Has anyone tried playing with a heavy seducer set on a mag build?

mdb800

My current setup of the magsorc is spinners on one bar and lich on the back bar with sithis gaze I am looking at buffer of the swift, 4-5 heavy seducers.

How much armor should a mag sorc have?

MincMincMinc

mdb800 wrote: »

My current setup of the magsorc is spinners on one bar and lich on the back bar with sithis gaze I am looking at buffer of the swift, 4-5 heavy seducers.

How much armor should a mag sorc have?

What content is this for? How confident are you in weapon swap weaving?

mdb800

MincMincMinc wrote: »

mdb800 wrote: »

My current setup of the magsorc is spinners on one bar and lich on the back bar with sithis gaze I am looking at buffer of the swift, 4-5 heavy seducers.

How much armor should a mag sorc have?

What content is this for? How confident are you in weapon swap weaving?

Pvp: I feel semi confident in swap weaving, sometimes I miss the second explosion of haunting curse while on lich bar

Aces-High-82

For Cyro CP?
Aim for 42k max mag and 26 max HP at least - both values before DDF proc.
DDF is basically bis If you want stack mag.
Note If stacking less than 45k mag Ward won't be very effective at which point you can stack simply HP and weapon/spell damage.
There are many possible setups that are viable but Wretched Vitality as your backbar set is bis imo.
Incooperate 1p Trainee.
Monster Sets: Roksa, Chudan or Engine Guardian
Frontbar Sets: RC, SF, Spinners, Alfiq - really depends how good your are in using Ward proactively and if fighting often outnumbered. The more you are confident the more offensive setup will work.

Zodiarkslayer

I had this discussion with a friend a little while back. And he pointed out some considerations with MagSorc, that you have to do, before deciding your set choices.
First: Where do you put Hardened Ward? Backbar or Frontbar? And how do you use it?
Second: What are your other skills? MagSorc is very tight on barspace
Third: Chudan, Death Dealers Fete and Gallant Chain or a backbar set?

His conclusion is that MagSorc is better off with Mighty Chudan, Gallant Chain, Death Dealers Fete, Crafty Alfiq's and Ancient Grace on the frontbar and backbar. And I trust him, because he is a very experienced MagSorc player.

He argues there is no reason to have Hardened Ward on the back bar, if you loose 10k MaxMagicka when you switch to the backbar.
He also says, that he is on the backbar most of the time and only switches to the frontbar for his burst.
Also, having penetration bonuses while you are on the backbar is a net loss. That's why he chooses Alfiq's over Spinner's. The damage is the same, but the MaxMag is better for Ward and Heal scaling.

Aces-High-82

If you choose Wield Soul as your spamable with the breach script you free a barslot so you can drop Chudan for a better set. Ofc that barslot is then for Hurricane;D

mdb800

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

For Cyro CP?
Aim for 42k max mag and 26 max HP at least - both values before DDF proc.
DDF is basically bis If you want stack mag.
Note If stacking less than 45k mag Ward won't be very effective at which point you can stack simply HP and weapon/spell damage.
There are many possible setups that are viable but Wretched Vitality as your backbar set is bis imo.
Incooperate 1p Trainee.
Monster Sets: Roksa, Chudan or Engine Guardian
Frontbar Sets: RC, SF, Spinners, Alfiq - really depends how good your are in using Ward proactively and if fighting often outnumbered. The more you are confident the more offensive setup will work.

Cyro cp what's rc, sf?

Also, how much armor/ damage reduction should a magsorc have?

mdb800

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I had this discussion with a friend a little while back. And he pointed out some considerations with MagSorc, that you have to do, before deciding your set choices.
First: Where do you put Hardened Ward? Backbar or Frontbar? And how do you use it?
Second: What are your other skills? MagSorc is very tight on barspace
Third: Chudan, Death Dealers Fete and Gallant Chain or a backbar set?

