I guess Gold Road is my favorite quest line now? (light spoilers possible)

StarOfElyon

I didn't think anything would get me as involved as the Wrothgar questline did but Gold Road actually had me deep in my feelings. I was really hoping for a particular outcome and I'm sad about the way it ended. I guess there was no other way it could have ended though. I kind of wish different choices were made by the writers. Not because they were bad choices but because I wanted to keep the things I grew attached to. So well done on the story this time around. It was really great. Even though I'm really sad now that this is all we'll ever get for Ithelia.

Edit: dropped my thoughts in video form: https://youtu.be/OS9zZTMaQKU?si=C-4Du6izNxN88otS

Syldras

See it as a more or less moral and positive "fairytale" ending...

Ithelia, Mora and you joining powers in the end to send Ithelia to a different world where she can live happily ever after, after being stripped from her Daedric Prince powers, so more or less like a happy little mortal, instead of just killing/destroying/un-existing her - or maybe scattering her being, would that be possible with a Daedric Prince? You know it had to be done and I found the ending a rather "humane" outcome

...because lore-wise it all doesn't really make sense anyway.

StarOfElyon

The whole thing felt tragic to me and I wanted some way to

keep her around. Sad that she had to go away but I guess that's better than being imprisoned.

😢

Edit:

I understand that she'll probably just become corporeal again as long as her power exists in the world, but I understand that the whole intent of the ending is to close the book on Ithelia.

BlueRaven

Vard to CWC to Summerset is still my favorite storyline.

But;

I was positive she was going to become the explanation of Dragonbreaks. It seemed like this prince would be such a great explanation for them. The actual ending feels a bit like a cop out.
If that actually played out that way this story would have been my favorite.

Necrotech_Master

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vard to CWC to Summerset is still my favorite storyline.

But;

I was positive she was going to become the explanation of Dragonbreaks. It seemed like this prince would be such a great explanation for them. The actual ending feels a bit like a cop out.
If that actually played out that way this story would have been my favorite.

i would agree with the sentiment on the ending

there was hardly anything to expand on what ithelia could do, what she was trying to do, etc, there was so much hype about a new daedric prince and then shes finally "revealed" and then what felt like immediately sent away to very likely never see her again

a comparison ive done in other threads about this is that this was the main character of a tv series, thats gets offed in episode 2

BlueRaven

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vard to CWC to Summerset is still my favorite storyline.

But;

I was positive she was going to become the explanation of Dragonbreaks. It seemed like this prince would be such a great explanation for them. The actual ending feels a bit like a cop out.
If that actually played out that way this story would have been my favorite.

i would agree with the sentiment on the ending

there was hardly anything to expand on what ithelia could do, what she was trying to do, etc, there was so much hype about a new daedric prince and then shes finally "revealed" and then what felt like immediately sent away to very likely never see her again

a comparison ive done in other threads about this is that this was the main character of a tv series, thats gets offed in episode 2

Exactly. 100%. Although maybe;

The tv show “Dallas - It was all a dream!” Infamous story break would have been my example. Although I may be dating myself there.

StarOfElyon

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vard to CWC to Summerset is still my favorite storyline.

But;

I was positive she was going to become the explanation of Dragonbreaks. It seemed like this prince would be such a great explanation for them. The actual ending feels a bit like a cop out.
If that actually played out that way this story would have been my favorite.

i would agree with the sentiment on the ending

there was hardly anything to expand on what ithelia could do, what she was trying to do, etc, there was so much hype about a new daedric prince and then shes finally "revealed" and then what felt like immediately sent away to very likely never see her again

a comparison ive done in other threads about this is that this was the main character of a tv series, thats gets offed in episode 2

That's what makes it so sad. Gone too soon.

tsaescishoeshiner

I wish we learned more in the questline about what Ithelia wants and hopes for and looks forward to, other than to achieve her mission from the questline. What's her attachment to life and living and freedom, other than it just being better to the alternative?

