ESO base game should be free to play permanently

Soarora

We’ve seen what happens. The Epic free game led to people making accounts to make their own guild storage for free and an increase in bots. The gold selling bots are obvious, but just because you don’t see the other ones doesn’t mean they’re not there.

Elsonso

Twohothardware wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

No. If it's not gold mats, the bots will move on to farming alchemy materials.
Also, the gold selling spam will fill the chat form top to bottom (I played a game where the FTP servers were plagued by this).
Besides, as it was pointed above, the cost of the base game is very cheap.

I've never seen a single bot in the years I've played this game farming alchemy materials on Playstation or Xbox.

Free to play games pull in a much wider audience of players than games that simply have a low cost for the game. The average person is far more likely to download a free game they see in the Store than they are to spend $5 to see if they like it or hate it.

Interestingly, there have been times on PC, XBox, and Playstation where it is harder to find a player than it is a bot.

Most recently, on XBox in the starting zones. By recently, I mean this month. August, actually.

Free to play would definitely be an incentive for the botters working for gold sellers. All those new players with no gold and no mats that are eager and hungry for the services they provide. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel of water.

Ph1p

Soarora wrote: »

We’ve seen what happens. The Epic free game led to people making accounts to make their own guild storage for free and an increase in bots. The gold selling bots are obvious, but just because you don’t see the other ones doesn’t mean they’re not there.

Agreed. ESO should follow what actual F2P MMOs do with free accounts, like disallowing writing in zone chats to avoid spamming and restricting their ability to trade or transfer items to combat botting.

Danikat

I agree it would be a bad idea to make the base game as it is now free, but maybe they could do it like some other games do where the free version has a ton of restrictions that both make them impractical to botters or farmers and also incentivise genuine players to get a paid copy. Restrictions could include:

• Can't use zone chat
• Can't access guild traders
• Can't mail items or gold to other accounts
• No gifting crown store items (which is already restricted for a lot of paid accounts)

Maybe some restrictions on PvP as well. I don't think it'd be a good idea to ban free accounts from Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds entirely because that would defeat the point of letting people try the game in their own time before buying, but maybe some restrictions on what they can do and what they get from it.

It would probably take a lot of planning, developing some new systems to restrict what accounts can do and probably some trial and error to get it right, which means there would be a cost for ZOS, so I don't think they should do it unless they're willing and able to take the time to do it well. But I don't think the problems free accounts can cause are unavoidable. (Admittedly I wouldn't have said that if I hadn't seen other games find ways to manage it, the first time an MMO I played added a free version I was very sceptical.)

Gamerscape2007

MachineGod wrote: »

So this imaginary impact would be far less than made out here because there effectively already is no barrier for this particular group.

You're expecting too much from the community here who enjoys being nickled and dimed at every opportunity.

sarahthes

LaintalAy wrote: »

It's heart warming to know that so many fellow players have deep personal experience with the bot problem and are looking out for my interests.

Bots!

Certainly I've intersected with the gold selling problem this game seems to have in cycles, and that is directly tied to botting, even on PC. When Epic had ESO for free, the amount of RMT gold selling spam in zone chat increased dramatically.

Also, the Epic free ESO seems to have directly correlated to the fraudulent crown selling and gifting that caused gifting to get shut down for months.

Danikat

The other problem, as illustrated here, is overcoming the perception of what a free-to-play game is. ESO has an advantage there because it's 10 years old and a lot of people will be aware of it already, but most of those people will also likely have made up their mind whether or not they want to play it. So it would be mainly people who aren't already aware of it they're trying to promote this to.

They'd need to think carefully about how they promote it to make it clear that this isn't a "freemium" game where you're told you can play for free and then have to keep on paying out to unlock basic functions. If they add restrictions to free accounts (as I mentioned above) they should make it clear that buying the game is a one-time purchase and removes all of those restrictions and then the only additional purchases are DLC (including chapters, which are basically DLC), optional cosmetic and convenience items and an optional subscription.

