Any ideas to entice people to play tanks?

Veinblood1965

Years ago I got tired of waiting in queue for tanks to join so I rolled one. I still play him when I need to run a dungeon or something for a lead or armour piece just so I don't have to wait 30 minutes in queue on my DPS, I actually liked playing my tank back then and played him often on Vet stuff but I'm more into PVP now. Occasionally though I need to run my DPS through something and every single time it's wait wait wait in queue for a tank. Or recently had to run Lucent Citadel for the mythic lead and we got ten people fairly quick except it took a while to find two tanks. I don't really do trials much so didn't think I would be up for the task.

Would it be so bad to give extra rewards for tanks in settings like these? Extra transmutes, extra anything at all? a big high five?

I'm sure some would say hey that's not fair but IMO the majority of us would give several cheers for such a thing. Personally I think it would entice people to play their tanks more often in such settings.

Other ideas? Thoughts?

Stafford197

Making it fun would be a good start.

Why is it that tank builds created via the Tormentor set were gutted? Tormentor was a dungeon set capable of AoE taunting on a handful of off-meta specs…. and because of that, ZOS just removes the AoE option because it’s against their “tanking philosophy”…. Like what.

My only feedback here is that ESO needs to stop taking itself so seriously. It’s a video game. Focus on fun instead of a bunch of arbitrary rules for balancing. There is a long track record of unpopular balancing decisions and it always seems to be based on new arbitrary rules that are created on the spot.

Yudo

Is hard to get carried by your group as a tank, unlike some random DD or H that can just hide in the group.
Groups expect you to have experience and knowledge of mechanics in advance.
Groups expect you to have specific sets, with little flexibility.

Personally I enjoy tanking very much and have tanked pretty much everything.
The pressure to get into tanking new content though is oddly difficult sometimes.
On day 1, people were randomly grouping with anyone and had willingness to learn the new trial upon release.
Literally on day 2, people were selecting only those with experience and achievements.

If something could be done about that, we may see more tanks.

LunaFlora

perhaps a tutorial and/or training area for tanking could be useful.


also making equipment containers curated for sets like Powerful Assault would be very nice.
i have only ever seen it listed for 300k or more gold at guild stores, dozens of listings but still so expensive. (at least on PS EU)
having a tank weapon from one of the most useful tank sets be not very easy to get sucks. you either spend potentially hundreds of thousands of Telvar Stones or gold.

derkaiserliche

I like the idea of wow to give tanks a small extra reward, like gold or extra exp.

I play tank mostly anyways (real one), since the queue timer is very fast for dungeons, but i dont like playing tanks often in trials since i feel i have to "work" way more than a dps or heal + pressure lays on tanks for wipes.

When there is an extra reward, it is of course needed to "prove" that you are a real tank with minimum life/armor or whatever.

Veinblood1965

Yudo wrote: »

Is hard to get carried by your group as a tank, unlike some random DD or H that can just hide in the group.
Groups expect you to have experience and knowledge of mechanics in advance.
Groups expect you to have specific sets, with little flexibility.

Personally I enjoy tanking very much and have tanked pretty much everything.
The pressure to get into tanking new content though is oddly difficult sometimes.
On day 1, people were randomly grouping with anyone and had willingness to learn the new trial upon release.
Literally on day 2, people were selecting only those with experience and achievements.

If something could be done about that, we may see more tanks.

I actually enjoyed it quite a bit myself when I was playing PVE content daily. I still do when I'm after something I need. After running lucent on my DPS and seeing how long it took to find two tanks it just reminded me of how very very long this issue has been going on. Better armour or easier to obtain armour I don't think is the answer though. Maybe an extra Class Script when tanking or something, I'm sure that would bring those people who have tanks out. Or even just extra transmutes, extra something. It's just high time this needs to be addressed. As Stafford said, it's a game. Make it fun. An extra bone to tanks is not going to hurt one darn thing.

Maybe ZoS should take a poll about adding extra rewards for tanks. If the majority or for it and they implement it that makes ZoS look great as they are directly involving players and players can see the results.

