Reinvest the game's profits into the game rather than live events that not many can attend to

FelisCatus

Live events are great for those who live nearby or can afford to go or for the content creators who get invited. However for most players it's not relevant. Fix PvP, fix the servers, the writing, the balance, add more content and update the old textures/animations. Increase housing slots. Add new skill lines, classes, a class change token (how many threads do we have to make old man?). It's pretty tiring seeing so many IRL events being hosted for the anniversary whilst the anniversary event itself was a low drop monotonous grind fest. We receive yet another lack lustre chapter with poor, predictable writing. We get a few new enemies but most are just reskins. The last decent chapter was Summerset. I get the anniversary gives you an excuse to have a company holiday and pat yourselves on the back but many this game is in a mess and manned by a skeleton crew. Crownstore and crown crates get way more development time and attention than most of the chapters it seems. I was hyped for scribing and it turned out to be a half-baked grindfest. With most scribing skills being more for utility, roleplay and niche. Skill styles are nice but some of the best ones are locked behind a grind. I have no doubt that you'll monetise this cool earnable/rewarding feature. I wouldn't be surprised if scribing gets monetised either. West Weald is a tiny zone with little to do. The Bosmer feel shoehorned in for fan service and Ithelia was as predictable as she was irrelevant and boring. The new trial was at least different and difficult so props for that. The environmental screen dimming and resolution reduction should be made optional you can keep it on by default but at least give us an option to turn it off. I was hyped for this chapter (except Ithelia) I was largely disappointed though, and each chapter since Summerset has been disappointing. I'd love for this game to return to its golden peak but as the years go on I feel more uncertain.

spartaxoxo

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

Azphira

Like a few more 1U's/blades in the server?

JustLovely

FelisCatus wrote: »

Live events are great for those who live nearby or can afford to go or for the content creators who get invited. However for most players it's not relevant. Fix PvP, fix the servers, the writing, the balance, add more content and update the old textures/animations. Add new skill lines, classes, a class change token (how many threads do we have to make old man?). It's pretty tiring seeing so many IRL events being hosted for the anniversary whilst the anniversary event itself was a low drop monotonous grind fest. We receive yet another lack lustre chapter with poor, predictable writing. We get a few new enemies but most are just reskins. The last decent chapter was Summerset. I get the anniversary gives you an excuse to have a company holiday and pat yourselves on the back but many this game is in a mess and manned by a skeleton crew. Crownstore and crown crates get way more development time and attention than most of the chapters it seems. I was hyped for scribing and it turned out to be a half-baked grindfest. With most scribing skills being more for utility, roleplay and niche. Skill styles are nice but some of the best ones are locked behind a grind. I have no doubt that you'll monetise this cool learnable/rewarding feature. I wouldn't be surprised if scribing gets monetised either. West Weald is a tiny zone with little to do. The Bosmer feel shoehorned in for fan service and Ithelia was as predictable as she was irrelevant and boring. The new trial was at least different and difficult so props for that. The environmental screen dimming and resolution reduction should be made optional you can keep it on by default but at least give us an option to turn it off. I was hyped for this chapter (except Ithelia) I was largely disappointed though, and each chapter since Summerset has been disappointing. I'd love for this game to return to its golden peak but as the years go on I feel more uncertain.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've been afraid to. I wonder how much it cost to send a bunch of staff to Amsterdam for a week. Must be a good gig if you can get it.

JustLovely

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

No it's not. They've cut their content releases in half lately. And Cyodiil has suffered pop cap reductions over and over and over and over and over again since 2018.

And while advertising is a normal investment for a company to invest in, overseas trips to high profile tourist destinations for staff is more than what can be considered normal by a pretty fair margin.

