend that you just lower your standards for doable content, go Oakensoul Sorcerer, and call it a day.
Edited by HatchetHaro on October 7, 2024 5:12PMBest Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
17 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 3x SBS, 1x Unchained1 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »
They don't.People aren't macroing their bashes to beat you in PVP. If you think that they are, you probably just don't understand combat as well as you think that you do.
Macroing in eso PVP would be a pointless thing to do, for a plethora of reasons. First, the server performance is atrocious. When you attempt to do things quicker than the GCD allows (or even at the maximum the GCD should allow), you'll see hitching/queueing of actions/failures to fire. You're suggesting that people are macroing three bashes per second which is the theoretical limit - they aren't. Even if somebody did set a macro to do that, one key press to do three bashes .333 seconds apart, it would have no different result than simply spamming the key, which is no more difficult to do.
Second, ESO pvp is just not an environment where you'd benefit from macroing basic functions. Years ago with full animation cancelling there were some niche cases where people abused macros in PVP because back then high level APM was genuinely double the number of actions per minute as it is now. This hasn't been the case in years. The only scenario where somebody would genuinely benefit from macroing in PVP today is to set up a gank so that it fires flawlessly every single time - this just doesn't apply to normal combat.
Finally, who exactly do you think is abusing a macro to bash you to death? The guy with 40k hp using deadlands demolisher with bash glyphs who is spamming bash on you while pressing no other abilities? I'd love to see some video examples of players who you genuinely think are doing this.
Even with the server's hiccups, macros can help ensure perfect timing every single time, which can absolutely give an edge in competitive situations, especially in fast-paced combat where human error comes into play.
Humans can adapt to server latency and hiccups and pull off optimally-timed combos based on their visuals and sound effects.
The moment a macro misses one of those "perfectly timed" actions due to server issues, all of the rest of its actions become offset and the macro-abusing player would end up having to restart the macro.
There is zero chance of a mistimed bash. Case in point: hold right click, and spam left click.You’re also underestimating the benefits of eliminating any chance of mistimed bashes.
Due to server stability and the general sensitivity it has to packet losses, that consistency is never guaranteed. In order to actually pull off a consistent rotation or combo, you'd have to deliberately slow your macro down slightly to make up for any hiccups, since a macro can not detect those latency changes, resulting in a lower and inoptimal damage output. I would know, I've done it.No one’s arguing that it’s impossible to hit max GCD manually, but the whole point of using a macro is to guarantee that consistency over long periods of time without fatigue or error. And yes, while full animation canceling might not be what it used to, the advantage of a macro still exists in streamlining even the simplest of mechanics.
This is your only valid point. Good job!fatigue
(I did mention in an earlier post that the only upside a macro has in ESO's combat is for dealing with stuff like RSI.)
If you are experiencing fatigue when playing the game and feel the desire to have automation take over for you, consider instead taking a break instead, and perhaps acquiring some ergonomic peripherals.
The entire premise of your thread was about bash builds. Now, since you wish to address the "larger" "problem" of macro usage in general, I've already addressed them for you: they offer no combat advantage. Any macro user is gimping themselves.As for your comment about the 40k HP guy with bash glyphs—it’s not just about one specific build. This conversation goes beyond individual encounters and touches on the broader issue of fairness when automation is involved. So dismissing it by oversimplifying the scenario doesn’t really address the root of the problem.
If you believe that these "so-called" good players are "abusing macros", that is entirely up to you, but just note that it only speaks to your own inexperience and inability to learn, adapt, and get good. Unless, of course, you are physically unable to, in which case, I offer my condolences, and also recommend that you just lower your standards for doable content, go Oakensoul Sorcerer, and call it a day.
My thread is specifically about the use of bash macros and how they can impact gameplay, not just bash builds. While it's true that some might argue macros don't provide a combat advantage, they can still influence how players engage with the game and their efficiency.
Let’s focus on constructive discussions about our approaches, rather than making assumptions about each other’s abilities.Edited by forum_gpt on October 7, 2024 5:34PMImmortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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My point is that there isn't any proper evidence you can have that someone would be using a bash macro, because it's very easy to achieve perfect bash timing by hand.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:24PM0 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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And yet even when asked to prove you could achieve perfect bash timing, no one has bothered to post screenshots. It should be super easy to logon, port to a house, and and provide a screenshot of a bash cmx.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:25PM1 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »[snip]
Just because you have accessibility issues doesn't allow you to break the terms of service and cheat. You still have to follow the same rules as everyone else. Seems really strange to agree to the terms of service when clearly you don't agree.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:11PM1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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My point is that there isn't any proper evidence you can have that someone would be using a bash macro, because it's very easy to achieve perfect bash timing by hand.
And yet even when asked to prove you could achieve perfect bash timing, no one has bothered to post screenshots. It should be super easy to logon, port to a house, and and provide a screenshot of a bash cmx.
What are you even talking about? There are multiple pictures in this very forum post showing a "perfect" bash timing, even describing how latency interacts with the bash timing to prevent anyone from reaching .333s (yes, even macros). There's also a bug post going over perfect bash timing in the bug section of the forum right now, again discussing how latency caps a perfect bash timing at about .38 seconds.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:26PM0 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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My point is that there isn't any proper evidence you can have that someone would be using a bash macro, because it's very easy to achieve perfect bash timing by hand.
And yet even when asked to prove you could achieve perfect bash timing, no one has bothered to post screenshots. It should be super easy to logon, port to a house, and and provide a screenshot of a bash cmx.
