Less Grinding..

Dimorphos

Concerning dungeon sets..

Let's say I have a build in mind that needs a certain set from certain dungeon. That dungeon has 3 full dungeon sets. Let's say I even need specific items like dagger and necklace from that particular set. Of course after countless of runs you have only managed to get armor pieces and some random weapon from that set you are looking for and you realize the pieces you need will most likely drop last after many many days/weeks/even months of endless grinding. ( If you are not running as a tank or healer this really becomes a problem hard to digest ). You will lose your motivation to play the game altogether.

Happened to me more than once and most likely for you too..

Why can't we have a dungeon currency system that would let you buy dungeon items. Every run gives you some amount of this currency and you would know for sure that after like 10 runs or so you will get to buy the item you are looking for if you have been unlucky with the drops. This kind of system would bring a lot of sense to collecting dungeon sets. I am not asking to get everything just like that snapping your fingers, but some fair system that would ease the pain. I am sure many of you agree with me so give a thumbs up and let our wishes to be heard !

Kappachi

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Dimorphos

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Set collection book has nothing to do with what I said. I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. I am asking for some amount of relieve for the pain of grinding dungeon sets, because now if you are looking for a dagger for example from a certain set it could very well take months before you see it. I have many times asked people to sell/give items I would need with no luck. Either they didn't answer at all or they too needed them. Other games actually have these kind of currency systems that will allow you to buy dungeon set items from vendor and that you still need to run the dungeons to get the currency. If it takes something away from player to player gold business it is only a good thing. People already try to sell even vampire and werewolf bites etc. Which is stupid. We do not need more such community elements where every trade and activity needs a payment in gold.

katanagirl1

It used to be worse, pure rng. At least you make one step of progress in the sticker book with each run now.

Dimorphos

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It used to be worse, pure rng. At least you make one step of progress in the sticker book with each run now.

Yes but still it might take a very long time and way too many runs to get all the needed pieces, mainly weapons and jewelry are a pain and as I said if you are not running as a tank or healer to get fast ques it might feel a bit too much. Waiting even months and endlessly grinding one dungeon to get the right gear pieces just to try out some build feels wrong. I thought my idea about dungeon set currency system would be gladly accepted by the community..guess i was wrong then and people enjoy the painful grinding.

JonesFPS

Download the PTS- no grind and almost unlimited testing possible.
If that doesnt work for you, get a 3 more people from you friends or guild and go in the specific dungeon on normal a few times- stickerbook will fill in no time.

Amottica

Dimorphos wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Set collection book has nothing to do with what I said. I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. I am asking for some amount of relieve for the pain of grinding dungeon sets, because now if you are looking for a dagger for example from a certain set it could very well take months before you see it. I have many times asked people to sell/give items I would need with no luck. Either they didn't answer at all or they too needed them. Other games actually have these kind of currency systems that will allow you to buy dungeon set items from vendor and that you still need to run the dungeons to get the currency. If it takes something away from player to player gold business it is only a good thing. People already try to sell even vampire and werewolf bites etc. Which is stupid. We do not need more such community elements where every trade and activity needs a payment in gold.

The person quoted noted there has been relief from grinding added to the game.

Originally, we not only had to grind to get the piece we wanted, but it also had to be the correct trait. Then Zenimax added the ability to trade gear drops between those in the group and a means to transmute the trait, followed by the sticker book system that @Kappachi noted.

So, they have made things significantly easier many times over.

In the end, the top devs who have been here since the earliest days of this game's development and run it have said they do not want a currency system like the one suggested in the OP. They have held onto that through development and for ten years yet still made it easier for us to get the sets we wanted.

Kappachi

Amottica wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Set collection book has nothing to do with what I said. I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. I am asking for some amount of relieve for the pain of grinding dungeon sets, because now if you are looking for a dagger for example from a certain set it could very well take months before you see it. I have many times asked people to sell/give items I would need with no luck. Either they didn't answer at all or they too needed them. Other games actually have these kind of currency systems that will allow you to buy dungeon set items from vendor and that you still need to run the dungeons to get the currency. If it takes something away from player to player gold business it is only a good thing. People already try to sell even vampire and werewolf bites etc. Which is stupid. We do not need more such community elements where every trade and activity needs a payment in gold.

