ENTIRE Teams Leaving BG Matches

Azzras

This is starting to happen more and more. Entire teams will leave the match now. Why you might ask?
PvP has issues, that's why.
I've watched where 1 person can take 3 ults and have 3 30+hp player hitting them and not take a lick of dmg...then go on to feel like they one shot all 3.
I've seen where 1 player can basically take on both enemy teams and win. That to me seems to go way beyond skill. These ppl will go 24-0 in a BG.
Skill, exploitation, etc? IDK
What I do know is that it should never be possible for 1 player to 1v4 against pvp oriented players and not even take a single point of dmg.
I've died to 1 player bombing. Fine. I've died to 1v3 when we didn't coordinate or they use LoS like a boss. Fine.
I do NOT accept 1v4 brawler taking ULTS, meteor/dawn and just laugh it off. This isn't a single class thing.
I am not great at PvP. I suck compared to great PvPers. That said, I've been in IC with a group of 10+ actual PvP players and watched as 1 person kills us. 1 person taking 3+ ULTS at one time, no dmg, and starts killing everyone while we wail on them. That's not skill. Something is broken. That one person didn't even bother with LoS....

So I ask, what is going on?
If this type of thing is allowed, I beg one of you to give me the build so I can join in.
Is it actual exploitation? If so, what the f ZoS? This is rampant in the game Help us. Save us. Tell us what the f to do. We'll help you help us.
Is it just gear, if so what are they wearing?
HELP A PvP wannabe out!!!
(I have every class and I've tried a ton of internet builds. I admit I'm not great at pvp and could us all the help I can get, but I stand by my assertion that something isn't right with PvP.)

IncultaWolf

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

Azzras

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

You missed me state it's not limited to one class.
Sorcs are killable even with Hardened Ward...
This is something different, and it's NOT limited to sorcs...
Edit:
Mag sorcs tend to stay in the back and run when their precious bubble pops, and it pops quick when you have 3+ppl wailing on you.

IncultaWolf

Azzras wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

You missed me state it's not limited to one class.
Sorcs are killable even with Hardened Ward...
This is something different, and it's NOT limited to sorcs...

It's most likely just a skill issue then. Knowledge of game mechanics and abusing certain sets and champion points, knowing when to block cast your burst heal through enemy ults, etc.

IncultaWolf

Azzras wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

You missed me state it's not limited to one class.
Sorcs are killable even with Hardened Ward...
This is something different, and it's NOT limited to sorcs...
Edit:
Mag sorcs tend to stay in the back and run when their precious bubble pops, and it pops quick when you have 3+ppl wailing on you.

I've actually tanked an entire battleground team of 4 on my magsorc in 5 light armor. Then proceeded to nuke 2 of them by myself. Class is actually broken at the moment.

Azzras

And you were in a BG 24 and 0?
Also, I'm not saying sorcs aren't strong, I'm saying you don't take multple UTLS and your bubble not pop and you streak
If you were anywhere else, you could have been against questers.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you are one of the 'immortals' as I like to call them. I've fought the mag sorcs. I've died to mag sorcs. This issue isn't mag sorc issue. If you think I'm wrong, post your build. Let's test it.

CameraBeardThePirate

This genuinely sounds like you simply don't understand what they're doing to defend themselves.

Well timed blocks with HoTs up can make it seem like someone doesn't take any damage at all. Block mitigation is the single most overtuned stat/mechanic in the game.

Something like Dov Rha Sabatons can make a player wearing only 1 piece of heavy armor still have over 35k resists, while also giving a nice counter stun to prevent ult dumps from killing them.

Sets like Wyrd Tree provide every class with a free purge to prevent things like the DB dot from ever even touching you.

ZOS also made a huge mistake allowing 3 of the new scribing shields to scale off of max health - everyone stacks health in PvP anyways, so now basically anyone has access to shields nearly as strong as Hardened Ward. My necro dedicated "healer" can spam 30k shields on all 4 teammates in a BG nearly endlessly (not exactly what you're talking about but it highlights how OP those scribe shields are)

A sufficiently competent (and comfortable) player will mop the floor with 90% of players every time.

Azzras

Reminder that I suck and I've taken 2 on and killed them.

IncultaWolf

Azzras wrote: »

And you were in a BG 24 and 0?
Also, I'm not saying sorcs aren't strong, I'm saying you don't take multple UTLS and your bubble not pop and you streak
If you were anywhere else, you could have been against questers.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you are one of the 'immortals' as I like to call them. I've fought the mag sorcs. I've died to mag sorcs. This issue isn't mag sorc issue. If you think I'm wrong, post your build. Let's test it.

