Marauders are Still Unfun and Need a Significant Nerf

Morvan · August 22

jaws343 wrote: »

Zhal'hassa in early ARCs can almost be slept through and the fight is more about static mechanic following than being a heavy hitting boss. People have trouble following the encounter mechanics, not the damage from the boss.

I'll be repeating myself, but yes, every cycle boss can be slept through on early stages because they're all so easy you won't be able to notice the difference between them, but that doesn't apply to the Marauders, they are meant to be tough even early, so you will notice the difference early on.

Making the early marauders easier won't stop anyone from complaining when they actually get harder later on, you'll just be making IA longer by nerfing them, the outliers will always be present because the discrepancy and damage difference between bosses is a present feature for every boss in the game.

Even outside IA bosses are different from each other and some are more problematic mechanic wise while others just hit like a truck, some are both, and that's difficulty variation for you.

Necrotech_Master · August 22

the only marauder i feel which still needs a nerf is gothmau, that bleed on his light attack is just awful, otherwise i think they are all generally balanced for what they are supposed to do

spartaxoxo · August 22

Morvan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

No. It isn't. The marauders take up threads in otherwise easy arcs and there's no skips. Which means when you finally get to the arcs where the entire thing is a challenge, you don't have the threads necessary to spend actually learning how to take on the challenge.

I don't understand how you can see later stages as a challenging learning experience but a casual marauder taking you by surprise once every entire arc is a problem, that's probably a perspective thing I guess.

They are absurdly stronger than anything around them when they show up, yes, but that doesn't change at all on later stages.

Because it's not the challenge I take issue with, it's that it's inappropriately early, resulting in being trapped in otherwise boring gameplay. It ironically lowers the difficulty of my entire run because depending on RNG I spend little time on the actually difficult arcs.

And yes, dying to them does you from getting there because you only get 3 to 4 lives.

spartaxoxo · August 22

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only marauder i feel which still needs a nerf is gothmau, that bleed on his light attack is just awful, otherwise i think they are all generally balanced for what they are supposed to do

He's the only OG one I take issue with, can't try the new ones yet

Morvan · August 22

spartaxoxo wrote: »

He's the only OG one I take issue with, can't try the new ones yet

I'm sure you'll love the werewolf one.

Necrotech_Master · August 22

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only marauder i feel which still needs a nerf is gothmau, that bleed on his light attack is just awful, otherwise i think they are all generally balanced for what they are supposed to do

He's the only OG one I take issue with, can't try the new ones yet

the minotaur i find is one of the easiest marauders, maybe equivalent to ulmor

his attacks hit a little harder but he has no bleeds, no range, and his only aoe is a molten fire patch

the WW marauder is a bit tougher, he graphically does a mechanic similar to balorgh though from what i can tell it doesnt really do anything special except limit visibility, i think this marauder does have a bleed but its nowhere near as nasty as gothmaus, and he has no ranged attacks so a squishier character can easily kite him as long as you make sure you dodge his attacks, he has a heavy attack that hits twice as its the standard 2 claw swipes so you dont want to dodge too early or you will catch the 2nd swipe still

so my ranking for marauders for easiest->hardest would be:

ulmor, minotaur, hilkrax, WW, gothmau

xylena_lazarow · August 22

DenverRalphy wrote: »

while I'm loathe to say it, it falls under the category of "Git Gud".

Skillfully playing around one-shots in what should be casual grind content simply isn't fun for most players.

XSTRONG · August 22

Im on Ps5 so havent fought the new Marauders yet but, the fact is Zos didnt nerf Gothmau yet they must know he is way overtuned.

You encounter 1 Marauder per Arc and I think Gothmau and maybe a new one is meant to be a killing machine unless you play with a good tank or have a good IA build. And I have no problem with that.

Now one thing I been wondering about is why Tho'at and about every boss in IA are alot more easier when you get past Arc 3 Solo then the monster Stages after that Arc in other words the mob stages ramp up in difficulty but not the bosses.