The person quoted noted there has been relief from grinding added to the game.

Originally, we not only had to grind to get the piece we wanted, but it also had to be the correct trait. Then Zenimax added the ability to trade gear drops between those in the group and a means to transmute the trait, followed by the sticker book system that @Kappachi noted.

So, they have made things significantly easier many times over.

In the end, the top devs who have been here since the earliest days of this game's development and run it have said they do not want a currency system like the one suggested in the OP. They have held onto that through development and for ten years yet still made it easier for us to get the sets we wanted.

They have been consistently making changes that are in my opinion, meant to keep the traditional value of the MMO spirit alive (they want you to communicate with others) but never so bad that you want to pull your hair out. The stickerbook system still forces interaction if you want weapons from a dungeon, or if you insist on going at it solo it's still a path you can follow and be guaranteed it at some point. I believe the development path they've chosen is the right one as ESO is still the only MMO where you actually communicate with randoms, for 'any' reason... and they give you a lot of reasons which is a good thing.

Necrotech_Master

gear collection + curation already alleviated a massive amount of grinding

it takes a maximum of approx 40-45 dungeon runs to get all the drops for all the sets, if you get 0 treasure chests or trades from other players and then you can just recreate whatever you want in whatever trait you want

katanagirl1

Amottica wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Set collection book has nothing to do with what I said. I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. I am asking for some amount of relieve for the pain of grinding dungeon sets, because now if you are looking for a dagger for example from a certain set it could very well take months before you see it. I have many times asked people to sell/give items I would need with no luck. Either they didn't answer at all or they too needed them. Other games actually have these kind of currency systems that will allow you to buy dungeon set items from vendor and that you still need to run the dungeons to get the currency. If it takes something away from player to player gold business it is only a good thing. People already try to sell even vampire and werewolf bites etc. Which is stupid. We do not need more such community elements where every trade and activity needs a payment in gold.

The person quoted noted there has been relief from grinding added to the game.

Originally, we not only had to grind to get the piece we wanted, but it also had to be the correct trait. Then Zenimax added the ability to trade gear drops between those in the group and a means to transmute the trait, followed by the sticker book system that @Kappachi noted.

So, they have made things significantly easier many times over.

In the end, the top devs who have been here since the earliest days of this game's development and run it have said they do not want a currency system like the one suggested in the OP. They have held onto that through development and for ten years yet still made it easier for us to get the sets we wanted.

Yes I didn’t mention the transmute addition, that significantly reduced times to get the gear you needed as well.

I can’t tell you how many times back in the day that I ran vCoS with randoms in the dungeon finder to get the right weight Velidreth helm for my stamblade. Some of those runs took hours. Sometimes it was all for nothing.

reazea

Grinding is not a good substitute for new content to keep players in game. It just massively increases the frustration levels of the player base. I'm still exhausted thinking about the grind for those style pages during the 10th anniversary grind celebration event.

Amottica

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Set collection book has nothing to do with what I said. I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. I am asking for some amount of relieve for the pain of grinding dungeon sets, because now if you are looking for a dagger for example from a certain set it could very well take months before you see it. I have many times asked people to sell/give items I would need with no luck. Either they didn't answer at all or they too needed them. Other games actually have these kind of currency systems that will allow you to buy dungeon set items from vendor and that you still need to run the dungeons to get the currency. If it takes something away from player to player gold business it is only a good thing. People already try to sell even vampire and werewolf bites etc. Which is stupid. We do not need more such community elements where every trade and activity needs a payment in gold.

The person quoted noted there has been relief from grinding added to the game.

Originally, we not only had to grind to get the piece we wanted, but it also had to be the correct trait. Then Zenimax added the ability to trade gear drops between those in the group and a means to transmute the trait, followed by the sticker book system that @Kappachi noted.

So, they have made things significantly easier many times over.

In the end, the top devs who have been here since the earliest days of this game's development and run it have said they do not want a currency system like the one suggested in the OP. They have held onto that through development and for ten years yet still made it easier for us to get the sets we wanted.

Yes I didn’t mention the transmute addition, that significantly reduced times to get the gear you needed as well.

