Buff Weapon Based Single Target Melee Damage

Thumbless_Bot

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

El_Borracho

Make stinging slashes great again!

Kartalin

I agree there's definitely a risk that comes with playing in melee range that should be rewarded, but we also have to be mindful that with any changes we suggest there's a chance it upsets balance in 1) PVE and 2)fighting ball groups. In light of that we could perhaps utilize the Reach passive in the Assault skill line. Perhaps something like this:

Current Reach passive:
Increases the range of long-range abilities by 2/5 meters while near a keep or outpost. Any ability with a range greater than 28 meters is affected.

New Proximity passive:
Increases either the range or damage of single target abilities while near an objective. When targeting an enemy at a range greater than 28 meters, increase the range by 2/5 meters. When targeting an enemy at a range less than 10 meters, increase the damage by 2/5%.

Something like that perhaps? That way PVE is unaffected by any changes, and at the same time restricting it to single target attacks, the ball groups who rely on AOE attacks would also not be inadvertently buffed.

Thumbless_Bot

Kartalin wrote: »

I agree there's definitely a risk that comes with playing in melee range that should be rewarded, but we also have to be mindful that with any changes we suggest there's a chance it upsets balance in 1) PVE and 2)fighting ball groups. In light of that we could perhaps utilize the Reach passive in the Assault skill line. Perhaps something like this:

Current Reach passive:
Increases the range of long-range abilities by 2/5 meters while near a keep or outpost. Any ability with a range greater than 28 meters is affected.

New Proximity passive:
Increases either the range or damage of single target abilities while near an objective. When targeting an enemy at a range greater than 28 meters, increase the range by 2/5 meters. When targeting an enemy at a range less than 10 meters, increase the damage by 2/5%.

Something like that perhaps? That way PVE is unaffected by any changes, and at the same time restricting it to single target attacks, the ball groups who rely on AOE attacks would also not be inadvertently buffed.

I think this on the right track. However, I would limit this to weapons as to not mess with class identity/skills... just a general thought from my perspective but if done right, sure. I wouldn't know what right looked like for class skills tbh.

Also, from a done right perspective, I do not believe 5% is anywhere even close to enough. If I can track down that ranged player, spending all the resources, pots, etc. To do it, the buff should be a lot more than 5, 10 or even 15 percent.

This is all about risk/reward. Ranged players have the reward for taking build risks by boosting their damage and skirting away unscathed. There is not enough reward for melee players when they risk running melee and use their resources to hunt down that ranged player and succeed. Our damage skills should reflect the reward and it does not, currently. Hence the current meta.

Kartalin

Oh yeah, the numbers can be tweaked, absolutely. But consider the 2h weapon where all abilities are melee. It's possible either the individual skills or specifically 2h passives need a buff instead of tweaking the reach passive. In your first post you compare the damage of dswing and mention no 2h passives, and compare that to snipe + bow passives + assault passives. Are 2h passives too weak, are bow passives doing too much? Something to consider.

LittlePinkDot

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

Snipe is a poor comparison because it's cast time is ridiculously slow. You cannot really spam snipe.
A more accurate comparison would be to compare skills like force pulse, magnum shot, soul wield, swallow soul, screaming cliff racer etc.

As for melee... Make gap closers great again. It shouldn't be too difficult to get close to a ranged caster if you slot a gap closer.

Thumbless_Bot

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

Snipe is a poor comparison because it's cast time is ridiculously slow. You cannot really spam snipe.
A more accurate comparison would be to compare skills like force pulse, magnum shot, soul wield, swallow soul, screaming cliff racer etc.

As for melee... Make gap closers great again. It shouldn't be too difficult to get close to a ranged caster if you slot a gap closer.

I used snipe and dizzy specifically because they both have .8 second cast time. Gap closers cost resources...

Thumbless_Bot

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

Snipe is a poor comparison because it's cast time is ridiculously slow. You cannot really spam snipe.
A more accurate comparison would be to compare skills like force pulse, magnum shot, soul wield, swallow soul, screaming cliff racer etc.