FelisCatus

JustLovely wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

Live events are great for those who live nearby or can afford to go or for the content creators who get invited. However for most players it's not relevant. Fix PvP, fix the servers, the writing, the balance, add more content and update the old textures/animations. Add new skill lines, classes, a class change token (how many threads do we have to make old man?). It's pretty tiring seeing so many IRL events being hosted for the anniversary whilst the anniversary event itself was a low drop monotonous grind fest. We receive yet another lack lustre chapter with poor, predictable writing. We get a few new enemies but most are just reskins. The last decent chapter was Summerset. I get the anniversary gives you an excuse to have a company holiday and pat yourselves on the back but many this game is in a mess and manned by a skeleton crew. Crownstore and crown crates get way more development time and attention than most of the chapters it seems. I was hyped for scribing and it turned out to be a half-baked grindfest. With most scribing skills being more for utility, roleplay and niche. Skill styles are nice but some of the best ones are locked behind a grind. I have no doubt that you'll monetise this cool learnable/rewarding feature. I wouldn't be surprised if scribing gets monetised either. West Weald is a tiny zone with little to do. The Bosmer feel shoehorned in for fan service and Ithelia was as predictable as she was irrelevant and boring. The new trial was at least different and difficult so props for that. The environmental screen dimming and resolution reduction should be made optional you can keep it on by default but at least give us an option to turn it off. I was hyped for this chapter (except Ithelia) I was largely disappointed though, and each chapter since Summerset has been disappointing. I'd love for this game to return to its golden peak but as the years go on I feel more uncertain.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've been afraid to. I wonder how much it cost to send a bunch of staff to Amsterdam for a week. Must be a good gig if you can get it.

It's been bugging me for awhile now and felt I had to rant.

JustLovely wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

No it's not. They've cut their content releases in half lately. And Cyodiil has suffered pop cap reductions over and over and over and over and over again since 2018.

And while advertising is a normal investment for a company to invest in, overseas trips to high profile tourist destinations for staff is more than what can be considered normal by a pretty fair margin.

I agree, and Gold Road is a very small chapter and this is what we get until next year as the content for q3 and q4 are not going to be chapter sized. Chapters have been getting smaller, Necrom felt small even though we had two zones. Gold Road is a lot smaller. There are even less quests.

gariondavey

JustLovely wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

No it's not. They've cut their content releases in half lately. And Cyodiil has suffered pop cap reductions over and over and over and over and over again since 2018.

And while advertising is a normal investment for a company to invest in, overseas trips to high profile tourist destinations for staff is more than what can be considered normal by a pretty fair margin.

This

spartaxoxo

JustLovely wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

No it's not. They've cut their content releases in half lately. And Cyodiil has suffered pop cap reductions over and over and over and over and over again since 2018.

And while advertising is a normal investment for a company to invest in, overseas trips to high profile tourist destinations for staff is more than what can be considered normal by a pretty fair margin.

No. It's absolutely not more than considered normal in the video game industry. Almost all of the big companies do live events. The advertising budget is separate to the development budget anyway.

They still delivered a lot of content last year despite the cut, as well. Infinite Archive was a big boon. And if IA is anything to go by, new PvP activity in Q4 will be quite good.

ESO+ might be a worse deal now, but they did very well by the base game

Grec1a

JustLovely wrote: »

I wonder how much it cost to send a bunch of staff to Amsterdam for a week. Must be a good gig if you can get it.

Didn't they also pay for a load of Youtubers to attend?

Syldras

How many decades of screen-dimming are that?

FelisCatus

Syldras wrote: »

How many decades of screen-dimming are that?

It's all just hollow virtue signalling at this point.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

No it's not. They've cut their content releases in half lately. And Cyodiil has suffered pop cap reductions over and over and over and over and over again since 2018.

And while advertising is a normal investment for a company to invest in, overseas trips to high profile tourist destinations for staff is more than what can be considered normal by a pretty fair margin.

No. It's absolutely not more than considered normal in the video game industry. Almost all of the big companies do live events. The advertising budget is separate to the development budget anyway.

They still delivered a lot of content last year despite the cut, as well. Infinite Archive was a big boon. And if IA is anything to go by, new PvP activity in Q4 will be quite good.

ESO+ might be a worse deal now, but they did very well by the base game

I think this is just cope at this point. IA got stale fast.

spartaxoxo

FelisCatus wrote: »

I think this is just cope at this point. IA got stale fast.

I don't like PvP, but I can understand others like it. It's not someone coping to have a good opinion of the game. I think IA was a great addition. And they are going to keep adding to it, supposedly. I like being able to farm up leads in there.

Summerset came out 6 years ago. Instead of expecting the game to change into something else, might as well enjoy it for what it is. Otherwise, what even is the point of playing? Games should be fun.

Syldras

Syldras wrote: »

How many decades of screen-dimming are that?

