Charm breaks the game in multiple ways and needs to be removed.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 31

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

Bradyfjord · July 31

I didn't know about this. If it's happening, then I hope that they can get to work on it soon.

Theist_VII · July 31

Sounds more like a mapping issue rather than an ability one. If the same problems keep happening every time a new type of movement ability is introduced; it’s about time that the root problem is addressed.

As far as old Fear is considered, I would love to see a reintroduction of Fear’s ability to control movement, and I would love to see more cases of both old Fear and new Charm.

There are entire playstyles and group synergies that are only possible when you can make your opponent walk into traps.

ForumSavant · July 31

ZOS tries too hard to reintroduce stuff just to keep the game "fresh" without addressing a whole litany of issues that still persist. I don't know why in the world they would introduce not only new content, but completely new mechanics if they have issues with skills and interactions that have been in the game for years. Charm is extremely buggy and just reminds me of people getting meteored into the ceiling. I have never seen as many people stuck in stairs as I have in the last month.

I've said it a thousand times and I will continue to say it, the best patch in ESO was when they decided to go a few months without adding additional content and instead address issues that the game had. Performance at this time was astonishing compared to years prior, and most things worked properly.

IncultaWolf · July 31

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

It's mostly the warden charm that's extremely buggy. You cannot block it either.

Many years ago, fear use to actually make your character run away, but they removed that because like the issue you mentioned, it would cause your character to run into objects and get stuck.

RexyCat · August 1

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

If understand it correctly so what Charm does is force target to towards player that have put a "Charm" on Target.

In that case I do not understand how target can be forced into a wall if Charm need LoS to be able to force Targeted player to walk in that direction. Does Charm or any skill that can put Charm on Target also work through doors, walls etc?

I know that some teleport skill in general can have effect that player can get stuck in surfaces which shouldn't happen. So it sounds more like an issue related to how well defined surface for which player can or should be able to reach or stand on versus surface that shouldn't be accessed like inside of walls, doors or material that should seem solid for player.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 1

RexyCat wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

If understand it correctly so what Charm does is force target to towards player that have put a "Charm" on Target.

In that case I do not understand how target can be forced into a wall if Charm need LoS to be able to force Targeted player to walk in that direction. Does Charm or any skill that can put Charm on Target also work through doors, walls etc?

I know that some teleport skill in general can have effect that player can get stuck in surfaces which shouldn't happen. So it sounds more like an issue related to how well defined surface for which player can or should be able to reach or stand on versus surface that shouldn't be accessed like inside of walls, doors or material that should seem solid for player.

It's pretty straightforward - if you're at the edge of a where a wall juts out, the person charming you can charm, then sidestep so they are on the other side of the wall. Your character walks right into the corner and gets stuck in the terrain.

FriedEggSandwich · August 1

IncultaWolf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

It's mostly the warden charm that's extremely buggy. You cannot block it either.

Many years ago, fear use to actually make your character run away, but they removed that because like the issue you mentioned, it would cause your character to run into objects and get stuck.

Been out of the game for a while, first I'm hearing about fear being changed

I've never played a NB but always enjoyed fighting them. My only issue with fear was how long it took to break free from. It was one of their class defining skills though, and I never begrudged them having it. RIP fear. So what does the skill do now? Just make your char grab their head on the spot?

Just_Attivi · August 1

I remember back when i first started playing (i want to say 2018, but i was very casual at that point) I ran... I think it was crypt of hearts? maybe crypt of hearts 2. There was a boss ghost thing that would always fear me and get me to run into a rubble pile/bone pile on the side of the room and get stuck. I took a long break from the game, and when i came back, i remember tellign friends to 'stay away from the edges so you dont get stuck!' because It happened so often, only to find fear just made us cower in place a moment. a welcome change! In PVE id actually enjoy the mechanics of fear (or charms) moving us into peril, but theyd need to somehow make it not break the game every time it happens.

in PVP.... ive ended up inside tower walls/keep stairs/random piles of terrain more times than I can count in the past few days (i really stopped playing until MYM started, performance is awful). The charms that seemingly can force you into any terrain is.... REALLY problematic. nothing like having to queue out of a pop locked campaign because you cant /stuck since youre still in combat (often stuck in combat forever) nor use a recall... only to see a hour + queue time...

