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Unreasonably harsh punishments from support
Mycroftz
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I wanted to bring up a huge concern of mine. Does ESO support even read tickets or care about what people are reporting? Do they bother to check and see what the potential violation is, if the account has any history of prior violations, account age, etc?
The reason I ask is because it appears the moderators don't bother with all of that stuff. Even the most minor violations are resulting in permanent bans, for people with no prior violations.
Recently during one of the events where reconstruction costs were reduced, players learned of a way to massively exploit the system and create unlimited gold and materials from it (namely nirncrux). Some were permanently banned, but most bans were reversed to temporary account suspensions, despite very blatant and severe exploitation of something that was unintended (and frankly, poorly tested).
Now imagine you're playing with friends, one of them shows you how to perform a launch jump, something that has been around for years and years. Are you supposed to do it? Probably not. But, hundreds of players do, and no one has been banned from it. It has no real considerable impact on the game. However, recently someone I know in the game was permanently banned for doing this launch jump, because it made another player upset, the player reported him, and he received an immediate permanent ban.
Apparently, this "exploit" has been around as long as Cyrodiil has been, has been reported numerous times. It is widely known among the PvP community (I did not know of it, as I do not PvP), and if you go into Cyrodiil and wait long enough at this particular location you can see people doing it all the time. Yet, none of them get banned. Countless videos on youtube show this, yet none of those people get banned. Now, this friend of mine who did get banned (along with a guild mate) has been playing this game since launch, has had no previous violations ever, no warnings, nothing. He is unable to properly appeal the ban because support has deactivated the online account. He has inquired numerous times in the ticket by replying to it, with very little response from support.
You have a player who was taught something and did it, thinking it would be harmless, had no intention of being malicious or harmful, obviously made a mistake that has no previous indication of resulting in anyone being banned, who would have never done this if it would have resulted in a permanent ban. A player where if given a warning or a temporary suspension (which is appropriate) would learn from this mistake, and continue going about his day to not.
This is such a minor violation, not to mention the fact it is a known issue that has been ignored and has no "fix" planned (if the 7 years of videos on youtube is any indication of that), and support refuses to be reasonable. You have people in the game who have committed much more severe violations and get off with a simple warning, or a 3 day or 7 day suspension. You have people who have committed several violations over and over for the same thing and STILL have never been permanently banned. And now you have a dedicated loyal player of this game who immediately gets a permanent ban and no way of rectifying this situation.
A simple search on youtube will even bring up videos from ESO content creators (big name ones) participating in similar exploits, even showing how to do them. None of these people are permanently banned.
So, what gives?
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on July 25, 2024 9:15PM The reason I ask is because it appears the moderators don't bother with all of that stuff. Even the most minor violations are resulting in permanent bans, for people with no prior violations.
Recently during one of the events where reconstruction costs were reduced, players learned of a way to massively exploit the system and create unlimited gold and materials from it (namely nirncrux). Some were permanently banned, but most bans were reversed to temporary account suspensions, despite very blatant and severe exploitation of something that was unintended (and frankly, poorly tested).
Now imagine you're playing with friends, one of them shows you how to perform a launch jump, something that has been around for years and years. Are you supposed to do it? Probably not. But, hundreds of players do, and no one has been banned from it. It has no real considerable impact on the game. However, recently someone I know in the game was permanently banned for doing this launch jump, because it made another player upset, the player reported him, and he received an immediate permanent ban.
Apparently, this "exploit" has been around as long as Cyrodiil has been, has been reported numerous times. It is widely known among the PvP community (I did not know of it, as I do not PvP), and if you go into Cyrodiil and wait long enough at this particular location you can see people doing it all the time. Yet, none of them get banned. Countless videos on youtube show this, yet none of those people get banned. Now, this friend of mine who did get banned (along with a guild mate) has been playing this game since launch, has had no previous violations ever, no warnings, nothing. He is unable to properly appeal the ban because support has deactivated the online account. He has inquired numerous times in the ticket by replying to it, with very little response from support.
You have a player who was taught something and did it, thinking it would be harmless, had no intention of being malicious or harmful, obviously made a mistake that has no previous indication of resulting in anyone being banned, who would have never done this if it would have resulted in a permanent ban. A player where if given a warning or a temporary suspension (which is appropriate) would learn from this mistake, and continue going about his day to not.