Out of curiosity, I used stats about the average pc's and laptop's energy consumption and how that would translate to CO2 emissions if your home is 100% supplied with electricity produced by conventional means (so not your own solar panels on your roof, or commercially produced renewable energy).

To reach the 8,7 t of CO2 emissions that this one trip above produces, your desktop computer could run for over 16 and a half years straight. For the average laptop, it would be roughly 33 years. Or even up to 66 years, if you have one with a low energy usage. Oh, without any screen dimming or other energy saving programs, of course.

That said, I generally have no problem with people travelling by plane (not with hobby pilots either, btw, it's an awesome hobby in my opinion). In fact I think it's beneficial if people experience different cultures and landscapes and broaden their horizon with new experiences and knowledge. I just think that it's also good to know how it affects the environment - so people can make their own informed choices about it.

FelisCatus

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

I think this is just cope at this point. IA got stale fast.

I don't like PvP, but I can understand others like it. It's not someone coping to have a good opinion of the game. I think IA was a great addition. And they are going to keep adding to it, supposedly. I like being able to farm up leads in there.

Summerset came out 6 years ago. Instead of expecting the game to change into something else, might as well enjoy it for what it is. Otherwise, what even is the point of playing? Games should be fun.

The game can be better and deserves better and when you've poured 9 years of your time into it, it's honestly sad to see one of your favourite games decline the way it has. You'd of thought that Microsoft acquiring it would've paved the way forward for greater things. I'm disgruntled because I'm passionate about this game. Maybe you are fine accepting mediocrity and the scraps they feed us but I'm not and this game could be so much more.

XSTRONG

They need to advertise their game to new, exsisting and old players to be able to invest in the game and continue developing.

So live events are a good thing and we can hope they livestream it so more people can watch.

FelisCatus

XSTRONG wrote: »

They need to advertise their game to new, exsisting and old players to be able to invest in the game and continue developing.

So live events are a good thing and we can hope they livestream it so more people can watch.

Despite the number of content creators this game is barely viewed on Twitch even on official channels the game does not get high viewership so I question the effectiveness of this "advertising" the only thing that seems to get lots of views are the global reveals once a year and the cinematic trailers (that look amazing, but nothing like the game). Also ask yourself how many views on twitch are just people idling for twitch drops? You'll see a big decrease in viewership when there aren't any drop campaigns active.

As for Youtube the gameplay trailers get between a few hundred to a thousand views for content creator videos and a few hundred thousand views for official gameplay videos. Whereas the cinematic trailers get millions of views. These live events may seem great, but they only cater and can support a small amount of people, usually content creators and anyone local or wealthy enough to travel to another country (transport, hotel, spending money). It is something that doesn't really appeal to most players.

We've all played the game and this advertising or style of it hasn't led to a whole lot of new players coming in, Craglorn is often barren and most zones except the newer zones or undaunted areas in the old zones are barren. Even with group finder finding groups for trifecta is difficult, some guilds are active but there is a lot less diversity in PvE guilds from my experience. A lot of the experienced players aren't around as much to lead and teach less experienced or casual players. Tanks are very scarce, healers are starting to become more scarce (especially for endgame content). I've seen way more Pugs than I have guild runs, it's sad.

PvP (especially IC) is dead. A lot of veteran players have left the game, either due to burn out or continued disappointment. Chasing after new players may look great to inflate stats but these new players often won't stick around aslong as a veteran player has or spend enough. So who is this really helping? I suggest reinvesting into the game and giving long term customers/veteran players a reason to return and stick around more. It is the veterans who teach the new players. A lot of new players won't stick around due to the learning curve and insane grind of this game.

CastleCrasher

I don't know if they're really working on a new game, every game company cares more about Rainbow than in-game race, I think Werebeasts won't rework, at least to buff the werewolf, no offense to anyone

Tornaad

FelisCatus wrote: »

