Conditional class change token.

LittlePinkDot

I know it's been discussed before. And I understand why ZoS didnt want class change tokens, but I think I found a compromise.

The class change token can only be used to change to a class you've already leveled to 50 with another character.

That way it can't be used by people trying to take the easy way and try out every class without doing the work.

freespirit

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

LittlePinkDot

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

I want to turn my stam NB into a stam sorc because I'm turning my Altmer Stam sorc into a mag sorc. But I still want a stam sorc and I have no use for a stam NB anymore since mag NB is just so much better and I already have one.

Soarora

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

Some people build stories for their characters and realize that a different class would've suited them better. Without a class change token this would require changing the appearance of the current character (or deleting it) and then making an entirely new character, which could be bad depending on how long it took the person to realize this and if they have a way to save and transfer the sliders.

TechMaybeHic

It's the extra skill lines, mount upgrades, and skyshards they want you to buy the convenience on another character is why they won't. If you can just power level a class to 50 and port that class to one character with all that topped off, they'd lose money.

TDVM

The game doesn't need this, it already has plenty of problems that need solving, rather than adding something that will create even more problems.

DenverRalphy

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

I want to turn my stam NB into a stam sorc because I'm turning my Altmer Stam sorc into a mag sorc. But I still want a stam sorc and I have no use for a stam NB anymore since mag NB is just so much better and I already have one.

Yeah, that's what the Armory System is for. Use an Armory Slot and now you have 1 StamSorc, 1 MagSorc, and 1 StamBlade, for a whopping 3 separate classes. A class change token would leave you with only 2 classes at the end.

AnduinTryggva

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

Don't make such presumptions based on your own beliefs.

I want class change token for some of my characters as I finally am quite dissatisfied with my choice when I set up the character. All my characters are built upon an rpg idea but sometimes these ideas evolve and then another class is more fitting.

Other players just find out that one class suits them better or is more fun to play for them.

DenverRalphy

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

Don't make such presumptions based on your own beliefs.

I want class change token for some of my characters as I finally am quite dissatisfied with my choice when I set up the character. All my characters are built upon an rpg idea but sometimes these ideas evolve and then another class is more fitting.

Other players just find out that one class suits them better or is more fun to play for them.

So the person you're quoting is correct then. You change your mind, decide you want to go a different direction, but you don't want to do the work to get there.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

People who do not understand why people want class change tokens seem to be the same people who seemingly struggle to understand the meaning of a Role Playing Game.

DenverRalphy

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

People who do not understand why people want class change tokens seem to be the same people who seemingly struggle to understand the meaning of a Role Playing Game.

I understand the concept perfectly well. I've been playing RPG's since the pencil/paper days. You can change classes all you want. It's called "Rolling a new character" and starting over. Just because it's for Role Play doesn't give it a free ride.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

DenverRalphy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

People who do not understand why people want class change tokens seem to be the same people who seemingly struggle to understand the meaning of a Role Playing Game.

I understand the concept perfectly well. I've been playing RPG's since the pencil/paper days. You can change classes all you want. It's called "Rolling a new character" and starting over. Just because it's for Role Play doesn't give it a free ride.

No I don't think you do, someone wants the character they have made a story with, the character they have done all the quests with to have their class changed, it could be for many reasons, maybe they are a Necromancer who wants to reform themselves, creating a new character does not help them do that, because that new character has none of them quests done and none of the Motifs/Traits and so on.

Some of us have made actual characters, not stand-ins for the person behind the Keyboard or "Toons" as some people call them.

xylena_lazarow

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You can change classes all you want. It's called "Rolling a new character" and startng over

It's a bit different when you're hanging out with a group of friends face to face at the table, compared to making a new ESO character, where you're obligated to spend many many many hours alone on braindead grinding of decade old obsolete content, instead of joining your friends for some new dungeons or PvP. The people asking for class change tokens just want to be able to spend more time with friends, not obligated to work a second job all alone.

DenverRalphy

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

People who do not understand why people want class change tokens seem to be the same people who seemingly struggle to understand the meaning of a Role Playing Game.