Charms need to function differently than they currently do, or they need to fix mapping/clipping into terrain, but my money is on them introducing a new color to your charm skill instead of either of these things. probably for only 1500 crowns!

ApoAlaia · August 1

I remember 'charm' fondly from FFXI; there was a boss in Dynamis that could mass charm and turn players against each other.

I wouldn't mind if that was what charm did in ESO. It would be fun to cast on parties in Cyro

Ngl, I would massively enjoy using it on time wasters that lead people into a LoS merry goose chase as well; see them turn tail and run into the great yonder looking for someone of their own alliance to attack.

Sluggy · August 1

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sounds more like a mapping issue rather than an ability one. If the same problems keep happening every time a new type of movement ability is introduced; it’s about time that the root problem is addressed.

As far as old Fear is considered, I would love to see a reintroduction of Fear’s ability to control movement, and I would love to see more cases of both old Fear and new Charm.

There are entire playstyles and group synergies that are only possible when you can make your opponent walk into traps.

Which is easier?
1) Fixing a broken skill whose effects was once removed from the game for exactly these reasons or
2) Fixing every single possible position in space that every player could ever be or

3) Skip it. Go count money.

divnyi · August 1

I've experienced breaking from charm and then getting stunned several times, resulting in 3+ second stun chain.
So not only it's bugged in that aspect, it's also clearly violates stun immunity.

Galeriano2 · August 1

IncultaWolf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

It's mostly the warden charm that's extremely buggy. You cannot block it either.

Many years ago, fear use to actually make your character run away, but they removed that because like the issue you mentioned, it would cause your character to run into objects and get stuck.

The other reason why that animation was removed was to help nightblades because at that point in time lot of meele abilities had 5 meters range so quite often feared enemy could run away from incap or executioner's range which was making that stun pretty much counterproductive.

Galeriano2 · August 1

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Charm is horrendously buggy. Not only does it prevent you from breaking free more often than other stuns, but players are now abusing it to force your character to walk into terrain and get stuck.

ZOS, I thought we went through this when the OG nightblade fear was removed for these same reasons. Charm needs to go, because forcing other players to clip into walls and get stuck is unacceptable.

It's mostly the warden charm that's extremely buggy. You cannot block it either.

Many years ago, fear use to actually make your character run away, but they removed that because like the issue you mentioned, it would cause your character to run into objects and get stuck.

Been out of the game for a while, first I'm hearing about fear being changed I've never played a NB but always enjoyed fighting them. My only issue with fear was how long it took to break free from. It was one of their class defining skills though, and I never begrudged them having it. RIP fear. So what does the skill do now? Just make your char grab their head on the spot?

Yes, now fear's stun animation is played like You described.

Urzigurumash · August 1

Definitely should be fixed before the Pink Moon Counterpart to Mass Hysteria appears

Theist_VII · August 1

Sluggy wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sounds more like a mapping issue rather than an ability one. If the same problems keep happening every time a new type of movement ability is introduced; it’s about time that the root problem is addressed.

As far as old Fear is considered, I would love to see a reintroduction of Fear’s ability to control movement, and I would love to see more cases of both old Fear and new Charm.

There are entire playstyles and group synergies that are only possible when you can make your opponent walk into traps.

Which is easier?
1) Fixing a broken skill whose effects was once removed from the game for exactly these reasons or
2) Fixing every single possible position in space that every player could ever be or

3) Skip it. Go count money.

Removing uniqueness from the game will always be easy. Know what else is easy? Deleting ESO.

Every time this game becomes less unique, and playstyles are introduced and then procedurally culled, people leave the game.