Live events are great for those who live nearby or can afford to go or for the content creators who get invited. However for most players it's not relevant. Fix PvP, fix the servers, the writing, the balance, add more content and update the old textures/animations. Increase housing slots. Add new skill lines, classes, a class change token (how many threads do we have to make old man?). It's pretty tiring seeing so many IRL events being hosted for the anniversary whilst the anniversary event itself was a low drop monotonous grind fest. We receive yet another lack lustre chapter with poor, predictable writing. We get a few new enemies but most are just reskins. The last decent chapter was Summerset. I get the anniversary gives you an excuse to have a company holiday and pat yourselves on the back but many this game is in a mess and manned by a skeleton crew. Crownstore and crown crates get way more development time and attention than most of the chapters it seems. I was hyped for scribing and it turned out to be a half-baked grindfest. With most scribing skills being more for utility, roleplay and niche. Skill styles are nice but some of the best ones are locked behind a grind. I have no doubt that you'll monetise this cool earnable/rewarding feature. I wouldn't be surprised if scribing gets monetised either. West Weald is a tiny zone with little to do. The Bosmer feel shoehorned in for fan service and Ithelia was as predictable as she was irrelevant and boring. The new trial was at least different and difficult so props for that. The environmental screen dimming and resolution reduction should be made optional you can keep it on by default but at least give us an option to turn it off. I was hyped for this chapter (except Ithelia) I was largely disappointed though, and each chapter since Summerset has been disappointing. I'd love for this game to return to its golden peak but as the years go on I feel more uncertain.

It's not that simple.
For a business to continue to exist, it must be promoted. If they neglect the promotion of the business, then ESO will truly start dying. For things like a 10-year anniversary, they serve as both advertising for new customers, and for increasing the loyalty of existing customers.

A company that properly balances its books will have money dedicated towards advertising, money devoted towards product improvement, and money devoted towards things like developing new products. To neglect any of those would hinder the growth of the business, and thus would also result in the company starting to die.

And on a personal note. from the sounds of your post, you have not played Gold Road and Necrom. The two together are one of the most amazing Elder Scrolls stories I have ever experienced.

FelisCatus

Tornaad wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

Live events are great for those who live nearby or can afford to go or for the content creators who get invited. However for most players it's not relevant. Fix PvP, fix the servers, the writing, the balance, add more content and update the old textures/animations. Increase housing slots. Add new skill lines, classes, a class change token (how many threads do we have to make old man?). It's pretty tiring seeing so many IRL events being hosted for the anniversary whilst the anniversary event itself was a low drop monotonous grind fest. We receive yet another lack lustre chapter with poor, predictable writing. We get a few new enemies but most are just reskins. The last decent chapter was Summerset. I get the anniversary gives you an excuse to have a company holiday and pat yourselves on the back but many this game is in a mess and manned by a skeleton crew. Crownstore and crown crates get way more development time and attention than most of the chapters it seems. I was hyped for scribing and it turned out to be a half-baked grindfest. With most scribing skills being more for utility, roleplay and niche. Skill styles are nice but some of the best ones are locked behind a grind. I have no doubt that you'll monetise this cool earnable/rewarding feature. I wouldn't be surprised if scribing gets monetised either. West Weald is a tiny zone with little to do. The Bosmer feel shoehorned in for fan service and Ithelia was as predictable as she was irrelevant and boring. The new trial was at least different and difficult so props for that. The environmental screen dimming and resolution reduction should be made optional you can keep it on by default but at least give us an option to turn it off. I was hyped for this chapter (except Ithelia) I was largely disappointed though, and each chapter since Summerset has been disappointing. I'd love for this game to return to its golden peak but as the years go on I feel more uncertain.

It's not that simple.
For a business to continue to exist, it must be promoted. If they neglect the promotion of the business, then ESO will truly start dying. For things like a 10-year anniversary, they serve as both advertising for new customers, and for increasing the loyalty of existing customers.

A company that properly balances its books will have money dedicated towards advertising, money devoted towards product improvement, and money devoted towards things like developing new products. To neglect any of those would hinder the growth of the business, and thus would also result in the company starting to die.

And on a personal note. from the sounds of your post, you have not played Gold Road and Necrom. The two together are one of the most amazing Elder Scrolls stories I have ever experienced.

This is not an indie developer. I am not suggesting they stop advertising completely, but these live events are just not it. Honestly, just seems like the staff wanted an excuse to go on a holiday to Europe. The company won't die but the game will.

Clearly you haven't read the post. I have played both of them, pre-ordered both of them and they were not as great as I'd of hoped.

