Mirrormoor Incursion side bosses need better incentives

BahometZ · July 19

Too many players just wait in the middle for a handful of players to do the dirty work. There is no loot incentive to kill the solo valkynaz, and during quiet periods when its just you and the bees I cannot be arsed going through three of them by myself just to get blue gloves of the zone set. They should have a chance to drop something actually valuable, so that people might actually help.

SickleCider · July 19

I think a lot of people may not realize that the little sparklies flying from the incursion means there's another necessary step that needs done, too. On my first one I didn't realize the side bosses were a thing. Did a little looking around when I realized nothing was happening and figured it out, but I'm not sure everyone would do that.

DenverRalphy · July 19

10 years ago, back when Dolmens were actually a challenge, a gullible rumor spread around that deactivating anchor pinions increased your chance for better loot in the chest at the end. As a result, players would fight tooth and nail to be the one to clicky them. It was funny how angry some players would get if somebody beat them to it.

Given that example, it shouln't be hard to perpetuate a rumor that each Valkynaz you contribute to killing before spawning the Champion increases your chance at the bigger rewards. The gullibility of the playerbase (in any game) hasn't changed, and surprisngly few of them actually pay attention to the forums to know any different. =D

Elsonso · July 19

SickleCider wrote: »

I think a lot of people may not realize that the little sparklies flying from the incursion means there's another necessary step that needs done, too. On my first one I didn't realize the side bosses were a thing. Did a little looking around when I realized nothing was happening and figured it out, but I'm not sure everyone would do that.

The side bosses are also a little far out, so they cannot be seen from the central area. Terrain often obscures what is happening. If players could see that something was happening, and see where those sparklies landed, they would probably go over to them.

Players are trained by the game to stand near the middle, where the bosses appear, so that they can get enough damage on them to get loot. People who spend too much time on adds or things that are away from the center, tend to lose out.

SilverIce58 · July 19

Elsonso wrote: »

SickleCider wrote: »

I think a lot of people may not realize that the little sparklies flying from the incursion means there's another necessary step that needs done, too. On my first one I didn't realize the side bosses were a thing. Did a little looking around when I realized nothing was happening and figured it out, but I'm not sure everyone would do that.

The side bosses are also a little far out, so they cannot be seen from the central area. Terrain often obscures what is happening. If players could see that something was happening, and see where those sparklies landed, they would probably go over to them.

The side bosses should get a huge pillar of light surrounding them or something as an indication to where they are. It'd tower pretty high into the sky so you can see it and think, "oh! Maybe I should go see about that." And thus more players around the side bosses.

AzuraFan · July 19

SilverIce58 wrote: »

The side bosses should get a huge pillar of light surrounding them or something as an indication to where they are. It'd tower pretty high into the sky so you can see it and think, "oh! Maybe I should go see about that." And thus more players around the side bosses.

I didn't realize this at first, but the whispy light streams emanating from the incursion site point to where the side bosses are. Just go in the direction of one and you'll find the boss. The stream for a side boss disappears once it's down.

Having said that, I agree that where they are (and that they exist) should be made more obvious.

Necrotech_Master · July 19

the side bosses have a chance to drop indeko runes with their loot

the only other way to get them is bonus loot from antiquity digs

that said i find it kind of annoying how far away they are from the center, they arent hard to find but still annoying they can be upwards 50 meters or more away from the actual mosaic

spartaxoxo · July 19

SickleCider wrote: »

I think a lot of people may not realize that the little sparklies flying from the incursion means there's another necessary step that needs done, too. On my first one I didn't realize the side bosses were a thing. Did a little looking around when I realized nothing was happening and figured it out, but I'm not sure everyone would do that.

Yeah. I did the same. I was there by myself, initially. So, I waited around, but nothing was happening. I then double checked the map, and I was at the correct incursion. From there, I looked more closely at the effects and realized I was meant to follow them. Once I figured this out, it was smooth sailing and more people showed up.