The fact that there's so many different optional extras (and some players will loudly and repeatedly tell you they aren't optional) will make that more difficult, but I still think there's an important difference between buying things like DLC or different mounts and games where you either accept absurd limitations on what you can do or keep paying out for every little thing you want to be allowed to access.

Twohothardware

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

No. If it's not gold mats, the bots will move on to farming alchemy materials.
Also, the gold selling spam will fill the chat form top to bottom (I played a game where the FTP servers were plagued by this).
Besides, as it was pointed above, the cost of the base game is very cheap.

I've never seen a single bot in the years I've played this game farming alchemy materials on Playstation or Xbox.

Free to play games pull in a much wider audience of players than games that simply have a low cost for the game. The average person is far more likely to download a free game they see in the Store than they are to spend $5 to see if they like it or hate it.

Go to the starter Islands and you'll see bots.

Those bots are not farming alchemy ingredients is what I was pointing out. Every bot I've ever seen on the starter islands on console run a strict path to collect only ore/jewelry nodes to refine for gold mats. And this could be eliminated from the game by making it so that the drop chance for gold mats only comes from high level materials.

Twohothardware

You guys grossly overestimate the amount of botting that takes place on this game. It's literally the same couple of people running a handful of bots on the regular or spamming zone chat to sell gold. It's not some vast network because the profitability for making real money on this game is incredibly low at this stage of the games life and with the player counts.

The only way the amount of bots/trade scammers/gold sellers would explode on this game is if the popularity of ESO also exploded. And I for one would welcome a large influx of new players even if it meant the need to police a few more bots and gold sellers because there is numerous other ways Zenimax could deal with them.

Also, the game is free to play on all platforms for the next two weeks. The game should be inundated with bots, hackers, and scammers based on some of these comments but it won't be because of the lack of popularity and profitability. Those are the two things keeping botting low, not the $5 price for a game key.

Stafford197

Twohothardware wrote: »

You guys grossly overestimate the amount of botting that takes place on this game. It's literally the same couple of people running a handful of bots on the regular or spamming zone chat to sell gold. It's not some vast network because the profitability for making real money on this game is incredibly low at this stage of the games life and with the player counts.

The only way the amount of bots/trade scammers/gold sellers would explode on this game is if the popularity of ESO also exploded. And I for one would welcome a large influx of new players even if it meant the need to police a few more bots and gold sellers because there is numerous other ways Zenimax could deal with them.

Also, the game is free to play on all platforms for the next two weeks. The game should be inundated with bots, hackers, and scammers based on some of these comments but it won't be because of the lack of popularity and profitability. Those are the two things keeping botting low, not the $5 price for a game key.

A “large influx of new players” is not happening for a decade old game like this.

And bots have totally overtaken starter zones as well as certain areas of other base game zones. They are permanently farming. You think players are overestimating the problem? lol.

zaria

EdjeSwift wrote: »

I'm firmly in the no free to play. Having a low barrier of entry price is worth it because even if bots and toxic players exist, it's a barrier to ensure we don't become overwhelmed with them.

Also, ESO, in my opinion, is not at the point where it needs to go F2P.

I agree, going FTP has one upside: more players but these free players will take up server resources, and as you say you get more bots, scammers and toxic players.

Now at some point going F2P makes sense

Stafford197

zaria wrote: »

EdjeSwift wrote: »

I'm firmly in the no free to play. Having a low barrier of entry price is worth it because even if bots and toxic players exist, it's a barrier to ensure we don't become overwhelmed with them.

Also, ESO, in my opinion, is not at the point where it needs to go F2P.

I agree, going FTP has one upside: more players but these free players will take up server resources, and as you say you get more bots, scammers and toxic players.

Now at some point going F2P makes sense

^^^

Exactly, the game is just not ready to be F2P yet. If it continues on this downward trend all throughout 2024, and it even persists throughout 2025, then this conversation will be a serious consideration.