Soarora

I disagree about extra rewards for tanks because it’d lead to more fake tanks because some fake tanks overestimate their fake tanking skills or underestimate the necessity of a tank.

At the end of the day, there’s 3 main problems with getting people to tank:
- Intimidation: it is scary knowing that your death or even your misstep can kill the group. You must know your way around as by default you are the leader, you have to engage the enemies. People feel pressured, like they’ll get yelled at for not being good enough.
- Low DPS: what people don’t understand when they tout “there’s no DPS check, I can do as low of damage I want” is that tanking gets increasingly harder the lower the DPS is. If people keep dying or not understanding mechanics, that’s even more on the tank’s plate. I’ve had to do every mechanic and res people while tanking a vet dungeon and that is genuinely more difficult than most HMs and Tris. There are more tanks than you see, but many are against PUGs entirely because their skill level is so much power than guildmates.
- Not enjoying tanking: not everyone will like tanking. That doesn’t mean tanking is bad, but not all people like every role.

The only realistic solution to all 3 of these problems? Friendship. You can study how to tank using overland and guides but nothing teaches like experience in the content and the stress won’t magically go away as toxic players are out there (I even had someone semi-recently yell at me for being a bad tank, for something that wasn’t actually my fault).

Letting tanks do meaningful damage would shift the entire balance of the game towards making content too easy, and while you can make a tank that does some damage, if you’re combining roles you need to be good at all roles involved to begin with.

Changing how tanking plays to encourage people to find it less boring would alienate current tanks and then there would be no one to teach new tanks.

So, finding friends who know how to tank and can teach you or at least you know are patient and nonjudgemental and will let you figure things out are the way to go. Then, playing with people who have higher skill level than PUGs. There’s no fixing the queue unless ZOS implements hard checks, and that’d make a lot of people very angry. Not everyone wants to try to carry random people.

LittlePinkDot

Have a real healer instead of 3 DD's.

alpha_synuclein

Soarora wrote: »

- There are more tanks than you see, but many are against PUGs entirely because their skill level is so much power than guildmates.

...

Then, playing with people who have higher skill level than PUGs. There’s no fixing the queue unless ZOS implements hard checks, and that’d make a lot of people very angry. Not everyone wants to try to carry random people.

This. The tank shortage is much more seen in pugs than in organized PVE communities. Most tanks I know avoid random groups. Dealing with randoms have very little appeal if you can easily find a group that you know what to expect from.

Also, lots of players experienced in other roles tries tanking only after they find a good guild to play in. And those also tend to stay and play within the community they know, very rarely going out to random groups.

Real tanks have lots of responsibilities but at the same time they are extremely dependent on the group they're in. Unless the average competence of pugs increase, I don't see them choosing random groups over premades.

Veinblood1965

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

- There are more tanks than you see, but many are against PUGs entirely because their skill level is so much power than guildmates.

...

Then, playing with people who have higher skill level than PUGs. There’s no fixing the queue unless ZOS implements hard checks, and that’d make a lot of people very angry. Not everyone wants to try to carry random people.

This. The tank shortage is much more seen in pugs than in organized PVE communities. Most tanks I know avoid random groups. Dealing with randoms have very little appeal if you can easily find a group that you know what to expect from.

Also, lots of players experienced in other roles tries tanking only after they find a good guild to play in. And those also tend to stay and play within the community they know, very rarely going out to random groups.

Real tanks have lots of responsibilities but at the same time they are extremely dependent on the group they're in. Unless the average competence of pugs increase, I don't see them choosing random groups over premades.

Sadly this is true. I used to like PUGing as a tank just because of the unpredictability of it, but them I'm weird lol. I queued up the other day for Vet Bedlam on my mag sorc as a DPS and thirty minutes later still no group. It's just amazing that this has been such an issue for years and years and nothing has been even attempted to address it.

pelle412

Something that could entice new tank players to try it out would be to make tank gear viable in solo PvE content. It kind of is, but everything takes 20x as long.

alpha_synuclein

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

- There are more tanks than you see, but many are against PUGs entirely because their skill level is so much power than guildmates.

...

Then, playing with people who have higher skill level than PUGs. There’s no fixing the queue unless ZOS implements hard checks, and that’d make a lot of people very angry. Not everyone wants to try to carry random people.