I can’t tell you how many times back in the day that I ran vCoS with randoms in the dungeon finder to get the right weight Velidreth helm for my stamblade. Some of those runs took hours. Sometimes it was all for nothing.

I cannot imagine the grinding required before Zenimax made any of these changes. The luck of getting the right weapon with the right trait that dropped for you, not someone else in the group, while weapons also competed with jewelry, dropping only on the final boss or from a chest.

I am so glad that it is so much easier to get the gear these days.

MidniteOwl1913

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Why would anyone need a carry for a normal dungeon?

Circuitous

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Why would anyone need a carry for a normal dungeon?

Less a traditional carry and more a guaranteed drop run.

Desiato

Amottica wrote: »

I cannot imagine the grinding required before Zenimax made any of these changes. The luck of getting the right weapon with the right trait that dropped for you, not someone else in the group, while weapons also competed with jewelry, dropping only on the final boss or from a chest.

I am so glad that it is so much easier to get the gear these days.

It wasn't that bad because expectations were different. Players were more willing to compromise with their builds. There wasn't as much of an obsession over getting perfect weapons with perfect traits.

Also, without the set collection, players were more willing to trade or give away items they didn't need.

Plus the reality is that there's not a huge practical difference between weapon types in many cases. It's not like you're going to lose any encounter because you have swords instead of daggers.

shadyjane62

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Why would anyone need a carry for a normal dungeon?

I would. I have never done a dungeon in this game. The last time I did one in wow I kept standing in the red flames to keep my feet warm. It didn't go well.

katanagirl1

Desiato wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I cannot imagine the grinding required before Zenimax made any of these changes. The luck of getting the right weapon with the right trait that dropped for you, not someone else in the group, while weapons also competed with jewelry, dropping only on the final boss or from a chest.

I am so glad that it is so much easier to get the gear these days.

It wasn't that bad because expectations were different. Players were more willing to compromise with their builds. There wasn't as much of an obsession over getting perfect weapons with perfect traits.

Also, without the set collection, players were more willing to trade or give away items they didn't need.

Plus the reality is that there's not a huge practical difference between weapon types in many cases. It's not like you're going to lose any encounter because you have swords instead of daggers.

True, players would trade back then, especially if they already had the gear they needed. However, assuming traits doesn’t matter is assuming the player is a questing, overland casual player. So your blanket statement doesn’t apply to all players.

Also the type of weapon does matter in end game builds for both PvE and PvP just like traits.

Dimorphos

"Plus the reality is that there's not a huge practical difference between weapon types in many cases. It's not like you're going to lose any encounter because you have swords instead of daggers."

Is this person intentionally trolling or what?

This kind of stuff is why I always regret posting anything on public forums. Headache and frustration is what you get out of it.

Amottica

Desiato wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I cannot imagine the grinding required before Zenimax made any of these changes. The luck of getting the right weapon with the right trait that dropped for you, not someone else in the group, while weapons also competed with jewelry, dropping only on the final boss or from a chest.

I am so glad that it is so much easier to get the gear these days.

It wasn't that bad because expectations were different. Players were more willing to compromise with their builds. There wasn't as much of an obsession over getting perfect weapons with perfect traits.

Also, without the set collection, players were more willing to trade or give away items they didn't need.

Plus the reality is that there's not a huge practical difference between weapon types in many cases. It's not like you're going to lose any encounter because you have swords instead of daggers.

Those interested in top performance, the players who run with top groups, thought it was a big deal. Granted, things are different for the top 1% and even the top 10% compared to most of us, but there are still others who want to have the correct traits or weapons of a specific set.

But yes, I agree that the expectations would be different. Those expectations were that it would be an extremely long grind to get the right VMA weapon in a good trait or a Burning Spellweave staff in a good trait. Until then, one had to improvise with a smaller build. Of course, a top player is not a top player because of their gear, but the gearing does add to what they can do.

Those top players work hard to squeeze every point of damage out of their character. For them, there is a practical difference. Granted, how they approach the game is the reason why they reach numbers most players cannot come close to obtaining. For them, it is not about losing an encounter. It is about being on top of the leaderboard.

With that, there are still many players who are not in the top 10 percent who still want the best. They do not care if someone thinks it is unnecessary or not making "a huge practical difference."