As for melee... Make gap closers great again. It shouldn't be too difficult to get close to a ranged caster if you slot a gap closer.

The only passive that would impact two handed skills is Follow Up which would require a heavy attack and only lasts 3 seconds. Other passives would be accounted for in tooltip

Cast_El

NB is the weakest pvp class ! Buff it ! 🤣
Seriously dude...

Thumbless_Bot

Cast_El wrote: »

NB is the weakest pvp class ! Buff it ! 🤣
Seriously dude...

Not sure if you posted on the wrong thread...but thanks for replying anyway...

No one is arguing nb isn't broken but everyone has access to melee weapons, which is what this thread is about... single target melee weapon skills needing a buff... I mean, it's in the title.

LittlePinkDot

Nightblade isn't that bad. If you catch them they'll die.

Trying to kill a sorc thats spamming hardened ward is busted.

Urzigurumash

We need a skill where we can spin around and wind up and throw our 2h Hammer like we're in the Olympics

Thumbless_Bot

Buff melee damage

Elendir2am

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

NB is the weakest pvp class ! Buff it ! 🤣
Seriously dude...

Not sure if you posted on the wrong thread...but thanks for replying anyway...

No one is arguing nb isn't broken but everyone has access to melee weapons, which is what this thread is about... single target melee weapon skills needing a buff... I mean, it's in the title.

Your suggestion is buffing NBs and tower runners.

xylena_lazarow

Remove all the cast times from melee attacks. Put cast times on all the ranged attacks.

Melee fighters need to be fast and dextrous to function at all.

Ranged casters actually have the time and opportunity to you know, cast.

They've had it absolutely backwards for a while now, i.e. the design of Wield Soul vs 2h Smash.

Major_Mangle

Not so much that melee needs a buff rather than range damage needs a nerf.

Thumbless_Bot

Elendir2am wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

NB is the weakest pvp class ! Buff it ! 🤣
Seriously dude...

Not sure if you posted on the wrong thread...but thanks for replying anyway...

No one is arguing nb isn't broken but everyone has access to melee weapons, which is what this thread is about... single target melee weapon skills needing a buff... I mean, it's in the title.

Your suggestion is buffing NBs and tower runners.

It buffs all melee damage at least for 2h. If nbs get a buff then, perhaps nb need to be looked at.

Thumbless_Bot

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Not so much that melee needs a buff rather than range damage needs a nerf.

I didn't want to say this, but it is an option.... a good one... but I'd prefer a, "if I catch you, you are dead" approach. Would be more fun.

Thumbless_Bot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Remove all the cast times from melee attacks. Put cast times on all the ranged attacks.

Melee fighters need to be fast and dextrous to function at all.

Ranged casters actually have the time and opportunity to you know, cast.

They've had it absolutely backwards for a while now, i.e. the design of Wield Soul vs 2h Smash.

This is a great thought and I agree 👍💯.

Elendir2am

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Not so much that melee needs a buff rather than range damage needs a nerf.

Nerfing offense in game where tank is meta of PvP is brilliant idea really.

Major_Mangle

Elendir2am wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Not so much that melee needs a buff rather than range damage needs a nerf.

Nerfing offense in game where tank is meta of PvP is brilliant idea rely.

Tank meta is only a thing you achieve through optimizing as a group (which is fairly easy with how strong the powercreep has been since they introduced hybridization. Scribing was the pandora´s box that unleashed crazy amount of power creep). That and CP enables for you to achieve very tanky builds. But with the change to undeath it´s very noticeable that people are a lot squishier.

The problem with ranged damage is that you can stack and absurd amount of instances within a very small frame, which you can´t do in the same way with a melee playstyle (I´m not talking about lining up burst with skills, but rather that you can stack 10+ instances of damage in 1-2 gdc´s with stuff like status effects, enchants dmg, light attack dmg, procs etc etc).