Tanks and healers in non-trial PVE

Devdarsh

Hello guys,
I would like to ask about current state of tanks and healers in dungeons. After few months of playing I noticed that most of my pug runs are done with fake tank or fake healer. Does healing make sense today? I never tried trials due to fact I hate weaving with passion. I tried parse my arcanist on dummy and I believe 40k DPS I a shame.
To be fair I did DK tank and after 3 low level dungeons I don't feel that I can say I enjoyed tanking, but this may be due to speedruners met there.

Propably my topic has a little sense but no compaints here - I just want to start play PVE in ESO. I really enjoy solo part of game and whole Elder Scroll lore.

Pevey

There is no point in learning to tank in a normal dungeon. A dps with proper food who knows how to block can take the damage. Start learning to tank in the easier vets, and then quickly move to dlc non-hm. This is much better training.

Same with healing. In normal dungeons, healers ideally split time doing dps with a few heals/buffs. The percentage of time spent healing goes up with the difficulty of the content. Healers are also often designated to do certain mechs, like orb duty in graven deep. So it’s important to know the content well.

tincanman

Normal, non-dlc dungeons not really needed. Normal dlc dungeons they can be handy but knowledge of mechanics arguably more useful. From what i understand of random normal dungeons with 4-solo players queueing (I don't do this) fake roles & speed-running seems to be the current default.

Vet dungeons, base game not problematic without support roles, particularly after zos boosted base health but tank is always handy, alas healer not so much. Vet dlc dungeons, both roles welcome but with 1-shot mechanics healers are kind of marginalised.

Sometimes back-fill groups for vet dungeons and usually expect role to be fulfilled which, to be fair, on the few occasions we've looked for support roles(s), it has been or been reasonably attempted. When it's not, a swift click on the "Dear Sir/Madam, thank you for your interest in the position but we regret to inform you that your application on this occasion has not been successful. We wish you every success in your future adventures" menu option usually fixes that.

TLDR: normal dungeons, generally do what you want, I suppose. Vet dungeons all roles still welcome if not always strictly necessary.

Devdarsh

Pevey wrote: »

There is no point in learning to tank in a normal dungeon. A dps with proper food who knows how to block can take the damage. Start learning to tank in the easier vets, and then quickly move to dlc non-hm. This is much better training.

Same with healing. In normal dungeons, healers ideally split time doing dps with a few heals/buffs. The percentage of time spent healing goes up with the difficulty of the content. Healers are also often designated to do certain mechs, like orb duty in graven deep. So it’s important to know the content well.

How about stress? I spent 12y playing World of Warcraft and i find healing and tanking M+ stressful, but ejoyable somehow.

Pevey

Devdarsh wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

There is no point in learning to tank in a normal dungeon. A dps with proper food who knows how to block can take the damage. Start learning to tank in the easier vets, and then quickly move to dlc non-hm. This is much better training.

Same with healing. In normal dungeons, healers ideally split time doing dps with a few heals/buffs. The percentage of time spent healing goes up with the difficulty of the content. Healers are also often designated to do certain mechs, like orb duty in graven deep. So it’s important to know the content well.

How about stress? I spent 12y playing World of Warcraft and i find healing and tanking M+ stressful, but ejoyable somehow.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B5gTEsQippE

OsUfi

User experience may vary and all that. I use a high health necro build, easily adaptable for PvP and PvP. I usually have 50kish health, and with Sergents Mail, in all heavy armour, I can pull 50-60k dps trial dummy with a taunt slotted. 40kish solo.

I got sick of fake tanks dying in normal mode dungeons, started running as a tank myself with Silver Leash slotted. All normal mode base and DLC, and base game vet, I can face tank everything with a lightning staff, hungry scythe, and spirit guardian. My health barely moves. I can also happily face tank all world bosses.

I vet DLCs, eh, really depends on which one I get. Old ones especially, like Prison and White Gold Tower, yeah, even in vet mode you can face tank everything. Coral Aerie, you gotta start learning mechs.

My guild recently started doing normal trials. I find the same there. I'm able to face tank everything in the older trials. I keep switching to sword and board or ice staff when we're doing one I don't know, and it feels completely unnecessary.

All that said, the more time I do it, the more I learn, and on the odd occasions I do a vet dungeon, I am deffo more prepared.

I guess running as a heavy armour DPS with a taunt taught me to tank in vet stuff?

And with all that, if i do an RND, I want someone tanking with a darned taunt that doesn't run in circles and drop dead in vet fungal 1. Heck, I had one once die in Wayrest 1 normal!

Pevey

To be clear, I’m not recommending or condoning fake tanks in normal dungeon. I think a hybrid approach like above (tanky dps with a taunt) is the best approach. For learning to be a pure tank, with the goal of growing and tanking the hardest 4-person content, it just doesn’t make sense to try to tank normals.

