I used to love this game but after a year away.....

Casdha

I know it goes without saying but it is my own fault for taking a year break from ESO, that said I've found that with all of the changes I've completely forgotten how to play this game. I earned my trophies every time when it first started. ( not even sure they have them anymore )

I'm sure it is a combination of things but Card changes, Rule changes, Decks I can't complete due to low population in areas to earn fragments and the willingness to slog it out and therefore I can't practice with them to learn how they work, along with just the time away, I'm finding it a struggle to just pick up the basics again.

I tried my first daily the other day and I had to play against novice NPCs just to get through the thing, ain't no way I'm joining a live match like this much less a ranked one.

If any quest in this game deserves an option to reset the tutorial and start from scratch it would be this one (not sure this would help me at this point though). I really did like this game when it came out but it is just getting to much to keep up with especially when you are coming in to it cold.

I guess I could try and take an alt and start from scratch but....... Anyways, just thought I'd offer my thoughts on how time away may affect some players like myself. I'm not sure if I will ever get back to playing this again like I use too.

sayswhoto

Casdha wrote: »

I know it goes without saying but it is my own fault for taking a year break from ESO, that said I've found that with all of the changes I've completely forgotten how to play this game. I earned my trophies every time when it first started. ( not even sure they have them anymore )

The trophies are still here. You get them every time you climb your way to ranked.

Casdha wrote: »

I'm sure it is a combination of things but Card changes, Rule changes, Decks I can't complete due to low population in areas to earn fragments and the willingness to slog it out and therefore I can't practice with them to learn how they work, along with just the time away, I'm finding it a struggle to just pick up the basics again.

I don't find it that difficult to keep up with the new decks, although you might lose a few games to a strategy you are not familiar with. If there is one good thing about ToT, it's that access to chosen decks is the same for everyone in a match. I don't have Mora or St. Alessia, but I get by.

Casdha wrote: »

If any quest in this game deserves an option to reset the tutorial and start from scratch it would be this one (not sure this would help me at this point though). I really did like this game when it came out but it is just getting to much to keep up with especially when you are coming in to it cold.

There might be some YouTube tutorials, or you can watch a few games there to refresh your memory.

Casdha

@sayswhoto

I appreciate the comments but it is more of a feeling and not having the willingness to do it again than it is me being capable of learning it again.

A little perspective: The thing I hate the most about ESO being an MMO is the fact that the rules change all of the time. It's one of the things that keep driving me away. Nostalgia is what keeps bringing me back.

You heard the old saying You can't teach an old dog new tricks,,,, well it's not because they can't learn, it's because they don't want too.

Thysbe

I played a lot with the inital High Isle Decks - even made it in the top 10 once

then I took a break from ToT like the OP - by now I would have to learn 4 new decks for just doing a ToT game once in a while

that´s to much of an effort for a casual ToT player and thats why I shy away from random PvP ToT now and only play on private invitations for fun with the old decks

Casdha wrote: »

@sayswhoto
You heard the old saying You can't teach an old dog new tricks,,,, well it's not because they can't learn, it's because they don't want too.

maybe a Vanilla Mode would help us old dogs - I can perfrectly understand the desire for regular ToT players to get new Decks and have new Strategies but for someone dippping in now and then it can become too much of a threshold

Casdha

Thysbe wrote: »

I played a lot with the inital High Isle Decks - even made it in the top 10 once

then I took a break from ToT like the OP - by now I would have to learn 4 new decks for just doing a ToT game once in a while

that´s to much of an effort for a casual ToT player and thats why I shy away from random PvP ToT now and only play on private invitations for fun with the old decks

Casdha wrote: »

@sayswhoto
You heard the old saying You can't teach an old dog new tricks,,,, well it's not because they can't learn, it's because they don't want too.

maybe a Vanilla Mode would help us old dogs - I can perfrectly understand the desire for regular ToT players to get new Decks and have new Strategies but for someone dippping in now and then it can become too much of a threshold

Casdha wrote: »

You heard the old saying You can't teach an old dog new tricks,,,, well it's not because they can't learn, it's because they don't want too.

Reading that again now, I should have added something like this at the end:
"at least not over and over and over and........"

Muizer

Unless we get competitions where decks can only be chosen from those both players have, the competitive player population can only really go down with each deck ZOS add.

Casdha

Muizer wrote: »

Unless we get competitions where decks can only be chosen from those both players have, the competitive player population can only really go down with each deck ZOS add.

I would also add (for myself anyways) that it is almost impossible to go back to previous chapters to farm some of the fragments because the random population has moved on to greener pastures (newer chapters have come out). Most of the fragments I'm missing are from world bosses and the like and it becomes too much of a headache to backtrack and try to collect them.

SeaGtGruff

Casdha wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Unless we get competitions where decks can only be chosen from those both players have, the competitive player population can only really go down with each deck ZOS add.

I would also add (for myself anyways) that it is almost impossible to go back to previous chapters to farm some of the fragments because the random population has moved on to greener pastures (newer chapters have come out). Most of the fragments I'm missing are from world bosses and the like and it becomes too much of a headache to backtrack and try to collect them.

I've been playing ToT nonstop since it was first introduced, and so far I've collected only two of the additional decks-- Red Eagle and Hermaeus Mora. Despite that, I've been able to play with and learn all of the patrons and their decks by playing against the Expert NPCs every day. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to do the same. They might not make the same kinds of decisions during a ToT match as another player would, but you can still get familiar with each patron and the cards in their decks.

BlackRaidho

This game is easy. 80% based on RNG. I make quick games between others activities.

