U44 Necromancy QoL – 3 Easy Skill Changes to Improve Kludgy Necro Play

Mizzer

Quick Win Priority Order:
1) Grave Lord’s Sacrifice – Auto refresh this critical class buff every 3rd Skull Cast.
Issue: Buff Maintenance: Feels like too much time maintaining buffs rather than actually having fun fighting enemies. Currently need to maintain critical 15% damage buffs every 20 seconds or be penalized.
These types of abilities are not fun because it’s just a stat boost and a dead cast. It was brutal to have to cast 1.3 sec Channeled Acceleration to gain minor force for 60 sec before there were other means in game but Grave Lord Sacrifice is every 20 sec and with more severe penalty if not cast. All active and future damage suffers until cast again and then need to wait 2.5 secs. Same with DK Igneous weapons but at least that is saving many others the pain from having to maintain the buff.
QoL Improvement – Auto refresh this class buff every 3rd Skull Cast. Create corpse on auto refresh if remaining duration <= 10 Sec. If buffs drops off then need to recast.


2) Prophecy/Savagery Buff – Make active on both bars if Siphon slotted
Issue: Buff Uptime and Maintenance – Currently need to wait until after combat starts and corpse spawns and aim cast in direction of dead enemy to start buff. This mini game is awful to continuously play. It is penalty enough to have this weak DPS skill slotted but having to wait for corpse and need to cast in an area that many times results in no dps because enemies have moved or are just not near where the corpse spawned feels really bad to repeat every 20 secs. Not having reliable uptime on this major buff impacts damage from other skills too.
QoL Improvement: Buff should be active and persist on both bars when skill is slotted like DK FOB.


3) Major Sorcery/Brutality Buff– Extend Magicka Skeletal buff duration to 30 Sec

1. Buff is Ok because can maintain 100% uptime from start of fight but feels like need to cast an awful lot along with other necro abilities just to maintain buffs. Consider extending to 30 Sec buff for Magicka morph only.
2. Targeting - Have pet (Skeleton, Blast Bones, Etc.) target enemy that is Tab targeted > Last Hit by Skulls > Last Heavy Attach

QoL Improvement: Have buff last 30 secs for the lower DPS Magicka morph and 20 sec for Stam morph that ramps up in damage. 20 Sec does not feel as bad for Stam morph because want to recast to be rewarded with increased damage but for Mag trade less damage for less buff management.



FUTURE CONCEPT DESIGN IMPROVEMENT NOT FULLY VETTED
4) Pet Targeting – Allow user to better control how pets target enemies. For necro have pet (Skeleton and Blast Bones) target enemy with the following flag:
a. Enemy is Tab targeted >
b. Last Hit by Class Skulls Ability (maybe any spammable?) >
c. Last Hit by Heavy Attach
This is lower on the list as I am not a big pet user but seem to notice issues with targeting in PVE and PVP. Need ability to target key enemies.

FUTURE CONCEPT DESIGN IMPROVEMENT NOT FULLY VETTED
5) Grave Lord Sacrifice Execute – Necros need an actual sticky DOT.

Currently, seems necros use more non class abilities. I think the Grave Lord ability has potential as a Necro execute that would interact with Death Knell and Rapid rot instead of the current stat stick ability.

Some sort of sticky dot that could be cast on a target and refreshed with skulls. The icy sticky dot would begin to increase in damage at 25% and spreads poison and/or disease status effects to surrounding targets on refresh. This execute would be way more fun than a stat stick ability but would need go through standard PVE vs. PVP design thought process.

Zodiarkslayer

2) and 3), absolutely agree.

I am unsure on 1), because the simpler solution is to extend the duration. That would not impact how many corpses are generated, but make buff management more bearable.
I also think the buffs size should be increased to at least 20%. Maybe 25%.

4) Pets are a general problem, because it is the game's AI that controls them. All other pets/summons/companions have the same issues. And I fear it'll never be addressed.

5) Yes, Necro needs a sticky DoT. And No, Gravelords Sacrifice shouldn't be overladden with effects. Other, less used abilities in the Necro lines should be reworked for that purpose.

Navaac223

Mizzer wrote: »

Priority Order:
1) Grave Lord’s Sacrifice – Auto refresh this critical class buff every 3rd Skull Cast.
Issue: Buff Maintenance: Feels like too much time maintaining buffs rather than actually having fun fighting enemies. Currently need to maintain critical 15% damage buffs every 20 seconds or be penalized.
These types of abilities are not fun because it’s just a stat boost and a dead cast. It was brutal to have to cast 1.3 sec Channeled Acceleration to gain minor force for 60 sec before there were other means in game but Grave Lord Sacrifice is every 20 sec and with more severe penalty if not cast. All active and future damage suffers until cast again and then need to wait 2.5 secs. Same with DK Igneous weapons but at least that is saving many others the pain from having to maintain the buff.
QoL Improvement – Auto refresh this class buff every 3rd Skull Cast. Create corpse on auto refresh if remaining duration <= 10 Sec. If buffs drops off then need to recast.