Necrotech_Master

the only thing which could still be expanded upon is mirrormoor and maybe background lore

when you go through the epilogue and mora erases memory of ithelia, he does not erase the knowledge of mirrormoor, so now that the daedra of mirrormoor have revealed themselves, its possible they could still try to do something to the mortal realm, or at least give us an option to visit that realm at some point

im sure there has to also be writings somewhere involving ithelia or mirrormoor in the future, since mora erased the memories and knowledge that was known, but didnt say it did anything to stuff like written down

i still feel kind of bad for the person who voiced ithelia if this was all their role was going to be as its very unlikely she will be a recurring character

StarOfElyon

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing which could still be expanded upon is mirrormoor and maybe background lore

when you go through the epilogue and mora erases memory of ithelia, he does not erase the knowledge of mirrormoor, so now that the daedra of mirrormoor have revealed themselves, its possible they could still try to do something to the mortal realm, or at least give us an option to visit that realm at some point

im sure there has to also be writings somewhere involving ithelia or mirrormoor in the future, since mora erased the memories and knowledge that was known, but didnt say it did anything to stuff like written down

i still feel kind of bad for the person who voiced ithelia if this was all their role was going to be as its very unlikely she will be a recurring character

I'm sure ZOS has done as much as Bethesda allowed them to do and no less.

Necrotech_Master

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing which could still be expanded upon is mirrormoor and maybe background lore

when you go through the epilogue and mora erases memory of ithelia, he does not erase the knowledge of mirrormoor, so now that the daedra of mirrormoor have revealed themselves, its possible they could still try to do something to the mortal realm, or at least give us an option to visit that realm at some point

im sure there has to also be writings somewhere involving ithelia or mirrormoor in the future, since mora erased the memories and knowledge that was known, but didnt say it did anything to stuff like written down

i still feel kind of bad for the person who voiced ithelia if this was all their role was going to be as its very unlikely she will be a recurring character

I'm sure ZOS has done as much as Bethesda allowed them to do and no less.

for ithelia i would agree

but for mirrormoor, there was also little to no explanations how it was related to fargrave, or even if they were the same realm as it was (to me) partially implied with the questline

Jaimeh

Spoilers ahead: I liked the Necrom story a lot better comparatively. I don't think it was a good plot device, nor good writing, to create a brand new daedric prince, make them overpowered and then dispatch them so neatly and quickly. It reminded me of superhero films or animations where the antagonist is tooted as an all-powerful being that will finally be the one to best the heros only to be easily destroyed and forgotten. Also, I'm nor sure how well the concept of the multiverse work in TES universe, in fact that we have dragonbreaks requires a liner timeline in a solo universe, and a reality without magic is equally weird. There was so little nuance across all the events, and in contrast just a lot of bad jokes and wise-cracking one liners. From all the chapters so far it was the least immersive.

StarOfElyon

Jaimeh wrote: »

Spoilers ahead: I liked the Necrom story a lot better comparatively. I don't think it was a good plot device, nor good writing, to create a brand new daedric prince, make them overpowered and then dispatch them so neatly and quickly. It reminded me of superhero films or animations where the antagonist is tooted as an all-powerful being that will finally be the one to best the heros only to be easily destroyed and forgotten. Also, I'm nor sure how well the concept of the multiverse work in TES universe, in fact that we have dragonbreaks requires a liner timeline in a solo universe, and a reality without magic is equally weird. There was so little nuance across all the events, and in contrast just a lot of bad jokes and wise-cracking one liners. From all the chapters so far it was the least immersive.

Hindsight is 20/20 and this game is older than a lot of the players. The "multiverse" was hardly ever used as a plot point in anything when Arena was made. As time goes on, ideas like this come up. Ideas that the original creators probably never even considered. So I don't look at the lore as rigidly as others. I tend to think that there's an unreliable narrator involved somewhere when it comes to the past. And with other realities as a possibility, I think that leaves room for wires to get crossed, so to speak, and maybe contradictions in accounts of the past were actually just Ithelia changing something based on one of her whims whenever she got loose. And time is always linear but that doesn't mean other realities on their own linear timeline can't exist too.

TaSheen

Arena.... the multiverse.... those are actually phrases that are so out of phase it's unreal. I played Arena at release and for quite a while after (because I'd become so disillusioned with Bioware at that point). I absorbed what I could find about the lore of TES....

And I found a home. The "multiverse" wasn't even anything I knew about in 1994 - all I knew at that point was that.... HERE was a GAME! It was so much fun. I played it for years. And then - there was Daggerfall!

OMG - I don't even know how many times I died trying to get out of the "beginner cave". It WAS NOT FUN (because beating my head against something like that is nothing I will EVER consider "fun").... And then after I'd spent years playing Daggerfall (back when I could manage that "only first person POV") - THEN there was Morrowind!