How many Templar and Necromancer mains do you know that still play? Now we’re trying to remove one of the only fun things left to Warden at a time they’re destroying another of their most iconic skills?

But sure, there are several MMOs that have been released this year and more are coming, I’m sure disenfranchised players will find a new home. 😁

Galeriano2 · August 1

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sounds more like a mapping issue rather than an ability one. If the same problems keep happening every time a new type of movement ability is introduced; it’s about time that the root problem is addressed.

As far as old Fear is considered, I would love to see a reintroduction of Fear’s ability to control movement, and I would love to see more cases of both old Fear and new Charm.

There are entire playstyles and group synergies that are only possible when you can make your opponent walk into traps.

Which is easier?
1) Fixing a broken skill whose effects was once removed from the game for exactly these reasons or
2) Fixing every single possible position in space that every player could ever be or

3) Skip it. Go count money.

Removing uniqueness from the game will always be easy. Know what else is easy? Deleting ESO.

Every time this game becomes less unique, and playstyles are introduced and then procedurally culled, people leave the game.

How many Templar and Necromancer mains do you know that still play? Now we’re trying to remove one of the only fun things left to Warden at a time they’re destroying another of their most iconic skills?

But sure, there are several MMOs that have been released this year and more are coming, I’m sure disenfranchised players will find a new home. 😁

Just because something is unique doesn't mean it should stay no matter how broken it is.

Theist_VII · August 1

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sounds more like a mapping issue rather than an ability one. If the same problems keep happening every time a new type of movement ability is introduced; it’s about time that the root problem is addressed.

As far as old Fear is considered, I would love to see a reintroduction of Fear’s ability to control movement, and I would love to see more cases of both old Fear and new Charm.

There are entire playstyles and group synergies that are only possible when you can make your opponent walk into traps.

Which is easier?
1) Fixing a broken skill whose effects was once removed from the game for exactly these reasons or
2) Fixing every single possible position in space that every player could ever be or

3) Skip it. Go count money.

Removing uniqueness from the game will always be easy. Know what else is easy? Deleting ESO.

Every time this game becomes less unique, and playstyles are introduced and then procedurally culled, people leave the game.

How many Templar and Necromancer mains do you know that still play? Now we’re trying to remove one of the only fun things left to Warden at a time they’re destroying another of their most iconic skills?

But sure, there are several MMOs that have been released this year and more are coming, I’m sure disenfranchised players will find a new home. 😁

Just because something is unique doesn't mean it should stay no matter how broken it is.

No one is advocating for broken things remaining broken. Instead the root problems should be addressed rather than cinching the things that make them unique in the first place.

ZOS managed to fix vertical collision with gap closers where they were sending people under the map, fixing horizontal player collision isn’t an impossibility.

Simply removing Charm from the game is not going to prevent future additions of unique movement altering abilities from experiencing the exact same issues.

Galeriano2 · August 1

Theist_VII wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sounds more like a mapping issue rather than an ability one. If the same problems keep happening every time a new type of movement ability is introduced; it’s about time that the root problem is addressed.

As far as old Fear is considered, I would love to see a reintroduction of Fear’s ability to control movement, and I would love to see more cases of both old Fear and new Charm.

There are entire playstyles and group synergies that are only possible when you can make your opponent walk into traps.

Which is easier?
1) Fixing a broken skill whose effects was once removed from the game for exactly these reasons or
2) Fixing every single possible position in space that every player could ever be or

3) Skip it. Go count money.

Removing uniqueness from the game will always be easy. Know what else is easy? Deleting ESO.

Every time this game becomes less unique, and playstyles are introduced and then procedurally culled, people leave the game.

How many Templar and Necromancer mains do you know that still play? Now we’re trying to remove one of the only fun things left to Warden at a time they’re destroying another of their most iconic skills?

But sure, there are several MMOs that have been released this year and more are coming, I’m sure disenfranchised players will find a new home. 😁

Just because something is unique doesn't mean it should stay no matter how broken it is.