So, yeah, the changes were a significant positive for those who are interested in gearing up to their best, whether they are top players or just want to do what they can to improve.

gariondavey

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655695/what-is-the-best-solution-for-farming-weapons-in-dungeons/p1

GeneralGrundmann

I get where the OP is coming from and I respect that.

For me, the system how it is, works just fine.

On normal even the newest DLC dungeons take around 20 minutes to complete solo. And sometimes there are drops from monsters and/or chests.

It took me 38 and 40 runs for the last two dlc dungeons. Each dungeon approximately 13 hours. I played 2-3 hours a day. So, even with a few days off without playing at all, after two weeks I got the all the sets from both dungeons.

For me, that's totally acceptable. But if you have less available playtime and still want this one weapon from this special set I understand that you would prefer other options to achieve your goal faster.

katanagirl1

I am just commenting here to represent the end game community for PvE and PvP, of which I participate. I don’t want to come across as someone who hits insane numbers on the trial dummy and insists that everyone else do so. I’m still working on it, and would love to not chase the meta but that is a part of being in a group.

The rest of the time I run around on my stamblade with a five year old weapons skill build and sneak armor because I like it that way.

I am also still working on my sticker book after avoiding dlc dungeons and the queue for a long time. The grind has been improved but it still does take a while.

Desiato

Dimorphos wrote: »

"Plus the reality is that there's not a huge practical difference between weapon types in many cases. It's not like you're going to lose any encounter because you have swords instead of daggers."

Is this person intentionally trolling or what?

This kind of stuff is why I always regret posting anything on public forums. Headache and frustration is what you get out of it.

For the vast majority of players, what I posted is true. I'm not talking about trifecta progression groups. But even the average vet trial player isn't going to be significantly hampered and it will barely lower the ceiling of their group.

It's not like I'm running trials with swords instead of daggers. I don't mind putting in the extra effort. But if I didn't, I would still have fundamentally the same experience and so would most others.

Amottica wrote: »

Those top players work hard to squeeze every point of damage out of their character. For them, there is a practical difference. Granted, how they approach the game is the reason why they reach numbers most players cannot come close to obtaining. For them, it is not about losing an encounter. It is about being on top of the leaderboard.

I understand these things very well. My point stands though. Actual top players in crafted purple would outperform the average player in gold perfected gear in trials. Of course they're going to optimize builds as part of the larger picture of doing everything possible to be as successful as possible.

I remember back in ESO 2.2, I was unwilling to do the vMA grind, so I settled on a defending greataxe which happened to work pretty well backbar in pvp. I still benefited from the dot. I think I had a charged vMA bow and that was fine for the pve content I was doing. Maybe at some point I had a suboptimal vMA resto staff which was great in another pvp build. I still valued those items as much as I value the infused vMA back bar weapons I reconstruct today. Actually, I valued them even more then because they were MUCH more difficult to obtain.

There's a reason why games have progression elements and we lose something when the floor and the ceiling come too close together without really gaining very much.

Amottica

Desiato wrote: »

Dimorphos wrote: »

"Plus the reality is that there's not a huge practical difference between weapon types in many cases. It's not like you're going to lose any encounter because you have swords instead of daggers."

Is this person intentionally trolling or what?

This kind of stuff is why I always regret posting anything on public forums. Headache and frustration is what you get out of it.

For the vast majority of players, what I posted is true. I'm not talking about trifecta progression groups. But even the average vet trial player isn't going to be significantly hampered and it will barely lower the ceiling of their group.

It's not like I'm running trials with swords instead of daggers. I don't mind putting in the extra effort. But if I didn't, I would still have fundamentally the same experience and so would most others.

Amottica wrote: »

Those top players work hard to squeeze every point of damage out of their character. For them, there is a practical difference. Granted, how they approach the game is the reason why they reach numbers most players cannot come close to obtaining. For them, it is not about losing an encounter. It is about being on top of the leaderboard.

I understand these things very well. My point stands though. Actual top players in crafted purple would outperform the average player in gold perfected gear in trials. Of course they're going to optimize builds as part of the larger picture of doing everything possible to be as successful as possible.