CGPsaint · August 22

freespirit wrote: »

Whilst I was quite shocked to see a hit for over 32k on my death recap and annoyed because the Mino was nearly dead.....

I learned to beat Gothmau and I will learn to beat the Mino but a hit for 32k in Arc 2 does seem quite high imo! 😲

Don't get me wrong, I learned how to defeat Gothmau as well, but running around kiting a Marauder for 10+ minutes after Arc 4 is not my idea of fun.

cyclonus11 · August 22

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

spartaxoxo · August 22

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

@ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Necrotech_Master · August 22

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

all of the companions seem to do that, and only with gothmau but none of the other marauders

pklemming · August 22

The whole new additions kind of suck. I didn't like either of the marauders, especially on later arcs. The light mechanic and meteor should have no place there. The field that covers a group of mobs preventing any damage is also frustrating later on, when there is no way of range pulling them out because the area is too small.This also applies to the mobs standing in the lightbringer circle. in LC we can range pull stuff out. A lot of the arenas here don't allow that.

The whole thing shows they don't understand what a roguelite actually is and what makes them fun.They managed to make literally the worst roguelite I have ever played, and I have played some bad ones.

malistorr · August 22

Marauders should be less powerful if someone is solo if that is not already the case. Either that or don't allow IA to be solo period. I ran IA with another person who tanks the marauders when they appear and they were pretty easy to kill. Without a tank you run around for several minutes and get shots in when you can and hope they don't kill you. It's not very fun gameplay.

ESO_player123 · August 22

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

@ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Yes, Gothmau is constantly ignoring my tank companion and only very occasionally decides to notice that he is being taunted. And that is with me on a HA build. So, no one can say that I'm not directing Bastian towards Gothmau.

This Gothmau's behavior is very different from the reaction to a taunt from a companion of the other marauders. So, is this a bug of some sort?

valenwood_vegan · August 22

malistorr wrote: »

Either that or don't allow IA to be solo period.

Why do people always suggest stuff like this? No thanks, they should not remove the solo option just because it's too difficult for some people. Some of us quite enjoy it. Suggest improving, or finding a partner.

That said, I have always found the marauders to be a bit overtuned and after the thrill of beating them a couple times they do become pretty tedious and unfun... I often just let them quickly one-shot me in later arcs so I can get on with things.

ZoS sees things differently obviously, but I personally would have preferred if the marauders were introduced as more of an optional challenge for a nice bonus reward and a better leaderboard score for those who are seeking that, rather than a run-spoiler for many people.

Adaarye · August 22

I find the WW Marauder very difficult. The limited vision makes him pretty much impossible for me. I think accessability got thrown out the front door when designing this mob.

freespirit · August 22

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If they keep one shotting you, perhaps consider slotting a damage shield in lieu of a dps skill.

IA is not kind to DPS load-out builds. Marauders make very short work of DPS glass cannons. Esoecially if you're goin solo with a companion.

Ok so as I said earlier I learned to beat Gothmau I will learn to beat the Bull......

The 32k damage I got hit for came rapidly after several other hits, I run the early Arcs with around 34k health, I was not blocking and had not had a chance to reapply my shield, I do have a shield on my bar though.

I was just shocked at such a large hit in Arc 2, it is entirely possible Gothmau hits that hard too but as I have sussed him out now I have not seen a deathcap for him recently.

Also saying "git gud", this was my first fight against the Minotaur and tbh I probably didn't take it seriously enough, however I feel that expression is neither helpful nor friendly!!

Necrotech_Master · August 22

ESO_player123 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Yes, Gothmau is constantly ignoring my tank companion and only very occasionally decides to notice that he is being taunted. And that is with me on a HA build. So, no one can say that I'm not directing Bastian towards Gothmau.