The best way to fix GLS is to bring back stalking blastbones

Mizzer wrote: »

Priority Order:
2) Prophecy/Savagery Buff – Make active on both bars if Siphon slotted
Issue: Buff Uptime and Maintenance – Currently need to wait until after combat starts and corpse spawns and aim cast in direction of dead enemy to start buff. This mini game is awful to continuously play. It is penalty enough to have this weak DPS skill slotted but having to wait for corpse and need to cast in an area that many times results in no dps because enemies have moved or are just not near where the corpse spawned feels really bad to repeat every 20 secs. Not having reliable uptime on this major buff impacts damage from other skills too.
QoL Improvement: Buff should be active and persist on both bars when skill is slotted like DK FOB.

Yes, and while we're at it, the dismember passive should either be a stacking bonus like "pressure point" for nb or active while a grave lord ability is slotted. There's no reason necro should have to work more for less results than other classes

Mizzer wrote: »

Priority Order:

3) Major Sorcery/Brutality Buff– Extend Magicka Skeletal buff duration to 30 Sec

1. Buff is Ok because can maintain 100% uptime from start of fight but feels like need to cast an awful lot along with other necro abilities just to maintain buffs. Consider extending to 30 Sec buff for Magicka morph only.
2. Targeting - Have pet (Skeleton, Blast Bones, Etc.) target enemy that is Tab targeted > Last Hit by Skulls > Last Heavy Attach

QoL Improvement: Have buff last 30 secs for the lower DPS Magicka morph and 20 sec for Stam morph that ramps up in damage. 20 Sec does not feel as bad for Stam morph because want to recast to be rewarded with increased damage but for Mag trade less damage for less buff management.

This misses the underlying issue with this skill : it sucks.
If it was registered as a DoT, then we could feel like we're doing damage thanks to the rapid rot passive.

Mizzer wrote: »

Priority Order:


FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS NOT FULLY VETTED
4) FUTURE - Pet Targeting – Allow user to better control how pets target enemies. For necro have pet (Skeleton and Blast Bones) target enemy with the following flag:
a. Enemy is Tab targeted >
b. Last Hit by Class Skulls Ability (maybe any spammable?) >
c. Last Hit by Heavy Attach
This is lower on the list as I am not a big user but seem to notice issues with targeting in PVE and PVP. Need ability to target key enemies.

Yes, exactly that : we need to control our summons. The fact that a necromancer can't control the dead is stupid.

Mizzer wrote: »

Priority Order:

5) FUTURE – Grave Lord Sacrifice Execute – Necros need an actual sticky DOT.

Currently, seems necros use more non class abilities. I think the Grave Lord ability has potential as a Necro execute that would interact with Death Knell and Rapid rot instead of the current stat stick ability.

Some sort of sticky dot that could be cast on a target and refreshed with skulls. The icy sticky dot would begin to increase in damage at 25% and spreads poison and/or disease status effects to surrounding targets on refresh. This execute would be way more fun than a stat stick ability but would need go through standard PVE vs. PVP design thought process.

Yes, give us a sticky DoT zos, I'm begging you. Though I don't think putting it on GLS is a good idea : we would have to choose between a sticky DoT or blastbones wich, for pvp, is a no brainer. There are a lot of useless abilities that could get it. Maybe the worst spammable in the game flame skull could get it (along with consistent and faster animations) and suck a little less ?

BasP

2) Definitely agree.

3) Truth be told, I don't mind the duration of the Skeletal Arcanist myself. I think that the range of the AOE should be increased to 8 meters instead of 5 meters though. The damage both morphs deal should be buffed as well; it could be increased by 25% and it still wouldn't make either morph OP. (I believe the NB's Dark Shade, which is pretty similar mechanically, deals 30% more DPS and has an 8m radius for example.) It would also be nice if the skill would count as DOT so that it could proc Runecarver.

4) Agreed.

5) The Necromancer definitely needs more DOTs. I personally like the idea of changing Remote Totem into a Point Blank AoE DoT like Deadly Cloak or Arctic Blast. Instead of fearing opponents and applying Major Cowardice, it could deal damage and apply Minor Cowardice, snare opponents or apply Minor Brittle or something.

This would be my personal (QoL) wish list, alongside the above mentioned changes:

- I'd like Spirit Guardian to heal for a bit more. (It would also be nice if the skill would last 20 seconds, but that would be a bad change for tanks and maybe PvP I believe?)
- I'd like Necromancer's to have a source of passive healing. Perhaps it could be added to the Corpse Consumption passive: "When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate and are healed for X over Y seconds. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds."
- I'd like Death Scythe to deal the same base damage as Abyssal Impact
- I'd like Blighted Blastbones' damage to be increased by 10% (or get the old Stalking modifier).