I actually have a video of me tanking multiple ults, and survived with ward while just standing there in a high MMR battleground. No block needed either 😂

And yes I've gone 24-0 and similar scores all the time over the years I've played pvp. 90% of players are casuals even with pvp builds they get farmed.

Azzras

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This genuinely sounds like you simply don't understand what they're doing to defend themselves.

Well timed blocks with HoTs up can make it seem like someone doesn't take any damage at all. Block mitigation is the single most overtuned stat/mechanic in the game.

Something like Dov Rha Sabatons can make a player wearing only 1 piece of heavy armor still have over 35k resists, while also giving a nice counter stun to prevent ult dumps from killing them.

ZOS also made a huge mistake allowing 3 of the new scribing shields to scale off of max health - everyone stacks health in PvP anyways, so now basically anyone has access to shields nearly as strong as Hardened Ward. My necro dedicated "healer" can spam 30k shields on all 4 teammates in a BG nearly endlessly (not exactly what you're talking about but it highlights how OP those scribe shields are)

A sufficiently competent (and comfortable) player will mop the floor with 90% of players every time.

Share the exact build, pls. I've seen 1 person take out 10 like I said.

Azzras

And if that isn't broken, then I don't know what is.
ENTIRE TEAMS ARE LEAVING BGS

Aggrovious

Azzras wrote: »

And you were in a BG 24 and 0?
Also, I'm not saying sorcs aren't strong, I'm saying you don't take multple UTLS and your bubble not pop and you streak
If you were anywhere else, you could have been against questers.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you are one of the 'immortals' as I like to call them. I've fought the mag sorcs. I've died to mag sorcs. This issue isn't mag sorc issue. If you think I'm wrong, post your build. Let's test it.

No dude, he basically told you how it is. PVP is all about shield stacking, healing, blockings, and then eventually killing players. Shields really are op and you can spam it to not die. Then you can burst someone and if their sustain/healing is terrible, well thats why they leave. I have gone 18-1 before.

Aggrovious

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This genuinely sounds like you simply don't understand what they're doing to defend themselves.

Well timed blocks with HoTs up can make it seem like someone doesn't take any damage at all. Block mitigation is the single most overtuned stat/mechanic in the game.

Something like Dov Rha Sabatons can make a player wearing only 1 piece of heavy armor still have over 35k resists, while also giving a nice counter stun to prevent ult dumps from killing them.

Sets like Wyrd Tree provide every class with a free purge to prevent things like the DB dot from ever even touching you.

ZOS also made a huge mistake allowing 3 of the new scribing shields to scale off of max health - everyone stacks health in PvP anyways, so now basically anyone has access to shields nearly as strong as Hardened Ward. My necro dedicated "healer" can spam 30k shields on all 4 teammates in a BG nearly endlessly (not exactly what you're talking about but it highlights how OP those scribe shields are)

A sufficiently competent (and comfortable) player will mop the floor with 90% of players every time.

I think we should stop punishing PVE because of PVP. Its quite annoying

Azzras

Yet NOT ONE OF YOU share your build.
Fine. You all say it's perfectly fine. Nothing is broken. No exploits. You are the best PvPers ever.
Share the build. Exact build.

Syiccal

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Azzras wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

You missed me state it's not limited to one class.
Sorcs are killable even with Hardened Ward...
This is something different, and it's NOT limited to sorcs...
Edit:
Mag sorcs tend to stay in the back and run when their precious bubble pops, and it pops quick when you have 3+ppl wailing on you.

I've actually tanked an entire battleground team of 4 on my magsorc in 5 light armor. Then proceeded to nuke 2 of them by myself. Class is actually broken at the moment.

Agree, sorcs are very broken right now and it can be near.on impossible to take out a good one, even fotm sorcs that spam ward and streak are a pain to deal with.

CameraBeardThePirate

Azzras wrote: »

Reminder that I suck and I've taken 2 on and killed them.

This.

There's no build that will allow any player to take on a 1v10. It's simply the fact that this game has an incredibly high skill ceiling. Predicting exactly when your opponents are going to ult dump, launch their bow/frag/whip, timing blocks well, roll dodging at the perfect time, knowing who to focus first.

A skilled player can take a setup as simple as Rally/Wretched/Balorgh/1pc Trainee/literally any mythic and utterly destroy 90% of players they come across. Better yet, just use acuity and Wretched, stacking crit damage. Tank up for 25 seconds, drop the house on someone, rinse and repeat. theres a bunch of different set combos that can do this.