Araneae6537 · July 19

I think they can drop the Mirrormoor furnishings and plans but maybe I’m mistaken and that came from the central boss. 🤔

katanagirl1 · July 19

When I first went there players said you had to kill things around the area, but they did not specify the Valkynazes, so I was fighting spriggans and stranglers. Later I saw there was an achievement for the Valkynazes and noticed the light shooting out from the center like the first boss in Scrivener’s Hall. If you have never run that dungeon then it wouldn’t let you know there were other mechanics.

Those guys are really far out from the center. It seems like they dropped better loot the first couple of weeks too.

I’m glad I got my 30 done, now I can do something else.

msetten · July 19

If the side-bosses would start to drop luminous ink, it would be chaotic race to beat them

joergino · July 19

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Given that example, it shouln't be hard to perpetuate a rumor that each Valkynaz you contribute to killing before spawning the Champion increases your chance at the bigger rewards. The gullibility of the playerbase (in any game) hasn't changed, and surprisngly few of them actually pay attention to the forums to know any different. =D

I doubt that this would help in any way since by now everybody must have realized that all "rewards" are utter rubbish.

Mik195 · July 19

Given that there are so many trash mobs around the sites, it would be better if the valkynazes spawned closer or if half the random bears or spriggans were removed.

MasterSpatula · July 20

Agreed with those saying confusing terrain and excessive zone mobs work against participation in these more than lousy loot does.

I got a purple lead off one once, but that's about the best I've seen. Still, they're actually fun little mini-encounters, if you don't get lost trying to find them.

tsaescishoeshiner · July 20

It might help if, when you stepped onto the Mosaic spot, you had an effect that made the side bosses glow through terrain/obstacles (like having them tab targeted).

TheNuminous1 · July 20

It's better then bastion nymics. Or deadland portals.

Every time they try to shake it up I hate it

So this is like an ok middle ground.

Mik195 · July 21

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It might help if, when you stepped onto the Mosaic spot, you had an effect that made the side bosses glow through terrain/obstacles (like having them tab targeted).

This would probably help. If you don't visit the forums or stumble across the side bosses, you might think that killing the little mobs that spawn are what starts the boss fight. That's what I thought originally.

Jaraal · July 21

BahometZ wrote: »

Too many players just wait in the middle for a handful of players to do the dirty work.

Yep, after getting nothing but vendor junk from having to run around looking for and soloing 1 million HP+ trash mobs, I've joined the wait in the center. I'll stand in an area on the mosaic where I know I or the companion will get aggro, and then tab out and do other things on the internet until the ESO icon turns orange and I know the champion has spawned.

The sad part is that now that most players have the achievements and their sticker books filled with the new, underwhelming sets, the incursions are practically deserted, and nobody wants to spend 10-15 minutes soloing one of these.

Necrotech_Master · July 22

Jaraal wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

Too many players just wait in the middle for a handful of players to do the dirty work.

Yep, after getting nothing but vendor junk from having to run around looking for and soloing 1 million HP+ trash mobs, I've joined the wait in the center. I'll stand in an area on the mosaic where I know I or the companion will get aggro, and then tab out and do other things on the internet until the ESO icon turns orange and I know the champion has spawned.

The sad part is that now that most players have the achievements and their sticker books filled with the new, underwhelming sets, the incursions are practically deserted, and nobody wants to spend 10-15 minutes soloing one of these.

while i was still running them last week trying to get the music box lead, there was still usually on avg about 8-12 players at the incursions that visited to complete the daily, which is enough to still make these events progress decently fast

the game is 24 hours though, so im sure it falls off a bit more during really non-peak hours

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

It's better then bastion nymics. Or deadland portals.