His conclusion is that MagSorc is better off with Mighty Chudan, Gallant Chain, Death Dealers Fete, Crafty Alfiq's and Ancient Grace on the frontbar and backbar. And I trust him, because he is a very experienced MagSorc player.

He argues there is no reason to have Hardened Ward on the back bar, if you loose 10k MaxMagicka when you switch to the backbar.
He also says, that he is on the backbar most of the time and only switches to the frontbar for his burst.
Also, having penetration bonuses while you are on the backbar is a net loss. That's why he chooses Alfiq's over Spinner's. The damage is the same, but the MaxMag is better for Ward and Heal scaling.

I put hardened ward on front with frags since it is it is my most common skill

Zodiarkslayer

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

If you choose Wield Soul as your spamable with the breach script you free a barslot so you can drop Chudan for a better set. Ofc that barslot is then for Hurricane;D

And that's the problem! If your experience is that Hurrican doesn't do that much damage, then this is a wasted bar slot. Most MagSorcs tell me they will avoid melee range and do not slot Hurrican for just the largest extension of the circle, which still is only 9m. As a MagSorc you'll typically stay above 15m.
Mighty Chudan seems to be made for MagSorcs.

Those are the kind of considerations you'll have to make about abilities before deciding on sets.
Another perfect example is Crit Surge. If you run it, you'll have to attack constantly and have a high chance at that. With 20% to 30% there aren't many healing procs. And if you lean into crit chance, you'll be behind the curve for MaxMag and that might mean you'll have to abandon Magicka stacking altogether.

Aces-High-82

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

If you choose Wield Soul as your spamable with the breach script you free a barslot so you can drop Chudan for a better set. Ofc that barslot is then for Hurricane;D

And that's the problem! If your experience is that Hurrican doesn't do that much damage, then this is a wasted bar slot. Most MagSorcs tell me they will avoid melee range and do not slot Hurrican for just the largest extension of the circle, which still is only 9m. As a MagSorc you'll typically stay above 15m.
Mighty Chudan seems to be made for MagSorcs.

Those are the kind of considerations you'll have to make about abilities before deciding on sets.
Another perfect example is Crit Surge. If you run it, you'll have to attack constantly and have a high chance at that. With 20% to 30% there aren't many healing procs. And if you lean into crit chance, you'll be behind the curve for MaxMag and that might mean you'll have to abandon Magicka stacking altogether.

No one will slot Hurricane for the damage but for resolve and the increased mobility. The nice side effect from the AOE is to pull NBs out of stealht occasionaly.
Slotting Surge is pretty mandatory If you choose to run Rallying Cry for its uptime, otherwise pots or any ability/script that grants you Major Sorcery will do the Job here.
Chudan aint bad per se but why to waste 2 Gear slots If there are better picks?

Aces-High-82

mdb800 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

For Cyro CP?
Aim for 42k max mag and 26 max HP at least - both values before DDF proc.
DDF is basically bis If you want stack mag.
Note If stacking less than 45k mag Ward won't be very effective at which point you can stack simply HP and weapon/spell damage.
There are many possible setups that are viable but Wretched Vitality as your backbar set is bis imo.
Incooperate 1p Trainee.
Monster Sets: Roksa, Chudan or Engine Guardian
Frontbar Sets: RC, SF, Spinners, Alfiq - really depends how good your are in using Ward proactively and if fighting often outnumbered. The more you are confident the more offensive setup will work.

Cyro cp what's rc, sf?

Also, how much armor/ damage reduction should a magsorc have?

SF Shattered Fate
RC Rallying Cry
~22k resistances with resolve should be the lowest value to aim for.

mdb800

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

mdb800 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

For Cyro CP?
Aim for 42k max mag and 26 max HP at least - both values before DDF proc.
DDF is basically bis If you want stack mag.
Note If stacking less than 45k mag Ward won't be very effective at which point you can stack simply HP and weapon/spell damage.
There are many possible setups that are viable but Wretched Vitality as your backbar set is bis imo.
Incooperate 1p Trainee.
Monster Sets: Roksa, Chudan or Engine Guardian
Frontbar Sets: RC, SF, Spinners, Alfiq - really depends how good your are in using Ward proactively and if fighting often outnumbered. The more you are confident the more offensive setup will work.