Heck, a sufficiently skilled player can go into BGs wearing nothing but rubedite gear and mop the floor with players.

In fact, IsTh3reNo1Else has a great video doing just that - I tried to find this video but couldn't for the life of me. I'll edit this comment and link it if I manage to.

CameraBeardThePirate

Azzras wrote: »

[snip]

Dude, I literally told you what mechanics these players are leveraging.

Purges. Well-timed dodges. Block mitigation. Damage shields. Ult dumps.

That's it. There's no "specific build" because there's 10 million ways to do it. It's literally Wretched + any damage set.

[edited to remove quote]

El_Borracho

While arcanists are not the strongest class, if you are dropping ultis on one while they are using Sanctum, then hang out after to see why they didn't die, you're going to die.

CameraBeardThePirate

Aggrovious wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This genuinely sounds like you simply don't understand what they're doing to defend themselves.

Well timed blocks with HoTs up can make it seem like someone doesn't take any damage at all. Block mitigation is the single most overtuned stat/mechanic in the game.

Something like Dov Rha Sabatons can make a player wearing only 1 piece of heavy armor still have over 35k resists, while also giving a nice counter stun to prevent ult dumps from killing them.

Sets like Wyrd Tree provide every class with a free purge to prevent things like the DB dot from ever even touching you.

ZOS also made a huge mistake allowing 3 of the new scribing shields to scale off of max health - everyone stacks health in PvP anyways, so now basically anyone has access to shields nearly as strong as Hardened Ward. My necro dedicated "healer" can spam 30k shields on all 4 teammates in a BG nearly endlessly (not exactly what you're talking about but it highlights how OP those scribe shields are)

A sufficiently competent (and comfortable) player will mop the floor with 90% of players every time.

I think we should stop punishing PVE because of PVP. Its quite annoying

Where did I say we should punish PvE?

Azzras

I'm not trying to sound like I have an attitude, but come on.
PvP is not in a good spot and you all sugar coating it like it's the 8 other players in BGs that are the problem and not the 1 person isn't going to help. All you're doing is helping end BGs. You all have yet to even consider what I'm telling you...ENTIRE TEAMS are leaving BGs now. Is that working as intended because there's ONE PERSON that can take out both teams?
This is broken.
Please, post your builds that are immortal. Go into BGs for more than your daily. See how it is now. Watch as teams drop out. They'd rather take the debuff than keep playing BGs....that's costing you customers, ZoS.
And again, IT'S NOT A SORC PROBLEM. Sorcs are killable. Sorcs are in a good spot, but they aren't top for killing ppl...not even close. I'm even fine with the NB 2 shot out of stealth. I'm not cool with the immortals. It's not a ward issue...

Syiccal

Sorcs are definitely not in a good spot, literally everyone is saying that even sorc mains.

CameraBeardThePirate

Azzras wrote: »

I'm not trying to sound like I have an attitude, but come on.
PvP is not in a good spot and you all sugar coating it like it's the 8 other players in BGs that are the problem and not the 1 person isn't going to help. All you're doing is helping end BGs. You all have yet to even consider what I'm telling you...ENTIRE TEAMS are leaving BGs now. Is that working as intended because there's ONE PERSON that can take out both teams?
This is broken.
Please, post your builds that are immortal. Go into BGs for more than your daily. See how it is now. Watch as teams drop out. They'd rather take the debuff than keep playing BGs....that's costing you customers, ZoS.
And again, IT'S NOT A SORC PROBLEM. Sorcs are killable. Sorcs are in a good spot, but they aren't top for killing ppl...not even close. Sorcs. I'm even fine with the NB 2 shot out of stealth. I'm not cool with the immortals. It's not a ward issue...

Dude I play BGs all day every day, and I'm not seeing entire teams leave unless they don't get a full 4 players anyways.

And don't take this the wrong way, but you saying that sorcs "aren't top for killing people" kind of shows your inexperience/lack of knowledge, because sorcs are so far ahead of every other class right now it's not even funny.

If a player can kill people on their own, they are not immortal, I promise you. They are just good at their class, good at defending themselves, and could likely have just as much success on a bad build as a good build.

I've already told you a number of sets that these players are almost certainly using, to reiterate:

Wretched Vitality
Roksa (monster)
Balorgh (monster)
Gaze of Sithis (mythic)
Rallying Cry
Tarnished Nightmare
Orders Wrath
Dov Rha Sabatons (mythic)
Death Dealer's Fete (mythic)
Mechanical Acuity
Crafty Alfiq
Shattered Fate
Flame Blossom
Wyrd Tree
Way of Fire
Plaguebreak
Vicious Death
Rush of Agony

Those are basically all of the meta PvP sets (for things outside of coordinated group play). 1vXers will almost certainly be using some combination of those sets.