This. The tank shortage is much more seen in pugs than in organized PVE communities. Most tanks I know avoid random groups. Dealing with randoms have very little appeal if you can easily find a group that you know what to expect from.

Also, lots of players experienced in other roles tries tanking only after they find a good guild to play in. And those also tend to stay and play within the community they know, very rarely going out to random groups.

Real tanks have lots of responsibilities but at the same time they are extremely dependent on the group they're in. Unless the average competence of pugs increase, I don't see them choosing random groups over premades.

Sadly this is true. I used to like PUGing as a tank just because of the unpredictability of it, but them I'm weird lol. I queued up the other day for Vet Bedlam on my mag sorc as a DPS and thirty minutes later still no group. It's just amazing that this has been such an issue for years and years and nothing has been even attempted to address it.

That unpredictability can be good training ground for supports, if you're confident enough to throw yourself on vet. I used to do that a lot as well, when I rolled my first healer. But once I learned enough to join progs I'm pretty much sticking to premades.

allochthons

Unless you're already in a solid, trusted group, learning to tank can be brutal.

I've given it a serious go 3 times. As in, I have golded out sets of Perf. Yoln, Perf. Saxh, Perf Pearlescent Ward, Crimson Oath, Powerful Assault (including an ice staff), all the monsters, all the mythics, and more. I've tanked vSS, vMoL, vKA, and was giving vRG/Bahsei a go the last time my attempt to become a serious tank failed.

I'm a good tank. I'm not an awesome tank. And unless you're an awesome tank, and can learn mechs on the 1st or 2nd try, you get booted from groups. Even dedicated progression groups. I've watched it happen time and time again. I've had it happen to me time and time again. And yet many of the awesome tanks I know are *exhausted.* I want to step up. I've tried to step up. The expectations and pressure are too much.

And now I'm afraid to try again. 90% of the most emotional pain I've had in ESO has been in relation to this.

Why would I put myself through that?

AvalonRanger

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Years ago I got tired of waiting in queue for tanks to join so I rolled one. I still play him when I need to run a dungeon or something for a lead or armour piece just so I don't have to wait 30 minutes in queue on my DPS, I actually liked playing my tank back then and played him often on Vet stuff but I'm more into PVP now. Occasionally though I need to run my DPS through something and every single time it's wait wait wait in queue for a tank. Or recently had to run Lucent Citadel for the mythic lead and we got ten people fairly quick except it took a while to find two tanks. I don't really do trials much so didn't think I would be up for the task.

Would it be so bad to give extra rewards for tanks in settings like these? Extra transmutes, extra anything at all? a big high five?

I'm sure some would say hey that's not fair but IMO the majority of us would give several cheers for such a thing. Personally I think it would entice people to play their tanks more often in such settings.

Other ideas? Thoughts?

It makes some sense, but as a tank main player, I also meet fake DD and fake healer
so many times. Moreover, some of them are also less experienced people for dlc dungeon.

"Hey you! save your stoned team mate by pressing X near the body."
"....(Ignore)"

Usually those people become panic and, keep running around all over the field like
the "headless chicken".....and, wiped. So, tank also suffered meaningless time consuming.

MasterSpatula

Here's an idea. Get ZOS to fix targeting so chains and taunts actually hit the target in my crosshairs instead of something way off center. Why would anyone want to do mob control when you spend half your time actually trying to getting the mobs targeted?

Yudo

Many have given reasons why there is a lack of tanks or how to get more ppl to tank.
My two cents on this is that even those who WANT to tank do not get to tank. Let me explain further.

(First of all, not arguing against the meta.)
I tend to play a mix of sets like one meta set and one support set of choice that is off-meta. I even use light armor for tanking with HP around 26-28K. You can imagine the amount of "look it is a fake tank" I have been dealing with. I love to tank but I do not bother much because I have to link and explain my sets, explain my HP, and motivate my experience every..single..time!

The sad part is that I am most likely much more experienced, and although I say it myself, probably one of the best tanks you could get on average. I have tanked many non-DLC vet trials and HM with this setup. In short, I get the job done for non-score pushers.

