Unavailability of Ink locks casual players out of scribing.

moderatelyfatman

Hi All,

Admittedly not a casual player here. I just spent about 10 hours clearing out my surveys which includes grabbing every single resource between survey sites. I have been doing this for two days (about 8 hours in total) for a grand total of 1 ink.

I'm looking at these odds and asking myself how the heck are casual players supposed to scribe more than 1-2 skills? Remember, most casual players don't have a huge number of alts or a large enough bank balance to be able to buy it from guild traders.

Suggests for ZOS:
Maybe make one daily task per day give a guaranteed non-tradeable 1 ink? It's not going to cause a massive imbalance in the game, but it will allow all players to eventually unlock all the skills without suffering through endless grinding.

yadibroz

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Hi All,

Admittedly not a casual player here. I just spent about 10 hours clearing out my surveys which includes grabbing every single resource between survey sites. I have been doing this for two days (about 8 hours in total) for a grand total of 1 ink.

I'm looking at these odds and asking myself how the heck are casual players supposed to scribe more than 1-2 skills? Remember, most casual players don't have a huge number of alts or a large enough bank balance to be able to buy it from guild traders.

Suggests for ZOS:
Maybe make one daily task per day give a guaranteed non-tradeable 1 ink? It's not going to cause a massive imbalance in the game, but it will allow all players to eventually unlock all the skills without suffering through endless grinding.

I rather watch rick and morty all over again than spending this much grinding on eso when it don't worth it.

moderatelyfatman

yadibroz wrote: »

I rather watch rick and morty all over again than spending this much grinding on eso when it don't worth it.

It's not even an issue of whether or not you want to do it if you only have 1-2 hours per day to play the game. Even if a casual player grinds through the questline in 3-4 weeks, it would take another 6-12 months to get enough ink to scribe all the skills. In the mean time, that would mean giving up all the things they enjoy playing the game for.

EF321

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I just spent about 10 hours clearing out my surveys which includes grabbing every single resource between survey sites

Surveys have 0% chance of dropping ink.

if you only have 1-2 hours per day

Maybe game should not be balanced around people who don't have time to play it?

Circuitous

EF321 wrote: »

if you only have 1-2 hours per day

Maybe game should not be balanced around people who don't have time to play it?

Why not? It benefits everyone.

I don't actually have an issue with ink droprates (I got like 5 today and wasn't really gunning for them at all), but better drop rates would not be a bad thing. The only people it hurts are the prospectors trying to make a quick buck off it - and they can still target things like furnishing plans if they're that strapped for cash.

moderatelyfatman

EF321 wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I just spent about 10 hours clearing out my surveys which includes grabbing every single resource between survey sites

Surveys have 0% chance of dropping ink.

if you only have 1-2 hours per day

Maybe game should not be balanced around people who don't have time to play it?

I've been running between surveys and hoovering up every single resource between, so I've certainly harvested as many non-survey nodes as survey ones.

This isn't a matter of pandering to casual players but making it accessible to all players. Casual players can still get antiquities in a reasonable amount of time if they are patient. This is not the case with ink because the drop rate is so low.

EF321

Right now we are at the point of lowest supply ever and peak demand. Ink just started dropping and players have no skills scribed and want to try the system.

Ink isn't something that has daily use yet (like nirncrux/dawn-prisms for master wrist, roe for food, flowers for potions), so after everyone settles on their skills (and most players will just copy some meta from guide, without wasting anything on expreiments), ink will start piling up. With lower demand and it keep dropping from many sources it will be non-issue soon.


It is only an issue right now, but you also have guaranteed ink from quests, that is per character. Any character can guarantee themselves starter set of skills.


No reason to panic, it really is the same story with anything new.

SeaGtGruff

You don't need to scribe all of the possible skills. You should go through the various possibilities on the altar but don't pull the trigger on any of them, just make a note of which ones look best for whatever kinds of skills you'd like to add to your build. Then scribe just the few that you actually care about.

