8v8 no MMR is going to be a very unpleasant experience for casuals

taugrim

It's going to make queues pop fast. And it will be fun for sweaties looking to blow off steam or just farm.

But on the receiving end, casuals and inexperienced / lesser-skilled players are going to get absolutely run over.

Dem_kitkats1

As there's really no MMR currently, it'll be the same as now. Plus we all know experienced players will find a way to farm no matter what (ie, sweats farming in lowbies or re-rolling characters). At least with a larger team it's more likely to be a mix of players.

The problems would occur if they combined solo and group queues. In that case you shouldn't be able to queue as a 4+ man group imo.

I agree it would be beneficial for all to have a MMR. However, I believe it should apply more to 4v4 if possible. Since it's better suited for competitive play and let the 8v8 mode be a more casual PvP outlet for players. But keep in mind a MMR will affect queue times as battlegrounds doesn't have a very large population.

I'm just happy the 3 team format has been scrapped.

React

I'd like to see the 8v8 remain no MMR, but have a group queue cap of 2 players. So you can queue with a friend for a causal no MMR experience, but you can't queue as a comped four man which is enough to easily farm a group of 8 uncoordinated players.

acastanza_ESO

Yeah, 8v8 shouldn't allow anything more than a duo queue and I question if it should even allow that. If it allows 4 person groups to queue into it it will be absolutely ruined by comped sweats.

bladenick

it shall only allow team query, 4 team with 4 player size.

mix solo & team or solo only will make this mess. as every match become 1 side overhelming...

Einstein_

React wrote: »

I'd like to see the 8v8 remain no MMR, but have a group queue cap of 2 players. So you can queue with a friend for a causal no MMR experience, but you can't queue as a comped four man which is enough to easily farm a group of 8 uncoordinated players.

This, even as a ballgroup player myself...

Aggrovious

React wrote: »

I'd like to see the 8v8 remain no MMR, but have a group queue cap of 2 players. So you can queue with a friend for a causal no MMR experience, but you can't queue as a comped four man which is enough to easily farm a group of 8 uncoordinated players.

I don't like this idea and we shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with friends.

Does BG MMR actually matter, because the match making was already [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

colossalvoids

I'd prefer it still counting player's MMR in some way distributing higher count players between two teams better rather than it being completely random.

xylena_lazarow

Aggrovious wrote: »

I don't like this idea and we shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with friends.

If the goal of this friendly get together is to stomp random solos, then yeah I'm fine punishing that behavior. If that's not the goal, then you're being punished anyway by having to waste your time against players not on your level. The only fair way to do this is to have a solo only queue, even a minmax duo is going to absolutely stomp random casuals.

sbam66

sounds like how it should be. I always wished Q’s would be fast like in Call of Duty

Tommy_The_Gun

I don't know much about BG MMR topic, but I have heard that MMR is there, but the problem was that MMR is basically "grind based" not "skill based". So if you AFK in 1000 BGs you will eventually get enough "rating points" to fight players who for example played only like 10 BGs, but they are top players so they got same points as you, but way faster.

Having no MMR at all is imho significantly worse than having a flawed one.

Also, when it comes to pre-mades... I do think that pre-made team should be fighting other pre-made teams. Or at the very least, if there is a pre-made group of 4 players + solo randoms, then every team should have same pre-made group + some randoms.

BGs are fun when the playfield is even. If it is not, then I might as well go Cyro or IC & get farmed by Ball Group. BGs are supposed to be "competitive" while Cyro & IC is more like PvP sandbox, where nothing matters. So having mm that will pair players of more or less same skills & same class is very important. If they nerf or buff a skill or set it does not matter cuz, in the end of the day if BGs don't have fair mm, then those are not competitive and are just like Cyro or IC where your experience does not matter really as you get steamrolled.

darvaria

Don't allow any groups. Completely solo and then both teams should have about the same in skilled.

SkaraMinoc

Aggrovious wrote: »

React wrote: »

I'd like to see the 8v8 remain no MMR, but have a group queue cap of 2 players. So you can queue with a friend for a causal no MMR experience, but you can't queue as a comped four man which is enough to easily farm a group of 8 uncoordinated players.

I don't like this idea and we shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with friends.

You wouldn't be able to play with your friends because you'd be farmed by that comp'd out premade. You'd be staring at the Death Recap for 90% of the BG. It's better to block premades from 8v8 BGs than to allow more than 3 friends to play together.

Thumbless_Bot

4v4v4v4 or something like that...

Solos only...

death match... match doesn't start until all people drop into battlefield. No los, no cloak, no invisible, no power ups, no environmental traps.

last team standing wins...

Let's gooooo

ForumSavant

Here is an unironic good fix for this problem. Add a good MMR system.

The people who want competitiveness aren't going to enter the 8v8 as much as people think. What drives good groups to not enter the "competitive" 4v4s is the fact that there is no competitive system to engage with. Winning provides next to nothing, and 8v8s will generally have more people, so those who get bored of a system with ZERO rewards that they want, will eventually just go to 8v8s for a more laid back enjoyable experience when their "competitiveness" gains nothing.

xylena_lazarow

ForumSavant wrote: »

The people who want competitiveness aren't going to enter the 8v8 as much as people think.

It'll be the sort of tryhard premade groups who want to "farm pugs" not compete.