I remember back in ESO 2.2, I was unwilling to do the vMA grind, so I settled on a defending greataxe which happened to work pretty well backbar in pvp. I still benefited from the dot. I think I had a charged vMA bow and that was fine for the pve content I was doing. Maybe at some point I had a suboptimal vMA resto staff which was great in another pvp build. I still valued those items as much as I value the infused vMA back bar weapons I reconstruct today. Actually, I valued them even more then because they were MUCH more difficult to obtain.

There's a reason why games have progression elements and we lose something when the floor and the ceiling come too close together without really gaining very much.

I agree that the top player wearing purple-crafted gear and even the wrong traits would outperform most players in the game, even if those players were using the most optimal builds. In ESO, the difference between the top 5% and those around the top 25% is huge. But that is not the point.

However, my comment accurately pointed out that the top 1%, even the top 10%, and many others would disagree that there was no obsession with getting the perfect weapon with perfect traits. A great many players ran the same dungeon and VMA over and over again to get the perfect weapon with a perfect trait.

ESO brought about the means to trade drops between those in your group and then added the ability to transmute the trait on gear, all in response to players complaining about the grind. This would not have happened without enough players obsessing over getting that perfect weapon and trait.

And, of course, I know some players are just not interested. None of this is to suggest that everyone is obsessed. However, it is inaccurate to say that a number of players were not obsessed back in the day when there were. The same players who wanted it back then still want it today. It has just become easier and, as such, has become more accessible for those who are and have never been as interested.

Desiato

Amottica wrote: »

ESO brought about the means to trade drops between those in your group and then added the ability to transmute the trait on gear, all in response to players complaining about the grind. This would not have happened without enough players obsessing over getting that perfect weapon and trait.

I didn't say there was no interest or no complaints. I said it wasn't actually that bad. Players in this forum, like the OP, are still still obsessed with making things easier. There will always be players like that until progress is eliminated entirely. And those who asked for it won't be any happier.

At some point, if it hasn't already happened, the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater.

Most of those who complained aren't actually that much farther ahead as a result of the changes and we've lost progression depth and diversity as a result.

frogthroat

Others already mentioned the quality of life features - sticker book, curated drops, transmute system and in-group trading - but sure, it's still a bit grindy. Sometimes you have to play the game to play the game.

If you only want sets from a specific dungeon, it's max 45 runs. 23 if you take advantage of those double drop events. I had some in my sticker book but during one of those double drop events I grinded all dungeon gear. I don't usually play a tank, but I made a tank build for dungeon set grinding. As a tank you don't queue. It all depends on what you want and what you are willing to do for it. I wanted all dungeons done and I was willing to play a role I am not familiar with. Now I have every single set piece from every single dungeon. Sure, wasn't the most fun, but now it's done and I can recreate any piece I want in any trait.

So the question is, do you really want those items and if so, what are you willing to do for them?

I mean, this right here:

Desiato wrote: »

There's a reason why games have progression elements and we lose something when the floor and the ceiling come too close together without really gaining very much.

Exactly. With curated drops, transmute system and sticker book every single run is progress. Might be a grind, but even a wrong weapon from a wrong set still gets you closer to the weapon you were looking for.

Blood_again

Dimorphos wrote: »

Concerning dungeon sets..

Let's say I have a build in mind that needs a certain set from certain dungeon. That dungeon has 3 full dungeon sets. Let's say I even need specific items like dagger and necklace from that particular set. Of course after countless of runs you have only managed to get armor pieces and some random weapon from that set you are looking for and you realize the pieces you need will most likely drop last after many many days/weeks/even months of endless grinding.

I see you are struggling with 66-item dungeons. However you may obtain weapons and jewellery from treasure chests there, not from last boss only. So you actually don't need pure 45 runs to get the full set collection. You'll get them way earlier.
It takes about 30-35 times per dungeon by my statistics, without double drop events. Also only 3 vet runs are neccessary for hats, the rest is available in normal.

Well, one day you'll meet the DLC 176-item trials. While 88 non-perfected items may be obtained from chests too, the perfected ones are boss only drop. That means you have to kill last boss in such vet trial 60 times to get your perfected collection full.
60 times more for another vet trial etc.

Would you like to offer some currency system for vet trials too?