I_killed_Vivec

EF321 wrote: »

so after everyone settles on their skills (and most players will just copy some meta from guide, without wasting anything on experiments), ink will start piling up. With lower demand and it keep dropping from many sources it will be non-issue soon.

We don't know yet but I suspect that this might happen sooner than we imagine.

Scribing seems quite limited, and most people won't want to experiment - not least because of the rarity (and subsequent cost) of ink. It seems inevitable that people will tend to follow the meta. Personally I think that people will be a little underwhelmed about the value of scribing, and scribed skills won't be that popular. We'll soon see when the meta builders start updating their builds:)

I'm not sure how ZoS intend to keep scribing alive - once you have what you want then you have no further need of ink. Maybe scribing will be extended beyond the current skill sets, but even then I suspect that we'll only get support for niche builds.

moderatelyfatman

@I_killed_Vivec
I think this is just the beginning of Scribing. There will likely be additional skills for each of the weapon and guild skill lines down the track.
Classes could also gain a scribing skill for each one of their skill lines.
As for cosmetics, I think we're long overdue some reskins on pets. I want a polar bear and a panda bear option for my warden!

vsrs_au

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

You don't need to scribe all of the possible skills. You should go through the various possibilities on the altar but don't pull the trigger on any of them, just make a note of which ones look best for whatever kinds of skills you'd like to add to your build. Then scribe just the few that you actually care about.

That's exactly my plan. I'm in no hurry to do any scribing. I've done the quests and fully unlocked the Scholarium, now I'm just going to wait until I have a reasonable supply of Ink.

Tandor

When you unlock ink drops in e.g. harvest nodes do the drops apply to all your characters when e.g. harvesting, or just the one that has progressed scribing?

shadyjane62

Tandor wrote: »

When you unlock ink drops in e.g. harvest nodes do the drops apply to all your characters when e.g. harvesting, or just the one that has progressed scribing?

All chars have the same chance of not getting any drops in any place anywhere.

BetweenMidgets

Tandor wrote: »

When you unlock ink drops in e.g. harvest nodes do the drops apply to all your characters when e.g. harvesting, or just the one that has progressed scribing?

You have to have done some portions of the questline in order to unlock it on other toons. I think the Netch wing is the one needed for harvesting.

xylena_lazarow

And the time-gated daily chore grind locks paying customers out of the system too.

NuarBlack

EF321 wrote: »

Right now we are at the point of lowest supply ever and peak demand. Ink just started dropping and players have no skills scribed and want to try the system.

Ink isn't something that has daily use yet (like nirncrux/dawn-prisms for master wrist, roe for food, flowers for potions), so after everyone settles on their skills (and most players will just copy some meta from guide, without wasting anything on expreiments), ink will start piling up. With lower demand and it keep dropping from many sources it will be non-issue soon.


It is only an issue right now, but you also have guaranteed ink from quests, that is per character. Any character can guarantee themselves starter set of skills.


No reason to panic, it really is the same story with anything new.

This is just pointless then. Why add another crafting resource to an already bloated system? Inks were a bad idea. You take a system that is inherently about experimentation and gate keep it to where it just falls victim to meta chasing. Just asinine

darvaria

Yeah I view it as a way for trade guilds to horde and jack up the prices. I refuse to pay them. I have 35k of crowns and prob 60M but I'm not paying for ink.

barney2525

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

When you unlock ink drops in e.g. harvest nodes do the drops apply to all your characters when e.g. harvesting, or just the one that has progressed scribing?

You have to have done some portions of the questline in order to unlock it on other toons. I think the Netch wing is the one needed for harvesting.

just completed Netch.

if you haven't done anything in Vvardenfall yet, this should end any casuals from scribing.

Aurielle

NuarBlack wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Right now we are at the point of lowest supply ever and peak demand. Ink just started dropping and players have no skills scribed and want to try the system.