So many ppl get stuck waiting for a tank, I want to tank, but I don't get to tank (getting kicked). Very odd spot to be in.

pelle412

Yudo wrote: »

Many have given reasons why there is a lack of tanks or how to get more ppl to tank.
My two cents on this is that even those who WANT to tank do not get to tank. Let me explain further.

(First of all, not arguing against the meta.)
I tend to play a mix of sets like one meta set and one support set of choice that is off-meta. I even use light armor for tanking with HP around 26-28K. You can imagine the amount of "look it is a fake tank" I have been dealing with. I love to tank but I do not bother much because I have to link and explain my sets, explain my HP, and motivate my experience every..single..time!

The sad part is that I am most likely much more experienced, and although I say it myself, probably one of the best tanks you could get on average. I have tanked many non-DLC vet trials and HM with this setup. In short, I get the job done for non-score pushers.

So many ppl get stuck waiting for a tank, I want to tank, but I don't get to tank (getting kicked). Very odd spot to be in.

I think this is just odd. I've played this game for 7+ years as tank and ran easily over 2-3000 dungeon runs and what you describe above has never happened to me, not even once.

Aggrovious

Void Bash is cool with AOE combo. You can be a tank but you should also have some damage slotted or you will hate your life. Seeing DPS that do no damage kills tanking.

Elrond87

Yudo wrote: »

Is hard to get carried by your group as a tank, unlike some random DD or H that can just hide in the group.
Groups expect you to have experience and knowledge of mechanics in advance.
Groups expect you to have specific sets, with little flexibility.

Personally I enjoy tanking very much and have tanked pretty much everything.
The pressure to get into tanking new content though is oddly difficult sometimes.
On day 1, people were randomly grouping with anyone and had willingness to learn the new trial upon release.
Literally on day 2, people were selecting only those with experience and achievements.

If something could be done about that, we may see more tanks.

Yeah, I feel if I miss out on a new trial I'm less inclined to even bother with it everyone asks for achievement, I did lucent on 2nd day on hm, so now I can get in group easier, I missed out on cloudrest not even a vet achievement so no one wants me, i just gave up on it

Necrotech_Master

the problem with increasing rewards for the tank role, is that this would most likely exacerbate the "fake tank" problem

Jaimeh

It used to be, partly at least, because people didn't want to swap gear or toons if they were on a tank character and wanted to do damage for questing, and so on. And pre-armory days that was pretty annoying (even today, given how full the tank inventories tend to be because of all the different set-ups). However, the biggest reason doesn't have to do with the role itself (and it's not boring, at least on non-normal, which is true for all roles), but the fact that if you are tanking in a slow dps group, or groups that cannot handle mechanics, it can be incredibly frustrating and stressful (on healers as well). A lot of good dps players have tank toons, but would rather bring their dps toon to a random group, so that they have a guarantee of damage, than risk it by going in as a tank. If you want to entice more players to tank, then make groups better. Btw, there is a sort of reward already in the form of instant pop in the queues (DD queues take ages in comparison), so at least there's that.

Elendir2am

All I want to say to this topic was already written, so I will do just short recap:

• Special reward for tank role will lead to abuse from fake tanks.
• It is necessary that Tanks enjoy game out of trials and dungeons as well. It will get boring in time, if you can enjoy just such small part of game with your char.
• Low DPS DD make tanks life purgatory.
• Life of tanks are more hurt by skippers and other similar not team players.

I loved playing tank in past. This role reward your competence most of all roles. I felt like director of what were happening in dungeons. Choosing places where bosses and adds get burned. There were also many players who sent their thanks to me for how it all went.

I don't think that we need to do some special attraction for tank role. It would work better if what is making their life miserable get addressed.

MidniteOwl1913

allochthons wrote: »

Unless you're already in a solid, trusted group, learning to tank can be brutal.

I've given it a serious go 3 times. As in, I have golded out sets of Perf. Yoln, Perf. Saxh, Perf Pearlescent Ward, Crimson Oath, Powerful Assault (including an ice staff), all the monsters, all the mythics, and more. I've tanked vSS, vMoL, vKA, and was giving vRG/Bahsei a go the last time my attempt to become a serious tank failed.

