Abysmal drop rates, why even bother?

Luthivar

Dear ZOS,
i am seriously annoyed from the devastatingly low drop rates in your game. Currently having bad luck with the Zaudrus' Mask style page, after 20 runs, even with the corresponding achievement, I lost hope of finding it. 20 runs means about 7 hours of mindless farming, doing the same content over and over again. How can this be considered fun? What makes it even worse is the time limit of one week.

And that's just one symptom of the main problem in this game, at least in PVE: It does not feel rewarding. Extremely low drop rates for purple furnishing plans, increasing amount of units needed for chapter collectibles (pets), low drop rates on some leads (only those from bosses and dailies seem fine), low availability of dragon's breath, furnishing mats, etc. The grind totally keeps me from doing the fun stuff like questing, as it leaves me disappointed, demotivated and finally leads to me closing the game. Even levelling several skill lines on alts is bound to an unbearable grind.

Why does ESO have to be the love-hate relationship it became during the last years? Why does it have to keep it players busy - or better spoken: distracted - with boring activities, heavily connected to it's weaker parts like the clunky combat system or movement (where even mounts can't jump over the smallest pebbles)?

joe_schmo

If you got everything faster you'd be done with the game faster. They make it this way so they can keep you playing forever.

EF321

Just buy it then? It's tradable.

twev

EF321 wrote: »

Just buy it then? It's tradable.

Not a particularly satisfying procedure for players who prefer to play/earn achievements rather than buy achievements.

Warhawke_80

twev wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Just buy it then? It's tradable.

Not a particularly satisfying procedure for players who prefer to play/earn achievements rather than buy achievements.

This game isn't optimal for that play style....

Inucham

33 runs, 7 no death, 5 hm , 33 suick runs, no motifs,

is it buggued like the one last year that didnt drop for 5 days or what???

im not event farminggg to sell it like always i actually want it on the account.

could someone check its drop rate or if its buggued ?

DragonRacer

It’s definitely not bugged. At least not on PS NA. At the risk of being instantly hated or not believed, I tanked it last night with three friends at their request. I had not done that dungeon at all, not even on normal. We did vet hard mode first run and I actually got the mask. You can even see me getting the first-timer trophy and bust for the completion.

We ran normal vet three more times. The second run, one of my friends got it. On the third run, her boyfriend got it. We were all kinda in absolute shock at the RNG we were seeing and did a fourth run hoping the last group member would get it. She didn’t, so we called it a night.

We’ll try again tonight for that last friend.

Luthivar

EF321 wrote: »

Just buy it then? It's tradable.

Nothing new under the sun. Substitutes grind with grind. The style page starts at 3 mio on PC EU currently, that's months of crafting dailies on several alts or weeks of farming mats. Either running from one loading screen into another or running from node to node. No, thank you, I'd rather wait for it to appear at Filer Ool (which still means visiting his shop every week just for this one style to appear, hoping it doesn't appear during my summer vacation) or not get it at all.

Drop rates on monster mask styles would even be fine, if they weren't time-limited. That's where the frustration comes from.

Content like that doesn't keep players interested. Right before the new chapter I feel burnt out when it comes to ESO and need a break. Again this year. Which is unneccessary and can't be the goal on ZOS' side. Supposedly.

LordGavus

Took me 26 runs for it to drop. That's with the HM achievement. Then I got another 4 runs later.
One of my friends had it drop on their second run. Then 2 of my friends got it on their third run, in the same run. Gotta love that rng.

HatchetHaro

Luthivar wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Just buy it then? It's tradable.

Nothing new under the sun. Substitutes grind with grind. The style page starts at 3 mio on PC EU currently, that's months of crafting dailies on several alts or weeks of farming mats. Either running from one loading screen into another or running from node to node. No, thank you, I'd rather wait for it to appear at Filer Ool (which still means visiting his shop every week just for this one style to appear, hoping it doesn't appear during my summer vacation) or not get it at all.

Drop rates on monster mask styles would even be fine, if they weren't time-limited. That's where the frustration comes from.

Content like that doesn't keep players interested. Right before the new chapter I feel burnt out when it comes to ESO and need a break. Again this year. Which is unneccessary and can't be the goal on ZOS' side. Supposedly.

Just as an addendum, the profit in value you get from completing max level writs on 20 characters is about 1.25mil gold per day. That value mostly consists of materials you get back in the form of surveys.