This is such a minor violation, not to mention the fact it is a known issue that has been ignored and has no "fix" planned (if the 7 years of videos on youtube is any indication of that), and support refuses to be reasonable. You have people in the game who have committed much more severe violations and get off with a simple warning, or a 3 day or 7 day suspension. You have people who have committed several violations over and over for the same thing and STILL have never been permanently banned. And now you have a dedicated loyal player of this game who immediately gets a permanent ban and no way of rectifying this situation.
A simple search on youtube will even bring up videos from ESO content creators (big name ones) participating in similar exploits, even showing how to do them. None of these people are permanently banned.
So, what gives?
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EdjeSwift✭✭✭✭✭
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So, what gives?
They were reported, it was investigated and they received the results of the investigation.
I always say there are always three (provided it's two parties, if more, take number of parties and +1) sides to every story, Side A, Side B, and the truth. If their accounts were actioned due to this report who knows what else they could have had on their record, or perhaps the report was enough to merit being actioned but others were not based upon the fact they were not reported. Bringing this to the forums isn't going to be the most constructive because we'll only ever get limited sides of the story as we'll never know exactly how support came to the conclusion that they did.
Edited by EdjeSwift on July 25, 2024 8:23PMAntiquities Addict4 -
Mycroftz✭✭✭
So, what gives?
They were reported, it was investigate and they received the results of the investigation.
I always say there are always three (provided it's two parties, if more, take number of parties and +1) sides to every story, Side A, Side B, and the truth. If their accounts were actioned due to this report who knows what else they could have had on their record, or perhaps the report was enough to merit being actioned but others were not based upon the fact they were not reported. Bringing this to the forums isn't going to be the most constructive because we'll only ever get limited sides of the story as we'll never know exactly how support came to the conclusion that they did.
Of course there can be multiple sides to every story, but my point is this account has no previous violations. That has been verified. This is his only "violation" and he was given no warning. Many others reported for the same issue are not banned, nor have they received a warning.
People who violate terms and code of conduct definitely deserve some form of punishment, but this seems to be extremely out of proportion given that it is not a very critical or severe violation. I have seen many people who have done way worse things get off easy, and then seeing this seems like support just doesn't care or bother with trying to be reasonable. Not only this, another person I know was instantly banned for a name that was using different letters to look like another players name; routinely they just make you change your name when it is in violation, but they didn't even bother here.3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing is for sure. After due investigation, ZOS will know more about individual players' logged actions and past account history than their friends will.6 -
EdjeSwift✭✭✭✭✭
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Of course there can be multiple sides to every story, but my point is this account has no previous violations. That has been verified. This is his only "violation" and he was given no warning. Many others reported for the same issue are not banned, nor have they received a warning.
People who violate terms and code of conduct definitely deserve some form of punishment, but this seems to be extremely out of proportion given that it is not a very critical or severe violation. I have seen many people who have done way worse things get off easy, and then seeing this seems like support just doesn't care or bother with trying to be reasonable. Not only this, another person I know was instantly banned for a name that was using different letters to look like another players name; routinely they just make you change your name when it is in violation, but they didn't even bother here.
You can't know what or what isn't on an account's ledger from the side of the company without actually working for/having access to their files and databases, so the fact that it's their "first violation" is conjecture.
As for your name example, that seems like appropriate action if the name was used to impersonate or harass the other player or degrade their reputation. without full context we'll never know what REALLY happened, but your friends can definitely tell you their side and make themselves look like they did nothing wrong.Antiquities Addict2 -
Mycroftz✭✭✭One thing is for sure. After due investigation, ZOS will know more about individual players' logged actions and past account history than their friends will.
Yes, and in the email they will list out all of your violations after doing an investigation into your account. The only violation listed here was "exploitation of the game terrain to gain access to a keep." If this was so game breaking, why haven't they fixed it in 7 years? If this is such a bad exploit, why are all the other people participating in it also not permanently banned?
Do you think it is reasonable to permanently ban a 10 year old account for 1 very minor violation, which is widespread and has been done by hundreds of players who have suffered no consequences? Especially when people who broke the economy of the game deliberately taking advantage of an exploit for their own personal gain did not get a permanent ban?3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Submitting numerous tickets is a good way to get yourself pushed to the back of line without support.
Tell your friend to stop submitting new tickets and let them investigate the single one. Be respectful. And don't use other people got away with cheating as a justification for cheating.
