[PVP] Class Balance

Bashev

Every class can be built tanky with nice self healing but to be a good class you need also a way to reset fight, sustain and burst damage.

Most of the classes miss the tool to reset a fight and they are coming behind the rest.

Tier List

• S
  Sorcerer and Nightblade - both classes are the meta right now. Both classes are top in Solo, Small Scale and Large Scale. Both classes can counter each other very well (I bet people will start argue which one of both is more OP and will point each other some skills). If you want to counter Sorcerer, that could be done best by Nightblade, it is the same for Nightblade, the best counter is Sorcerer.
  • Mobility
  • Escape
  • Burst
  • Heals
  • Sustain
  • Shields (Sorcs)
  • Invisibility (NBs)
• A+
  Dragonknight - good class but not OP
  • Sustain damage
  • Self heals
  • Good sustain if the player has good resource management
• A
  Warden - good class but not OP and just a little under DK
  • Delayed burst
  • Self heals
  • Good sustain
• B
  Templar and Arcanist - OK classes but they miss damage and mobility. That is why most of the time you will see them very tanky (what else can you do) and Templars trying some combo and finish with Radiant Destruction while Arcanists will try with procs.
  • Self heals - Templar
  • Execute - Templar
  • Good sustain - Arcanist
  • Shields, Extra Armor - Arcanist
• C
  Necromancer - bad class, clunky skills
  • AoE delayed burst with defile - but it is clunky

1. Arcanist
   Pros
   • Very tanky and tough to bring it down. They have extra armor. Really good HP shield. Because of that you will rarely see an Arcanist under 35k HP. This adds another layer to the tackiness.
   • Best pure recovery sustain stats wise when the tanking skills are used. This again explains why most of the Arcs are so tanky.
   Cons
   • No delayed burse damage
   • No good class damage skill at all. You will rarely see in your death recap an Arcanist damage class skill
   • Because of lacking damage the class should use procs or bash. And it should use weapon skill for damage
   • Not bad CC but it is blockable. If you exclude that sometimes is buggy and cannot be break free it is just an ok skill.
   • Bad mobility, the gate is useless in PvP. First there is a CD and second it is ground target and this make the skill super super clunky and not functional if the terrain is not even.
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Impervious Runeward - if you have 35k+ HP
   • Runic Defense morphs - if you have 35k+ HP
   
   Class defining skills
   • Crux mechanic, bad in PvP
   • Maybe the beam, bad in PvP
   • Shields
   
   
   
2. Dragonknight
   Pros
   • One of the best and most efficient spamables
   • Instant cast burst ultimate
   • Unique sustain in form of resource return on ulti and when a status effect is procced
   • Best CC, unblockable and undogable with a root attached.
   Cons
   • Bad mobility
   • You have to build for defense as the class mele oriented
   • There is a delayed burst skill but it is not as powerful as the others
   • Not bad CC but it is blockable. If you exclude that sometimes is buggy and cannot be break free it is just an ok skill.
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Molten Whip
   • Dragon Leap morphs
   • Fossilize
   
   Class defining skills
   • Reflective scales - gone
   • The only self healing skill - not anymore
   • Blind - gone
3. Necromancer
   Pros
   • Tanky
   • Best delayed burst with defile attached in Blighted Blastbones
   • Nice hot with unique damage reduction - Spirit Guardian
   Cons
   • No mobility
   • No CC
   • No shields
   • Bad class damage spamable
   • Bad mechanic with corpses
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Blighted Blastbones
   • Spirit Guardian - maybe
   Class defining skills
   • Corpse mechanic, bad in PvP
   • Summons bad in PvP
   
   
4. NIGHTBLADE
   Pros
   • Best burst damage, cheap and easy to use, - Grim Focus
   • Best sustain damage - Concealed Weapon with unique damage buff
   • Best mobility with very easy minor and major expedition
   • Every skill buff works on both bars, and these skills are many
   • The best combat reset with cloack and shades
   • Unblockable and undogable CC
   • Cheap burst ultimate with unique damage buff
   • One of the best sustain skills with Siphoning Strikes
   • Cheapest single target heal (from the better ones)
   Cons
   • No shield - but with all the other tools that you have, you do not need it.
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Death Stroke morphs
   • Grim Focus morphs
   • Shadowy Disguise
   • Siphoning Strikes
   Class defining skills
   • Invisibility
   • Damage burst
   