Bo0137

I sub and play since day one so I can give my opinion: I like that the money I invest in ESO is rewarded in the form of live events. I wholeheartedly loved that they made an event in my country.
Also, these events help promote the game a lot.
Besides, what is the point of playing/developing a game if you are not celebrating the big marks?
I genuinely love the enthusiasm and passion ZOS puts into their craft. It's like it's not only their job but actually a hobby for them.

spartaxoxo

FelisCatus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

I think this is just cope at this point. IA got stale fast.

I don't like PvP, but I can understand others like it. It's not someone coping to have a good opinion of the game. I think IA was a great addition. And they are going to keep adding to it, supposedly. I like being able to farm up leads in there.

Summerset came out 6 years ago. Instead of expecting the game to change into something else, might as well enjoy it for what it is. Otherwise, what even is the point of playing? Games should be fun.

The game can be better and deserves better and when you've poured 9 years of your time into it, it's honestly sad to see one of your favourite games decline the way it has. You'd of thought that Microsoft acquiring it would've paved the way forward for greater things. I'm disgruntled because I'm passionate about this game. Maybe you are fine accepting mediocrity and the scraps they feed us but I'm not and this game could be so much more.

I don't think it's mediocre, except for PvP, which I almost never play in the first place. I have a passion for the game because I enjoy it, not because of sunk cost fallacy that automatically kills enjoyment I could have had.

The only things that I am personally bothered they don't have are a difficulty slider for overland, a new PvP mode, dungeon story mode, and romance options for companions. And 2 of those things are already coming, and one of them is soon. The only reason the last one on the list bugs me is because they hyped it up a lot when companions were introduced, and then quietly acted like they didn't. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an issue to me at all.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi all, so a few things here.

Generally, the notion that there is a pot of money and that it should mostly go toward one thing is not how budgets work. Especially when you consider we are one development team under the ZeniMax umbrella that is under the Xbox umbrella. These events have been budgeted out well in advance and not at the expense of the development team. These budgets are separate. So even if we did not hold these events, it's not like the money just goes to another team. That's not how budgets work.

Marketing/Advertising aside, we do believe at a community level that having in-person meet-ups is very important for community culture and the overall health of the game. It give players the opportunity to bond with each other, but the opportunity to directly engage with the dev team. Beyond through a screen or text. Having opportunities like this are very important. We've heard that first hand from fellow players who have attended.

FelisCatus wrote: »

This is not an indie developer. I am not suggesting they stop advertising completely, but these live events are just not it. Honestly, just seems like the staff wanted an excuse to go on a holiday to Europe. The company won't die but the game will.

Also wanted to touch on this, because honestly comments like this belittle the hard work our teams do. They do not deserve to read comments that, intentional or not, attempt to devalue their work. Our teams plan, review, and practice for months to be able to produce an event for those who choose to spend their time and money with us. This isn't some vacation ploy, no company would approve that. The company has a generous PTO policy for vacation when we need it. We listened to feedback from players in Europe that they would like the opportunity to attend events, but rarely get an opportunity to, especially after COVID lockdown. That's why we held our event in Europe this time around.

Hopefully this helps at least clear up that development budget is not negatively impacted by hosting in-person events.

CrazyKitty

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The game is getting plenty of development. Advertising is a normal part of video games and will always take part of the budget. Games don't exist without players. Live events are a great way to promote the game and connect with the community. This is why they are so common in the industry.

No it's not. They've cut their content releases in half lately. And Cyodiil has suffered pop cap reductions over and over and over and over and over again since 2018.

And while advertising is a normal investment for a company to invest in, overseas trips to high profile tourist destinations for staff is more than what can be considered normal by a pretty fair margin.

No. It's absolutely not more than considered normal in the video game industry. Almost all of the big companies do live events. The advertising budget is separate to the development budget anyway.

They still delivered a lot of content last year despite the cut, as well. Infinite Archive was a big boon. And if IA is anything to go by, new PvP activity in Q4 will be quite good.

ESO+ might be a worse deal now, but they did very well by the base game

The only new things in IA are the puzzles. Everything else is repackaged content from other parts of the game. Essentially there is nothing new in IA at all. And I've never heard of another game manufacturer sending a bunch of employees and youtubers overseas to promote their game.

Last year was the least amount of content ESO has ever had since creation, and this year's going to be even less.

Are we talking about the same game?

CrazyKitty

FelisCatus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

I think this is just cope at this point. IA got stale fast.