Also ask your friend for their ticket number and post it here. Staff can't do anything about it without a ticket number.Edited by spartaxoxo on July 25, 2024 7:57PM1 -
Mycroftz✭✭✭You can't know what or what isn't on an account's ledger from the side of the company without actually working for/having access to their files and databases, so the fact that it's their "first violation" is conjecture.
I mentioned this above; when you appeal a permanent ban, they will list out all of your violations after reviewing your account. This was the only violation.
It was a spare account used for storage, a lowbie with no game activity. No impersonation or anything, and the name was changed but still banned. It is just an example of where in the past they'd let you change it, but now seem to just permaban everything.As for your name example, that seems like appropriate action if the name was used to impersonate or harass the other player or degrade their reputation. without full context we'll never know what REALLY happened, but your friends can definitely tell you their side and make themselves look like they did nothing wrong.
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EdjeSwift✭✭✭✭✭
✭It was a spare account used for storage, a lowbie with no game activity. No impersonation or anything, and the name was changed but still banned. It is just an example of where in the past they'd let you change it, but now seem to just permaban everything.
If it was a storage account then why did it get reported? Unless there was a reason for the reporting/account action, it is highly doubtful that anything would have happened.Antiquities Addict1 -
Mycroftz✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Submitting numerous tickets is a good way to get yourself pushed to the back of line without support.
Tell your friend to stop submitting new tickets and let them investigate the single one. Be respectful. And don't use other people got away with cheating as a justification for cheating.
Also ask your friend for their ticket number and post it here. Staff can't do anything about it without a ticket number.
He can't submit anything here, the account deactivation extends to online services too. The only way he was able to submit a ticket was by saying "i cant login" and he received one reply. He has responded to that ticket several times over the last 10 days with no reply from support. He did not submit several separate tickets.
He was respectful in the reply, stating he did not mean to be malicious in any way, that he made a mistake, apologized for it and will not participate in this again, that he was unaware it was such a serious problem since its something people have been doing for years. I've seen the reply, it is extremely respectful and remorseful. This guy has played the game since launch, very much enjoys it, is very active in many guilds and activities, spending countless (I think over 15k hours) over that time and is very sad with this outcome because of all the time and money invested into the account. It's not a situation where one would just "start over."2 -
Mycroftz✭✭✭If it was a storage account then why did it get reported? Unless there was a reason for the reporting/account action, it is highly doubtful that anything would have happened.
Reported something else, seems support then looked at all associated accounts and found this one and banned it for the name. The account itself was not reported.0 -
Nharimlur_Finor✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Submitting numerous tickets is a good way to get yourself pushed to the back of line without support.
Really?
How can you be so sure?0 -
kevkj✭✭✭✭Judgement from the halls of Zenimax be neither swift nor fair. Punishment rarely just or measured. What hope do we mortals have but to pray to the Divines every night that we might yet breath sweet Tamriel air another day.2
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Submitting numerous tickets is a good way to get yourself pushed to the back of line without support.
Really?
How can you be so sure?
because kevin and other zos people have told us lol
when you create a new ticket, it gets placed in the back of the queue and has to be worked through the queue again, if you respond to an active ticket it gets handled fasterplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities3 -
Mycroftz✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Submitting numerous tickets is a good way to get yourself pushed to the back of line without support.
Really?
How can you be so sure?
because kevin and other zos people have told us lol
when you create a new ticket, it gets placed in the back of the queue and has to be worked through the queue again, if you respond to an active ticket it gets handled faster
Yeah he has been responding to the same email. He hasn't heard back since the initial reply that I mentioned above.
The number he gave me is #240717-002534 if someone is inclined to look into it.0 -
ZOS_KevinCommunity ManagerHi all, we would like to remind everyone that it is against Community Guidelines to discuss the ins and outs of your specific moderation process. Cases are unique and depend on circumstance, so it makes it difficult to have these conversations without being specific. And that leads into a bunch of other issues.
Mycroftz, thank you for posting your ticket. We'll touch base with customer service and then follow up with you via a DM. And to confirm as others have stated, putting in multiple tickets does set you back in the line. So that will just extend your wait time. The best thing you can do is when you place a ticket and would like a status update, please ping myself or a mod on the forum and we can check in with customer service without messing up your place in line.Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter1 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings everyone,
As this thread has run its course and Kevin has given information on how to continue, we will be closing it at this time.
Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules. in mind when posting on the forums.0
This discussion has been closed.