Ink isn't something that has daily use yet (like nirncrux/dawn-prisms for master wrist, roe for food, flowers for potions), so after everyone settles on their skills (and most players will just copy some meta from guide, without wasting anything on expreiments), ink will start piling up. With lower demand and it keep dropping from many sources it will be non-issue soon.


It is only an issue right now, but you also have guaranteed ink from quests, that is per character. Any character can guarantee themselves starter set of skills.


No reason to panic, it really is the same story with anything new.

This is just pointless then. Why add another crafting resource to an already bloated system? Inks were a bad idea. You take a system that is inherently about experimentation and gate keep it to where it just falls victim to meta chasing. Just asinine

I agree. It’s also RNG upon RNG, in the sense that you have to roll the dice on getting the script you want (FOR EACH CHARACTER), and also have to roll the dice on getting enough ink to actually use those scripts. It’s entirely too much RNG. Instead of encouraging experimentation and engagement with the system, it encourages holding onto the little ink you have while you wait for the “good” scripts to drop. What a terrible design, from a player enjoyment perspective.

frogthroat

Tandor wrote: »

When you unlock ink drops in e.g. harvest nodes do the drops apply to all your characters when e.g. harvesting, or just the one that has progressed scribing?

Ink drops and scripts yes, the scribing altar and script merchant no. You need to do the 5 minute intro quest to open the script merchant and the scribing altar for each character. Gryphon and Netch quests give you the ink drops and they are account wide. Completing all doors unlocks also all the script drops and that, too, is account wide. Only one character needs to complete it.

The rest of the scribing questline does give you 12 inks, though. So if the ink drops are too rare, mindlessly doing all those 5 doors with all 20 characters would then yield you 240 inks. So while only the intro is required to unlock everything for alts, doing the whole questline might be a way for some players to get more ink.

Aurielle

Wow, so I managed to pick up one (1) ink after 45 minutes of doing surveys and harvesting every crafting node along the way to each survey site.

I am not a casual player. I fortunately have the kind of job that gives me plenty of free time to play ESO. I cannot use this system with the current drop rate… How is a casual player or someone who works 9-5 Mon-Fri supposed to use this system? For many people, 45 minutes is half their available play time per day, or even 75% of their available play time. Maybe players want to spend their play time actually, I dunno, playing the game, and not harvesting crafting nodes?

amig186

Yesterday, while watching the Xbox showcase, I spent 2h running around Betnikh killing the local fauna and mining nodes in search of an Ayleid Lightwell lead. In the process I dropped around 15 inks. It doesn't get any more casual than that.

Ragnarok0130

Aurielle wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Right now we are at the point of lowest supply ever and peak demand. Ink just started dropping and players have no skills scribed and want to try the system.

Ink isn't something that has daily use yet (like nirncrux/dawn-prisms for master wrist, roe for food, flowers for potions), so after everyone settles on their skills (and most players will just copy some meta from guide, without wasting anything on expreiments), ink will start piling up. With lower demand and it keep dropping from many sources it will be non-issue soon.


It is only an issue right now, but you also have guaranteed ink from quests, that is per character. Any character can guarantee themselves starter set of skills.


No reason to panic, it really is the same story with anything new.

This is just pointless then. Why add another crafting resource to an already bloated system? Inks were a bad idea. You take a system that is inherently about experimentation and gate keep it to where it just falls victim to meta chasing. Just asinine

I agree. It’s also RNG upon RNG, in the sense that you have to roll the dice on getting the script you want (FOR EACH CHARACTER), and also have to roll the dice on getting enough ink to actually use those scripts. It’s entirely too much RNG. Instead of encouraging experimentation and engagement with the system, it encourages holding onto the little ink you have while you wait for the “good” scripts to drop. What a terrible design, from a player enjoyment perspective.

RNG has been ZoS' favorite development method for the past decade and its ubiquity is maddening.