Stafford197

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Azzras wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

You missed me state it's not limited to one class.
Sorcs are killable even with Hardened Ward...
This is something different, and it's NOT limited to sorcs...
Edit:
Mag sorcs tend to stay in the back and run when their precious bubble pops, and it pops quick when you have 3+ppl wailing on you.

I've actually tanked an entire battleground team of 4 on my magsorc in 5 light armor. Then proceeded to nuke 2 of them by myself. Class is actually broken at the moment.

Because you’re fighting against lowbies and PvE builds. As soon as you go up against equally skilled PvPers you’ll get nuked unless you streak away.

Not arguing about whether Sorc needs changes or not btw. You can prove your point in other ways. I’m just saying that dominating BG matches is a matchmaking issue, not a class balance issue.

I’ve completely dominated matches on Stam DK, Mag DK, Mag Sorc, Stam Sorc, Mag Templar, Mag Warden, and even a few times on my Stamcro. This has nothing to do with my class and everything to do with the individual players I was up against (unless every class is now considered OP).

CameraBeardThePirate

Stafford197 wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Azzras wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Allow us to introduce ourselves (Magicka stacking sorcerers with hardened ward)

You missed me state it's not limited to one class.
Sorcs are killable even with Hardened Ward...
This is something different, and it's NOT limited to sorcs...
Edit:
Mag sorcs tend to stay in the back and run when their precious bubble pops, and it pops quick when you have 3+ppl wailing on you.

I've actually tanked an entire battleground team of 4 on my magsorc in 5 light armor. Then proceeded to nuke 2 of them by myself. Class is actually broken at the moment.

Because you’re fighting against lowbies and PvE builds. As soon as you go up against equally skilled PvPers you’ll get nuked unless you streak away.

Not arguing about whether Sorc needs changes or not btw. You can prove your point in other ways. I’m just saying that dominating BG matches is a matchmaking issue, not a class balance issue.

I’ve completely dominated matches on Stam DK, Mag DK, Mag Sorc, Stam Sorc, Mag Templar, Mag Warden, and even a few times on my Stamcro. This has nothing to do with my class and everything to do with the individual players I was up against (unless every class is now considered OP).

It's definitely not just against lowbies though. I'm a Necro main through and through, and even when fighting the same high mmr players, on my sorc I feel like a god compared to my necro, or even arcanist/warden. Sorc is head and shoulders above the rest of the cast in solo queue at the moment.

The only area it suffers is coordinated small group play, because it lacks in off heals as a dps, has a middling damage synergy, and really only brings Streak + Negate to the table.

Aznox

I've played thousands of BGs since their release, I had periods where I could get multiple 20+/0 KD in a row (not anymore)

There's several reasons that lead to "entire teams leaving" more frequently than before.

None of them are some sort of exploit or secret imbalance that couldn't be found by just thinking or experimenting.

Reasons are :

-> no matchmaking (not new)
-- imagine if League of Legends had no brackets and top 0.1% was put in the same lobby has an average player, they would win every single time, even 1v4
-- same with chess : top 0.1% could "1v20" even top 10% players and not lose a single match

ESO PvP (and especially BG) is cruel because it lets you face a perfectly geared and incredibly trained opponent with your suboptimal (at best) gear and lack of practice (let alone skill), and both gaps are multiplicative. You have absolutely no chance to win such a matchup.

-> faster TTK and overall speed (this is new)
-- for years everyone has complained about "no one dying in PvP" and slowly but surely defense has been toned down relatively to offense, with the final act being undeath nerf
-- now average players are building glasscanons with the hope of getting some (lucky) kill before being deleted themselves
-- add to that the creeping movement speed increase and you get the perfect conditions for the skill-gear gap to be even more painful

So yes, with lower TTK :
- a team that is inherently dominant due to improper matchmaking will now crush opposing teams faster than they can respawn and regroup, leading to entire teams leaving
- a single player with vastly superior skill and gear will look like he has an even easier time wiping a group a 4 mediocre players, although you don't see the odd times where he now sometimes get oneshot by the lucky, uncoordinated burst of a few noob glasscanons, something that would never have happened in older patches/metas.