Amottica

Desiato wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ESO brought about the means to trade drops between those in your group and then added the ability to transmute the trait on gear, all in response to players complaining about the grind. This would not have happened without enough players obsessing over getting that perfect weapon and trait.

I didn't say there was no interest or no complaints. I said it wasn't actually that bad. Players in this forum, like the OP, are still still obsessed with making things easier. There will always be players like that until progress is eliminated entirely. And those who asked for it won't be any happier.

At some point, if it hasn't already happened, the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater.

Most of those who complained aren't actually that much farther ahead as a result of the changes and we've lost progression depth and diversity as a result.

The earlier comment was that

Desiato wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I cannot imagine the grinding required before Zenimax made any of these changes. The luck of getting the right weapon with the right trait that dropped for you, not someone else in the group, while weapons also competed with jewelry, dropping only on the final boss or from a chest.

I am so glad that it is so much easier to get the gear these days.

It wasn't that bad because expectations were different. Players were more willing to compromise with their builds. There wasn't as much of an obsession over getting perfect weapons with perfect traits.

Granted, it comes down to perspective, and some were more than willing to compromise. Some were not even able to clear vMA, let alone get the right weapon and trait.

However, many were unwilling to compromise, demonstrated by the hours upon hours of grinding they did in specific dungeons and vMA.

For many, the only change in perspective was the effort and time needed to obtain the weapon of choice with the right trait.

Desiato

Amottica wrote: »

Granted, it comes down to perspective, and some were more than willing to compromise. Some were not even able to clear vMA, let alone get the right weapon and trait.

However, many were unwilling to compromise, demonstrated by the hours upon hours of grinding they did in specific dungeons and vMA.

For many, the only change in perspective was the effort and time needed to obtain the weapon of choice with the right trait.

I was speaking generally, not accounting for every single player and I'm looking at it in purely practical terms.

I did a lot of intensive theorycrafting back then and the benefits of optimal traits were often minor and truly not with the extra effort in most cases.

Even now, top theorycrafters often point this out to, I think, break players out of a cookie cutter mindset. The need for perceived perfection is more emotional than it is practical. In a recent discord discussion, there was some thought suboptimal traits were significantly affected a dummy parse, but someone broke out the math to show them that it was barely a factor.

Of course, score pushing is a completely different scenario because every second counts; but this affects a tiny minority of players and I've never seen one of them stressed about the current state of their gear collections.

kargen27

Dimorphos wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

There's already the stickerbook system and it works far more effectively than any other method while still giving items value. People will sell carries if you want a specific weapon from a dungeon, there's an economy there.

Every time you queue the dungeon, tell people what speciifc items you want and how much gold you're willing to pay, there's a community element to this and a dungeon currency system would be bad.

Set collection book has nothing to do with what I said. I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. I am asking for some amount of relieve for the pain of grinding dungeon sets, because now if you are looking for a dagger for example from a certain set it could very well take months before you see it. I have many times asked people to sell/give items I would need with no luck. Either they didn't answer at all or they too needed them. Other games actually have these kind of currency systems that will allow you to buy dungeon set items from vendor and that you still need to run the dungeons to get the currency. If it takes something away from player to player gold business it is only a good thing. People already try to sell even vampire and werewolf bites etc. Which is stupid. We do not need more such community elements where every trade and activity needs a payment in gold.

The sticker book is the relief. Before the sticker book I ran one dungeon near 140 times to get a staff I wanted. A lot of those was with a group that were all seeking weapons so we would sprint to final boss, kill final boss, reset and repeat. When the group started we all were looking for the staff. Sticker book is easy mode.

Amottica

Desiato wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Granted, it comes down to perspective, and some were more than willing to compromise. Some were not even able to clear vMA, let alone get the right weapon and trait.

However, many were unwilling to compromise, demonstrated by the hours upon hours of grinding they did in specific dungeons and vMA.

For many, the only change in perspective was the effort and time needed to obtain the weapon of choice with the right trait.

I was speaking generally, not accounting for every single player and I'm looking at it in purely practical terms.

Since the comment did not suggest otherwise I pointed out that there was a large number of players that would disagree. Heck, much of the rest likely did not care enough to begin with as there are all sorts of interests in an MMORPG.

Glad you agree.