This Gothmau's behavior is very different from the reaction to a taunt from a companion of the other marauders. So, is this a bug of some sort?

the bug what i can tell is the companions do not aggro on him at all, or its like they cant, they occasionally tap him but frequently just stand around looking like they dont know what to do

it doesnt seem to matter if your companion is melee or ranged, they cant seem to aggro properly on gothmau

ESO_player123 · August 22

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Yes, Gothmau is constantly ignoring my tank companion and only very occasionally decides to notice that he is being taunted. And that is with me on a HA build. So, no one can say that I'm not directing Bastian towards Gothmau.

This Gothmau's behavior is very different from the reaction to a taunt from a companion of the other marauders. So, is this a bug of some sort?

the bug what i can tell is the companions do not aggro on him at all, or its like they cant, they occasionally tap him but frequently just stand around looking like they dont know what to do

it doesnt seem to matter if your companion is melee or ranged, they cant seem to aggro properly on gothmau

I did not notice Bastian standing and doing nothing. He actually actively trying to hit Gothmau. But with me constantly kiting I guess it's too much of a task for him. But he manages just fine with other Marauders (actually, can't say anything about WW one since I did not get a chance to see him yet). But OCCASIONALLY Bastian manages to keep Gothmau's attention. So, it's working at least sometimes.

CGPsaint · August 22

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If they keep one shotting you, perhaps consider slotting a damage shield in lieu of a dps skill.

IA is not kind to DPS load-out builds. Marauders make very short work of DPS glass cannons. Esoecially if you're goin solo with a companion.

I used Hardened Ward on my MagSorc and can say with a high degree of certainty that this advice doesn't hold up. I can block cast Hardened Ward and still get clapped by Gothmau. If ZOS insists on having Gothmau be overtuned, then they could at least make the melee range consistent, and make roll dodge work reliably when trying to avoid damage. All things considered, and in comparison to the other two original marauders, Gothmau just feels like someone fat-fingered the attack values during implementation.

Necrotech_Master · August 22

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Yes, Gothmau is constantly ignoring my tank companion and only very occasionally decides to notice that he is being taunted. And that is with me on a HA build. So, no one can say that I'm not directing Bastian towards Gothmau.

This Gothmau's behavior is very different from the reaction to a taunt from a companion of the other marauders. So, is this a bug of some sort?

the bug what i can tell is the companions do not aggro on him at all, or its like they cant, they occasionally tap him but frequently just stand around looking like they dont know what to do

it doesnt seem to matter if your companion is melee or ranged, they cant seem to aggro properly on gothmau

I did not notice Bastian standing and doing nothing. He actually actively trying to hit Gothmau. But with me constantly kiting I guess it's too much of a task for him. But he manages just fine with other Marauders (actually, can't say anything about WW one since I did not get a chance to see him yet). But OCCASIONALLY Bastian manages to keep Gothmau's attention. So, it's working at least sometimes.

if they have ranged they seem to do a little better, but their aggro is still all sorts of messed up with gothmau lol

ESO_player123 · August 22

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

The thing I hate most about Gothmau: Isobel's aggro resets constantly during the fight.

STOP PUTTING YOUR WEAPON UP AND RUNNING TO ME! WE ARE STILL FIGHTING!

My companion won't even aggro him. Like they cast the skill and he just ignores it most of the time. Incredibly annoying.

ZOS_Kevin

Is that intended behavior with companion aggro?

Yes, Gothmau is constantly ignoring my tank companion and only very occasionally decides to notice that he is being taunted. And that is with me on a HA build. So, no one can say that I'm not directing Bastian towards Gothmau.

This Gothmau's behavior is very different from the reaction to a taunt from a companion of the other marauders. So, is this a bug of some sort?

the bug what i can tell is the companions do not aggro on him at all, or its like they cant, they occasionally tap him but frequently just stand around looking like they dont know what to do

it doesnt seem to matter if your companion is melee or ranged, they cant seem to aggro properly on gothmau

I did not notice Bastian standing and doing nothing. He actually actively trying to hit Gothmau. But with me constantly kiting I guess it's too much of a task for him. But he manages just fine with other Marauders (actually, can't say anything about WW one since I did not get a chance to see him yet). But OCCASIONALLY Bastian manages to keep Gothmau's attention. So, it's working at least sometimes.

if they have ranged they seem to do a little better, but their aggro is still all sorts of messed up with gothmau lol

No doubt about that. The question is if it's intentional, and, if not, will ZOS do anything about it.