Orbital78

Solo arenas and the archive will teach you the basics of survival. Then start adjusting the build towards the content difficulties. Scribing has some nice skills to fill in gaps in the build. Sadly the AOE pull range seems underwhelming.

Devdarsh

Noted, thank your for replies. I'll think about tanking some more.

alpha_synuclein

When it comes to healing it will depend on your group. Experienced players will need a healer only in the hardest DLC HMs. Less experienced will need one in most vet DLC dungeons.
And, overall, playing support in pugs can be challenging, so I would strongly recommend finding a guild and go with the preferences of the players in it

CalamityCat

As a healer I have a few offensive skills if the group needs less support, but I rarely find heals are unnecessary. Especially if a fake tank situation occurs in a more challenging dungeon. I'm sturdy enough to stand near bosses and heal more vigorously, so they can focus more on hitting the boss instead of running round like headless chickens. I like to think that healing makes the experience more relaxing when players know they're supported

I find it useful to carry both my healing and DPS gear with me, then I can use an add-on to swap gear, skills and CP should the group need something different.

Sluggy

Unpopular opinion I know, but have you considered PvP? There will never be a time where support roles and builds that focus on survival won't be needed and if you can survive there you can survive anywhere. Learn to tank fifteen people that can think and adapt and there's nothing you can't deal with in PvE once you know the mechs.

Devdarsh

Sluggy wrote: »

Unpopular opinion I know, but have you considered PvP? There will never be a time where support roles and builds that focus on survival won't be needed and if you can survive there you can survive anywhere. Learn to tank fifteen people that can think and adapt and there's nothing you can't deal with in PvE once you know the mechs.

I do BGs on daily basis, but never tried Cyro or Imperial City.
It seems to be fair point and I will try to find pvp guild.

BXR_Lonestar

Honestly, true tanking and healing is only needed in the hardest content. I've even done vet DLC dungeons with 3 DPS 1 tank, but some hardmodes are best done with a tank, healer, and 2 DPS - usually because the tank needs some additional sustain support that they won't get from a 3 dps setup.

Sad to say, but DPS is so high right now that the benefits of carrying an extra DPS player outweigh the benefits of carrying a dedicated healer most times. I've found, though, that truly good healers can really have an impact in PVP, which is where I find myself playing my healers the most.

Stafford197

It’s far too late now, but I believe the entire concept of a DPS, Healer, and Tank was not a great fit for this game. Elder Scrolls games were never meant to be played that way.

It would’ve been SO MUCH MORE FUN to have been balanced the same as Destiny 2. In other words, everyone is a “DPS”, but there are tons of group-supporting options to make use of on your character. This would also completely remove the source of fake dungeon finder roles and oneshots/heal checks in content (aka forcing support roles).

Soarora

Your problem is that you’re doing normal dungeons. Vet dungeons rarely have the fake role issue and when there is a fake role, it is a massive problem. If you really want to learn content, start with vet nondlc and slowly go up in release order, typically newer dlcs are harder than older ones. If its your first time in that dungeon, say so at the beginning. Sometimes people will explain mechanics. Sometimes people will leave, but you’ll get there.
Healers are the most unnecessary role but do have their place, so no harm in trying it out if you might like it. Even if you don’t like it, knowing every role helps you be better at any role (ex. A tank knowing to turn the boss because DPS want to flank the boss and keep the boss still for DPS damage aoes and healer healing aoes).

What is your arcanist build like? Arcanists don’t need to weave very often, just a light attack on occasion to build ult is fine. Velothi’s amulet and deadly strike are good to have. If you don’t do trials at all and just want to do dungeons maybe use a penetration set with it. Usually ansuul or coral riptide is run with deadly or azureblight, but ansuul and coral are from trials. Azureblight won’t really proc in dungeons except on bosses because things die too fast.

katanagirl1

While tanks might not be required in normal dungeons, I always appreciate the tank holding aggro so the boss is not running constantly and my dots useless for dps. It’s just more enjoyable that way.

mdjessup4906

Imo tank is more mindset than strictly build. Tank is whoever is stacking adds and controlling the boss. Easiest content you can do that on a dps with a taunt. The harder the content the more specialized you get, right up to fully kitted out trial tank doing 3k damage on a good day.

Same for Healers. Easy stuff a dps with a group heal is fine. Even in a normal trial 11 dps running vigor can clear if they know what they're doing, but having dedicated ones is still nice.

You should absolutely do normal trials BTW. Theyre way less scary than they sound. 40k on arc is super low but still good enough for normal.

notyuu

Normal dungeons are were you find the fake roles due to them being so easy that you can do them while tabbed out or watching a movie, vet dungeons are where the supporting roles are real due to the fact that if people try to fake in there they very quickly get squashed by the sheer mechanic pressure