No one is advocating for broken things remaining broken. Instead the root problems should be addressed rather than cinching the things that make them unique in the first place.

ZOS managed to fix vertical collision with gap closers where they were sending people under the map, fixing horizontal player collision isn’t an impossibility.

Simply removing Charm from the game is not going to prevent future additions of unique movement altering abilities from experiencing the exact same issues.

The main issue with charm ins't the collision though. It's the massive amount of bugs and desyncs it's causing.

Tandor · August 1

Just to be clear, is this only a PvP thing?

CameraBeardThePirate · August 1

Tandor wrote: »

Just to be clear, is this only a PvP thing?

Considering mobs can't charm you (yet), yes it's a PvP thing.

Tandor · August 1

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Just to be clear, is this only a PvP thing?

Considering mobs can't charm you (yet), yes it's a PvP thing.

That's what I assumed from the comments thus far, I was just puzzled as to how Charm was said to break the game in multiple ways, so thought I might be missing something.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 1

Tandor wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Just to be clear, is this only a PvP thing?

Considering mobs can't charm you (yet), yes it's a PvP thing.

That's what I assumed from the comments thus far, I was just puzzled as to how Charm was said to break the game in multiple ways, so thought I might be missing something.

Multiple ways as in:

Causes desync more often than other stuns.

Bugs out and doesn't allow the target to break free.

Exploitable by forcing the target to clip through terrain and get stuck.

Is 3 not considered "multiple" anymore?

Tandor · August 1

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Just to be clear, is this only a PvP thing?

Considering mobs can't charm you (yet), yes it's a PvP thing.

That's what I assumed from the comments thus far, I was just puzzled as to how Charm was said to break the game in multiple ways, so thought I might be missing something.

Multiple ways as in:

Causes desync more often than other stuns.

Bugs out and doesn't allow the target to break free.

Exploitable by forcing the target to clip through terrain and get stuck.

Is 3 not considered "multiple" anymore?

Of course, but as such it breaks PvP in multiple ways, not the game as a whole. That's all I was seeking clarification on.

Theist_VII · August 1

Is it a bug that prevents you from breaking the stun immediately or is it an intended part of the charm mechanic?

Perhaps some developer insight into how this effect is supposed to work would clear it up.

@ZOS_Kevin

Galeriano2 · August 2

Theist_VII wrote: »

Is it a bug that prevents you from breaking the stun immediately or is it an intended part of the charm mechanic?

Perhaps some developer insight into how this effect is supposed to work would clear it up.

@ZOS_Kevin

A mechanic that prevents You from breaking stun immidiately? Nice copium.

Sure man all the issues with that ability are intended design. The fact that it sometimes breaks normally and sometimes with a delay, the fact that often there is no animation or animation happens with a delay , the fact that there is often a delay on using anything afterwards all those things must be intended design and definietly not a bug.

Oh and regardless Your previous claims about warden's charm being unique it really isn't since there is already a mythic item in the game that charms the enemies and it was added almost 2 years ago.

So at the end of the day it's just a bugged feature that was already available for everyone, warden just got the easiest acces to it.

Theist_VII · August 2

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Is it a bug that prevents you from breaking the stun immediately or is it an intended part of the charm mechanic?

Perhaps some developer insight into how this effect is supposed to work would clear it up.

@ZOS_Kevin

A mechanic that prevents You from breaking stun immidiately? Nice copium.

Sure man all the issues with that ability are intended design. The fact that it sometimes breaks normally and sometimes with a delay, the fact that often there is no animation or animation happens with a delay , the fact that there is often a delay on using anything afterwards all those things must be intended design and definietly not a bug.

Oh and regardless Your previous claims about warden's charm being unique it really isn't since there is already a mythic item in the game that charms the enemies and it was added almost 2 years ago.

So at the end of the day it's just a bugged feature that was already available for everyone, warden just got the easiest acces to it.

Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after Take Flight? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after an Aurora Javelin? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after flame staff Clench?

How is it “copium” to presume that Charmed would function similar to Knockback when there is precedent?

Some abilities enable a free hit after a stun, Charm could very well have been designed with that function in mind.

Now you say it’s not unique because it’s sourced from a Mythic aswell, but you fail to see that you’re injecting your interpretation into the very definition of what unique is. Unique in regards to Charm, is a new type of combat stun that functions differently, irregardless of how it’s sourced.

Galeriano2 · August 2

Theist_VII wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Is it a bug that prevents you from breaking the stun immediately or is it an intended part of the charm mechanic?

Perhaps some developer insight into how this effect is supposed to work would clear it up.

@ZOS_Kevin

A mechanic that prevents You from breaking stun immidiately? Nice copium.

Sure man all the issues with that ability are intended design. The fact that it sometimes breaks normally and sometimes with a delay, the fact that often there is no animation or animation happens with a delay , the fact that there is often a delay on using anything afterwards all those things must be intended design and definietly not a bug.

Oh and regardless Your previous claims about warden's charm being unique it really isn't since there is already a mythic item in the game that charms the enemies and it was added almost 2 years ago.

So at the end of the day it's just a bugged feature that was already available for everyone, warden just got the easiest acces to it.

Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after Take Flight? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after an Aurora Javelin? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after flame staff Clench?

How is it “copium” to presume that Charmed would function similar to Knockback when there is precedent?

Some abilities enable a free hit after a stun, Charm could very well have been designed with that function in mind.

Now you say it’s not unique because it’s sourced from a Mythic aswell, but you fail to see that you’re injecting your interpretation into the very definition of what unique is. Unique in regards to Charm, is a new type of combat stun that functions differently, irregardless of how it’s sourced.

Yes, knockbacks (because all described by You abiliites are knockbacks) have a common issue of being desynced and bugged. It's not a guaranteed free hit after also, it's just a free hit when ability bugs out and causes a break free desync. ZoS even tried to fix this but failed.

This is why beliving that there could be a stun that by design can't be broken immidiately is a copium. When something like that happens it's awlays a bug or desync, Always.

It's hard to call something new when it existed for few years straight after launch then it was removed and then it came back two years ago just under different name.

Theist_VII · August 2

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Is it a bug that prevents you from breaking the stun immediately or is it an intended part of the charm mechanic?

Perhaps some developer insight into how this effect is supposed to work would clear it up.

@ZOS_Kevin

A mechanic that prevents You from breaking stun immidiately? Nice copium.

Sure man all the issues with that ability are intended design. The fact that it sometimes breaks normally and sometimes with a delay, the fact that often there is no animation or animation happens with a delay , the fact that there is often a delay on using anything afterwards all those things must be intended design and definietly not a bug.

Oh and regardless Your previous claims about warden's charm being unique it really isn't since there is already a mythic item in the game that charms the enemies and it was added almost 2 years ago.

So at the end of the day it's just a bugged feature that was already available for everyone, warden just got the easiest acces to it.

Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after Take Flight? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after an Aurora Javelin? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after flame staff Clench?

How is it “copium” to presume that Charmed would function similar to Knockback when there is precedent?

Some abilities enable a free hit after a stun, Charm could very well have been designed with that function in mind.

Now you say it’s not unique because it’s sourced from a Mythic aswell, but you fail to see that you’re injecting your interpretation into the very definition of what unique is. Unique in regards to Charm, is a new type of combat stun that functions differently, irregardless of how it’s sourced.

Yes, knockbacks (because all described by You abiliites are knockbacks) have a common issue of being desynced and bugged. It's not a guaranteed free hit after also, it's just a free hit when ability bugs out and causes a break free desync. ZoS even tried to fix this but failed.

This is why beliving that there could be a stun that by design can't be broken immidiately is a copium. When something like that happens it's awlays a bug or desync, Always.