I understand the concept perfectly well. I've been playing RPG's since the pencil/paper days. You can change classes all you want. It's called "Rolling a new character" and starting over. Just because it's for Role Play doesn't give it a free ride.

No I don't think you do, someone wants the character they have made a story with, the character they have done all the quests with to have their class changed, it could be for many reasons, maybe they are a Necromancer who wants to reform themselves, creating a new character does not help them do that, because that new character has none of them quests done and none of the Motifs/Traits and so on.

The bolded is absolutely correct. And its the crux of the whole matter. The player wants to change classes but not do the work to have built one up. Doesn't matter if it's for role-play purposes, or because the current meta has changed and the player is a min/maxer.

Elsonso

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I know it's been discussed before. And I understand why ZoS didnt want class change tokens, but I think I found a compromise.

The class change token can only be used to change to a class you've already leveled to 50 with another character.

That way it can't be used by people trying to take the easy way and try out every class without doing the work.

Actually, as I recall from what Lambert said on stream, the reason for no class change tokens is because a lot of things in the game depend on the class and all of that has to be unpacked and changed to do class changes. That makes me think the game was designed with the basic assumption that they could always depend on the class remaining constant. The class is sort of baked in, to put it another way. Like changing a Chocolate Chip cookie to a Raisin Cookie after the cookie has been out of the oven for a few hours.

I don't think that technical reasons are the only thing standing in the way. I am sure they have philosophical opinions on the subject, as well. It is just that I think the cost of doing the technical work has to be settled before anything else can happen, so nothing has happened. So far.


Edit: If you need me, I'll be out hunting down cookies, now.

xylena_lazarow

Elsonso wrote: »

the reason for no class change tokens is because a lot of things in the game depend on the class and all of that has to be unpacked and changed to do class changes

They said this about faction tokens too, faction choice being baked into your base game quest progression and such, then they did it anyway. When they think they can make money off class tokens, they'll add them.

DenverRalphy

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You can change classes all you want. It's called "Rolling a new character" and startng over

It's a bit different when you're hanging out with a group of friends face to face at the table, compared to making a new ESO character, where you're obligated to spend many many many hours alone on braindead grinding of decade old obsolete content, instead of joining your friends for some new dungeons or PvP. The people asking for class change tokens just want to be able to spend more time with friends, not obligated to work a second job all alone.

So... by that token, having multiple character slots isn't needed because you only need 1 and be able to change your class whenever you like? Because nobody runs multiple characters right? Cuz who'd ever play them if all their friends are higher level?

xylena_lazarow

DenverRalphy wrote: »

So... by that token, having multiple character slots isn't needed because you only need 1 and be able to change your class whenever you like? Because nobody runs multiple characters right? Cuz who'd ever play them if all their friends are higher level?

Not mutually exclusive, I've got alts collecting dust, that might see occasional play if I could change their class for 2500 clowns, but it would be a massive waste of my time to grind up a new toon for niche purpose. It's not 1:1 when you have many players who would rather disengage than grind a new toon, but would be willing to pay cash for a token.

Elsonso

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

the reason for no class change tokens is because a lot of things in the game depend on the class and all of that has to be unpacked and changed to do class changes

When they think they can make money off class tokens, they'll add them.

Yes, which is why I expect them to eventually buckle down and do it, even if it is a technical challenge above that of all other change tokens.

We will probably get one with the next new class, or when they decide they are done with new classes.

Sarannah

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

The class change token can only be used to change to a class you've already leveled to 50 with another character.

And only once per year! To prevent players from changing their classes to all the overpowered ones every new update.

Personally I am against a class change token though. Just add many more character slots instead.

LittlePinkDot

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

I want to turn my stam NB into a stam sorc because I'm turning my Altmer Stam sorc into a mag sorc. But I still want a stam sorc and I have no use for a stam NB anymore since mag NB is just so much better and I already have one.