But there’s still time to turn things around. The 2025 chapter needs to be a massive improvement though.

Casdha

The only way I would support any version of this game going Free to Play is that if they went back to the way it worked in Beta weekend days for the free players. What I mean by that is you get starting islands only and no Wayshrine access and 1st tear crafting only and a level cap of 15. The only difference would be that you had choice of faction starting islands and not just Bleakrock

Edit: to make things fair with Khenarthi's I would allow the first two zones for the non AD factions (total of 6 soul shards each), also edited a mistake
Edit 2 : I forgot no guild bank/trader access either

Twohothardware

Stafford197 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

You guys grossly overestimate the amount of botting that takes place on this game. It's literally the same couple of people running a handful of bots on the regular or spamming zone chat to sell gold. It's not some vast network because the profitability for making real money on this game is incredibly low at this stage of the games life and with the player counts.

The only way the amount of bots/trade scammers/gold sellers would explode on this game is if the popularity of ESO also exploded. And I for one would welcome a large influx of new players even if it meant the need to police a few more bots and gold sellers because there is numerous other ways Zenimax could deal with them.

Also, the game is free to play on all platforms for the next two weeks. The game should be inundated with bots, hackers, and scammers based on some of these comments but it won't be because of the lack of popularity and profitability. Those are the two things keeping botting low, not the $5 price for a game key.

A “large influx of new players” is not happening for a decade old game like this.

Final Fantasy XIV Online is the most popular MMO, it's just as old as ESO, it's free to play, and on Steam in June 2024 it hit near it's all time peak high player count.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

Elsonso

Twohothardware wrote: »

You guys grossly overestimate the amount of botting that takes place on this game. It's literally the same couple of people running a handful of bots on the regular or spamming zone chat to sell gold. It's not some vast network because the profitability for making real money on this game is incredibly low at this stage of the games life and with the player counts.

Honestly, it does not matter to me if it is 2 people running 50 bots each or 50 people running 2 bots each.

Stafford197

Twohothardware wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

You guys grossly overestimate the amount of botting that takes place on this game. It's literally the same couple of people running a handful of bots on the regular or spamming zone chat to sell gold. It's not some vast network because the profitability for making real money on this game is incredibly low at this stage of the games life and with the player counts.

The only way the amount of bots/trade scammers/gold sellers would explode on this game is if the popularity of ESO also exploded. And I for one would welcome a large influx of new players even if it meant the need to police a few more bots and gold sellers because there is numerous other ways Zenimax could deal with them.

Also, the game is free to play on all platforms for the next two weeks. The game should be inundated with bots, hackers, and scammers based on some of these comments but it won't be because of the lack of popularity and profitability. Those are the two things keeping botting low, not the $5 price for a game key.

A “large influx of new players” is not happening for a decade old game like this.

Final Fantasy XIV Online is the most popular MMO, it's just as old as ESO, it's free to play, and on Steam in June 2024 it hit near it's all time peak high player count.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

You’re correct, that’s why I said a game “like this” in regards to ESO.

Final Fantasy is well maintained and survives because the development team does a solid job.

ESO is only alive thanks to the franchise name and has been very poorly maintained. It’s in a terrible state and the new player experience in 2024 is as horrible as it gets. Completely nonsensical timeline/story order, full of “spend money here” popups/advertisements everywhere, and even the zone chats are flooded with gold selling messages and the starter zones flooded by bots.

So yes, ESO is not capable of any influxes of new players. The only exception to this is if ESO has a hugely hyped expansion launch one day. A 10 year anniversary super chapter was their best chance to make this happen btw.

EdjeSwift

Twohothardware wrote: »

Final Fantasy XIV Online is the most popular MMO, it's just as old as ESO, it's free to play, and on Steam in June 2024 it hit near it's all time peak high player count.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

Except it's not. They have a free trial but it is absolutely not free to play. If you have an account that doesn't qualify for the trial you cannot play without a subscription.

