Pyrebrand is the single most overpowered set ever added to this game

MarioMario

BananaBender wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

Relequen is the set with the highest single-target damage, practically 'meta' forever. It has always been toxic in PvP, but at least it had terrible bonuses that balanced out the damage (stamina + 2*crit).

Now there's a set ONLY for DK that deals not 5%, not 10%... but 40% more damage and has 3 excellent bonuses (penetration + 2*wd/sd).

If you don't understand why it's OP, you have very little knowledge of the game.

Ah yes, talking about something other than PvP must mean that I have very little knowledge of the game.
I'm sure a true genius of the game, such as yourself, would know that crit is the best stat you can get from your set and wd/sd, let alone penetration are way worse.

Is the set strong? Yes. Is it the single most overpowered set ever added to this game? Absolutely not. Just because you got killed by it in PvP doesn't mean it's overperforming.

Your response seems more focused on sarcasm than substance, which doesn't really contribute to a meaningful discussion. The context of the conversation was specifically about the imbalance of the set in PvP. Crit is a great stat in PvE, wd and pen are great stats in PvP.

Overall isn't the point here; it's about how this particular set performs in PvP scenarios. I understand that you may see things differently, but dismissing the original argument without any data to back up your claims isn't very constructive.

As for PvE, I honestly don't care much. I have all the trifectas in the game. You can complete all the trifectas with pre-2018 sets and a bit of organization; there was no need for OP classes and OP sets like this one.

Theist_VII

Know what you can’t do when you’re blockcasting?
Light attack.

Blockcasting is the number one problem with DK, so if there’s a set that actively halves the time you’re blocking, I’m fine with it being strong enough to do so.

Also, want to add, 🐊 tears for the OP as a Nightblade. Must be tough having DK back in the meta again, as they are one of the only things that can punish two-tap Blades.

ZhuJiuyin

Interestingly, people keep calling Beacon of Oblivion good and powerful, but call Pyrebrand reasonable, even implying that it's not good enough.

BananaBender

MarioMario wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

Relequen is the set with the highest single-target damage, practically 'meta' forever. It has always been toxic in PvP, but at least it had terrible bonuses that balanced out the damage (stamina + 2*crit).

Now there's a set ONLY for DK that deals not 5%, not 10%... but 40% more damage and has 3 excellent bonuses (penetration + 2*wd/sd).

If you don't understand why it's OP, you have very little knowledge of the game.

Ah yes, talking about something other than PvP must mean that I have very little knowledge of the game.
I'm sure a true genius of the game, such as yourself, would know that crit is the best stat you can get from your set and wd/sd, let alone penetration are way worse.

Is the set strong? Yes. Is it the single most overpowered set ever added to this game? Absolutely not. Just because you got killed by it in PvP doesn't mean it's overperforming.

Your response seems more focused on sarcasm than substance, which doesn't really contribute to a meaningful discussion. The context of the conversation was specifically about the imbalance of the set in PvP. Crit is a great stat in PvE, wd and pen are great stats in PvP.

Overall isn't the point here; it's about how this particular set performs in PvP scenarios. I understand that you may see things differently, but dismissing the original argument without any data to back up your claims isn't very constructive.

As for PvE, I honestly don't care much. I have all the trifectas in the game. You can complete all the trifectas with pre-2018 sets and a bit of organization; there was no need for OP classes and OP sets like this one.

Of course it was mostly sarcastic when you end your argument on "If you don't understand why it's OP, you have very little knowledge of the game." while stating the set is overperforming and looking at it in only one direction. Could it be overpowered in PvP? Sure, I don't know nor do I care. The fact is that as long as the game is not balanced separately between PvP and PvE it doesn't matter how it performs in only one aspect of the game.

In PvE it's a good and solid set, finally something new for DK after Runecarver and it finally makes DK worth bringing instead of Arcanist in specific, mostly single target focused trials. This is a very welcome change overall from PvE perspective.

MarioMario wrote: »

As for PvE, I honestly don't care much. I have all the trifectas in the game.

I'm sure you do, most people on the forums do as soon as someone mentions PvE and balance. As I said previously the set is not going to trivialize any trials or fights for that matter so I don't really see how this is an OP set in PvE but I'm sure you can elaborate me on this one and show some examples that aren't vMoL or other trials which are completely trivial with other sets as well.