DragonRacer

Two runs tonight and got our final group member the style page. So 4 pages in 6 total runs.

Thinking my RNG is used up for the rest of the year now.

Sakiri

Most folks want it to sell, not use.

MidniteOwl1913

Just out curiosity, I checked the prices PSNA, average was 1.5 million. On the console that's a lot of gold. Most players don't have that.

FlopsyPrince

joe_schmo wrote: »

If you got everything faster you'd be done with the game faster. They make it this way so they can keep you playing forever.

This is a stupid reason to have horrid drop rates. Most people can't dedicate their life to one small part of any game. Make challenges interesting, not just hoping you can "roll 1 out of 100"!

fizzylu

This is how I feel about those bound fragments for the Captain Kaleen houseguest.... been trying to get them for about a year now and I'm still only at like 2 or 3 out of 10.

Elsonso

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

joe_schmo wrote: »

If you got everything faster you'd be done with the game faster. They make it this way so they can keep you playing forever.

This is a stupid reason to have horrid drop rates. Most people can't dedicate their life to one small part of any game. Make challenges interesting, not just hoping you can "roll 1 out of 100"!

Not really that stupid, actually.

If players could get everything they wanted in a short amount of time, they would either wander off and play something else, or sit around and complain about there being nothing left to do.

Honestly, the answer is to not grind for stuff you don't really want, and as part of that, decide not to really want everything that is available in the game.

If you like doing some activity in the game, or there are multiple reasons to be doing something in the game, do it until it is no longer fun, and then stop. If you get the thing-a-ma-jiggy, great. If you don't, you don't.

I didn't get the whatever-style they were dropping from geysers during that forgettable event that happened earlier this year. I Did the first 6 to get the map marker to change, which is why I picked geysers. I did the next few to fill personal goals, like learning the pattern that the geysers triggered and the pattern of how the mobs appeared. After that, geysers got boring and I stopped. I probably did 20 of them. I don't remember.

The cynic in me expected ZOS to roll out a graphic saying how "successful" that event was and giving the number of geysers that were done as a metric. They didn't, at least not that I saw, but there is still time.

Inucham

41 runs now , im on EU pc,

no drop whatsoever, 1 of my mates got it on the 38 run.

i carried so many pugs ont this that am actually annoyed about the drop rate.

if rng is just the worst tier, cant we have a guaranted drop on 30 or 40th run???

this is so dam wrong

Luthivar

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Just as an addendum, the profit in value you get from completing max level writs on 20 characters is about 1.25mil gold per day. That value mostly consists of materials you get back in the form of surveys.

So basically, buying and levelling another 7 chars, checking skyshards, doing pledges and group dungeons and then doing writs for at least 1,5h per day plus collecting surveys is your recipe against the unbearable ingame grind. Casual players don't have 20 chars, even the 13 I already have, are too many and only half of them actively played. Well, ESO isn't for casual players anymore, thanks for underlining that point.

OT: On which server are you playing on to make 1.25 mil a day, even with 20 chars? Did 15x7 myself today (only accepted the quests yesterday as I don't want to spend my sundays playing videogames). Got 150k gold due to the event, could get another 200k from golden mats and got 6 (!) surveys. Was really lucky today when it comes to master writs, could sell 300 vouchers for 150k. Usually I only get golden jewelry writs and some purples. Still, nowhere in the range of 1.25 mil.
My original calculation was based on doing crafting dailies on 6 chars (30 mins for an undoudbtedly boring and braindead activity), without the event (30k gold per day, 100-120k including golden mats). If you're playing each day of the month, which obviously most people can't afford to do, 3 mil for a style page would still be around 1 month of grind. For a single style page. Congrats, if you do so, I won't. Simply can't and don't want to.

Don't want to whine about not getting that style page, and I most probably won't. I just would like the ESO staff to reflect over the extremely low - and time-limited on top - drop rates and their effect on player motivation, in general. Right before I take another break just before a chapter release, which I even bought already.

KiltMaster

Just got mine after 50+ runs, and I'm happy to have grinded it. Feels rewarding instead of just being handed something.

EdjeSwift

Luthivar wrote: »

So basically, buying and levelling another 7 chars, checking skyshards, doing pledges and group dungeons and then doing writs for at least 1,5h per day plus collecting surveys is your recipe against the unbearable ingame grind. Casual players don't have 20 chars, even the 13 I already have, are too many and only half of them actively played. Well, ESO isn't for casual players anymore, thanks for underlining that point.