   
5. Sorcerer
   Pros
   • Great mobility with expeditions and streak
   • Great defense with hardened ward
   • Great sustain with Dark Exchange
   • Best delayed skill in curse
   • Good burst with proced frags
   • One of the best CC with streak, AoE undogable and unblockable stun
   • Good sustain pressure damage with overload
   Cons
   • I cannot find a cons.
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Haunting Curse
   • Hardened Ward
   • Streak
   Class defining skills
   • Pets, bad in PvP
   • Streak
   • Shields
   • Delayed burst
6. Templar
   Pros
   • Best execute
   • Nice heal on direct damage with living dark
   • Purge
   Cons
   • No delayed burse damage
   • Not a bad CCs, but one can be dodged the other can be blocked
   • Bad spamables
   • Bad sustain
   • No mobility and on top of that the class should stay in their house which now is smaller than ever
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Radiant Destruction - very annoying zerg surfing skill, which kind of hold the class just over the Necros
   • Living Dark - maybe
   • Extended Ritual - again maybe as 5 effects is not enough, as we have so many statuses now and almost every skill has a debuff attach to it or even 2
   Class defining skills
   • Purge, outdated in PvP. 5 effects is not enough with so many debuffs and statuses
   • Blind, gone
   • Shield retaliation - gone
   • Execute
7. Warden
   Pros
   • Best HP heal that heal an ally too.
   • Good AoE burst skill with Scorch and Northern Storm
   Cons
   • No reliable CC
   • Not great mobility.
   • Bad spamable
   Skills that every class will want to use
   • Scorch
   • Polar Wind - if you have 35k+ HP
   Class defining skills
   • I really struggle to see something with wardens, maybe the only HP heal that heals ally. They are kind of frost and animals but the skills are just a little bit of reskin. Maybe Scorch with AoE delayed burst.

CameraBeardThePirate

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

divnyi

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

I prefer Necrotic Potency for huge boost in ult gain, especially if you build your necro as ult dumper.

CameraBeardThePirate

divnyi wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

I prefer Necrotic Potency for huge boost in ult gain, especially if you build your necro as ult dumper.

Either way, Intensive gives you more corpses for it.

Bashev

It looks like I will have to test the new changes.

But I think on the first look Arcanist took the short straw. They were tanky and now they will not be anymore and their mobility and damage is not existent. I think this class will be dead as Necro next patch.

NBs cloak nerf is nothing if the toggle work properly and is responsive. At least for the good NBs who does not perma cloak and panic.

Sorcs nerf should be tested too but I still think that it will be a top skill.

I am really surprised how Warden heal survived?

TechMaybeHic

Bashev wrote: »

It looks like I will have to test the new changes.

But I think on the first look Arcanist took the short straw. They were tanky and now they will not be anymore and their mobility and damage is not existent. I think this class will be dead as Necro next patch.

NBs cloak nerf is nothing if the toggle work properly and is responsive. At least for the good NBs who does not perma cloak and panic.

Sorcs nerf should be tested too but I still think that it will be a top skill.

I am really surprised how Warden heal survived?

I am surprised Warden class scribble survived

CameraBeardThePirate

Bashev wrote: »

It looks like I will have to test the new changes.

But I think on the first look Arcanist took the short straw. They were tanky and now they will not be anymore and their mobility and damage is not existent. I think this class will be dead as Necro next patch.

NBs cloak nerf is nothing if the toggle work properly and is responsive. At least for the good NBs who does not perma cloak and panic.

Sorcs nerf should be tested too but I still think that it will be a top skill.

I am really surprised how Warden heal survived?

Uhhh Arcanists didn't really lose much tankiness at all - you might be misunderstanding the Impervious nerf.

They're nerfing the secondary shield (i.e., the smaller shield). Spamming Impervious Runeward will still be just as powerful as it was, because the 20k tooltip shield hasn't been touched.

LittlePinkDot

Bashev wrote: »

It looks like I will have to test the new changes.

But I think on the first look Arcanist took the short straw. They were tanky and now they will not be anymore and their mobility and damage is not existent. I think this class will be dead as Necro next patch.

NBs cloak nerf is nothing if the toggle work properly and is responsive. At least for the good NBs who does not perma cloak and panic.

Sorcs nerf should be tested too but I still think that it will be a top skill.

I am really surprised how Warden heal survived?

What was the point of nerfing my Arcanist but leaving sorc practically untouched? I don't think that measly 5% healing reduction is going to affect sorc that much.

Im going to try the other morph of Runeward.

