Do you think things have gotten too Loud and Flashy?

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Compensation would be justified if the items were not working as intended, but not just because some others choose to avoid loud and flashy effects.

The item isn't working as intended. The point is to show it off. If you can't do that then the item is not working as intended.

The point should be to enjoy it themselves. And they can still show it off to all the players that don't choose to block those effects, anyway. But no one can expect everyone to participate in something they find annoying, or be compensated because every other player doesn't like their mount or recall.

They aren't being compensated because others don't like it. They are being compensated because the item changed from the way it worked when they bought it. Currently, it does make noise for everyone around them. I don't care about that personally. But others do.

SilverBride

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Compensation would be justified if the items were not working as intended, but not just because some others choose to avoid loud and flashy effects.

The item isn't working as intended. The point is to show it off. If you can't do that then the item is not working as intended.

The point should be to enjoy it themselves. And they can still show it off to all the players that don't choose to block those effects, anyway. But no one can expect everyone to participate in something they find annoying, or be compensated because every other player doesn't like their mount or recall.

They aren't being compensated because others don't like it. They are being compensated because the item changed from the way it worked when they bought it. Currently, it does make noise for everyone around them. I don't care about that personally. But others do.

The item doesn't change if less players see or hear it. There is no cause for compensation and my view is not going to change, so let's just leave it at that.

Aendruu

Yes

LaintalAy wrote: »

My FPS is so low at the best of times, people mounting up on their asplody mounts generally cause my game to stutter.

Absolutely! Although my game tends to freeze completely for a time rather than stutter, so I now avoid logging in during peak times.

Rowjoh

SilverBride wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

at the end of the day, kids and teenagers like cutie flashy glowie stuff, discerning more mature gamers not so much.

ESO is rated M17+ so that is the audience that content should be designed for.

It used to be rated 18. ESO has been dumbed down so much that it is now M17 - suitable for 10 year olds!

Flashy googly eyed, cartoony stuff rules I'm afraid.

ToRelax

Yes

AzuraFan wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

If ZOS were to provide a setting that prevented players from seeing the flash, that would diminish the value of the item for some players.

Can I just say that if a player wanted an option to turn off flashy effects, it means these effects produce a negative effect on them in the first place. They don't like them, and would never admire the player who has them. Let others admire the flashy animations and don't make us suffer from the flashiness, that's all we're saying.

Right, and I've said I'm fine with a setting, but players who bought those items would have to be compensated. Some players wouldn't have bought the items if they knew the flashy effects wouldn't be visible to other players.

I'm not against having a setting to turn the effects off. I just don't see it happening, but I could be wrong.

You are seriously saying "some players" wouldn't have bought items if they didn't also specifically be visible to those bothered or even physically hurt by them? Who are these spiteful individuals?

EdjeSwift

No

Highly relevant video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCKdu2FV5QY

Just be like the other players in this skit and walk on by. Let players show off their shinies, as I said previously, some people like to flex their stuff and they specifically pay for certain things to show off.

TaSheen

Other

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Highly relevant video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCKdu2FV5QY

Just be like the other players in this skit and walk on by. Let players show off their shinies, as I said previously, some people like to flex their stuff and they specifically pay for certain things to show off.

This has been my impression in the other two MMOs I've played (WoW and RIFT). There were always people with fancier stuff than me, sitting mounted in a crowd, or standing on mailboxes "flexing" to show off gear. I knew a couple of them in WoW (they were members of my friend's pvp guild though not too active), and they were very blunt that they were gearing up fancy through transmog to show off. One of them had that mount, Ashes of Al'ar, and his armor was all tricked out to match.

I don't know if it happens a lot in ESO because I just no longer pay any attention to that sort of thing.

SilverBride

Yes

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Just be like the other players in this skit and walk on by. Let players show off their shinies, as I said previously, some people like to flex their stuff and they specifically pay for certain things to show off.

Why should players that are negatively affected by loud noises and bright flashes of light have to tolerate it so others can show off?

I pay a sub every month to play the way I enjoy, not to be forced into to someone else's idea of what is fun.

Another thing to consider... what is the point of showing off if the reaction it generates is negative?

CrashTest

Yes

Imagine thinking it's ok to be compensated because someone doesn't want to see your blinding effects. I seriously can't believe that's even an argument.

If you like explosions and flashes in your face, fine. Buy them all up and show off to everyone else who likes that too, but if you think we're all looking at you in admiration and envy as you explode and flash in our faces, then you're horribly, horribly mistaken.

spartaxoxo

No

ToRelax wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

If ZOS were to provide a setting that prevented players from seeing the flash, that would diminish the value of the item for some players.

