Farming becoming more and more game objective for ESO?

AnduinTryggva · June 19

I understand that farming is an essential part of a MMORG and as such accept that it is also part of ESO.

However, I have the strong impression that since one or two DLCs keep the player farming is now the main purpose of many things introduced to the game, either as new items, new systems or new versions of items.

Before that, farming was an essential part of the game with the purpose to be in the position to PLAY certain content, e.g. like farming good gear in order to complete a difficult trial in vet mode or even vet hard mode.

Now it looks that we just do farming in order to farm other things. I wonder where we then actually PLAY content?

Syldras · June 19

Well, they said they would focus on "repeatable content" because players wanted "more to do"... It's no surprise, and another reminder to be precise when wishing for something.

TaSheen · June 19

Syldras wrote: »

Well, they said they would focus on "repeatable content" because players wanted "more to do"... It's no surprise, and another reminder to be precise when wishing for something.

Yes.... pretty much. I won't be killing myself farming for ink - the questline is great, but I'm not much interested in the actual scribing, just like I wasn't really interested in spellcrafting where it was available in previous games.

[Hmmm. I *think* that means I'm just not much on magic and spellcasters in these games....]

Syldras · June 19

TaSheen wrote: »

I won't be killing myself farming for ink - the questline is great, but I'm not much interested in the actual scribing

Me neither, I just collect what drops on the way. Also, I see no need to hurry as I can do the usual content I'm interested in with the old skills without problems - plus, I have the impression that in situations where better abilities could make things easier (like soloing group dungeons), the new ones don't really make a real difference, from what I read. So it's mainly cosmetics, it seems. As that, I might look into it later, but I don't see why I would need it now.

xylena_lazarow · June 19

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I understand that farming is an essential part of a MMORG

It's not though. It's outdated 00s game design that catered to 20yo no lifers, the decline of the entire MMO genre is pretty clear at this point. I don't come here to "farm" chores, I come here to PvP and hang out with my friends. I give zero hoots about "rewards" or grinding, I just wanna PvP with the new stuff that I paid $40 for.

GooGa592 · June 19

I have never heard any player say they wanted more grinding for anything, gear, materials or anything else. I don't recall seeing anyone ever post on this forum that they wanted "more repeatable content" either. What I hear and read is that players want less grinding and being forced to repeat content more than a few times. So I was confused when I read that statement from ZOS. It seems more like this is what the devs want, not what the players want. The players want new, fresh content to PvE in, and a stable, higher population PvP experience.

ivelbob · June 19

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Now it looks that we just do farming in order to farm other things. I wonder where we then actually PLAY content?

The balance has swung too far towards making everything a grind. It feels like ESO no longer respects my time. Why should I be excited to log in, when the game is just a new list of CHORES that developers have created for me?

The expansion's hallmark new gameplay feature should be so exciting that it brings back players old and new. Instead, it's clouded with negativity because it's gated behind another tedious series of grinds.

CHORES should not be the impression that players have of your game.

GuuMoonRyoung · June 19

GooGa592 wrote: »

I have never heard any player say they wanted more grinding for anything, gear, materials or anything else. I don't recall seeing anyone ever post on this forum that they wanted "more repeatable content" either. What I hear and read is that players want less grinding and being forced to repeat content more than a few times. So I was confused when I read that statement from ZOS. It seems more like this is what the devs want, not what the players want. The players want new, fresh content to PvE in, and a stable, higher population PvP experience.

People said they want more things to do, and we don't want the same thing to do more times repeatedly. So I agree with your post.

Desiato · June 19

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

However, I have the strong impression that since one or two DLCs keep the player farming is now the main purpose of many things introduced to the game, either as new items, new systems or new versions of items.

Which things are you referring to?

Overall, ESO is less grindy than it used to be. There's an ebb and flow to the time we spend on peripheral tasks as new things are introduced and as we explore different aspects of the game. Many of them are optional and can be pursued at a pace of our choosing.