Take patron who help to determine a quick win or lose : Pelin, Red Eagle... Take your chance. If your opponent got good cards and you got nothing around turn 3, just leave and play it again 10 minutes later.

Whatever the scoreboard. I manage to be Rubedite somehow.

Worst patrons are the ones who makes games longer like Rhajin, Almalexia, Saint-Alessia... Games are longer but still RNG dependant so why losing time...

freespirit

Op if you just want to play a few hands with decks you know, it can be a bit of a pain but do NPC dailies and if your opponent picks decks you are not familiar with just concede and get them to pick again!

I often play a few hands before I log off at night and I frequently reset the NPC because I cannot be bothered with certain decks at that time of night.

As it's just NPC's conceding has no negative effect nor is there any time penalty(other than the time involved with the extra clicks). 🙂

Casdha

Thanks for your feedback.

Question as I honestly don't know.

In real life has there ever been a card game where they reprinted the same card in a new revision with different rules and stats on the card and then made the old version of the card illegal to use?

(I'm not talking about just artwork or collector reprints)

My problem is not just the new decks but it is the ever changing landscape of the game.

The biggest reason I enjoyed the game was you had to play to upgrade cards to finish decks, but you can't do that with out the starter deck. I'm more of a collector than an outright player.

Personofsecrets

Casdha wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback.

Question as I honestly don't know.

In real life has there ever been a card game where they reprinted the same card in a new revision with different rules and stats on the card and then made the old version of the card illegal to use?

(I'm not talking about just artwork or collector reprints)

My problem is not just the new decks but it is the ever changing landscape of the game.

The biggest reason I enjoyed the game was you had to play to upgrade cards to finish decks, but you can't do that with out the starter deck. I'm more of a collector than an outright player.

Yes, what you are discussing has happened in different ways. In the physical card gaming space, these changes are typically known as erratas.

For example, Hostage Taker from Magic the Gathering's Ixalan set had a functional errata on it's day of release. Originally, it could target itself with it's own effect which could cause some gameplay loops. This type of card behavior wasn't intended, so it was changed right away.

Usually, physical card games don't have errata that are meant to change the cards power level, but you may like reading about Magic the Gathering's Time Vault to see one such example. And that card changed a couple of times.

Yu-Gi-Oh! has also had some power level based errata that I know about.

Ring of Destruction was one such card that went from being a simple high utility destruction card that could also end the game to being an overly complex that lost functionality.

Sinister Serpent is another card that was good, but changed in a way that caused it to lose much of it's functionality. I really don't understand this one.

Dark Magician of Chaos was caused to have it's spell retrieving ability moved to happen at the end phase rather than on summon. Again, within the larger context of how broken Yu-Gi-Oh! is now, this change doesn't really make sense.

Imperial Order had it's cost greatly increased and the card no longer is able to be arbitrarily not paid for. So alot of the advantage that it offered has dwindled.

Honestly, alot of these Yu-Gi-Oh! changes felt like personal attacks. I certainly understand not wanting things to change. That said, for whatever reason, change finds a way to happen whether it is welcome or not.

And keep in mind, I'm just discussing about physical card games in the above writing. This is also a fraction of what I know. Let's not even get into Naruto's APW Third Hokage for example. I'm sure that there are very many examples in all kinds of games that I don't even know. But let's discuss the digital card gaming world.

In the digital world, it is pretty standard for cards to change. The one thing the digital games really can do well is update cards and keep players informed about those updates. And if your issue is just a changing landscape, again, change happens no matter what we do to resist. Even if the cards were not changed, the game itself could still change if new cards were released. The game could even change drastically if players just decided to start playing things differently one day. An example might be if people started to favor different Patrons.

And as far as upgrading decks goes, you shouldn't have anything preventing you from upgrading your decks. Even when the cards change, nothing is being taken away from you.

BlackRaidho

freespirit wrote: »

Op if you just want to play a few hands with decks you know, it can be a bit of a pain but do NPC dailies and if your opponent picks decks you are not familiar with just concede and get them to pick again!

I often play a few hands before I log off at night and I frequently reset the NPC because I cannot be bothered with certain decks at that time of night.

As it's just NPC's conceding has no negative effect nor is there any time penalty(other than the time involved with the extra clicks). 🙂

I only play my daily for gold reward and XP. Whatever NPCs. Even the expert one is bas as possible with terrible decisions all the time. Like : WHY does he pick black sacrament at the end of his turn with no coin left after and without any agent to kill ?! Its boring.

And yes some patrons with NPCs are annoying. On top : Ork.

Casdha

@Personofsecrets

That was a very informative answer, thank you!

I guess it just boils down to I only play this game so much and keeping up on this aspect of it is of a lower priority than other things I like to do the most which is story content and collecting what I can.

Even with the collecting aspect of it I faced the fact a long time ago I can't even collect every motif in this game, even though I did keep up for a while.

I may give Tot the occasional go but don't think I will ever enjoy it like I did when it was new.

ValueDrift

The long list of decks, which a new player won't even have until a lengthy grind, and even that only if they have access to all DLC, definitely creates an information overload. Having to familiarize yourself which so many different decks and how they play, without even having access to them so you can learn them one at a time, is quite the task.

I will put up with that high barrier to entry and learn all the decks because I like card games, but I expect this will drive away most people who try it, which doesn't bode well for the longevity of the game.

There's a simple solution: limit the number of available decks in ranked based on ranks, so new players can get the original new player experience of a reasonable number of decks to deal with, and that number goes up as they rank up. It's not ideal, but it's better than driving away most people who give the game a try.