Tandor

In relation to the rarity of ink drops, RNG tends only to get mentioned on forums by those whose experience is at the unlucky end of the scale. As a casual player in terms of hours currently spent on the game (blame Starfield for that!) I've done probably three 30 minute harvesting sessions since completing the netch quest and have picked up an ink in one of those sessions. There's no reason why scribing isn't open to casual players, although to what extent it will be of major interest to them is a separate matter.

Aurielle

Tandor wrote: »

In relation to the rarity of ink drops, RNG tends only to get mentioned on forums by those whose experience is at the unlucky end of the scale. As a casual player in terms of hours currently spent on the game (blame Starfield for that!) I've done probably three 30 minute harvesting sessions since completing the netch quest and have picked up an ink in one of those sessions. There's no reason why scribing isn't open to casual players, although to what extent it will be of major interest to them is a separate matter.

With a drop rate this low, yes, RNG is going to be brought up — because many of us will feel “unlucky.” You’ve gotten one ink in 90 minutes of gameplay. Maybe you won’t get one at all in the next 90 minutes of gameplay. Maybe you’ll get two. One way or another, you’ll be severely limited in your ability to experiment with a system that offers thousands of different possible permutations. Maybe after several weeks’ worth of casual playing, you’ll be able to scribe two or three skills. Maybe.

Was that seriously ZOS’s vision for scribing? Create this system that gives players so many different possibilities, and then arbitrarily limit their ability to interact with the system by forcing an incredibly low drop rate on a key ingredient?

Haenk

At least I can confirm "double resource" does work on ink.
Drop rate is rather low, but not completely terrible - since you probably only do very few scribings anyway, it's just a matter of a few days (you do need to pick up resources, though).

xylena_lazarow

Tandor wrote: »

I've done probably three 30 minute harvesting sessions since completing the netch quest and have picked up an ink in one of those sessions.

So that's 1 ink in 90 minutes, and you need 3 for a single spell, so 4.5 hours of picking flowers for a single spell. Since I have 6 alts I'd like to PvP on with up 2-3 spells each, that's 81 hours picking flowers. Two weeks of a real world job, literally thousands of dollars worth of my time, flushed down the toilet being bored stupid instead of enjoying new spells.

No thanks, already paid $40, give me what I paid for, not demand that I work a second job. The time gates are even worse for me personally, ink can be bought with gold, but I certainly did not pay $40 for waiting. They really need to stop catering to "rewards" for the no life grind crowd, and start catering to adults with jobs and families.

frogthroat

Aurielle wrote: »

Wow, so I managed to pick up one (1) ink after 45 minutes of doing surveys and harvesting every crafting node along the way to each survey site.

Surveys don't drop ink. The regular nodes do. And the double harvest CP does work on the normal nodes.

Aurielle

frogthroat wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Wow, so I managed to pick up one (1) ink after 45 minutes of doing surveys and harvesting every crafting node along the way to each survey site.

Surveys don't drop ink. The regular nodes do. And the double harvest CP does work on the normal nodes.

I know that. Read what I posted. I harvested all nodes along the way to each survey site.

TDVM

There is ink, just try to get it, and most likely no ink drops from research cards.

TDVM

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've done probably three 30 minute harvesting sessions since completing the netch quest and have picked up an ink in one of those sessions.

So that's 1 ink in 90 minutes, and you need 3 for a single spell, so 4.5 hours of picking flowers for a single spell. Since I have 6 alts I'd like to PvP on with up 2-3 spells each, that's 81 hours picking flowers. Two weeks of a real world job, literally thousands of dollars worth of my time, flushed down the toilet being bored stupid instead of enjoying new spells.

No thanks, already paid $40, give me what I paid for, not demand that I work a second job. The time gates are even worse for me personally, ink can be bought with gold, but I certainly did not pay $40 for waiting. They really need to stop catering to "rewards" for the no life grind crowd, and start catering to adults with jobs and families.

30 min = 6 inks