Nerf Max Mag sets, not Sorc Shields.

Duke_Falcon

Sorc has literally gotten to a place of build diversity and now your going to pigeon hole Sorcs into useing nothing but Max Mag Sets because the Damage Shields are too Strong. Please, please rethink this.

CameraBeardThePirate

Mag sets are not the problem if they are basically only good on sorc. Sorc's free +18% max mag is the problem.

ForumSavant

Max stat resource sets are not good. Building max mag/stam vs spell or weapon damage is usually a huge loss to a build.

SkaraMinoc

The nerf to Hardened Ward won't change anything in PvP for Mag Sorcs. All it does is hurt Stam Sorcs that rely on the weak heal. Mag Sorc builds will be the same in U44 as U43. The damage from +18% max mag is still off the charts. Hardest hitting build and best survivability in the game.

Iriidius

Mag sets like alfiq are absolut trash sets and worn by nobody not using shields and even many shield magsorcs do rather than mag sets(like alfiq+btb in 2019) use wretchet+rallyngcry+ddf+chudan.

Most players would trade maximum magicka for almost everything using 64 hp attributepoints and prismatic armor glyphs, orzagas smoked bear haunch, infused juwelry insteat of 64 mag attribute, magglyphs and betwitchet sugar skulls like in 2018.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Mag sets are not the problem if they are basically only good on sorc. Sorc's free +18% max mag is the problem.

18% max mag is still less than 20% max ressfrom old cp system every cp player had (that were removed and replaced with flat stats that not only not compensated stacking but also made it unnecessary as you can get decent pools without any investment now) and they are are not for free because you have to slot bound aegis on limited barspace insteat of for example vigor and loose 10% hp from sorc passive by not using pets.
Nerfing mag stacking rather than hardened ward will make sorcs stack hp like warden and arcanists.
(mag stacking is already underperforming on everything except magsorc)

Bashev

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

Sorc has literally gotten to a place of build diversity and now your going to pigeon hole Sorcs into useing nothing but Max Mag Sets because the Damage Shields are too Strong. Please, please rethink this.

But sorcs shields are not nerfed. The arcanist one is nerfed.

Zodiarkslayer

How about we ignore balance requests for PvP reasons?
They have damaged the game enough at this point. The Arctic Blast Madness is just the recent example in a very long series of PvP changes, that directly harm the gameplay in PvE. And next patch we'll continue with nightblade cloak changes!

PvP players will always find new exploits to get another advantage over the others. It is the nature of PvP. It will never change. So why? Why should everyone else suffer the same consequences?

Bashev

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

How about we ignore balance requests for PvP reasons?
They have damaged the game enough at this point. The Arctic Blast Madness is just the recent example in a very long series of PvP changes, that directly harm the gameplay in PvE. And next patch we'll continue with nightblade cloak changes!

PvP players will always find new exploits to get another advantage over the others. It is the nature of PvP. It will never change. So why? Why should everyone else suffer the same consequences?

But can you imagine if the mobs can complain?

fred4

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

The damage from +18% max mag is still off the charts. Hardest hitting build and best survivability in the game.

I don't think the damage is that high per se, unless we're talking about an Imperial Physique sorc bearing down on you. I think the combination of their shield and Streak allows magsorc to relentlessly attack for longer than most other builds with the same damage. They don't have to as vigilent about watching their health bar and they have an unmatched get-out-of-jail-free card in Streak. It's the one-two punch of the shield followed by Streak, should you misjudge your health. The experienced player will plan for it, but it's so playable regardless of experience.

The problem they've had before the latest patches was difficulty healing. A Streak gives you about one second breathing room, which they can nowadays use to shield and heal. In other words I agree it was the heal on Hardened Ward - the saving of bar space and sheer playability of that - which pushed magsorc to S-tier again. I think ZOS' U44 nerf is the right thing to try.

CameraBeardThePirate

Iriidius wrote: »

Mag sets like alfiq are absolut trash sets and worn by nobody not using shields and even many shield magsorcs do rather than mag sets(like alfiq+btb in 2019) use wretchet+rallyngcry+ddf+chudan.

Most players would trade maximum magicka for almost everything using 64 hp attributepoints and prismatic armor glyphs, orzagas smoked bear haunch, infused juwelry insteat of 64 mag attribute, magglyphs and betwitchet sugar skulls like in 2018.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Mag sets are not the problem if they are basically only good on sorc. Sorc's free +18% max mag is the problem.

18% max mag is still less than 20% max ressfrom old cp system every cp player had (that were removed and replaced with flat stats that not only not compensated stacking but also made it unnecessary as you can get decent pools without any investment now) and they are are not for free because you have to slot bound aegis on limited barspace insteat of for example vigor and loose 10% hp from sorc passive by not using pets.
Nerfing mag stacking rather than hardened ward will make sorcs stack hp like warden and arcanists.
(mag stacking is already underperforming on everything except magsorc)

Yes, you have to slot Bound Aegis, but it's basically a must slot.