Stafford197

The game does not have enough BG PvPers to support proper matchmaking. That’s the reason behind this.

Once the content is no longer considered new, it will be trouble to fill matches.

ForumSavant

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

The people who want competitiveness aren't going to enter the 8v8 as much as people think.

It'll be the sort of tryhard premade groups who want to "farm pugs" not compete.

Yes, the ones who aren't actually that good, or ones that are but want to join casually every once in a while. If a real MMR system is implemented the people who are actually at the highest end will continue to stay in 4v4s mainly.

Minno

TBH I think i'd rather see 3v3v3 (total 9). Should result in the same que pops, but offer a more casual experience since a hardcore group of 3 will have to fight 6 casuals if they are getting stomped too hard.

They should know from WoW that two-team setups are too binary for fast games like ESO.

xylena_lazarow

8v8 solo queue is awesome so far

The_Meathead

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

8v8 solo queue is awesome so far

I haven't played em yet, but this was really my biggest hope for reviving the BG population a bit.

Glad to hear it!

buzzclops

Minno wrote: »

TBH I think i'd rather see 3v3v3 (total 9). Should result in the same que pops, but offer a more casual experience since a hardcore group of 3 will have to fight 6 casuals if they are getting stomped too hard.

They should know from WoW that two-team setups are too binary for fast games like ESO.

This exactly… unfortunately I and others have been saying this for weeks on the pts. They never listen or care apparently.

Right now games are done after the initial fight and there’s no way for the weaker teams to do anything. Especially since ppl rez on their own timers and not as a full team. It’s basically wack a mole after the first fight. We need a 3rd team to create momentum shifts. They wanted something more casual and made it worse lmao. So out of touch….

silky_soft

Nah, 8v8 is not good. This is cyrodiil junk. Would of been better off with 4v4v4v4. You have 2 people on 1 team with no ping and that mow the other team down while being healed by 3 cross Healers. 3 other people just existing.

Sigils need to not pop until after first 2 mins and then only for the losing side.

I like the maps though. Something fresh.

notyuu

Why not just a 16 player free for all?

Chilly-McFreeze

silky_soft wrote: »

This is cyrodiil junk.

100% this

xylena_lazarow

silky_soft wrote: »

This is cyrodiil junk

Yeah that's kinda the appeal of 8v8, that's why they also put a 4v4, but the 4v4 random is way too volatile, you can carry 1 bad player but if your team has 2 bad players it's over, don't bother. If your 8v8 team has 2 bad players the size of the team can cover for them. That's not to say the 8v8 is never lopsided but it's much less frequent than the 4v4.

The game really needs a mercy rule for lopsided matches though, personally I'd rather eat a deserter penalty than slog through 15 minutes where you're either a target dummy, or you're mowing down enemies like it's PvE.

notyuu wrote: »

Why not just a 16 player free for all?

This game would make for an awesome FFA and I'm not sure why the idea isn't more popular.

bladenick

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

This is cyrodiil junk

Yeah that's kinda the appeal of 8v8, that's why they also put a 4v4, but the 4v4 random is way too volatile, you can carry 1 bad player but if your team has 2 bad players it's over, don't bother. If your 8v8 team has 2 bad players the size of the team can cover for them. That's not to say the 8v8 is never lopsided but it's much less frequent than the 4v4.

The game really needs a mercy rule for lopsided matches though, personally I'd rather eat a deserter penalty than slog through 15 minutes where you're either a target dummy, or you're mowing down enemies like it's PvE.

notyuu wrote: »

Why not just a 16 player free for all?

This game would make for an awesome FFA and I'm not sure why the idea isn't more popular.

3 side PVP is best way to solve this

xylena_lazarow

bladenick wrote: »

3 side PVP is best way to solve this

We had that and it was unpopular, sorry. Crazy King 8v8 is actually fun, the concept works now, fights for every flag. Chaosball with 3 balls is brilliant. Fix the bugs and this is gonna be some good PvP.

Chilly-McFreeze

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

3 side PVP is best way to solve this

We had that and it was unpopular, sorry. Crazy King 8v8 is actually fun, the concept works now, fights for every flag. Chaosball with 3 balls is brilliant. Fix the bugs and this is gonna be some good PvP.

We will see how popular two sided BGs will be when novelity wears off.
Would you say design issues of three sided matches could have been solved with eg a reduction in flags (to force more Engagement)?

xylena_lazarow

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Would you say design issues of three sided matches could have been solved with eg a reduction in flags (to force more Engagement)?

You could do that, or push the flags closer together, tons of possibilities, but I think going 2-sided was the right call, considering that 3-sided typically degenerated into 8v4 (against the weaker 4) anyway, and when it didn't, it's because all the players were turtling the entire time afraid to be the side that got doubled.

When you go 2-sided there's less incentive to turtle. Chaosball forces deaths, and the flag ones encourage you to leave the ball and fight over flags leading to small fights where players die.

CTR will degenerate into 15 minutes of 2 ball groups blobbed on one of the relics, and get totally stalled out when red holds green and green holds red, so that mode could use some help. Deathmatch is okay but since it punishes deaths so harshly, you ironically see the most turtling of any mode and it becomes more of a healmatch.

edward_frigidhands

I think no MMR with enforced solo que might be a good idea.

I would like to see 8v8v8 BGs in the future.