It's hard to call something new when it existed for few years straight after launch then it was removed and then it came back two years ago just under different name.

Got the receipts?

Where does it say that the guaranteed hit from knockback isn’t intentional? Just because you say the game “should” play a certain way, does not mean it is the definitive logic to apply.

It is guaranteed that every time a Take Flight is unblocked, you will be whipped. Every. Time. That’s not a desync or a bug, and anyone who’s played Dragonknight for an hour or two would know that, if that’s a “bug” then how has it persisted since launch? If this was a “desynch” then one of two things would happen, you would either be blocking and get hit through block because on your opponents screen you weren’t blocking, or you would get hit with the damage of whip and take flight simultaneously. Neither of those occur.

Maybe I should define those two for anyone else in this thread that can’t help themselves but to throw the two words around whenever they die in PvP.

Desynchronization: When your data is timed differently from your opponents.
Bug: When something is not working intentionally.

So let’s use them appropriately now, when you get hit by the Fighter’s Guild crossbow and snipe after each other, your game will almost with certainty “desyc” where your health doesn’t move at all yet on your opponent’s screen they are doing different instances of damage over a tight window visually lowering yours. Another instance, is when you get hit by an Executioner while at 50% health and drop dead, on your screen you have 50% health, on your opponent’s you are in execute.

Now for a bug, that is anything that happens unintentionally. Walking through a wall is unintentional. If Charm is somehow managing to get people through walls, that is a bug, and should be addressed… by fixing collision within the game.

Now that we’ve adequately defined what both a “bug” and a “desych” are, can we stop getting emotional and using them as trigger key words collectively? Great.

Until we have a definitive explanation for how Charmed should be interacting with enemies, from a developer, then it’s all semantics. We can argue back in forth about what we believe Charmed should be doing, to no end, being both completely wrong.

Bottom line is, I do believe it should exist in the game, and if there are problems, they should be fixed without destroying the effect.

Galeriano2 · August 2

Theist_VII wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Is it a bug that prevents you from breaking the stun immediately or is it an intended part of the charm mechanic?

Perhaps some developer insight into how this effect is supposed to work would clear it up.

@ZOS_Kevin

A mechanic that prevents You from breaking stun immidiately? Nice copium.

Sure man all the issues with that ability are intended design. The fact that it sometimes breaks normally and sometimes with a delay, the fact that often there is no animation or animation happens with a delay , the fact that there is often a delay on using anything afterwards all those things must be intended design and definietly not a bug.

Oh and regardless Your previous claims about warden's charm being unique it really isn't since there is already a mythic item in the game that charms the enemies and it was added almost 2 years ago.

So at the end of the day it's just a bugged feature that was already available for everyone, warden just got the easiest acces to it.

Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after Take Flight? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after an Aurora Javelin? Is it a bug that guarantees a free hit after flame staff Clench?

How is it “copium” to presume that Charmed would function similar to Knockback when there is precedent?

Some abilities enable a free hit after a stun, Charm could very well have been designed with that function in mind.

Now you say it’s not unique because it’s sourced from a Mythic aswell, but you fail to see that you’re injecting your interpretation into the very definition of what unique is. Unique in regards to Charm, is a new type of combat stun that functions differently, irregardless of how it’s sourced.

Yes, knockbacks (because all described by You abiliites are knockbacks) have a common issue of being desynced and bugged. It's not a guaranteed free hit after also, it's just a free hit when ability bugs out and causes a break free desync. ZoS even tried to fix this but failed.

This is why beliving that there could be a stun that by design can't be broken immidiately is a copium. When something like that happens it's awlays a bug or desync, Always.

It's hard to call something new when it existed for few years straight after launch then it was removed and then it came back two years ago just under different name.

Got the receipts?

Where does it say that the guaranteed hit from knockback isn’t intentional? Just because you say the game “should” play a certain way, does not mean it is the definitive logic to apply.