This is the chart for their free version.

https://steamcharts.com/app/312060

You linked the live version which still requires a monthly subscription and also had pre-expansion hype and streamers promoting it in June.

Desiato

I don't think a permanent F2P version would bring in many new players vs occasional promotions.

Also, full F2P games are a lot more annoying in terms of monetization efforts. Part of the reason is they have to be due to the fact that the abundance of completely unpaid users increases overhead. So they increase the pressure to purchase from the in-game store.

Twohothardware

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Final Fantasy XIV Online is the most popular MMO, it's just as old as ESO, it's free to play, and on Steam in June 2024 it hit near it's all time peak high player count.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

Except it's not. They have a free trial but it is absolutely not free to play. If you have an account that doesn't qualify for the trial you cannot play without a subscription.

This is the chart for their free version.

https://steamcharts.com/app/312060

You linked the live version which still requires a monthly subscription and also had pre-expansion hype and streamers promoting it in June.

Final Fantasy Online is free to play up to level 70 with no time restrictions.

https://freetrial.finalfantasyxiv.com/na/

You’re not running any recent trials or going to any recent zones on ESO either without paying for a subscription or buying DLC. You’re also at a major disadvantage in terms of gear with only the base game.

A free to play model gives the player enough of the game to get them hooked and that’s what ESO needs right now when this past month the game has hit the lowest player count since 2018.

EdjeSwift

Twohothardware wrote: »

<snipped to not advertrise another MMO on these forums>

A free to play model gives the player enough of the game to get them hooked and that’s what ESO needs right now when this past month the game has hit the lowest player count since 2018.

Firstly, Advertising a different game on another game's forums is poor form.

Secondly, that trial does not provide you with full access to their base game, it's a trial version with heavy restrictions, so the game is absolutely not free to play.

spartaxoxo

Twohothardware wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

No. If it's not gold mats, the bots will move on to farming alchemy materials.
Also, the gold selling spam will fill the chat form top to bottom (I played a game where the FTP servers were plagued by this).
Besides, as it was pointed above, the cost of the base game is very cheap.

I've never seen a single bot in the years I've played this game farming alchemy materials on Playstation or Xbox.

Free to play games pull in a much wider audience of players than games that simply have a low cost for the game. The average person is far more likely to download a free game they see in the Store than they are to spend $5 to see if they like it or hate it.

Go to the starter Islands and you'll see bots.

Those bots are not farming alchemy ingredients is what I was pointing out. Every bot I've ever seen on the starter islands on console run a strict path to collect only ore/jewelry nodes to refine for gold mats. And this could be eliminated from the game by making it so that the drop chance for gold mats only comes from high level materials.

Yeah, because it's the best value. If that happened, they'd just shift to the new thing.

spartaxoxo

Twohothardware wrote: »

A free to play model gives the player enough of the game to get them hooked and that’s what ESO needs right now when this past month the game has hit the lowest player count since 2018.

This is not knowable. The only reliable reference we have player count is Steam Charts, which is a tiny fraction of the playerbase. And that charts show a lower count in September of 2023. We have roughly the same amount of people as we did fall of last year.

Twohothardware

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

A free to play model gives the player enough of the game to get them hooked and that’s what ESO needs right now when this past month the game has hit the lowest player count since 2018.

This is not knowable. The only reliable reference we have player count is Steam Charts, which is a tiny fraction of the playerbase. And that charts show a lower count in September of 2023. We have roughly the same amount of people as we did fall of last year.

It's a window to the player base as a whole. Regardless of which platform you play on if you're active you can tell player numbers are down compared to years past. One of the top discussion right now is how much the ESO in-game economy has fallen off and a good part of that is the drop in total player counts.

Steam charts show a consistent dropping year over year.

