Shadow Cloak question

Fantalior · May 16

Guys, is there anything that makes Shadow Cloak and generally hidden players targetable and visible? A blue Sorc has had the situation twice now where he got a curse on me even though I was 25 meters away and I was clearly marked as hidden (i.e. closed eye symbol). It was a solo Sorc in the Imperial City who captured points for the blue alliance.
Well-known sets and abilities have a smaller reveal radius and also display this.
Who can help me or explain the trick

If it is a set/potion, it should be nerfed immediately and, like similar abilities, only have a small radius and be accompanied by a warning... something like that is ridiculous and harms class balance.

<edited Title and Post to remain within Community Rules>

vsrs_au · May 16

It might have been the Mages Guild skill 'Magelight', which reveals stealthed and invisible enemies around you for 6 seconds. It has 2 morphs: 'Inner Light' with radius 6m, and 'Radiant Magelight' with radius 12m.

Fantalior · May 16

Yes, that is a possibility, at least if the skill is currently bugged so that its range is greater and has a display error for the affected counterpart.

Vaqual · May 16

I lost track of the exact number, but aren't detect pots 45 m now? Should be easily possible to spot you 25 m away.

Sluggy · May 16

And Sentry is like 100 meters from the user of the set. Far larger than the range of any skill in the game.

Dragonnord · May 16

Fantalior wrote: »

If it is a set/potion, it should be nerfed immediately

Detection potions received a nerfed already, as they were buffed to 100 meters and then nerfed to 45 (or so) meters.

kringled_1 · May 16

I would guess it's detect pots; magelight reveals are really obvious to the formerly hidden player as you have a glowing dot orbiting you until the effect is over.

Wolfkeks · May 16

Detection pots have a range of 43.5 meters. Even if you are wearing 7 pieces of medium armor to reduce your detection radius the radius is more than 25 meters.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 16

My past experience in IC is kinda similar. I have had players using single target skills on me that required them to detect me, yet I was hidden (closed eye icon). What should happen is that I should hear the audio effect that informs about crouch stealth / invisibility being interupted and then at least split second later I should be attacked / targeted with single target skill/ult. That did not happen & I was somehow targeted by single target skill & the "eye" icon remained close nor did I heard audio effect.

Stuff like this started to happen since last change to detection potions (as far as I remember it was a buff of some sort, can't remember what they changed aside from range). But the thing is that buff itself would not cause those to detect stuff without target being aware that some one can see them. They must have changed something else & I suspect that detected potions are bugged in some way as stuff like this never happened before.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Detection potions received a nerfed already, as they were buffed to 100 meters and then nerfed to 45 (or so) meters.

I think 100 meters was only on PTS. They reduced it to "only" 45 meters before it went live.

Fantalior · May 16

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Detection pots have a range of 43.5 meters. Even if you are wearing 7 pieces of medium armor to reduce your detection radius the radius is more than 25 meters.

Well then the matter is clear ZOS please fix the bug with the potion the player reveals and it doesn't signal it to the revealed ones.

RexyCat · May 16

Fantalior wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Detection pots have a range of 43.5 meters. Even if you are wearing 7 pieces of medium armor to reduce your detection radius the radius is more than 25 meters.

Well then the matter is clear ZOS please fix the bug with the potion the player reveals and it doesn't signal it to the revealed ones.

Make a video and make sure to remove all names (either hide by toggle name tags off in game settings or edit video before uploading) as your video is only to show that there is a bug and let devs know how it work to figure out why this is happening.

Right now there isn't enough information for devs to really know what could have happened, if it is potions, skills or anything else that is bugged or if there is someone using cheating apps to detect players that should have been hidden and not possible to target.

ApoAlaia · May 16

RexyCat wrote: »

Fantalior wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Detection pots have a range of 43.5 meters. Even if you are wearing 7 pieces of medium armor to reduce your detection radius the radius is more than 25 meters.

Well then the matter is clear ZOS please fix the bug with the potion the player reveals and it doesn't signal it to the revealed ones.

Make a video and make sure to remove all names (either hide by toggle name tags off in game settings or edit video before uploading) as your video is only to show that there is a bug and let devs know how it work to figure out why this is happening.

Right now there isn't enough information for devs to really know what could have happened, if it is potions, skills or anything else that is bugged or if there is someone using cheating apps to detect players that should have been hidden and not possible to target.

This behaviour has been known for years.

Here is a thread on the subject from a couple of years ago.

The devs did not alter the behaviour of the detect potions when they altered the radius therefore this is not a bug, is a feature.

cyclonus11 · May 16

Detect pots. I always love the absolute surprise reactions when I drink one and spot an enemy. Like they're completely unprepared for this scenario. It's especially funny to me when they cast cloak and try to back away.

ApoAlaia · May 16

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Detect pots. I always love the absolute surprise reactions when I drink one and spot an enemy. Like they're completely unprepared for this scenario. It's especially funny to me when they cast cloak and try to back away.