Every time they try to shake it up I hate it

So this is like an ok middle ground.

i personally didnt mind the deadlands portals as much, it was great for lazy farming, because just had to camp out at the last boss, could even just log out there

bastion nymics are alright, though i feel that the whole seeker step is unnecessary, and maybe some unique loot to get from there besides leads

Jaimeh · July 22

I've seen people waiting around too, and I honestly don't get it, don't they want the main floor to open faster... I think the mirrormoor incursions are my least favourite type of world event since the deadlands portals (and at least the portals had cool aesthetics and kind of a delve vibe on the way to the objective). It's a poor design and once the chapter hype dies down, they will be awful to clear... Also, since we are on the topic why did the writing team decide to make ''valkynaz'' plural? I know ''valkynazes'' kind of sounds like ''kamikaze'' but the plural form seems out of place.

Rkindaleft · July 22

BahometZ wrote: »

Too many players just wait in the middle for a handful of players to do the dirty work. There is no loot incentive to kill the solo valkynaz, and during quiet periods when its just you and the bees I cannot be arsed going through three of them by myself just to get blue gloves of the zone set. They should have a chance to drop something actually valuable, so that people might actually help.

I kinda wish I could upvote this more than once.

I like the aesthetics of the Mirrormoor incursions themselves and I think they did a good job with the design of the fights, but once again they release a world event that's too much running around and killing for trash rewards. Just like Bastion Nymic, Deadlands portals to an extent (other than leads and a rare chance at furnishings), Harrowstorm...

BahometZ · December 17

Now that the new motif is dripping from Mirrormoor Incursions I am seeing a lot more players doing them. Sorry, did I say doing them, I meant waiting at the middle for the handful of players who can be bothered doing the side shards.

It would be really good if side shards dropped useful items, because I am sick of being the only person at multiple side shards, only for everyone to come out of the woodwork once the annoying part is done and suddenly 20 people can now be bothered.

And by useful items I mean a significant drop rate of furnishings, recipes and furmishing materials. One of the few groups of items that can still motivate people in this game.

But why am I bothering complaining, no one cares, and nothing changes.

Jaraal · December 17

BahometZ wrote: »

Now that the new motif is dripping from Mirrormoor Incursions I am seeing a lot more players doing them. Sorry, did I say doing them, I meant waiting at the middle for the handful of players who can be bothered doing the side shards.

It would be really good if side shards dropped useful items, because I am sick of being the only person at multiple side shards, only for everyone to come out of the woodwork once the annoying part is done and suddenly 20 people can now be bothered.

And by useful items I mean a significant drop rate of furnishings, recipes and furmishing materials. One of the few groups of items that can still motivate people in this game.

But why am I bothering complaining, no one cares, and nothing changes.

You are absolutely correct. Nobody is motivated to kill 2 million HP trash mobs just to get some alkahest and a rune worth 5 gold.

If ZOS wants more engagement with the core combat mechanic of their newest zone, then they really need to make it worth the players' while. Add furnishing plans or motifs to the Valkynaz (Valkynazes?) loot pool, and maybe it won't take 15+ minutes to finish a world event.

evymyu233 · December 17

I don't like mirrormoor, it's a stupid design.

loosej · December 17

I don't think adding more valuable drops would increase participation. It would for a little while, until guild traders are flooded with whatever reward you could get from them, at which point the rewards would have lost all their value. The crystal furnishing items are a good example, I used to sell them using the guild store at first, but now they are vendor trash.

The problem, in my opinion, is not so much the rewards but the design of the fight.

The most fun element of incursions, to me, is that you can just jump in if you happen to be around when they activate. I'll do daily incursions for the motif drop until I have all of them collected, but if I'm doing anything else and I see one activating nearby there's a good chance I'll join it as well.

Bastion Nymic, and the group organization required, was a big mistake in that regard (in my opinion). I made a build that could solo them, did just enough for the mount achievement, and plan to never ever do them again.