YandereGirlfriend

Necros and Templars watching Sorcs, NBs, and DKs quarrel amongst themselves about who is the most OP in PvP is big, "Wait, you guys are getting paid??!" energy, LMAO.

Or like potato-sack-wearing Cindarella watching her spoiled step-sisters trying on their expensive ball dresses.

(At the same time, though, justice for Beacon of Oblivion... because that thing is legitimately horribad.)

MarioMario

BananaBender wrote: »

Could it be overpowered in PvP? Sure, I don't know nor do I care

You wrote a lot, but this would have been enough.

Wuuffyy

This set is not overpowered. It is primarily/heavy ST focused (ie more damage)

It is only on DK.

DK needs the help PvE and it is thematically nice. I intend to use this on my WW and the grind is absurd.

If you must even touch it (it sounds like you just screamed nerf because it was about to drop on console), then make it melee only like savage werewolf OR you can make it 'unable to crit' while Battle Spirit is up (again DK has no free crit, set gives no crit so GL ig)

The execute is highly situational; in fact, the heavy attack proc in general is incredibly situational.

Wuuffyy

MarioMario wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

It does not stacks but ticks istantly every time you re-apply, so every 1second with a correct light attack weave. You can get 2 ticks in 1 second if it ticks before light attack lands, this happens mostly in PvP.

1 tick per second as you can typically only light attack once per second with a perfect rotation.

Wuuffyy

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

Once every 2 seconds...

Wuuffyy

BananaBender wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

How can you release a set that does 40-50% more damage than Relequen on the dummy? @ZOS_Kevin did they do the math before release?

The set is good but not overperforming in PvE, I really hope they wont nerf the first good new set since Azureblight rework just because of PvP.

T* isn't even over performing in PvP. This person is simply incredibly biased and I can only imagine they have a deep hate for DKs (understandable under standard circumstances)

Wuuffyy

Theist_VII wrote: »

Know what you can’t do when you’re blockcasting?
Light attack.

Blockcasting is the number one problem with DK, so if there’s a set that actively halves the time you’re blocking, I’m fine with it being strong enough to do so.

Also, want to add, 🐊 tears for the OP as a Nightblade. Must be tough having DK back in the meta again, as they are one of the only things that can punish two-tap Blades.

Except they aren't even meta anymore (nbs+sorcs reign supreme). Someone also mentioned 'this set can crit' in comparison w/ rele but forgot to mention the only class that can use it is DK (no crit/crit damage passives) AND the set gives NO CRIT.

I'm replying because this set and new combat/concept additions like class sets are the only things keeping my interest in wanting to play this game at all. I'm so tired of the nerf train on things that look good on paper w/ no consideration to ANY downsides while KNOWING ZOS won't 'balance' that thing but rather DESTROY it.

Like I'm not trying to farm this set for my werewolf to have it DESTROYED in 3 months. It's not BiS (it is really good)/the "greatest set of all time" on even normal DK EITHER in PvE OR PvP.

Theignson

So we farmed a complete set of this and I tried it in PvP last night.

It is "ok". Nothing special. I was not getting anywhere near 5k per tick. You need to look in combat metrics. Average was about 1k per tick.

The "Pyreburst" (which is applied by a heavy attack on someone who has dots on them) hits harder and it may be the OP was referring to this. But that requires a heavy attack on someone who already has a dot on them. Usually DK dots are applied in Melee. These days melee in PvP is at a big disadvanatge compared to the ranged Sorcs and NB. The "reward" of the Pyreburst does not compensate for the "risk" of applying it.

The set is ok. Lots of other sets are much more powerful including Tarnished, Anthelmirs construct, Vicious death, and, the worst set in PvP (the crutch of every ball group) RoA

Syiccal

Been trying in PVP myself I see no more than 1k or so ticks

Syiccal

I'm also trying Templar class set and having to chase the proc is a ball ache, why couldn't it just auto fire at the enemy why do I have to pick it up first, there are no such requirements for other class sets.

emsuperman24

FYI this is a pvp perspective-

Guys the hysteria here is hilarious. I just jumped back in the game after a month and a half to pick up this "op" set. Seeing threads like this and all the elite yootoobers posting about it, had to test it myself and boy what a disappointment.