Solariken · August 23

It used to be easier to kite these big boys, but i feel like they sped up the marauders... especially the minotaur who runs at speed cap. If you're not a tank or a Sorc with Streak spam they will slap you into the dirt.

LatentBuzzard · August 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

Example: After complainers complained, in Lucent Citadel you now get a portal once one member gets to the top of the "going up" section. So the Devs create a FUN UNIQUE MECHANIC and days later it's nerfed.

(a) It has been months, not days
(b) How exactly has adding a portal nerfed the wisp mechanic ? Are you forced to use the portal ? No you're not. Can you still use the wisp mechanic even if the portal is there ? Yes you can. So nothing has been taken away from you, an option has simply been given to others. So how exactly is that a nerf ?

Sarannah · August 23

Have experienced both new marauders today. The werewolf was fun and fine, but the minotaur even 4-hits my tank(51k hp, max resists, 1h+shield, and damage shield). He's even stronger than gothmau.

Gothmau and the minotaur need some serious tuning down. Especially when solo and solo + companion.

PS: Have reported this before, but there is a bug with Gothmau where companions simply ignore him. Like you aren't in combat at all, and the companion just follows you, instead of engaging Gothmau.

Kainarel · August 23

Sarannah wrote: »

Have experienced both new marauders today. The werewolf was fun and fine, but the minotaur even 4-hits my tank(51k hp, max resists, 1h+shield, and damage shield). He's even stronger than gothmau.

Gothmau and the minotaur need some serious tuning down. Especially when solo and solo + companion.

PS: Have reported this before, but there is a bug with Gothmau where companions simply ignore him. Like you aren't in combat at all, and the companion just follows you, instead of engaging Gothmau.

I never saw my companion ignore Gothmau, so it's strange to hear it. I usually run IA with Ember on her DD build, she never ignored any enemy, including Gothmau. He's a tough cookie, no doubt, but the Bull is really beyond that for me. His speed is enormous, his hits are coming too fast and too hard, and it's literally a race instead of a fight when he comes.

I don't have any special build, I just run as usual on my mag sorc (no pets) with Ember or a friend. I met the Bull twice so far (haven't seen the wolf yet), both times Arc 2 because it was just casual run for dailies thing; one run with a friend where he destroyed me with some club attack when I had him down to 20% or so. He totally ignored my friend the entire time, dead focused on me. Another run was with Ember and it was a crazy race, but I managed to kill him. My hands were cramping, and overall it was a stress rather than a fun gameplay. So yeah, maybe it would be nice to tune him down a bit.

spartaxoxo · August 23

My tank companion isn't ignoring Gothmau, Gothmau is ignoring him. He's not the only boss that ignores companion taunt but the other isn't in IA and I can't think of which it is atm. Companion Taunt is buggy.

malistorr · August 23

Yeah makes no sense to me if content is the same difficulty for solo vs. duo. In a 4-person dungeon that's 1-thing. If you choose to go there alone you'll expect a tough fight. But for IA which is designed to be done solo or with 1 other person, not having the difficulty adjust based on who is there to fight doesn't make sense to me. If you have a marauder that usually kills both people then tone him down a lot if just 1-person is there.

cyclonus11 · August 23

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My tank companion isn't ignoring Gothmau, Gothmau is ignoring him. He's not the only boss that ignores companion taunt but the other isn't in IA and I can't think of which it is atm. Companion Taunt is buggy.

For me, it's my tank companion who puts her weapons away constantly as if the fight's over, causing Gothmau to shift aggro to me.