I'm a good tank. I'm not an awesome tank. And unless you're an awesome tank, and can learn mechs on the 1st or 2nd try, you get booted from groups. Even dedicated progression groups. I've watched it happen time and time again. I've had it happen to me time and time again. And yet many of the awesome tanks I know are *exhausted.* I want to step up. I've tried to step up. The expectations and pressure are too much.

And now I'm afraid to try again. 90% of the most emotional pain I've had in ESO has been in relation to this.

Why would I put myself through that?

A good tank is a gift from the eight. Sorry you got treated that way. I run mostly normal dungeons on my healer and I fall down weeping with gratitude when I get an actual good tank. At this point any not fake tank feels like a gift. I hope you reconsider at some point...

o_Primate_o

Maybe better gear drops or guaranteed motif drop for the role that is in most need for a dungeon queue

Orbital78

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

Unless you're already in a solid, trusted group, learning to tank can be brutal.

I've given it a serious go 3 times. As in, I have golded out sets of Perf. Yoln, Perf. Saxh, Perf Pearlescent Ward, Crimson Oath, Powerful Assault (including an ice staff), all the monsters, all the mythics, and more. I've tanked vSS, vMoL, vKA, and was giving vRG/Bahsei a go the last time my attempt to become a serious tank failed.

I'm a good tank. I'm not an awesome tank. And unless you're an awesome tank, and can learn mechs on the 1st or 2nd try, you get booted from groups. Even dedicated progression groups. I've watched it happen time and time again. I've had it happen to me time and time again. And yet many of the awesome tanks I know are *exhausted.* I want to step up. I've tried to step up. The expectations and pressure are too much.

And now I'm afraid to try again. 90% of the most emotional pain I've had in ESO has been in relation to this.

Why would I put myself through that?

A good tank is a gift from the eight. Sorry you got treated that way. I run mostly normal dungeons on my healer and I fall down weeping with gratitude when I get an actual good tank. At this point any not fake tank feels like a gift. I hope you reconsider at some point...

The problem must have been the fake tanks not being decent players. Normals for the most part don't need full tanks. Many can be soloed by a decent dps. That is how I filled sets like Turning Tide.

I barely tank because it's boring and many trolls in the queue. Vet dps queue times aren't that bad either.

JaxontheUnfortunate

I used to tank but have stopped due to all of the above issues.

tsaescishoeshiner

1. Continue giving each class rewarding tanking skills
2. Making tanking ults more interesting than just group buffs that don't depend on your stats. Most tanks don't get use their ults to actually perform their role
3. Discourage fake tanks by increasing damage done to taunted bosses (IMO, if a tank is alive and taunting the boss, they're as real a tank as you need for most dungeons lol. Even for normal dungeons, I don't like a tank that doesn't taunt and sprints through everything)
4. Add a weekly mail reward for tanks who solo queue for vet random?
5. Create intro quests for DPS, tanking, and healing in the tutorial (not just the combat mechanics). Maybe it's the Undaunted tutorial
6. Replace Low Slash with a more rewarding or cool effect--like a channeled effect that parries the next blow and debuffs the target (so like blocking but much cooler). Maybe it could apply a DoT that procs your enchant. Anything else, Low Slash just provides a buff at the moment. It could at least be a conal knockdown, like a trip effect lol
7. Add a one-handed spear for tanks to use lol
8. Make a magic ward effect option for shields, like a Skyrim ward

Necrotech_Master

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

1. Continue giving each class rewarding tanking skills
2. Making tanking ults more interesting than just group buffs that don't depend on your stats. Most tanks don't get use their ults to actually perform their role
3. Discourage fake tanks by increasing damage done to taunted bosses (IMO, if a tank is alive and taunting the boss, they're as real a tank as you need for most dungeons lol. Even for normal dungeons, I don't like a tank that doesn't taunt and sprints through everything)
4. Add a weekly mail reward for tanks who solo queue for vet random?
5. Create intro quests for DPS, tanking, and healing in the tutorial (not just the combat mechanics). Maybe it's the Undaunted tutorial
6. Replace Low Slash with a more rewarding or cool effect--like a channeled effect that parries the next blow and debuffs the target (so like blocking but much cooler). Maybe it could apply a DoT that procs your enchant. Anything else, Low Slash just provides a buff at the moment. It could at least be a conal knockdown, like a trip effect lol
7. Add a one-handed spear for tanks to use lol
8. Make a magic ward effect option for shields, like a Skyrim ward