Previously before I left, I was running a proc build similar to this; 5 serpent disdain, 5 way of fire and some arena weapons.

So on coming back I swapped the WOF for PB and it was marginally better at best. I'm getting 500-750 ticks on people, the heavy attack is cool, but landing it in melee range is extremely rare even more so in execute range.

I'm not trying to offend anyone but anyone arguing this is super over-tuned is not a serious person. We have had nbs roaming hitting people with incap for 15k+, sorcs that shield for 10k and heal for 5k, tarnished banaza, rush of agony and the list goes on.

I really don't believe anyone who has actually tested this comes away saying this is the new meta. Will this make a lot of people try dk and play it? Probably. is the set in itself broken? absolutely not.

This reminds me when torc of the ayeliad king came out and the same exact thing happened. People rushed to the forums, the same content creators posted videos about how busted it was and in the end it's a decent niche set.

I really feel gaslit coming back with so much excitement to get the nb/sorc treatment for dk, only to find out it's anything but.

Anyone reading this far, temper your expectations when grinding this set and thinking it will make you overpowered in PVP .

Theist_VII

emsuperman24 wrote: »

FYI this is a pvp perspective-

Guys the hysteria here is hilarious…

What else do you expect from a community suffering Beacon of Oblivion shell-shock? 😂

emsuperman24

Theist_VII wrote: »

emsuperman24 wrote: »

FYI this is a pvp perspective-

Guys the hysteria here is hilarious…

What else do you expect from a community suffering Beacon of Oblivion shell-shock? 😂

I should have been more considerate of this tragedy

Vaqual

at first I was like: "should I just do the math?"

but then I remembered: "the trust-me-bros will guide my steps🙏 "

Aurielle

emsuperman24 wrote: »

FYI this is a pvp perspective-

Guys the hysteria here is hilarious. I just jumped back in the game after a month and a half to pick up this "op" set. Seeing threads like this and all the elite yootoobers posting about it, had to test it myself and boy what a disappointment.

Previously before I left, I was running a proc build similar to this; 5 serpent disdain, 5 way of fire and some arena weapons.

So on coming back I swapped the WOF for PB and it was marginally better at best. I'm getting 500-750 ticks on people, the heavy attack is cool, but landing it in melee range is extremely rare even more so in execute range.

I'm not trying to offend anyone but anyone arguing this is super over-tuned is not a serious person. We have had nbs roaming hitting people with incap for 15k+, sorcs that shield for 10k and heal for 5k, tarnished banaza, rush of agony and the list goes on.

I really don't believe anyone who has actually tested this comes away saying this is the new meta. Will this make a lot of people try dk and play it? Probably. is the set in itself broken? absolutely not.

This reminds me when torc of the ayeliad king came out and the same exact thing happened. People rushed to the forums, the same content creators posted videos about how busted it was and in the end it's a decent niche set.

I really feel gaslit coming back with so much excitement to get the nb/sorc treatment for dk, only to find out it's anything but.

Anyone reading this far, temper your expectations when grinding this set and thinking it will make you overpowered in PVP .

Agreed. I spent some time today testing it out, both melee and ranged and… it’s OK for melee, I guess? Very underwhelming ranged, even with Master’s bow buffing WD further. It parses quite nicely, but in actual practice, consistently landing those light and heavy attacks against competent players is easier said than done. The heavy attacks especially are unreliable during execute (unless fully 1v1), as I’m usually getting beaten to the punch by beaming Templars and Mage’s Wrath. If I had any interest in playing my DK in PVE, I’d probably use the set there. I’m honestly a little annoyed that I wasted all those archive fortunes and spent gold on hakeijos…

Oakfather/Trickery DW/S&B is more enjoyable to me right now, so that’s what I’ll be sticking with for the moment. Still doesn’t touch my 52k magicka sorc, the easiest easy-mode I’ve ever seen in this game.

StaticWave

Major_Mangle

I can see ZOS giving this the savage ww treatment to not being able to be refreshed if the DoT is already active. People also forget how many burning ticks this set generate (basically adding another free 1k+ damage source on top of what the set already does).

Is it as overtuned as old savage ww or current relequen? I personally don't think so, but the set could use some adjustment for sure.