Aces-High-82

Its a 33% healing nerf on hardened ward...wouldn't call that measly

Major_Mangle

All classes except sorc has about the same mobility since race against time exists. You could make a small case for shade but we all know most people don´t or can´t find bar space for it. Heck, you could even make a small case for arc portal on some builds but it´s too niche to be universally used.

You don´t compare classes purely from their class toolkit alone, that´s not how the game works and never has. Stamsorc is the peak example of this. Ever since stamsorc became a thing it´s never been in a bad spot. Yes proc sets dictated if the class was S-tier or A tier but ESO is a game where sets and non-class skills is as much part of "class identity" as the toolkit the class has itself, simply because certain skills and sets synergies better with certain classes (warden and blood for blood is another great example of this).

Regarding your list:
I´d personally but sorc and warden as the only S tier classes at the moment (controversial to not put NB on the pedestal I know). But as with everything, context is key and I´d say class balance can differ depending on whether you do battlegrounds or open world cyrodiil

Navaac223

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

For group play, yes, this is a huge buff and spirit mender is better but for solo? You can't recast a skill once every 8 sec in a 1vX, especially when the other morph gives you 10% dmg reduction. Also, deaden pain takes 1 bar space. Most solo necros are forced to take off major brutality sources to slot mobility tools. This is to say that no solo necro can afford using it

taugrim

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

From a throughput perspective, Intensive Mender is much better.

With that said, when I don't use Spirit Guardian, even in a 29k armor frontbar build, I feel noticeably squishier. A unique 10% source of mitigation is huge.

You might say "use Deaden Pain" but then that's 2 slots on the bars and Necro struggles with bar compression.

The other thing is that I've found that longer-running HoTs - even if the ticks are not huge - are great to pop pre-combat and they take the edge off damage and allow you to fight longer before having to burn cooldowns to heal. This is the case for me with Spirit Guardian, Templar's Rune Focus, Warden's Leeching Vines, etc.

Syiccal

Navaac223 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

For group play, yes, this is a huge buff and spirit mender is better but for solo? You can't recast a skill once every 8 sec in a 1vX, especially when the other morph gives you 10% dmg reduction. Also, deaden pain takes 1 bar space. Most solo necros are forced to take off major brutality sources to slot mobility tools. This is to say that no solo necro can afford using it

And yet major brutality is expected to be cast every 10 seconds on plars, which means whilst on the defensive etc we lose out on 20% increase of spell DMG effecting heals also.
I will maintain the opinion that brutality and sorcery should not be tied to offensive abilities especially one that means that stamplars have to stop execute to include a jab potentially

taugrim

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It looks like I will have to test the new changes.

But I think on the first look Arcanist took the short straw. They were tanky and now they will not be anymore and their mobility and damage is not existent. I think this class will be dead as Necro next patch.

NBs cloak nerf is nothing if the toggle work properly and is responsive. At least for the good NBs who does not perma cloak and panic.

Sorcs nerf should be tested too but I still think that it will be a top skill.

I am really surprised how Warden heal survived?

Uhhh Arcanists didn't really lose much tankiness at all - you might be misunderstanding the Impervious nerf.

They're nerfing the secondary shield (i.e., the smaller shield). Spamming Impervious Runeward will still be just as powerful as it was, because the 20k tooltip shield hasn't been touched.

It's a significant nerf.

Today, you can cast Impervious Ward (1 sec global cooldown), then the next global cooldown follow with Runemeld to recover HP. With the nerf to the 2nd damage shield, your 2nd shield will likely break (it will be only ~2.5k shield with 35k HP and Battle Spirit) and you'll take damage at a time you are trying to recover HP.

The issue with spamming IW is that you typically get the heal on the 1st cast (assuming you had 1+ crux), but after that, if you're on the defensive, you're relying on Cruxweave Armor (5s cooldown) and Tome-Bearer's Inspiration for intermittent crux generation. So you get an initial heal on the 1st IW cast and then you're treading water HP-wise.

I do agree that Impervious Runeward is a balance issue today (like Hardened Ward), but a 56% nerf to the 2nd shield is too big an adjustment. But Arcanist in general is not OP in PVP (PVE is a different story) and I think nerfing 2 survivability skills by 50+% with respect to shielding or damage is excessive.