Can I just say that if a player wanted an option to turn off flashy effects, it means these effects produce a negative effect on them in the first place. They don't like them, and would never admire the player who has them. Let others admire the flashy animations and don't make us suffer from the flashiness, that's all we're saying.

Right, and I've said I'm fine with a setting, but players who bought those items would have to be compensated. Some players wouldn't have bought the items if they knew the flashy effects wouldn't be visible to other players.

I'm not against having a setting to turn the effects off. I just don't see it happening, but I could be wrong.

You are seriously saying "some players" wouldn't have bought items if they didn't also specifically be visible to those bothered or even physically hurt by them? Who are these spiteful individuals?

It's not that they are trying to hurt others. It's that they like the visibility is set to others so they can show off. I doubt they're even thinking of that.

spartaxoxo

No

CrashTest wrote: »

Imagine thinking it's ok to be compensated because someone doesn't want to see your blinding effects. I seriously can't believe that's even an argument.

If you like explosions and flashes in your face, fine. Buy them all up and show off to everyone else who likes that too, but if you think we're all looking at you in admiration and envy as you explode and flash in our faces, then you're horribly, horribly mistaken.

It's always okay for companies to refund items if they change them after point of sale. I think it's pretty spiteful to deny someone a refund for their item changing, personally. Like if you don't have to see it, then what do you care whether or not the other person receives a refund? ZOS has a policy that cosmetic items will not change after you buy them. If they are changed, for any reason, they should offer refunds. People buy these things with the understanding that cosmetics don't change, and that they will always work the way they were sold to work.

This no refund arguments feels like it's not enough to get a toggle so nobody don't have to see it, but that there's a desire to punish players for liking something flashy tbh.

100% of people around you see it > 90% of people see it (or whatever the number is) is factually a change from when they bought it.

SilverBride

Yes

The item wouldn't be changed. It would still be just as flashy and loud as before.

The only thing a toggle would do would make it so only those that want to see these effects and enjoy them would. That is a win win to me because the player could still show off to others that also appreciate them, and those that don't won't be harboring bad feelings about their play being disrupted.

spartaxoxo

No

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

ToRelax

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

I did engage with it. You even quoted me. When it goes beyond showing off to those who like seeing such effects to intentionally bothering other players it becomes worthy of nothing but scorn, and certainly not compensation. If that isn't someone's motivation, then they have nothing to lose.

spartaxoxo

No

ToRelax wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

I did engage with it. You even quoted me. When it goes beyond showing off to those who like seeing such effects to intentionally bothering other players it becomes worthy of nothing but scorn, and certainly not compensation. If that isn't someone's motivation, then they have nothing to lose.

That last reply wasn't to you. It was to the ones not doing so. That's why I quoted you in a separate reply.

I actually support a toggle. I just also think anyone who bought it because it's visible to everyone deserves a refund. It's irrelevant what I think of their motivations for buying it or why ZOS changed it. Consumers purchase cosmetics with the understanding they won't change outside of bug fixes/balance fixes. That's their explicitly stated policy. So anytime they make a change outside of those reasons, regardless of what that change is or why, should result in a refund for anyone unhappy with the change.

Other people think your outfit is ugly so you can't show off anymore is not a bug fix. It's not a change because of a skill being balanced. It's a change to make other players happy. I support that change. But, then I also support a refund. It's outside of the reasons they stated.

AzuraFan

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This no refund arguments feels like it's not enough to get a toggle so nobody don't have to see it, but that there's a desire to punish players for liking something flashy tbh.

That's what it feels like to me too. I'm surprised that anyone is arguing against it, because it wouldn't affect them in the least, so one does have to wonder what's behind it. Anyway, it's beating a dead horse at this point. Nobody's going to change anybody's minds here.

SilverBride

Yes

If ZoS decides to implement a toggle it will be up to them whether or not they see a reason for a refund to be issued. But historically refunds are given for items that are returned, so most likely the purchase would be reversed in that case.

M0ntie

Yes

Mostly I don’t care but some new ones are intrusive - like the one that sounds like a dolmen starting up.

heavenelva

Yes

A viewer watching my trial livestream said it felt like entering a nightclub.

spartaxoxo

No

SilverBride wrote: »

If ZoS decides to implement a toggle it will be up to them whether or not they see a reason for a refund to be issued. But historically refunds are given for items that are returned, so most likely the purchase would be reversed in that case.

Yes. Traditionally when they do that, they'd remove the item from your account as well. So, the person would have to return the mount and then they'd get their money back or whatever relevant in-game currency if that's what they spent instead.