for number 6, i think you can do that kind of stuff with shield throw scribing ability

tsaescishoeshiner

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

1. Continue giving each class rewarding tanking skills
2. Making tanking ults more interesting than just group buffs that don't depend on your stats. Most tanks don't get use their ults to actually perform their role
3. Discourage fake tanks by increasing damage done to taunted bosses (IMO, if a tank is alive and taunting the boss, they're as real a tank as you need for most dungeons lol. Even for normal dungeons, I don't like a tank that doesn't taunt and sprints through everything)
4. Add a weekly mail reward for tanks who solo queue for vet random?
5. Create intro quests for DPS, tanking, and healing in the tutorial (not just the combat mechanics). Maybe it's the Undaunted tutorial
6. Replace Low Slash with a more rewarding or cool effect--like a channeled effect that parries the next blow and debuffs the target (so like blocking but much cooler). Maybe it could apply a DoT that procs your enchant. Anything else, Low Slash just provides a buff at the moment. It could at least be a conal knockdown, like a trip effect lol
7. Add a one-handed spear for tanks to use lol
8. Make a magic ward effect option for shields, like a Skyrim ward

for number 6, i think you can do that kind of stuff with shield throw scribing ability

I was thinking more of a channeled skill that stops when you're hit and deals a debuff or damage depending on how big the hit is, so you use it when you're anticipating a big attack sort of like an improved block. (Yes it's an idea from another MMO lol, it's still cool. Like Fatecarver or Shadowy Disguise but you block and retailiate on being hit instead of shooting a beam.)

Some Scribed abilities have a deflection script which is different, but I find Low Slash takes up space that could be used for something more engaging while still providing buffs or support debuffs that tanks like. Just an idea.

Necrotech_Master

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

1. Continue giving each class rewarding tanking skills
2. Making tanking ults more interesting than just group buffs that don't depend on your stats. Most tanks don't get use their ults to actually perform their role
3. Discourage fake tanks by increasing damage done to taunted bosses (IMO, if a tank is alive and taunting the boss, they're as real a tank as you need for most dungeons lol. Even for normal dungeons, I don't like a tank that doesn't taunt and sprints through everything)
4. Add a weekly mail reward for tanks who solo queue for vet random?
5. Create intro quests for DPS, tanking, and healing in the tutorial (not just the combat mechanics). Maybe it's the Undaunted tutorial
6. Replace Low Slash with a more rewarding or cool effect--like a channeled effect that parries the next blow and debuffs the target (so like blocking but much cooler). Maybe it could apply a DoT that procs your enchant. Anything else, Low Slash just provides a buff at the moment. It could at least be a conal knockdown, like a trip effect lol
7. Add a one-handed spear for tanks to use lol
8. Make a magic ward effect option for shields, like a Skyrim ward

for number 6, i think you can do that kind of stuff with shield throw scribing ability

I was thinking more of a channeled skill that stops when you're hit and deals a debuff or damage depending on how big the hit is, so you use it when you're anticipating a big attack sort of like an improved block. (Yes it's an idea from another MMO lol, it's still cool. Like Fatecarver or Shadowy Disguise but you block and retailiate on being hit instead of shooting a beam.)

Some Scribed abilities have a deflection script which is different, but I find Low Slash takes up space that could be used for something more engaging while still providing buffs or support debuffs that tanks like. Just an idea.

well with the shield throw you can add functionality to it

if you want CC you could add knockback, you could make it taunt, or pull

signature scripts you could do the deflect, or a class mastery depending on class,

affix you can do a self buff, or a debuff (heroism, or maim, or one of the other possible buffs/debuffs)

so you could make the skill more flexible to meet your needs over low slash (not to mention that shield throw is ranged)