Well.... Morrowind was a disappointment for me - I don't have any use for dunmer; I don't think the tongs are fun. It just wasn't my thing - but I kept hope for the future!

And then there was Oblivion. And.... years later Skyrim.

Now.... I'm just playing whatever comes along in ESO. And I really really appreciate that this game exists. I'm not primarily a MMO player - but.... it's TES.....

Metafae

I got the impression that Ithelia also explains why so many people can play a game in this universe but their experiences differ so wildly.

I gather the various play throughs are the 'multiverse'.

StarOfElyon

Metafae wrote: »

I got the impression that Ithelia also explains why so many people can play a game in this universe but their experiences differ so wildly.

I gather the various play throughs are the 'multiverse'.

That's what I was thinking earlier too. In a game that doesn't have a specific cannon protagonist but instead has millions of customized characters, it's like we're all existing in our own reality already. My character didn't save Summerset in another person's playthrough, and their character didn't do it in my "world".

Pelanora

There's been multiverses in Dr Who since the 1970s. It's not a new idea. Just maybe not a ES idea.

Syldras

Pelanora wrote: »

There's been multiverses in Dr Who since the 1970s. It's not a new idea. Just maybe not a ES idea.

Yes, but it has been become a hefty trope in media for just a few years now. Almost feels like a fad. I wouldn't be surprised if some person at ZOS suggested it for the current story because it's "the thing to have now".

GuuMoonRyoung

Syldras wrote: »

See it as a more or less moral and positive "fairytale" ending...

Ithelia, Mora and you joining powers in the end to send Ithelia to a different world where she can live happily ever after, after being stripped from her Daedric Prince powers, so more or less like a happy little mortal, instead of just killing/destroying/un-existing her - or maybe scattering her being, would that be possible with a Daedric Prince? You know it had to be done and I found the ending a rather "humane" outcome

...because lore-wise it all doesn't really make sense anyway.

What if, just hear me out, what if the real Ithelia already removed herself from reality just when the mundus was created? The Ithelias we met are just echoes of her true self and the realities we visited are just merely echoes too? We never know anything about the past or future of the heroes of any ES games, what if, Ithelia is the one who sends these heroes in different time period to save Mundus?

I also like to think that Lorkhan is not really gone, when his mortal body was destroyed. he became something outside of reality and found Ithelia. Together, they are manipulating events for who knows what.

StarOfElyon

Syldras wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

There's been multiverses in Dr Who since the 1970s. It's not a new idea. Just maybe not a ES idea.

Yes, but it has been become a hefty trope in media for just a few years now. Almost feels like a fad. I wouldn't be surprised if some person at ZOS suggested it for the current story because it's "the thing to have now".

It's obvious to me that someone was inspired by Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness to create the Necrom and Gold Road stories, but I've enjoyed it so I'm not complaining.

I hope Baragon's concern that Ithelia couldn't be gotten rid of like that proves right.

https://youtu.be/OS9zZTMaQKU?si=C-4Du6izNxN88otS

StarOfElyon

The more I think about it, I suspect that Mora was the cause of Ithelia's madness. He gave a self-fulfilling prophecy by saying Ithelia would become a menace and then provoking her into becoming dangerous. Mora was threatened by Ithelia's power and just wanted to manipulate everyone into helping him get rid of her. 🤔

Faulgor

BlueRaven wrote: »

Vard to CWC to Summerset is still my favorite storyline.

But;

I was positive she was going to become the explanation of Dragonbreaks. It seemed like this prince would be such a great explanation for them. The actual ending feels a bit like a cop out.
If that actually played out that way this story would have been my favorite.

What do you mean? Dragonbreaks don't need another explanation.
In fact, Dragonbreaks are the exact opposite of multiple universes. Aka hates multiple universes so much he weaves contradictory events into the same timeline. From the inside, that looks like cause and effect, the linear flow of time, aka Aka, the dragon, breaks.
Frankly I don't see how Ithelia can exist in the same lore as Dragonbreaks, they contradict each other completely and I hate everything about her.
Actually, I do like the expansion of the Magna Ge - but the quest itself never even brings up that Ithelia is a Magne Ge! Virtually nothing is added by making her a Daedric Prince, and her interesting origin story is completely ignored.

Not to mention, for years people have been dismissing ESO as non-canon, and now ZOS hands them a perfect excuse to dismiss everything. ESO is just in an alternate reality I guess.