Bashev

Actually I think this set is in a really good spot. I dont find it OP at all. In EU BGs I barely see this set used in high MMR, in Cyro i fought a few DKs but it was ok.

If the set was accessible on Sorcs or NBs then that would be a nightmare as these classes excels at range. But a DK is mostly mele class.

Bashev

StaticWave wrote: »

It looks like the first 2 parses were from a duel and 18 procs in 18 seconds, the last parse was vs you who just tanked and the DK could weave properly and then it double proced more often.

Syiccal

Bashev wrote: »

Actually I think this set is in a really good spot. I dont find it OP at all. In EU BGs I barely see this set used in high MMR, in Cyro i fought a few DKs but it was ok.

If the set was accessible on Sorcs or NBs then that would be a nightmare as these classes excels at range. But a DK is mostly mele class.

To be fair it might be because it's from IA and not many like going in pve let alone IA

Aurielle

Bashev wrote: »

Actually I think this set is in a really good spot. I dont find it OP at all. In EU BGs I barely see this set used in high MMR, in Cyro i fought a few DKs but it was ok.

If the set was accessible on Sorcs or NBs then that would be a nightmare as these classes excels at range. But a DK is mostly mele class.

Agreed. I tried to make ranged Pyrebrand work with a Master's bow, but DKs really do need to be in melee range to be most effective. I like it as an alternative to Plaguebreak on my melee DK (mainly for thematic reasons -- dealing disease damage on a DK just doesn't feel right). It's effective and it looks cool, but it's definitely not ridiculously OP or anything like that. Doesn't even hold a candle to the kind of damage Sorcs and NBs are putting out right now.

TechMaybeHic

Syiccal wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Actually I think this set is in a really good spot. I dont find it OP at all. In EU BGs I barely see this set used in high MMR, in Cyro i fought a few DKs but it was ok.

If the set was accessible on Sorcs or NBs then that would be a nightmare as these classes excels at range. But a DK is mostly mele class.

To be fair it might be because it's from IA and not many like going in pve let alone IA

IA is terrible RNG for limited chances. Even worse if you don't have the first DK set. Then there are a few bugs you can run into and RNG for enemies. Makes it really feel awful

katorga

MarioMario wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

It does not stacks but ticks istantly every time you re-apply, so every 1second with a correct light attack weave. You can get 2 ticks in 1 second if it ticks before light attack lands, this happens mostly in PvP.

Just like Savage Werewolf, but better. I play ranged bow DK, and it plays just like the old Savage build on sorcerer, only better. Pyrebrand/Threads of War.

Bashev

katorga wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

It does not stacks but ticks istantly every time you re-apply, so every 1second with a correct light attack weave. You can get 2 ticks in 1 second if it ticks before light attack lands, this happens mostly in PvP.

Just like Savage Werewolf, but better. I play ranged bow DK, and it plays just like the old Savage build on sorcerer, only better. Pyrebrand/Threads of War.

Is this build for Zerg surfing or what?

katorga

Bashev wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

It does not stacks but ticks istantly every time you re-apply, so every 1second with a correct light attack weave. You can get 2 ticks in 1 second if it ticks before light attack lands, this happens mostly in PvP.

Just like Savage Werewolf, but better. I play ranged bow DK, and it plays just like the old Savage build on sorcerer, only better. Pyrebrand/Threads of War.

Is this build for Zerg surfing or what?

Whatever I found in Cyro...worked fine. Mismatched, poorly traited Pyrbrand. Grabbed Threads of War left over from testing on a different build thinking that an extra 1K per light attack and minor breach would up the pressure. There are probably better options.

Same concept as using relequen, draugrkin, asylum destro, pre-nerf savage werewolf. The problem is you can do the same concept better on a NB....hard to replicate the ranged burst from Merciless on any other class.

One-barring it with Oakensoul, and I could solo some of the tougher DLC world bosses while testing.

MarioMario

emsuperman24 wrote: »

FYI this is a pvp perspective-

So on coming back I swapped the WOF for PB and it was marginally better at best. I'm getting 500-750 ticks on people, the heavy attack is cool, but landing it in melee range is extremely rare even more so in execute range.

@StaticWave showed you are doing something wrong.

And btw in BG, where there's less mitigation, I got some 2k+ ticks.