Bound Aegis gives Minor Resolve, Minor Protection, and 8% max mag, which will usually equate to anywhere from 2700 to 3200 mag on a max mag build. That's almost 10% mitigation, and the equivalent of about 300 weapon and spell damage, just for having the ability slotted on either bar. You don't even need Vigor on a sorc because shield + dark exchange is plenty healing.

Nerf the ability of sorcs to stack max mag. Yes, sorcs will still be able to slot max health to stack Ward, but then they wouldn't be double dipping in both survivability and damage with 1 stat.

No, most sorcs are not already stacking Max HP, because max mag sorcs are S+++ tier right now.

Aggrovious

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

Sorc has literally gotten to a place of build diversity and now your going to pigeon hole Sorcs into useing nothing but Max Mag Sets because the Damage Shields are too Strong. Please, please rethink this.

[snip] Stop asking for nerfs, hardened wards healing is why its op LOL

[edited for trolling]

Stafford197

These shields are a perfect example of what happens when the Combat Team changes things around too much. Sorc was originally developed to rely primarily on movement and shield stacking to survive. Shields did not have resistances and could not be critically struck, so the class would neglect resistances in favor of building toward Max Magicka for more powerful shields.

The moment these large shields were cut down, a Sorc would take massive damage to their already low Health pool due to having neglected all actual defensive stats. NBs could cut them down especially quick. It’s a unique sort of balance that was fun to play with.

So now we fast forward to modern day where shields essentially behave like additional Health while everyone stacks 30-40K Health. What can even be done here? IMO total Health in Cyro needs to be brought down before we nerf individual abilities which are scaling from it.

Duke_Falcon

Nerfing Hardened Ward will force Sorcs to run more Max Magic in their builds, limiting an already limited build diversity for the class.

YandereGirlfriend

No, the problem is Ward.

Max stats are weak as an itemization category and should probably be buffed, IMHO.

Iriidius

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Mag sets like alfiq are absolut trash sets and worn by nobody not using shields and even many shield magsorcs do rather than mag sets(like alfiq+btb in 2019) use wretchet+rallyngcry+ddf+chudan.

Most players would trade maximum magicka for almost everything using 64 hp attributepoints and prismatic armor glyphs, orzagas smoked bear haunch, infused juwelry insteat of 64 mag attribute, magglyphs and betwitchet sugar skulls like in 2018.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Mag sets are not the problem if they are basically only good on sorc. Sorc's free +18% max mag is the problem.

18% max mag is still less than 20% max ressfrom old cp system every cp player had (that were removed and replaced with flat stats that not only not compensated stacking but also made it unnecessary as you can get decent pools without any investment now) and they are are not for free because you have to slot bound aegis on limited barspace insteat of for example vigor and loose 10% hp from sorc passive by not using pets.
Nerfing mag stacking rather than hardened ward will make sorcs stack hp like warden and arcanists.
(mag stacking is already underperforming on everything except magsorc)

Yes, you have to slot Bound Aegis, but it's basically a must slot.

Bound Aegis gives Minor Resolve, Minor Protection, and 8% max mag, which will usually equate to anywhere from 2700 to 3200 mag on a max mag build. That's almost 10% mitigation, and the equivalent of about 300 weapon and spell damage, just for having the ability slotted on either bar. You don't even need Vigor on a sorc because shield + dark exchange is plenty healing.

Nerf the ability of sorcs to stack max mag. Yes, sorcs will still be able to slot max health to stack Ward, but then they wouldn't be double dipping in both survivability and damage with 1 stat.

No, most sorcs are not already stacking Max HP, because max mag sorcs are S+++ tier right now.

I would get Minor resolve from resolving vigor together with a HoT that is must have on almost every other build and minor protection from undo ultimate if I dont need other second ultimate, otherwise minor protection is not enaugh to slot a skill for it and much worse than resolving vigor HoT so hardened ward is definitely slottet for the 8% max magicka for stacked and not slottet otherwise because 8% mag when not stacking and minor protection together are worse than vigor hot then.

The dmg max magicka gives is not enaugh for any class except magsorc to stack more than 24k magicka and not even mentioned when people boast with their dmg stats.
Stacking max HP gives you more HP and requires less investment than max magicka and allows you to compensate magicka dmg loss by stacking much more effektive wpn dmg and 2 more skills.
Can get 26% hp modifier with 6% undaunted, 10% heavy armor and 10% expert summoner and when you have a warden another 10% extra in addition to hp sources already giving 10% more than magicka sources and getting from 35 to 50k hp less investment than getting from 20 to 50k mag.

Dark exchange is interruptible and therefore not useable if any enemy can bash you and as a burst heal has much less tooltip than Vigor as a HoT.

IncultaWolf

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

How about we ignore balance requests for PvP reasons?
They have damaged the game enough at this point. The Arctic Blast Madness is just the recent example in a very long series of PvP changes, that directly harm the gameplay in PvE. And next patch we'll continue with nightblade cloak changes!

PvP players will always find new exploits to get another advantage over the others. It is the nature of PvP. It will never change. So why? Why should everyone else suffer the same consequences?

I actually never saw a single person complaining about arctic blast or asking for nerfs. People had issues with the other morph, polar wind.