I don't like PvP, but I can understand others like it. It's not someone coping to have a good opinion of the game. I think IA was a great addition. And they are going to keep adding to it, supposedly. I like being able to farm up leads in there.

Summerset came out 6 years ago. Instead of expecting the game to change into something else, might as well enjoy it for what it is. Otherwise, what even is the point of playing? Games should be fun.

The game can be better and deserves better and when you've poured 9 years of your time into it, it's honestly sad to see one of your favourite games decline the way it has. You'd of thought that Microsoft acquiring it would've paved the way forward for greater things. I'm disgruntled because I'm passionate about this game. Maybe you are fine accepting mediocrity and the scraps they feed us but I'm not and this game could be so much more.

We'd be way better off if ZOS had stuck with the focus on PvP end game that the game creators clearly had in mind. Going totally casual grindfest is not the way to go IMO.

ArchMikem

Syldras wrote: »

How many decades of screen-dimming are that?

Are we seriously shaming long distance travel now? Should we start a movement to make everyone travel by ship again since it's more emissions friendly?

I'm actually very pro environment but that was an odd way of arguing against the event. I did my fair share of contributing to the burning of fuel the multiple times I visited my Ex 1,100 miles away.

Syldras

ArchMikem wrote: »

Are we seriously shaming long distance travel now? Should we start a movement to make everyone travel by ship again since it's more emissions friendly?
I'm actually very pro environment but that was an odd way of arguing against the event. I did my fair share of contributing to the burning of fuel the multiple times I visited my Ex 1,100 miles away.

Where did I argue against the event? Have you even read my second post in this thread where I wrote this:

Syldras wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I used stats about the average pc's and laptop's energy consumption and how that would translate to CO2 emissions if your home is 100% supplied with electricity produced by conventional means (so not your own solar panels on your roof, or commercially produced renewable energy).

To reach the 8,7 t of CO2 emissions that this one trip above produces, your desktop computer could run for over 16 and a half years straight. For the average laptop, it would be roughly 33 years. Or even up to 66 years, if you have one with a low energy usage. Oh, without any screen dimming or other energy saving programs, of course.

That said, I generally have no problem with people travelling by plane (not with hobby pilots either, btw, it's an awesome hobby in my opinion). In fact I think it's beneficial if people experience different cultures and landscapes and broaden their horizon with new experiences and knowledge. I just think that it's also good to know how it affects the environment - so people can make their own informed choices about it.

Tornaad

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, so a few things here.

Generally, the notion that there is a pot of money and that it should mostly go toward one thing is not how budgets work. Especially when you consider we are one development team under the ZeniMax umbrella that is under the Xbox umbrella. These events have been budgeted out well in advance and not at the expense of the development team. These budgets are separate. So even if we did not hold these events, it's not like the money just goes to another team. That's not how budgets work.

Marketing/Advertising aside, we do believe at a community level that having in-person meet-ups is very important for community culture and the overall health of the game. It give players the opportunity to bond with each other, but the opportunity to directly engage with the dev team. Beyond through a screen or text. Having opportunities like this are very important. We've heard that first hand from fellow players who have attended.

FelisCatus wrote: »

This is not an indie developer. I am not suggesting they stop advertising completely, but these live events are just not it. Honestly, just seems like the staff wanted an excuse to go on a holiday to Europe. The company won't die but the game will.

Also wanted to touch on this, because honestly comments like this belittle the hard work our teams do. They do not deserve to read comments that, intentional or not, attempt to devalue their work. Our teams plan, review, and practice for months to be able to produce an event for those who choose to spend their time and money with us. This isn't some vacation ploy, no company would approve that. The company has a generous PTO policy for vacation when we need it. We listened to feedback from players in Europe that they would like the opportunity to attend events, but rarely get an opportunity to, especially after COVID lockdown. That's why we held our event in Europe this time around.

Hopefully this helps at least clear up that development budget is not negatively impacted by hosting in-person events.

Additionally with the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes for events like this likely leave those involved wanting a vacation after the event is done.