Edit: To make the Skeletal Arcanist more viable, perhaps it could have its own version of Exhausting Fatecarver to cleave down your enemies? That way, you'd actually summon an undead Arcanist.

YandereGirlfriend

One of the morphs of Bone Armor

BasP wrote: »

2) Definitely agree.

3) Truth be told, I don't mind the duration of the Skeletal Arcanist myself. I think that the range of the AOE should be increased to 8 meters instead of 5 meters though. The damage both morphs deal should be buffed as well; it could be increased by 25% and it still wouldn't make either morph OP. (I believe the NB's Dark Shade, which is pretty similar mechanically, deals 30% more DPS and has an 8m radius for example.) It would also be nice if the skill would count as DOT so that it could proc Runecarver.

4) Agreed.

5) The Necromancer definitely needs more DOTs. I personally like the idea of changing Remote Totem into a Point Blank AoE DoT like Deadly Cloak or Arctic Blast. Instead of fearing opponents and applying Major Cowardice, it could deal damage and apply Minor Cowardice, snare opponents or apply Minor Brittle or something.

This would be my personal (QoL) wish list, alongside the above mentioned changes:

- I'd like Spirit Mender to heal for a bit more. (It would also be nice if the skill would last 20 seconds, but that would be a bad change for tanks and maybe PvP I believe?)
- I'd like Necromancer's to have a source of passive healing. Perhaps it could be added to the Corpse Consumption passive: "When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate and are healed for X over Y seconds. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds."
- I'd like Death Scythe to deal the same base damage as Abyssal Impact
- I'd like Blighted Blastbones' damage to be increased by 10% (or get the old Stalking modifier).

Edit: To make the Skeletal Arcanist more viable, perhaps it could have its own version of Exhausting Fatecarver to cleave down your enemies? That way, you'd actually summon an undead Arcanist.

Adding a melee AOE DOT a la Hurricane to like Beckoning Armor would be a neat little synergy... pull ranged attackers in to you and start eating the DOT. The main issue with those sorts of AOE DOTs is mobility, a chronic Necro pain point, so affixing it to an ability that punishes kiting would work well, at least IMO.

And then, of course, the class needs a true sticky DOT as well as converting the Mage/Archer into actual DOTs.

StarOfElyon

I'll just share this one here:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Perhaps this is the fix for the major and minor buffs that will make everyone happy. Suggested changes to passives follow:

Corpse Consumption: When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds. You also gain Major Savagery and Prophecy for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Undead Confederate: While you have a Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender active, your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery is increased by 200. You also gain Major Brutality and Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

I will be adding these to my earlier post.

BasP

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

2) Definitely agree.

3) Truth be told, I don't mind the duration of the Skeletal Arcanist myself. I think that the range of the AOE should be increased to 8 meters instead of 5 meters though. The damage both morphs deal should be buffed as well; it could be increased by 25% and it still wouldn't make either morph OP. (I believe the NB's Dark Shade, which is pretty similar mechanically, deals 30% more DPS and has an 8m radius for example.) It would also be nice if the skill would count as DOT so that it could proc Runecarver.

4) Agreed.

5) The Necromancer definitely needs more DOTs. I personally like the idea of changing Remote Totem into a Point Blank AoE DoT like Deadly Cloak or Arctic Blast. Instead of fearing opponents and applying Major Cowardice, it could deal damage and apply Minor Cowardice, snare opponents or apply Minor Brittle or something.

This would be my personal (QoL) wish list, alongside the above mentioned changes:

- I'd like Spirit Mender to heal for a bit more. (It would also be nice if the skill would last 20 seconds, but that would be a bad change for tanks and maybe PvP I believe?)
- I'd like Necromancer's to have a source of passive healing. Perhaps it could be added to the Corpse Consumption passive: "When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate and are healed for X over Y seconds. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds."
- I'd like Death Scythe to deal the same base damage as Abyssal Impact
- I'd like Blighted Blastbones' damage to be increased by 10% (or get the old Stalking modifier).

Edit: To make the Skeletal Arcanist more viable, perhaps it could have its own version of Exhausting Fatecarver to cleave down your enemies? That way, you'd actually summon an undead Arcanist.

Adding a melee AOE DOT a la Hurricane to like Beckoning Armor would be a neat little synergy... pull ranged attackers in to you and start eating the DOT. The main issue with those sorts of AOE DOTs is mobility, a chronic Necro pain point, so affixing it to an ability that punishes kiting would work well, at least IMO.