OT: On which server are you playing on to make 1.25 mil a day, even with 20 chars? Did 15x7 myself today (only accepted the quests yesterday as I don't want to spend my sundays playing videogames). Got 150k gold due to the event, could get another 200k from golden mats and got 6 (!) surveys. Was really lucky today when it comes to master writs, could sell 300 vouchers for 150k. Usually I only get golden jewelry writs and some purples. Still, nowhere in the range of 1.25 mil.
My original calculation was based on doing crafting dailies on 6 chars (30 mins for an undoudbtedly boring and braindead activity), without the event (30k gold per day, 100-120k including golden mats). If you're playing each day of the month, which obviously most people can't afford to do, 3 mil for a style page would still be around 1 month of grind. For a single style page. Congrats, if you do so, I won't. Simply can't and don't want to.

Don't want to whine about not getting that style page, and I most probably won't. I just would like the ESO staff to reflect over the extremely low - and time-limited on top - drop rates and their effect on player motivation, in general. Right before I take another break just before a chapter release, which I even bought already.

For the first point regarding casual gameplay. This mask only drops from a Veteran DLC dungeon, most casual players as you're calling them, aren't bothering with that.

As for your writ question, you did it on 15 characters, so let's multiply the numbers by 1.33 to make up for the missing 5 characters.

150k X 1.33 = 200k gold
200k x 1.33 = 266k gold
300 vouchers x 1.33 = 399 Vouchers

If you do the writs instead of selling them and then flip them for attunable crafting stations which sell for 250 writ vouchers a pop and can be sold for about 500k; that's:
(399/250) X 500k = 798k

For a total of : 1,264,000. Sure, a lot of it relies on RNG and such, but it's not completely unfeasible. These numbers are based on the PC NA server btw.

CrashTest

💯

The soul crushing RNG in almost everything is why I've just stopped doing a lot of things in this game and treat ESO like a side game instead of a main game.

It's funny bc people will defend the atrocious RNG by saying it makes you play more. No. It just makes you stop playing all together.

DoofusMax

Probably an unpopular stance on this, but why do it if it's not fun? There's semi-serious farming and then there's obsession. I figure that if whatever I was after hasn't dropped after an hour or two, then it's time to move on to something else and maybe come back again (much) later. RNG is a harsh mistress in the best of cases, but there is a point at which trying to hit a low chance turns into making the lottery the centerpiece of your retirement planning.

Luthivar

EdjeSwift wrote: »

For the first point regarding casual gameplay. This mask only drops from a Veteran DLC dungeon, most casual players as you're calling them, aren't bothering with that.

As for your writ question, you did it on 15 characters, so let's multiply the numbers by 1.33 to make up for the missing 5 characters.

150k X 1.33 = 200k gold
200k x 1.33 = 266k gold
300 vouchers x 1.33 = 399 Vouchers

If you do the writs instead of selling them and then flip them for attunable crafting stations which sell for 250 writ vouchers a pop and can be sold for about 500k; that's:
(399/250) X 500k = 798k

For a total of : 1,264,000. Sure, a lot of it relies on RNG and such, but it's not completely unfeasible. These numbers are based on the PC NA server btw.

I tend to call casual gamers those who play around 10 hours a week. Who play when they want to and not because they feel like they have to. Not necessarily the average gamer in terms of "ability" or progress affinity. But I admit, that's my interpretation and it may vary between different individuals. The described however will have the feeling of running into a wall in ESO. It takes this long to achieve 1 shiny that you don't even know where to start. The result is resignation instead of motivation.

The attunable stations sell for round about 250k each on PC EU. You completely forgot to calculate the value of the mats that I need to do those and the fact that I had a lucky day with chars that completed quite some motif sets.
But as I already mentioned, that's off topic, because it is no alternative to grind, but it's grind itself. There aren't many activities in ESO that don't rely on grind anymore. Even quests became grindy or repetitive during the last years (either type of activity requested, or running through the same instance for several quests, even 2 or more times for the main questline).
If it weren't for housing, I wouldn't play at all anymore. And even that's pretty lackluster, but OT.

Did another 20 runs this evening, still no luck. Around 40 runs, no style page, check, lesson learned, at least for now.
That's just the cherry on top, even though I had my fun, the whole game is grindy, non-rewarding, and relying on repetitive content as "end-game". Pretty much the core of my criticism. But on the other hand it's beautiful, in most parts pretty relaxing and challenging when you want it to be, has Elder Scrolls lore and no gear spiral. New sets can even be worse than existing ones, which is part of the problem again, that it doesn't feel rewarding. What shall I say, a typical hate-love relationship, which deserves its interruptions but its overall loyalty, too.