Meanwhile Hardened Ward is only losing 33% of its healing, and the healing was unneeded in the 1st place since that shield already has the best scaling in the game. A lot of people have made the reasonable suggestion to change HW's heal to a HoT - in that case it will like the Signature Affix script Sage's Remedy that people put on scribing shield abilities.

taugrim

Syiccal wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

For group play, yes, this is a huge buff and spirit mender is better but for solo? You can't recast a skill once every 8 sec in a 1vX, especially when the other morph gives you 10% dmg reduction. Also, deaden pain takes 1 bar space. Most solo necros are forced to take off major brutality sources to slot mobility tools. This is to say that no solo necro can afford using it

And yet major brutality is expected to be cast every 10 seconds on plars, which means whilst on the defensive etc we lose out on 20% increase of spell DMG effecting heals also.
I will maintain the opinion that brutality and sorcery should not be tied to offensive abilities especially one that means that stamplars have to stop execute to include a jab potentially

Major Brutality on a spammable IMO is fine. It's bar compression.

If all you're doing is spamming Radiant, honestly just unslot the spammable and use another ability that provides Major Brutality / Major Sorcery.

Navaac223

Syiccal wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

For group play, yes, this is a huge buff and spirit mender is better but for solo? You can't recast a skill once every 8 sec in a 1vX, especially when the other morph gives you 10% dmg reduction. Also, deaden pain takes 1 bar space. Most solo necros are forced to take off major brutality sources to slot mobility tools. This is to say that no solo necro can afford using it

And yet major brutality is expected to be cast every 10 seconds on plars, which means whilst on the defensive etc we lose out on 20% increase of spell DMG effecting heals also.
I will maintain the opinion that brutality and sorcery should not be tied to offensive abilities especially one that means that stamplars have to stop execute to include a jab potentially

Man I'd be over the moon if zos decided to give major brutality to skulls xD

LittlePinkDot

Syiccal wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

For group play, yes, this is a huge buff and spirit mender is better but for solo? You can't recast a skill once every 8 sec in a 1vX, especially when the other morph gives you 10% dmg reduction. Also, deaden pain takes 1 bar space. Most solo necros are forced to take off major brutality sources to slot mobility tools. This is to say that no solo necro can afford using it

And yet major brutality is expected to be cast every 10 seconds on plars, which means whilst on the defensive etc we lose out on 20% increase of spell DMG effecting heals also.
I will maintain the opinion that brutality and sorcery should not be tied to offensive abilities especially one that means that stamplars have to stop execute to include a jab potentially

Use Venom arrow for major sorcery

Syiccal

taugrim wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just a note on Necro - you're throwing if you're still using Spirit Guardian over Intensive Mender. Mender was already the better morph and got buffed last patch to be an incredible off-heal for your group. Even solo, the buff helped as your self heal won't get "stolen" as often. On top of all that, Intensive has much better synergy with Deaden Pain, another skill that you should probably be using.

For another pro in Necro - Colossus is still second to none for group bombing on top of someone's pull.

For group play, yes, this is a huge buff and spirit mender is better but for solo? You can't recast a skill once every 8 sec in a 1vX, especially when the other morph gives you 10% dmg reduction. Also, deaden pain takes 1 bar space. Most solo necros are forced to take off major brutality sources to slot mobility tools. This is to say that no solo necro can afford using it

And yet major brutality is expected to be cast every 10 seconds on plars, which means whilst on the defensive etc we lose out on 20% increase of spell DMG effecting heals also.
I will maintain the opinion that brutality and sorcery should not be tied to offensive abilities especially one that means that stamplars have to stop execute to include a jab potentially

Major Brutality on a spammable IMO is fine. It's bar compression.

If all you're doing is spamming Radiant, honestly just unslot the spammable and use another ability that provides Major Brutality / Major Sorcery.

That's not the point I was making, in Pve you have to run pots for sorcery on magplar really, and switch to pots at execute on stamplar as brutality comes from jabs, your not gonna want to do jabs in execute phase. In PvP having brutality and not sorcery like offered to all the other classes on at least the base morph is bad design. If I had my way I'd move to something else away from jabs, maybe bubble I dunno as again you ain't jabbing when playing on the defensive in PvP either so lose out on 20% spell dmg

Pixysticks

I see little has changed then, lol.

Pixysticks

Just be thankful the game is more balanced than it was a decade ago, https://youtu.be/mbj8bQc8E_M?si=X544n-iBvSQWhHqa

Joy_Division

Pixysticks wrote: »

I see little has changed then, lol.

You missed 17 different proc metas. But yeah, who would have ever though it you kept the core features of the strongest classes and removed anything interesting on the others little would change.