For example, when I started exploring trials, I had to prepare by expanding set collections and by earning more transmute crystals. This doesn't bother me for the same reason it didn't bother me when I play any RPG. Progression is a feature. Planning my approach and executing the plan is gameplay. At the end of the day, what's fun for me is working with other players to do these things.

With all that said, I feel for PVP focused players. There should be more avenues of progression within PVP gameplay. It's difficult for a PVP focused player to actually spend their time PVPIng because there's so much PVE overhead. IMO, it's a big reason ESO PVP isn't more popular.

Quethrosar · June 19

this expansion was far less grindy then high isle or necrom i think. had all scribing stuff collected in a few days. antiquity leads dropped on 1st attempt for most. i felt like they handed us the stuff that used to be grindy in this expansion. ink is annoying i got the black force shock now so all good.

what i hate about grind is the equipment stuff, doing a trial until you get a piece you need because it doesn't drop for 30 runs.
i feel like we should be asked what we want at end of the trial.

tsaescishoeshiner · June 19

I play ESO specifically because it's so un-grindy. Of course, some droprates and sources could be improved (like ink).

What is it that you're feeling forced into farming endlessly?

SeaGtGruff · June 19

I'm not sure whether I understand what you mean by "farming," as you seem to be talking about grinding for desired drops as opposed to harvesting resource nodes (which is what I think of when I hear "farming").

I think the devs have actually tried to reduce the amount of grinding needed by adding curated drops.

As far as adding more things to different types of content, such as adding leads for mythic fragments to boss drops, I think they're just trying to interconnect things together in the game, such that new content in new zones includes reasons to keep visiting old content in old zones, and to try to encourage players to engage in a variety of content.

I think it all boils down to the choices that you make in your gameplay. I choose to not grind, except very occasionally and in moderation, because there are too many other things in the game that I'd rather spend my time on, so grinding doesn't really seem like a problem to me since I'm not allowing it to be a problem for me.

Recent · June 19

At first when I started the gold road expansion I was compelled to grind excessively but I then decided that I don't need to obsess about collecting every script etc.
1. I do dailies but I mix them up a bit so I'm not doing the same dailies everyday.
2. I do dungeons some days and survey maps then maybe a couple of dailies that day
3. I allow myself to explore and do some fun quests

At this time I can't see myself scribing even though I have done the questline, do the dailies for scripts etc....I'm waiting till scribing evolves a bit moving forwards.

CGPsaint · June 19

TaSheen wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Well, they said they would focus on "repeatable content" because players wanted "more to do"... It's no surprise, and another reminder to be precise when wishing for something.

Yes.... pretty much. I won't be killing myself farming for ink - the questline is great, but I'm not much interested in the actual scribing, just like I wasn't really interested in spellcrafting where it was available in previous games.

[Hmmm. I *think* that means I'm just not much on magic and spellcasters in these games....]

I've gotten 3 ink so far. I plan on finishing the Scribing quest line for the achievements and then hanging it up until ink is readily available. (Someone in one of my guilds was selling ink at 75K each and saying that was the guildmate rate. Lol.)

TaSheen · June 19

During the weekly endeavor (harvest 100 resource nodes) I got 2 ink on the character who has completed the whole quest line (and that was 2 from a water node); on a character who's only done the Indrik and Netch quests so far, I got 2 more and not sure what sort of node it was from though it was also during her running the weekly endeavor.

Right now, I'm just running all my mains through the Indrik and Netch questlines and then going after the weekly endeavor. The SoE are far more valuable to me at this point....

Nathrai · June 19

I actually want farming in ESO!!!

... in the sense of jotting down a field in one of my housings, planting something, taking care of it and reaping results a couple of days later. :P

But, yeah - farming is increasingly getting more boring in ESO. At first it was fun to farm mats and fragments, back when you could do a farm run or two each week and spend the rest of your time actually playing the game.

alpha_synuclein · June 20

On one hand you do have a point.