VisitHammerfell

I got it first run (but not again). Just bad RNG, sorry. The real bad RNG are these Torc of the Last Ayleid King leads. The mask is pretty cheap right now and if you don't wanna buy bc you wanna earn it, that's a choice you make, and not a bug on ZoS' behalf.

Daoin

no i dont think theres something wrong with the drop rate personally, was going to try for number 5 before the event ended not sure though. but if after a handful of visits i dont find one one i just try again later in the day or another day or hop in and out of eso for a couple of runs, likely on a different character so i dont get too bored. then if i do get one on a day i just tell myself there must be a cooldown and try another day, except if im in the mood for playing with others again in that particular dungeon with no expectations for a mask style. by the events end i usually just give any spares to friends that may not have been interested in looking for the mask style, sell them or just bank them for use later as gifts or something. to be honest having very little interest in pvp or trifecta groups these little mask style pages are a great time filler. i would say not to go to the same dungeons too many times a day to try, just keep reminding yourself the same event will come around again and if its not meant to be thats that this time around

LaintalAy

DoofusMax wrote: »

Probably an unpopular stance on this, but why do it if it's not fun? There's semi-serious farming and then there's obsession. I figure that if whatever I was after hasn't dropped after an hour or two, then it's time to move on to something else and maybe come back again (much) later. RNG is a harsh mistress in the best of cases, but there is a point at which trying to hit a low chance turns into making the lottery the centerpiece of your retirement planning.

^ This. All of it.

fizzylu

LaintalAy wrote: »

DoofusMax wrote: »

Probably an unpopular stance on this, but why do it if it's not fun? There's semi-serious farming and then there's obsession. I figure that if whatever I was after hasn't dropped after an hour or two, then it's time to move on to something else and maybe come back again (much) later. RNG is a harsh mistress in the best of cases, but there is a point at which trying to hit a low chance turns into making the lottery the centerpiece of your retirement planning.

^ This. All of it.

I also sometimes like to take it to the next level and entirely lose interest in the thing I wanted so I never have to farm for it again.

katanagirl1

I don’t buy the argument that if it was easier to get, people would just stop playing.

New things to grind for are constantly being added to the game. If you get more than one then you can sell the extras. I always keep the first of everything for myself.

Elyu

CrashTest wrote: »

It's funny bc people will defend the atrocious RNG by saying it makes you play more. No. It just makes you stop playing all together.

^^^this.

I've said this before on other threads and I'll say it again here:

Good game design rewards effort + skill, which increases satisfaction.
Thus ideal game design is more effort = more reward.

So in this scenario, more effort = harder dungeon mode, with hardest being vet trifecta (vet mode + speedrun + no death + hard mode) which should GUARANTEE the style page drop.
Thus, groups capable of running the dungeon on trifecta would be incentivised to repeat trifecta runs in order to obatin the style mask to sell.

Thus more effort, more reward would incentivise players to engage with the game, as opposed to the current RNG system (in it's many guises throughout the game - mythic leads anyone?) which frustrates players to the point at which they quit the game entirely rather than continue the grind.

Edit: Much like how the Infinite Archive functions (at least it's rewards) - the further you progress the more currency you obtain, and all the rewards are available to purchase via the currency.

WiseSky

As much as I dont like not getting the drop, it makes it that much better when it actually drops !

I think in Runescape there are things that are like 1 chance in 10K, lets be glad that is not the norm.

The mask is a valuable as an Aetheric Cipher, I pray to Mara that you dont try to loot that one and ask the devs for a nerf.

Just be glad that you can buy it on the traders and that is not bound like this Anniversary Event Styles pages where 1K Gysers was not enough for some.

Jaimeh

I ran it about 18 times and didn't drop the page, so in my case the RNG was pretty bad. At least it's not not a very long dungeon, I did it with groups from the finder and the runs were pretty fast. It's just so boring and numbing having to do the same content back to back for ages with no reward, at least if there was a token system we would know there's light at the end of the tunnel A person in one of my runs got the page and said it was their 5th overall so I guess RNG was RNGing. I'll wait for the next time it comes back to the game because prices have already gone up really high in the traders, but I'm with the OP on this one, I wish the rates had been higher.