Cyro cp what's rc, sf?

Also, how much armor/ damage reduction should a magsorc have?

SF Shattered Fate
RC Rallying Cry
~22k resistances with resolve should be the lowest value to aim for.

And that is 22k without taking into consideration the damage reduction from bonuses like minor protection or the 3% damage reduction from potentates?

Aces-High-82

Other reductions are applied separately.

Pelanora

Well, I played with Darien on my sorc as much as I could, but, the game took him away from me.

FriedEggSandwich

There are lots of viable ways to play magsorc in pvp. I run with 5x heavy, because I can still push 20k pen (if you include breach), and I don't use crit. I also use spinners like you.

I used seducer for years, it's a good set, but my issue with it now is you need it active on both bars. Someone else mentioned wretched vitality, which is what I use now in place of seducer, because you can back bar it, and then fit a mythic, 1 piece monster and 1 piece trainee on your build. So my issue with seducer is it takes up too much space.

If you're pushing 30k resistances (with resolve), are comfortable swapping bars in a pinch, and instictively know what bar you're on, you can get away with putting ward on your back bar. Lag is your only real enemy there. I aim to have front bar purely offensive, and back bar purely defensive & buff, and wretched vitality works well with this.

Slightly off topic, but dark conversion is the only skill that can mess with my bar swap. But one thing I've found is that if you make dark conversion the first buff skill you hit on your back bar, and then follow it up immediately with an instant cast buff skill, like boundless storm, it avoids the awkwardness when trying to bar swap after dark conversion. It doesn't exactly animation cancel it, but it makes it feel a lot more smooth, and you can then queue up a bar swap when you want to, and you don't have to memorise the cast time of dark conversion.

FriedEggSandwich

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Also, having penetration bonuses while you are on the backbar is a net loss. That's why he chooses Alfiq's over Spinner's. The damage is the same, but the MaxMag is better for Ward and Heal scaling.

If you use spinners jewels and weapon, which you would if you were using 5x heavy, then you don't have the pen on your back bar.

Zodiarkslayer

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

If you use spinners jewels and weapon, which you would if you were using 5x heavy, then you don't have the pen on your back bar.

Quite right. But, if Spinners takes the jewels plus weapon, then you'll not be able to use Ancient Grace, Death Dealers Fete or any other Jewelry Mythic.
I am not saying it isn't possible. I am saying this way stacking MaxMagicka becomes so inefficient, that using Hardened Ward is not an advantage anymore. If you go down this road, Great! But, you will have to build conventionally, like everybody else.

FriedEggSandwich

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

If you use spinners jewels and weapon, which you would if you were using 5x heavy, then you don't have the pen on your back bar.

Quite right. But, if Spinners takes the jewels plus weapon, then you'll not be able to use Ancient Grace, Death Dealers Fete or any other Jewelry Mythic.
I am not saying it isn't possible. I am saying this way stacking MaxMagicka becomes so inefficient, that using Hardened Ward is not an advantage anymore. If you go down this road, Great! But, you will have to build conventionally, like everybody else.

You can though. I run 5x spinners, 5x wretched vitality, 2x monster set, 1x mythic and 1x trainee. Hardened ward takes your resistances, so running 5x heavy makes it stronger, while also meaning you don't have to panic as much when you need it.

Edit: I should clarify; spinners staff, plus 2x jewels, plus 1 armour piece. This leaves a jewel slot for a mythic, and you're still only front barring spinners. I have 40k mag, minimum of 5.5k spell damage buffed, 29k resistances (with resolve), and 20k spell pen (with breach, which I have access to). I could switch out the lover for the mage for less pen and more magicka, if I chose to. It might not be meta, but it's not sacrificing anything except ward size, which is mitigated by the resistances.

Aces-High-82

I assume you opted for balorgh and thrassian then?