July 2024 19,349 peak players
July 2023 24,231 peak players
July 2022 27,980 peak players
July 2021 39,789 peak players

ESO needs a change in direction in terms of DLC and it needs a way to introduce that content to more new players.

LaintalAy

edited

Elsonso

Twohothardware wrote: »

July 2024 19,349 peak players
July 2023 24,231 peak players
July 2022 27,980 peak players
July 2021 39,789 31,391 peak players

To avoid the appearance of cherry picking the numbers, let's broaden this and show both sides of the pandemic.

July 2024 19,349 peak players
July 2023 24,231 peak players
July 2022 27,980 peak players
July 2021 31,391 peak players
July 2020 34,962 peak players
July 2019 24,568 peak players
July 2018 23,384 peak players
July 2017 14,351 peak players



Edit: missed 2020

spartaxoxo

Twohothardware wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

A free to play model gives the player enough of the game to get them hooked and that’s what ESO needs right now when this past month the game has hit the lowest player count since 2018.

This is not knowable. The only reliable reference we have player count is Steam Charts, which is a tiny fraction of the playerbase. And that charts show a lower count in September of 2023. We have roughly the same amount of people as we did fall of last year.

It's a window to the player base as a whole. Regardless of which platform you play on if you're active you can tell player numbers are down compared to years past. One of the top discussion right now is how much the ESO in-game economy has fallen off and a good part of that is the drop in total player counts.

Steam charts show a consistent dropping year over year.

July 2024 19,349 peak players
July 2023 24,231 peak players
July 2022 27,980 peak players
July 2021 39,789 peak players

ESO needs a change in direction in terms of DLC and it needs a way to introduce that content to more new players.

You can tell that ESO is trending downwards, but you cannot say that it has less overall players than X month. Steam is a biased sample. It can tell you trends. It cannot tell your the player count of the

Also 2020-2022 is pandemic inflation. That was a captive audience that has since left.

Blood_again

Twohothardware wrote: »

Steam charts show a consistent dropping year over year.

July 2024 19,349 peak players
July 2023 24,231 peak players
July 2022 27,980 peak players
July 2021 39,789 peak players

Every time I see the topic about "ESO online is dropping", and every time stats are beginning from COVID period. Biased take, sorry.
Please try to change the time period to something more relevant and you'll see the difference.

Twohothardware

Blood_again wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Steam charts show a consistent dropping year over year.

July 2024 19,349 peak players
July 2023 24,231 peak players
July 2022 27,980 peak players
July 2021 39,789 peak players

Every time I see the topic about "ESO online is dropping", and every time stats are beginning from COVID period. Biased take, sorry.
Please try to change the time period to something more relevant and you'll see the difference.

You can't go much further back on Steam because early on it wasn't as popular through Steam and still isn't compared to the store version.

LaintalAy

edited

Tandor

Twohothardware wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

You guys grossly overestimate the amount of botting that takes place on this game. It's literally the same couple of people running a handful of bots on the regular or spamming zone chat to sell gold. It's not some vast network because the profitability for making real money on this game is incredibly low at this stage of the games life and with the player counts.

The only way the amount of bots/trade scammers/gold sellers would explode on this game is if the popularity of ESO also exploded. And I for one would welcome a large influx of new players even if it meant the need to police a few more bots and gold sellers because there is numerous other ways Zenimax could deal with them.

Also, the game is free to play on all platforms for the next two weeks. The game should be inundated with bots, hackers, and scammers based on some of these comments but it won't be because of the lack of popularity and profitability. Those are the two things keeping botting low, not the $5 price for a game key.

A “large influx of new players” is not happening for a decade old game like this.

Final Fantasy XIV Online is the most popular MMO, it's just as old as ESO, it's free to play, and on Steam in June 2024 it hit near it's all time peak high player count.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

It's also a game that I've returned to from time to time and each time I've logged in I've been instantly swamped with approaches from gold sellers, and I've logged straight out again. I don't want that in ESO.