On the other, between the stickerbook, transmutation and curated drops the grind was reduced significantly in recent years. Drop rates for leads seem to improve as well.

And lets not forget that there are quite a bunch of people in eso that voluntarily do stuff like their crafting writs on 10+ characters on a daily basis

So to each their own I guess.

Nathrai · June 20

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

On the other, between the stickerbook, transmutation and curated drops the grind was reduced significantly in recent years. Drop rates for leads seem to improve as well.

That's one thing I don't understand. ZOS realised that with the constant addition of new content, people started to get overwhelmed with the grind and implemented systems to counter the problem.

Just to now completely ignore those systems and put the grind on steroids?

For example, I personally don't have a problem with the scripts not being account-wide ... but it still begs the question, why no stickerbook for them?

Or mats, they finally fixed the artificial scarcity of jewelry mats and other rare stuff, just to re-introduce the very same problem with ink?

shadyjane62 · June 20

Deleted.

divnyi · June 20

Syldras wrote: »

Well, they said they would focus on "repeatable content" because players wanted "more to do"... It's no surprise, and another reminder to be precise when wishing for something.

I mean Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Hollows is a good replayable content, it's "something to do". Farming nodes for ink isn't.

alpha_synuclein · June 20

Nathrai wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

On the other, between the stickerbook, transmutation and curated drops the grind was reduced significantly in recent years. Drop rates for leads seem to improve as well.

That's one thing I don't understand. ZOS realised that with the constant addition of new content, people started to get overwhelmed with the grind and implemented systems to counter the problem.

Just to now completely ignore those systems and put the grind on steroids?

For example, I personally don't have a problem with the scripts not being account-wide ... but it still begs the question, why no stickerbook for them?

Or mats, they finally fixed the artificial scarcity of jewelry mats and other rare stuff, just to re-introduce the very same problem with ink?

Baffles me as well...
Maybe lowering the grind lowered the playtime numbers?
Or just they have different teams responsible and don't communicate well?
I have no idea

SeaGtGruff · June 20

Recent wrote: »

At first when I started the gold road expansion I was compelled to grind excessively but I then decided that I don't need to obsess about collecting every script etc.
1. I do dailies but I mix them up a bit so I'm not doing the same dailies everyday.
2. I do dungeons some days and survey maps then maybe a couple of dailies that day
3. I allow myself to explore and do some fun quests

At this time I can't see myself scribing even though I have done the questline, do the dailies for scripts etc....I'm waiting till scribing evolves a bit moving forwards.

It actually doesn't take very long to collect all of the scripts that give you the "mastery" achievements, although I haven't yet collected the nine scripts which come from the various Mages Guilds (which aren't part of the "mastery" achievements).

Getting the class mastery is taking much longer, but I'm in no rush.

zaria · June 20

The grind is real.

Sync01 · June 20

As someone who does a lot of PvE I don't feel like I farm/grind more now than before, since I was already farming/grinding for mats/gold/transmutes needed for trials. However, I do think that we've seen an increase for casual players.

It might not be as much of an increase as it comes across though. We had the 10-year event where the low drop rates for the style pages meant a lot of players had to spend significantly more time on grinding than before to get cosmetic items, and maybe they didn't even get a single one. Now we have the ink which also has a low drop rate while simultaneously requiring a much higher number for the achievement than we've seen before.
I think that it's not just the farming of the pages & ink on their own, but that they've come after one another that makes it feel like there's now so much more farming all of a sudden.

On that note I do think that zos has missed the sweet spot for grinding with having too low drop rates for some things. Even if you want players to spend a lot of time doing it, players need to feel like they're getting somewhere. For example having an achievement where you needed to farm 10 of X, and X drops on average 1 time per hour vs having an achivement where you need to farm 60 of X, and X drops on average every 10 minutes the later is going to feel much more satisfying despite it taking just as long.