It is guaranteed that every time a Take Flight is unblocked, you will be whipped. Every. Time. That’s not a desync or a bug, and anyone who’s played Dragonknight for an hour or two would know that, if that’s a “bug” then how has it persisted since launch? If this was a “desynch” then one of two things would happen, you would either be blocking and get hit through block because on your opponents screen you weren’t blocking, or you would get hit with the damage of whip and take flight simultaneously. Neither of those occur.

Maybe I should define those two for anyone else in this thread that can’t help themselves but to throw the two words around whenever they die in PvP.
Desynchronization: When your data is timed differently from your opponents.

Bug: When something is not working intentionally.

So let’s use them appropriately now, when you get hit by the Fighter’s Guild crossbow and snipe after each other, your game will almost with certainty “desyc” where your health doesn’t move at all yet on your opponent’s screen they are doing different instances of damage over a tight window visually lowering yours. Another instance, is when you get hit by an Executioner while at 50% health and drop dead, on your screen you have 50% health, on your opponent’s you are in execute.

Now for a bug, that is anything that happens unintentionally. Walking through a wall is unintentional. If Charm is somehow managing to get people through walls, that is a bug, and should be addressed… by fixing collision within the game.

Now that we’ve adequately defined what both a “bug” and a “desych” are, can we stop getting emotional and using them as trigger key words collectively? Great.

Until we have a definitive explanation for how Charmed should be interacting with enemies, from a developer, then it’s all semantics. We can argue back in forth about what we believe Charmed should be doing, to no end, being both completely wrong.

Bottom line is, I do believe it should exist in the game, and if there are problems, they should be fixed without destroying the effect.

Going by Your logic where does it say that guaranteed hit after knockback is intentional? Is there any part of skill description stating this because most abilities that works uniquely and differently than the rest have that uniqueness mentioned in description. For example stuns like javelin that go through block despite belonging to the group that normally can be blocked have it mentioned specifically in the descriptions.

Don't You think it would be quite an oversight for developer to not mention for 10 years straight that knockbacks have built in stunlock? Don't You find it wierd that the same knockbacks that are now causing mentioned issues were not causing them in the past and nothing about any stunlock type of change to them was mentioned in the patchnotes? Also it's quite obvious to notice that being unable to break free immidiately after knockback is a bug because they were actually fixing that in the past and like with many other things they kinda fixed it but not entirely. Quite often You can actually break free and dodge next incoming attack after You've been knocked back. So yeah there is no such a thing as intentional stunlock.

It's easier to whip someone after landing with the leap because leap usually have a long travel time especially when performaned from a distance (but even from a close range it have aminimal travel time) so before DK reaches enemy with a leap some time passes and that time is extracted from the GCD timer so gap between hitting someone with the leap and being able to queue next attack is smaller than between lets say two regular spammable abilities which gives enemy less time to react. You can still avoid that next attack if You're really fast though but that requires a lot of practice and quite often luck. Fun fact, because DBoS have a 0,5 sec cast time it's also almost guaranteed to land a whip after stunning enemy with dawnbreker stun due to the same reason as with leap.

So it has nothing to do with some forced stunlock. This is also why for example new destro staff ability from scribing when created with a knockback script gives You basically zero chance to react if You've been knocked back because it have a cast time longer than GCD so next hit can be queued immidiately after cast of that ability. This is one of the reasons why some stun combos are easier to avoid than others.

Bottom line is that features that bug and desyncs way more often than the others don't have a place in the game and current warden's script is one of these abilities.

If You want to tell us that when this ability is showing animation with a delay, not playing animation at all, not applying CC immunity propely, not breaking for 2-3 GCD and performing all the other wierd stuff on the screen may be all intended features and we need to wait for official developer's response than sorry but I can't take You seriously.

Vaqual · September 28

Got stuck in the charm, chasing the warden for upwards for 30 s in a BG today, while he was just doing something else. Peacefully strolling around on autopilot. As the devs must have intended.

Just in case this thread has been forgotten.