Danikat

FelisCatus wrote: »

Tornaad wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

Live events are great for those who live nearby or can afford to go or for the content creators who get invited. However for most players it's not relevant. Fix PvP, fix the servers, the writing, the balance, add more content and update the old textures/animations. Increase housing slots. Add new skill lines, classes, a class change token (how many threads do we have to make old man?). It's pretty tiring seeing so many IRL events being hosted for the anniversary whilst the anniversary event itself was a low drop monotonous grind fest. We receive yet another lack lustre chapter with poor, predictable writing. We get a few new enemies but most are just reskins. The last decent chapter was Summerset. I get the anniversary gives you an excuse to have a company holiday and pat yourselves on the back but many this game is in a mess and manned by a skeleton crew. Crownstore and crown crates get way more development time and attention than most of the chapters it seems. I was hyped for scribing and it turned out to be a half-baked grindfest. With most scribing skills being more for utility, roleplay and niche. Skill styles are nice but some of the best ones are locked behind a grind. I have no doubt that you'll monetise this cool earnable/rewarding feature. I wouldn't be surprised if scribing gets monetised either. West Weald is a tiny zone with little to do. The Bosmer feel shoehorned in for fan service and Ithelia was as predictable as she was irrelevant and boring. The new trial was at least different and difficult so props for that. The environmental screen dimming and resolution reduction should be made optional you can keep it on by default but at least give us an option to turn it off. I was hyped for this chapter (except Ithelia) I was largely disappointed though, and each chapter since Summerset has been disappointing. I'd love for this game to return to its golden peak but as the years go on I feel more uncertain.

It's not that simple.
For a business to continue to exist, it must be promoted. If they neglect the promotion of the business, then ESO will truly start dying. For things like a 10-year anniversary, they serve as both advertising for new customers, and for increasing the loyalty of existing customers.

A company that properly balances its books will have money dedicated towards advertising, money devoted towards product improvement, and money devoted towards things like developing new products. To neglect any of those would hinder the growth of the business, and thus would also result in the company starting to die.

And on a personal note. from the sounds of your post, you have not played Gold Road and Necrom. The two together are one of the most amazing Elder Scrolls stories I have ever experienced.

This is not an indie developer. I am not suggesting they stop advertising completely, but these live events are just not it. Honestly, just seems like the staff wanted an excuse to go on a holiday to Europe. The company won't die but the game will.

Clearly you haven't read the post. I have played both of them, pre-ordered both of them and they were not as great as I'd of hoped.

I'm not a game developer and I don't work for ZOS but I can tell you working live events is a very different experience to attending them and not at all like a holiday. It can be rewarding, even fun in it's own way, but it's a lot of long days and hard work. Especially because you're always 'on' - if you're anywhere the attendees can see you then you have to be available and willing to help with anything they need at a moment's notice. If you're finally heading to sit down for the first time in 5 hours and eat something for the first time that day but someone needs help getting to a talk or a vendor needs help fixing their stall then, oh well, your break is cancelled but maybe you'll get one after your next hour-long session on a booth. And no, you can't pass them off to someone else because they're all just as busy as you are and if you're the one fobbing off all the extra work to make sure you get time to yourself you'll be very unpopular very quickly.

I once worked with someone who was seething with jealously her first year when colleagues got a "free ride" to the annual conference and 2 extra days off as compensation for "working" the weekend. The second year she was initially excited that she got to go and then begging to be excused from responsibilities she hoped were optional by day 2 (like the conference dinner and the party in the evening - nope, it's fun for the attendees but staff will be there until the end) and called in sick in addition to taking her 2 TOIL days the week after. The 3rd year she was trying to get a doctor's note to say she was exempt due to stress.

And if you're thinking sure they have to work the event but they still get free flights to Europe and can just take some extra time before/after I can tell you that doesn't work either. Companies block-book flights like that so you take the ones they organise (and hope it gives you time to adjust to the new time zone and jet lag) or you pay for your own way there and back.

I like working events now and again but I've had the opportunity to join the events team at a few places I've worked and never taken it precisely because it's so much work and stress I couldn't do it more than a couple of times a year.

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Generally, the notion that there is a pot of money and that it should mostly go toward one thing is not how budgets work. Especially when you consider we are one development team under the ZeniMax umbrella that is under the Xbox umbrella. These events have been budgeted out well in advance and not at the expense of the development team. These budgets are separate. So even if we did not hold these events, it's not like the money just goes to another team. That's not how budgets work.