LanteanPegasus · June 20

Just an example for those who ask where the impression of more grind comes from:

old public dungeon special pets:
Dwaven Theodolite - 7 parts
Big Eared Ginger Kitten - 7 parts
Mummified Alfiq - 10 parts

new public dungeon special pets:
Coral Haj Mota - 50 parts
Graht-Oak Squirrel - 50 parts

Once it was two things per chapter, with 7 to 10 parts each, that were tradeable between players.
Now it is one thing that needs 50 parts that you have to grind all by yourself.

Nathrai · June 20

divnyi wrote: »

I mean Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Hollows is a good replayable content, it's "something to do". Farming nodes for ink isn't.

This. I had lots of fun farming Public Dungeons back in the days, though this also has its limits.

Because:

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

old public dungeon special pets:
Dwaven Theodolite - 7 parts
Big Eared Ginger Kitten - 7 parts
Mummified Alfiq - 10 parts

new public dungeon special pets:
Coral Haj Mota - 50 parts
Graht-Oak Squirrel - 50 parts

This happened. I think the first one was Labyrithian ...?

That at least was the first one for me when fun turned into chore. Because those 50 parts did NOT drop at a higher rate than the 7/10 before, so it never felt l came any closer to reaching my goal. At the end I decided it wasn't worth my time.

Though I THINK they at least raised the drop rate for the fragments in the latest chapter ...?

Drammanoth · June 20

You know, grind is an aspect of every MMO, isn't it...

If you feel overburdened by it, take a break. Forcing oneself to grind will discourage you from playing ESO more than if you took some time off.

FOMO, yes, I know. Make the effort to resist it as much as possible.

Desiato · June 20

The term grind is used differently in these forums than in other games I've played. It typically refers to something that is necessary to progress. Like grinding exp for a level.

So much of what people complain about grinding here is completely optional like cosmetics and/or can be obtained through trades.

I've probably used around 400 dreugh wax the past 2 months without grinding for them because I engage in the player economy. I sell the things I get from the activities I enjoy more to buy things that come from the activities I enjoy less.

ZOS likes to distance itself from the term MMO, but even in the context of an "online rpg", the point of playing with other players is to have some level of engagement with them.

I also think it's unrealistic to have a "completionist" view of a game as diverse and vast as ESO. With so much to do and collect, if one decides they simply must have it all, they are choosing an arduous path that will inevitably involve activities designed for a different kind of player.

Lazarus_Rising · June 20

Syldras wrote: »

Well, they said they would focus on "repeatable content" because players wanted "more to do"... It's no surprise, and another reminder to be precise when wishing for something.

idk man people asked for necro buffs and they took away the strongest skills....

CGPsaint · June 24

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

Just an example for those who ask where the impression of more grind comes from:

old public dungeon special pets:
Dwaven Theodolite - 7 parts
Big Eared Ginger Kitten - 7 parts
Mummified Alfiq - 10 parts

new public dungeon special pets:
Coral Haj Mota - 50 parts
Graht-Oak Squirrel - 50 parts

Once it was two things per chapter, with 7 to 10 parts each, that were tradeable between players.
Now it is one thing that needs 50 parts that you have to grind all by yourself.

Don't forget that they removed the ability to combine all of those parts into a runebox so now we have X number of pieces cluttering up our inventory, or we have to sell the parts individually now which pretty much kills the market for those pets.

MidniteOwl1913 · June 24

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

Just an example for those who ask where the impression of more grind comes from:

old public dungeon special pets:
Dwaven Theodolite - 7 parts
Big Eared Ginger Kitten - 7 parts
Mummified Alfiq - 10 parts

new public dungeon special pets:
Coral Haj Mota - 50 parts
Graht-Oak Squirrel - 50 parts

Once it was two things per chapter, with 7 to 10 parts each, that were tradeable between players.
Now it is one thing that needs 50 parts that you have to grind all by yourself.

I know you can buy the squirrel parts because I have. I suspect the same is true of the mota.