What are you even talking about? There are multiple pictures in this very forum post showing a "perfect" bash timing, even describing how latency interacts with the bash timing to prevent anyone from reaching .333s (yes, even macros). There's also a bug post going over perfect bash timing in the bug section of the forum right now, again discussing how latency caps a perfect bash timing at about .38 seconds.
You made claim that you could achieve perfect bash timing and your actual bash timings are 20% worse than what could be achieved by cheating. You made a claim and you were wrong. It isn't a bug because you're wrong. You just happen to be wrong, but you can't seem to concede the point.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:27PM0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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My point is that there isn't any proper evidence you can have that someone would be using a bash macro, because it's very easy to achieve perfect bash timing by hand.
And yet even when asked to prove you could achieve perfect bash timing, no one has bothered to post screenshots. It should be super easy to logon, port to a house, and and provide a screenshot of a bash cmx.
What are you even talking about? There are multiple pictures in this very forum post showing a "perfect" bash timing, even describing how latency interacts with the bash timing to prevent anyone from reaching .333s (yes, even macros). There's also a bug post going over perfect bash timing in the bug section of the forum right now, again discussing how latency caps a perfect bash timing at about .38 seconds.
You made claim that you could achieve perfect bash timing and your actual bash timings are 20% worse than what could be achieved by cheating. You made a claim and you were wrong. It isn't a bug because you're wrong.
No one is going to achieve .333s even with a macro because of how latency works. Anyone can achieve the cap without a macro. The cap is .333s if you didn't have any latency. With latency, the cap is about .38 seconds, even with a macro.
A macro isn't going to bypass the server latency, that's not how that works. It is very simple to achieve the bash rate cap without a macro. Nothing about what i stated was wrong.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:28PM2 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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My point is that there isn't any proper evidence you can have that someone would be using a bash macro, because it's very easy to achieve perfect bash timing by hand.
And yet even when asked to prove you could achieve perfect bash timing, no one has bothered to post screenshots. It should be super easy to logon, port to a house, and and provide a screenshot of a bash cmx.
What are you even talking about? There are multiple pictures in this very forum post showing a "perfect" bash timing, even describing how latency interacts with the bash timing to prevent anyone from reaching .333s (yes, even macros). There's also a bug post going over perfect bash timing in the bug section of the forum right now, again discussing how latency caps a perfect bash timing at about .38 seconds.
You made claim that you could achieve perfect bash timing and your actual bash timings are 20% worse than what could be achieved by cheating. You made a claim and you were wrong. It isn't a bug because you're wrong.
No one is going to achieve .333s even with a macro because of how latency works. Anyone can achieve the cap without a macro. The cap is .333s if you didn't have any latency. With latency, the cap is about .38 seconds, even with a macro.
A macro isn't going to bypass the server latency, that's not how that works. It is very simple to achieve the bash rate cap without a macro. Nothing about what i stated was wrong.
I've already proven you wrong with my Logitech g502 mouse. My bash timings were much lower than .38 seconds. Maybe you should be the one checking screenshots again. The only reason I can't reach .333 is because I'm sending too many key presses and some are ignored. A macro allows you to achieve a level of perfection that isn't reachable by human or fast spinny mouse.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:29PM1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »If you're dying to a bash build, it's just a skill issue. It's a very niche playstyle with predictable/telegraphed damage. I played bashcro for many months, and bound the bash key to my mouse wheel and also got accused of using "macros". @CameraBeardThePirate and @SkaraMinoc also have a ton of experience playing bash builds, so I'm sure they could share some insight if they haven't already.
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My point is that there isn't any proper evidence you can have that someone would be using a bash macro, because it's very easy to achieve perfect bash timing by hand.
And yet even when asked to prove you could achieve perfect bash timing, no one has bothered to post screenshots. It should be super easy to logon, port to a house, and and provide a screenshot of a bash cmx.
What are you even talking about? There are multiple pictures in this very forum post showing a "perfect" bash timing, even describing how latency interacts with the bash timing to prevent anyone from reaching .333s (yes, even macros). There's also a bug post going over perfect bash timing in the bug section of the forum right now, again discussing how latency caps a perfect bash timing at about .38 seconds.
You made claim that you could achieve perfect bash timing and your actual bash timings are 20% worse than what could be achieved by cheating. You made a claim and you were wrong. It isn't a bug because you're wrong.
No one is going to achieve .333s even with a macro because of how latency works. Anyone can achieve the cap without a macro. The cap is .333s if you didn't have any latency. With latency, the cap is about .38 seconds, even with a macro.
A macro isn't going to bypass the server latency, that's not how that works. It is very simple to achieve the bash rate cap without a macro. Nothing about what i stated was wrong.
I've already proven you wrong with my Logitech g502 mouse. My bash timings were much lower than .38 seconds. Maybe you should be the one checking screenshots again. The only reason I can't reach .333 is because I'm sending too many key presses and some are ignored. A macro allows you to achieve a level of perfection that isn't reachable by human or fast spinny mouse.
What's your Latency? With 100ms, .38 is the limit. 200ms it goes up to about .433. In your screenshot, you were between these two numbers (.388, not "much lower" than .38). That goes in line with everything I've said. If you're sending too many key presses, you're spinning your wheel too fast. Again, there's a bug post discussing why you're not going to be able to reach .333 with or without a macro:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666974/bash-attack-not-using-ability-queue-cooldown-333ms-network-latency#latest
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 7, 2024 6:29PM1
This discussion has been closed.