And then, of course, the class needs a true sticky DOT as well as converting the Mage/Archer into actual DOTs.

Yeah, adding such a DOT to Beckoning Armor sounds nice as well. It might become a bit overloaded if it gave Major/Minor Resolve, pulled enemies in and dealt damage though? Seeing as ZOS seems to nerf skills that have too much effects lately (Arctic Blast and Cephaliarch's Flail come to mind).

I've been going over the Necromancer's skills to see what skill could be turned into a sticky DOT and maybe the least used morph of Render Flesh could be used? Blood Sacrifice sounds fitting for such a skill: You apply Minor Defile to yourself, while inflicting your opponent with a DOT. But I'm not sure if that morph is commonly used by healers or something.

Dkrewe

It's funny because they made these changes, and the only one that was really useful at all was making their new blastbones morph not require being in combat any longer.

Entropy morph still feels like the better option for Maj Brutality/Sorcery. Class in general still basically doesn't have enough offensive pressure to threaten anyone in PVP (they can just heal through it while bursting you down easily with their class skills).

QOL for Necromancer will be giving our class skills a dmg re-work since they removed the only real burst we had outside of ult dump.

Stafford197

These changes would help the current class, but IMO the real issue is the entire class kit. This class does not feel like a Necromancer.

Until we can raise many skeletons to fight for us, and focus our stats and power into buffing them to fight for us/deal tons of damage, this whole class is just a bunch of bundled together generic skills that each class has, with maybe a few exceptions like the tether abilities.

Mizzer

Thanks to all who provided feedback. There was total consensus that Quick Win 2 should be implemented and agreement that Quick Wins 1 and 3 would improve QoL but root class issues still need to be addressed.

I hope the combat design team review this feedback and consider for Update 44.

Quick Win
2) Prophecy/Savagery Buff – Make active on both bars if Siphon slotted

Issue: Buff Uptime and Maintenance – Currently need to wait until after combat starts and corpse spawns and aim cast in direction of dead enemy to start buff. This mini game is awful to continuously play. It is penalty enough to have this weak DPS skill slotted but having to wait for corpse and need to cast in an area that many times results in no dps because enemies have moved or are just not near where the corpse spawned feels really bad to repeat every 20 secs. Not having reliable uptime on this major buff impacts damage from other skills too.

QoL Improvement: Buff should be active and persist on both bars when skill is slotted like DK FOB.

In current state, I am sorry to say my DPS Necro will likely continue to ride the bench until QoL improves.

Mizzer

@ZOS_Kevin

Would please share the results of this player input on Quick Win 2 with the Dev team? Of the play base that commented, all agreed this would be a QOL improvement. There was also agreement around 1 and 3 but additional design work was desired.

Quick Win 2) Prophecy/Savagery Buff – Make active on both bars if Siphon slotted
QoL Improvement: Buff should be active and persist on both bars when skill is slotted like DK FOB.

Thank you for your help!

StarOfElyon

As long as the necromancer class is designed only to hit a stationary target, the class will always be dog doo-doo.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

This is an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes) with adjustments accounting for the Update 43 patch notes.

Death Scythe: (both morphs)
Deals more damage based on the enemy's missing health.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit, in addition to healing the caster over time.

Shocking Siphon: The AOE should remain on the ground even if the tether breaks early. (Increase the radius size too)
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.

Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)

Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player character even if the tether breaks early.

Grave Grasp: Summon three patches of skeletal claws from the ground in front of you. Enemies in the first area are stunned for 3 seconds, immobilized in the second area for 4 seconds, and snared in the final area by 50% for 5 seconds. Each patch applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 10 seconds, reducing their damage done by 5%.

Render Flesh:
- Resistant Flesh: (remains unchanged)
- Blood Sacrifice: consumes a corpse to grant you Major Courage (or Major Berserk) for 10 seconds.

Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.

Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.

Boneyard increase the radius to 8 meters.

PASSIVES:
Corpse Consumption: When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds. You also gain Major Savagery and Prophecy for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Undead Confederate: While you have a Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender active, your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery is increased by 200. You also gain Major Brutality and Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.

Joy_Division

I would not want to build off of ZOS's poor ideas.

The three mechanics in the OP are precisely why I stopped playing a Necro, and a few extra second duration or having a skill I dislike active on both bars isn't making the Necro something I'd want to play.

Justosay

Are you still using skills to get Major Prophecy/Savagery/Sorcery/Brutality? Umm....
There is Oakensoul ring...

Grave Lord's Sacrifice is awkward to use because it has a delay before "application" and it's weird to use it just to get more corpses (maybe just in very rare long-long-long battles with the single encounter without any adds). A much more useful in my opinion is Necrotic Powerency (in combination with Dawnbreaker). Ultima is starting to be used very often (especially with group encounters and Spirit Mender).