Yeah, that's what the Armory System is for. Use an Armory Slot and now you have 1 StamSorc, 1 MagSorc, and 1 StamBlade, for a whopping 3 separate classes. A class change token would leave you with only 2 classes at the end.

But I don't want a stam blade anymore. But I do want to keep her race as wood elf. A wood elf Stam sorc would have better sustain.
The mag sorc is an Altmer.

Ishtarknows

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

I want to turn my stam NB into a stam sorc because I'm turning my Altmer Stam sorc into a mag sorc. But I still want a stam sorc and I have no use for a stam NB anymore since mag NB is just so much better and I already have one.

Change your altmer to dark elf and you can have a mag sorc build and a stam sorc build in your armoury.

the1andonlyskwex

Based on what happened with race change tokens (accusations that ZOS was only making balance changes to sell tokens, followed by cessation of all future racial balance changes), I think a class change token would have a lot of undesirable side effects, regardless of how it's limited or restricted.

AnduinTryggva

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

Don't make such presumptions based on your own beliefs.

I want class change token for some of my characters as I finally am quite dissatisfied with my choice when I set up the character. All my characters are built upon an rpg idea but sometimes these ideas evolve and then another class is more fitting.

Other players just find out that one class suits them better or is more fun to play for them.

So the person you're quoting is correct then. You change your mind, decide you want to go a different direction, but you don't want to do the work to get there.

Again you are just placing your own presumptions on me.

I have 20 characters, most of them are above level 30, only 3 are at the start.

I don't want to delete a character just because my story for this character evolved. I really like any of my characters. For me they are characters, not pupets that I throw away because I don't like them anymore. I have put a lot of effort in the character edition to get the looks that I wanted. They get their own armor style carefully selected to fit this character.

Maybe you don't understand this approach to this game. Is fine. No problem. But simply don't put your own presumptions and prejudices on others.

the1andonlyskwex

My RP character concept is that my main is always the most powerful class!

Shagreth

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

People who do not understand why people want class change tokens seem to be the same people who seemingly struggle to understand the meaning of a Role Playing Game.

Finally someone said it. Class Change Tokens would potentially make me come back to the game, they are sorely needed.

Elsonso

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Based on what happened with race change tokens (accusations that ZOS was only making balance changes to sell tokens, followed by cessation of all future racial balance changes), I think a class change token would have a lot of undesirable side effects, regardless of how it's limited or restricted.

This is a good reason why they might wait until they are "done" with the classes. Eventually, they will stop creating new classes and new class skills, and then they don't have to balance them anymore. Class change token would work fine at that point and provide extra revenue for the game as it ages.

OsUfi

My main and really my only character is a necro who has completed every quest in the game. Found every skyshard. Researched every trait. Has a speedy mount. Has a staggering amount of plans, praxi, motifs, and everything else unlocked. She's missing 18 skill points in the entire game from the alliance ranks.

Although I'm happy with her, happy as a necro, and don't want to change character, the thought of main'ing any other character just makes me whoozy. I can both absolutely see why folks want a class change as being unhappy with your character, and wanting to main another class in my position would utterly suck, and also see why ZoS would never allow it.

CameraBeardThePirate

freespirit wrote: »

Unless you have deleted that character what would be the point?

You already have a character of that class and if by some chance you feel that character's race is wrong there are already race change tokens

Looking at this honestly people want this to skip the hard work, that's the point.

Not wanting to farm all the passives/sky shards/Psijic/Undaunted/Mages Guild/trait research/etc etc? I have 2 level 50 toons of every class, but only about 5 or 6 of them have all the passives they need for PvP/end game content.

barney2525

Conditional class change token?

OK. ... when its raining you are a sorceror .. otherwise you are a dragonknight

during the day you are a Nightblade and at night you are a Templar

TaSheen

barney2525 wrote: »

Conditional class change token?

OK. ... when its raining you are a sorceror .. otherwise you are a dragonknight

during the day you are a Nightblade and at night you are a Templar

Um. I'm sure during night you'd be a vampire. (Yeah I know it's not a class - just couldn't resist....)