BretonMage

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

TaSheen

Other

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

"Impressive" or "admired" requires the ability to be "visible" in order for others to feel the "impression" or "admiration". Regardless, on ZOS's side, the whole point is for people to pay for the flashbangs in order to enable "impression and admiration".

spartaxoxo

No

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

ToRelax

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

No one is forbidding Dale to wear perfume, some of their colleagues just choose not to smell.

IrelandTweaky

Yes

Yes. Very distracting and not conducive to immersion. Hearing the dolmen sound was useful in notifying those nearby of a world event. Sometimes meant I'd briefly postpone a current mission to go clear the dolmen. Now it means someone bought a fancy item. The pink bubblegum recal is annoying, too.

BretonMage

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

100% visibility is factually less more than 90% visibility. The item currently has 100% visibility. Any number lower than that is less.

Refusal to engage with why someone bought it doesn't change it. Y'all don't buy things to show off. Others do.

Edit: math error

I disagree that these people buy the cosmetics to be visible. I believe they buy them to be impressive or admired. Furthermore, if they wanted to cause physical discomfort with their cosmetics, they would be trolling anyway and not entitled to any compensation.

As a RL example, I wear perfume to smell nice to others, but there are some people with allergies to perfume. I think it would be unreasonable to expect those people to continue smelling said perfume if it causes them discomfort, and if there was a button irl to avoid this I'd love it, not expect them to suffer through it.

First of all, they can't impress people or have their cosmetic admired if nobody else can see it. That's just not how showing things off works, on a physical level. I have literally met people who buy cosmetics, in part, to show off. There are factually show offs that exist in this world.

I'm not saying there should be no button. Let's use your perfume analogy. Someone goes to JCPenney to buy perfume, because in this analogy, perfume can be refunded.

Dale wears perfume to an office. They want to smell nice to people at work. The boss tells them they can't wear it anymore. The person returns the perfume and gets a refund. The coworkers not wanting to smell perfume is reasonable.

The coworkers then go to JCPenny and do everything in their power to convince JCPennny not to give this person a refund. They literally tell the manager that Dale wore perfume they didn't like, so they better not give it to him.

Saying that JCPenney better not give him a refund for his perfume is spiteful.

Dale is already not wearing it to the office. The coworkers already don't have to smell. There is zero reason they should have a problem with Dale refunding a product he cannot use for the purpose he bought it.

I'm getting a bit confused; perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I thought the toggle was for people with sensitivities to use on their end to reduce their own exposure to these effects. So the effects would only be invisible to those who toggle them off, and others can continue enjoying and admiring the flashy effects. Like what they have done with pets near crafting stations; visible to all except those who toggle them off. There would be no loss of potential admiration (people who dislike these effects would not admire them anyway).

I don't know if it's even possible to obscure special animations individually. And if it could only be applied globally, of course I would support compensation for a change on that scale, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that. I do know a lot of people love showing off their cosmetics.

ElvenOverlord

Other

Don’t really care or pay attention to it so I haven’t really noticed tbh

Amottica

No

SilverBride wrote: »

One of the things I loved most when I came to ESO was how much more "realistic" it seemed, especially when compared to the very cartoony character models of WoW. But there has been a trend toward more loud and flashy effects and I find it really ruining the ambience for me.

I wish at the very least we could get a toggle to not be subjected to hearing "dolmens" and other flashy effects every time we are in town.

As I understand it, Dolmens have been in the game since its release, and little has changed with their appearance. So, it is not clear what the complaint is about if things were fine when the game was released.

TaSheen

Other

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One of the things I loved most when I came to ESO was how much more "realistic" it seemed, especially when compared to the very cartoony character models of WoW. But there has been a trend toward more loud and flashy effects and I find it really ruining the ambience for me.

I wish at the very least we could get a toggle to not be subjected to hearing "dolmens" and other flashy effects every time we are in town.

As I understand it, Dolmens have been in the game since its release, and little has changed with their appearance. So, it is not clear what the complaint is about if things were fine when the game was released.

The poster is specifically complaining about the new "dolmen" recall....

SilverBride

Yes

TaSheen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

One of the things I loved most when I came to ESO was how much more "realistic" it seemed, especially when compared to the very cartoony character models of WoW. But there has been a trend toward more loud and flashy effects and I find it really ruining the ambience for me.

I wish at the very least we could get a toggle to not be subjected to hearing "dolmens" and other flashy effects every time we are in town.

As I understand it, Dolmens have been in the game since its release, and little has changed with their appearance. So, it is not clear what the complaint is about if things were fine when the game was released.

The poster is specifically complaining about the new "dolmen" recall....

That is correct. This recall makes the same sound of a dolmen starting which is very distracting in town especially.