IncultaWolf

Azzras wrote: »

I'm not trying to sound like I have an attitude, but come on.
PvP is not in a good spot and you all sugar coating it like it's the 8 other players in BGs that are the problem and not the 1 person isn't going to help. All you're doing is helping end BGs. You all have yet to even consider what I'm telling you...ENTIRE TEAMS are leaving BGs now. Is that working as intended because there's ONE PERSON that can take out both teams?
This is broken.
Please, post your builds that are immortal. Go into BGs for more than your daily. See how it is now. Watch as teams drop out. They'd rather take the debuff than keep playing BGs....that's costing you customers, ZoS.
And again, IT'S NOT A SORC PROBLEM. Sorcs are killable. Sorcs are in a good spot, but they aren't top for killing ppl...not even close. I'm even fine with the NB 2 shot out of stealth. I'm not cool with the immortals. It's not a ward issue...

Sorcs are balanced and aren't top for killing people? Alright I honestly just think you're trolling at this point or just truly have no clue how game mechanics work and showing your inexperience with pvp.

Miracle19

Azzras wrote: »

I'm not trying to sound like I have an attitude, but come on.
PvP is not in a good spot and you all sugar coating it like it's the 8 other players in BGs that are the problem and not the 1 person isn't going to help. All you're doing is helping end BGs. You all have yet to even consider what I'm telling you...ENTIRE TEAMS are leaving BGs now. Is that working as intended because there's ONE PERSON that can take out both teams?
This is broken.
Please, post your builds that are immortal. Go into BGs for more than your daily. See how it is now. Watch as teams drop out. They'd rather take the debuff than keep playing BGs....that's costing you customers, ZoS.
And again, IT'S NOT A SORC PROBLEM. Sorcs are killable. Sorcs are in a good spot, but they aren't top for killing ppl...not even close. I'm even fine with the NB 2 shot out of stealth. I'm not cool with the immortals. It's not a ward issue...

Unfortunately what you are experiencing is a huge gap of skill and game/build knowledge. I do regularly get 20, 30+ kills and 0 deaths and that’s simply due to my opponents being significantly worse. I would suggest playing a class like arcanist, Templar, warden that are all tanky and can brawl so that you can learn game mechanics. Using sustain sets like wretched vitality along with a damage set(proc set) and death dealers fete will be a decent beginner setup until you understand mechanics and can move to more advanced setups(double dmg procs usually). The only time a player can 1v2+ is simply due to him being significantly better than his opponents due to skill and build, not one or the other, but both. PVP overall is in a good state, but the game doesn’t do a good job of teaching newer players, which is why this huge skill gap exist and why you are frustrated. Hang in there man!

Azzras

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Azzras wrote: »

I'm not trying to sound like I have an attitude, but come on.
PvP is not in a good spot and you all sugar coating it like it's the 8 other players in BGs that are the problem and not the 1 person isn't going to help. All you're doing is helping end BGs. You all have yet to even consider what I'm telling you...ENTIRE TEAMS are leaving BGs now. Is that working as intended because there's ONE PERSON that can take out both teams?
This is broken.
Please, post your builds that are immortal. Go into BGs for more than your daily. See how it is now. Watch as teams drop out. They'd rather take the debuff than keep playing BGs....that's costing you customers, ZoS.
And again, IT'S NOT A SORC PROBLEM. Sorcs are killable. Sorcs are in a good spot, but they aren't top for killing ppl...not even close. I'm even fine with the NB 2 shot out of stealth. I'm not cool with the immortals. It's not a ward issue...

Sorcs are balanced and aren't top for killing people? Alright I honestly just think you're trolling at this point or just truly have no clue how game mechanics work and showing your inexperience with pvp.

Anyone that acts like sorcs are god mode I don't take seriously.
Yes, they are strong, but they can be either killed or made to run away.
Get over sorcs. I'm not talking about sorcs at all. Only ppl that can't beat sorcs are saying that's the issue with PvP.

Azzras

And for top kills, it's NB. No comparison to NB kills. Ever.

Veinblood1965

Azzras wrote: »

Yet NOT ONE OF YOU share your build.
Fine. You all say it's perfectly fine. Nothing is broken. No exploits. You are the best PvPers ever.
Share the build. Exact build.

It's not the build, it's experience. I got really good on my NB and rarely do BG's but when I do go people die left and right. When I'm rolling a new toon and still learning some of the skills I'm hard to kill due to blocking, roll dodging, breaking line of sight. That's were it is at, mechanics.

The CLASS skills are just extra icing on the cake depending on the class. Mag sorcs ARE tough but when you know what to look for they aren't so bad.

Azzras

That's cool. I'll just keep watching entire teams leave BGs till I'm done even trying myself.