Mirrormoor Incursions are less bad, but not as good as some have been in the past. They are similar to High Isle / Galen Volcanic Vents (3 spawn points with adds before the main fight), but:

The added distance / travel time is just another way to make us spend more time in the game waiting, without actually getting any content. This game has a lot of those "mechanics", and sometimes I just can't be bothered with them. I've already bought the game, you already have me as a customer, why make me jump through hoops to enjoy it if I could spend my time actually enjoying it. The multiple pauses during the main fight when the Valkynaz activate/deactivate aren't helping with that.
The side adds being far away means you can't see if other people have already engaged them. This means that the first three people to arrive could each pick a different direction without knowing, and end up soloing the side boss. Not a problem for more experienced players, but I have seen more than one low cp player go down from a heavy attack by one of those side bosses. The alternative for those players is to ride around the area in a big arc and find possible allies, or just wait in the middle.

So the plan is to run them until I have the full motif collected. After that I might jump in if I'm in the area and the main boss is active, but no way I'll be searching the side bosses first to get there. Having the add spawns within walking distance of the main boss would have prevented that.

Thysbe · December 17

I was amazed during last event how many people just stood beside the volcanic vent waiting for others to kill the adds instead of participating, its even worse with the mirrormoore sidebosses ofc.

instead of heavy incentivation I would wish for scaling to actively participating players at least reducing the drag since most zone events are not really played outside events

ApoAlaia · December 17

The design certainly disincentivizes efficient 'trains' like the ones that for many years subsisted in zones like S.Elsweyr and The Rift.

I don't know if that is still the case as the demand for dragon sourced reagents is at an all time low and vampiric furniture plans are not the source of wealth they used to be however the fact that a disorganised group of players could clear these world events fairly efficiently kept them as reasonably attractive options for a repeatable activity well beyond the 'sell by date' of the chapters they belong to.

I doubt this will be the case with Mirrormoor incursions as they embody the worst of both worlds. They are more tedious time consuming than geysers whilst having nothing of real value as loot.

They do have one 'upside' if you will, even during events the likelihood of arriving as the incursion is 'closed' is low, but this is such a 'niche' benefit that I don't think it even factored in in the design.

My educated guess is that the general idea was to throttle the rate at which players can complete these events, and at that they definitely succeeded.

Circuitous · December 17

If better loot's not an option, just decreasing their health pool (or just the health needed to make them disrupt the ritual, since they fully heal anyway) would help speed things up a fair bit. Currently they'll bugger off at around 45% health, but that could easily be 70% (and thus closer to the first wave of appearances in the main fight).

Jaraal · December 17

Thysbe wrote: »

I was amazed during last event how many people just stood beside the volcanic vent waiting for others to kill the adds instead of participating, its even worse with the mirrormoore sidebosses ofc.

instead of heavy incentivation I would wish for scaling to actively participating players at least reducing the drag since most zone events are not really played outside events

Yes, it's become a meme at this point. Sometimes players just sit in their /chairs, or do other emotes in the middle of the mosaic as a protest, waiting for somebody else to do the trash boss hunt. However.... the incursions do actually scale to the number of participants. And I've learned this by standing on the outskirts and watching the immunity phases. If there are 10 players watching from a distance, out of aggro range, then the number of Valkynaz that spawn while one or two players fight is decreased. But if all 10 players actually start the fight, then you get the maximum amount of adds. In that respect, they actually do scale like geysers. So I've taken to watching from the outskirts far enough away to not trigger more adds, and then once the last ridiculous immunity phase is ending, jump in when they say, "We stand together," and play the execute phase.

katanagirl1 · December 17

Everything can be fun at first when it’s new. After a while the newness wears off and often the amount of fun as well. The problem with the mosaics is the ratio of reward vs effort is extremely low. The game needs to provide an adequate reward for high-effort activities especially when they are inherently not fun like this one, with all the immunity phases and tons or adds.

spartaxoxo · December 17

They just need to gut the health of the bosses instead. It's ridiculous mechanic that adds nothing but tedious delay.