Some of us can appreciate the realities of how corporate budgets work. But, there's others whose emotional reality isn't even going to consider that. It's like when people complain about crown store stuff getting fixed before PVP. Of course, they're different teams with different budgets and technologies. I know that. You know that. But it's not a consideration when there's issues. And if there's a history - which there is - of not addressing issues head-on or providing roadmaps or context or whatever, then you're going to deal with uncomfortable topics.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Marketing/Advertising aside, we do believe at a community level that having in-person meet-ups is very important for community culture and the overall health of the game. It give players the opportunity to bond with each other, but the opportunity to directly engage with the dev team. Beyond through a screen or text. Having opportunities like this are very important. We've heard that first hand from fellow players who have attended.

Live events are wonderful - if you're in attendance. But the conversations there do not make it back to the larger audience. There are so many frequent complaints and topics that need to be addressed, that don't get addressed. That's why you get posts like this.

And I get that you guys want to have the fanfare with each release, but you have to take inventory of the other issues that haunt you here and on streams. If you're not going to talk about performance plans, combat issues, grinding for new items, and whatever other issues have arisen, then you're going to deal with them in a more uncomfortable fashion.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

This is not an indie developer. I am not suggesting they stop advertising completely, but these live events are just not it. Honestly, just seems like the staff wanted an excuse to go on a holiday to Europe. The company won't die but the game will.

Also wanted to touch on this, because honestly comments like this belittle the hard work our teams do. They do not deserve to read comments that, intentional or not, attempt to devalue their work. Our teams plan, review, and practice for months to be able to produce an event for those who choose to spend their time and money with us. This isn't some vacation ploy, no company would approve that. The company has a generous PTO policy for vacation when we need it. We listened to feedback from players in Europe that they would like the opportunity to attend events, but rarely get an opportunity to, especially after COVID lockdown. That's why we held our event in Europe this time around.

These are all fair points. You're justified in your answer, but being defensive isn't going to resolve this. You guys need to address the core issues being raised - that we're getting less content for the same price and the game consistently has performance issues. Those should be addressed as visibly the answers you provided to prevent future moments like this.

Erissime

Honestly I do not understand even the reason behind such a topic. Sure it does look like "the house is burning" while "the hosts are partying else where" - but then when did the "house" not burn when new content was released? And when did the issues not occur for one reason or another?

At the same time when did ANY team for whatever reason reaches 10 years of togetherness passes that unoticed? Let alone a team who needs its marketing.

Anyway, that being said, the game still has issues in Cyrodiil, and I'm growing kind of bored and tired to not be able to move every 2 seconds when ballgroups are on the ground ( mainly ballgroups) - and this is not to talk against them, but those are groups which use extensively timed skills and proc sets, and this has to have a solution by now. Common zos, why do you bring all this fluff if all it's gonna do in the long run is ruin furthermore the game's experience? Those people work together and use those procs very much timed and very much in sync, unlike your ordinary zergling or solo which can only triger a skill once, or there's no sync about.

And while I can hold my bit of lag now and then, now I am writing with my screen frozen after what looks like a huge crash on account of such a thing - and no I am not taking crashes lightly, since I am used with a smooth experience in that regard, even when lag is at play. So by all means, fix things for us pvpers, pvp is not a niche, it's part of the end game. This attitude of delaying to look at it which has led to translation of absolute ignorance to this day is what makes it niche! (in other words, you are the ones limiting the gaming, not the players, ppl want to play, you do not let them! )

tsaescishoeshiner

Destai wrote: »

And I get that you guys want to have the fanfare with each release, but you have to take inventory of the other issues that haunt you here and on streams. If you're not going to talk about performance plans, combat issues, grinding for new items, and whatever other issues have arisen, then you're going to deal with them in a more uncomfortable fashion.

I see where you're coming from with these bigger issues, but is it fair to say that they can't do any promotional content without having people blast them for their personal issues with the game?

I feel like they can do a fun stream promoting Gold Road without people spamming "Cyrodiil Cyrodiil Cyrodiil class balance." Otherwise, they would have to stop doing promotional content until the game was flawless, right? Leading every single event, stream, article, or post with "Hey, we know that necromancer is still not performing as well as we like" is not very hype lol.

People requested more live events, and they met that demand. If a PvP patch is released, should people be spamming it with "But this is not addressing the major community issue of the lack of events in Europe and you need to address that before anyone can be positive"? I don't think so, but I hope I'm not paraphrasing that in bad faith. : P