In fairness detect pots are unique in this behaviour, that one will get no visual cues whatsoever in the UI that one has been... well, detected.

Unless the player is familiar with this peculiarity I can see why they'd be surprised.

Given the endless stream of threads on the subject of NBs and their cloaks it is entirely possible that many players may remain unaware of how these pots behave.

Shadow-Fighter · May 16

Fantalior wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Detection pots have a range of 43.5 meters. Even if you are wearing 7 pieces of medium armor to reduce your detection radius the radius is more than 25 meters.

Well then the matter is clear ZOS please fix the bug with the potion the player reveals and it doesn't signal it to the revealed ones.

If its only be the one thing... There is so many things that should be fixed while sneaking, stealth, cloaking, etc.

Just_Attivi · May 16

Detect pots dont affect your 'Hidden' icon, so anyone who uses their detect/sorcery pots on cooldown does get random 15 second windows of seeing all the sneaks close by (cant tell you how many times I have been called a cheat because I drank my buff potion and saw a stealther lol). in this sense though, you will think you are 'hidden' when in reality whoever drank the potion can see you plain as day. with the stealther in all medium (someone can check the math/racial passives/set bonuses/CP etc if anyone cares that much) detection range with a pot is a similar range to most 28 meter skills.

someone correct me if im wrong, but I believe a player actively using invisibility (shadow cloak, vamp stage 4, invis pots) this detection range is brought down to 20 meters from the base 43.5, and is then modified further by armor/passives/CP/etc, but a detect pot will still reveal invis players within like 12-ish meters.

I dont have addons measuring distances, so all measures are estimates based on lagrodiil and targetable skills in my personal experiences.

DrNukenstein · May 16

But it should still have a ramping cost lol

silky_soft · May 16

So detect pots act like mark target now? (Left the game for a while), that's broken <snip>. Explains a lot of <snip>that certain sorcs can do. Not seen other class do it. Wouldn't be suprised if sorcs had the ability too see through cloak. They can do everything else without penalty.

<snipped for Cursing/Profanity>

katanagirl1 · May 17

ApoAlaia wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Detect pots. I always love the absolute surprise reactions when I drink one and spot an enemy. Like they're completely unprepared for this scenario. It's especially funny to me when they cast cloak and try to back away.

In fairness detect pots are unique in this behaviour, that one will get no visual cues whatsoever in the UI that one has been... well, detected.

Unless the player is familiar with this peculiarity I can see why they'd be surprised.

Given the endless stream of threads on the subject of NBs and their cloaks it is entirely possible that many players may remain unaware of how these pots behave.

That’s interesting to know. When I use the new detect pots I see a red eye over my head, I just assumed the target could see it too.

Just_Attivi · May 17

so with detect pots vs cloak:

Yes, they can detect your cloak, but they must be pretty close (theres various factors)

The little red detection eye that you see above your head is visible to enemy players (though they may not be looking at you, I know i catch a lot of sneaks by surprise. additionally, if you are in stealth and drink the potion, they will not see said icon unless they can already detect you).
HOWEVER, I have had some detect pots that DO NOT give me the little detection eye, but still detect stealth. I do not know why, whether its a specific combination, potion name, cyro lag, no idea, and not invested enough to care to test it. but that said, I assume the enemy will not see your detection eye if there are potion combinations that do not display it.

the "Sentry" set will alert you by making your hidden icon open and close 3 or 4 times in rapid succession. Sentry has a 100 meter range, stealth, invisible, it doesnt matter it will see it.

I wouldnt say detect pots are like mark, in that you can line of sight/move out of range reasonably easily if you know youre being hunted, where as mark makes the target remain visible for (i forget if it is the entire duration or if its like, 10 seconds or something, its not a skill I use often)

TybaltKaine · May 17

Another often undiscussed tactic is enemy Nightblades using Piercing Mark in combination with the various detection methods. Even if you manage to get out of the range of detection, if it is within those 3 seconds the enemy NB can detect and mark you again, repeating as much as they want. This also has the added bonus of using Major Breach on the stealthed enemy.

EDIT: This obviously doesn't apply to the Sorc from the OP, but as there was a discussion on general stealth detection methods, I felt it applicable to mention.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 17

Just_Attivi wrote: »

so with detect pots vs cloak:

Yes, they can detect your cloak, but they must be pretty close (theres various factors)

The little red detection eye that you see above your head is visible to enemy players

No, I think the "red eye" is only above you when you have a detection skill active (like Magelight).

The issue with detection potions is that those do not provide ANY feedback to the enemy who has them active (no "red eye" overhead icon) & even that they are detected at all (stealth "eye" remains closed for the enemy even if they are detected).

Also, unlike detection skills, detection potions can be used even if you are invisible yourself ! ! !

(and this is why many players think they are kinda broken because of that lol).

I have also heard that if one player has those potions active & detects an enemy, if they are in group - an entire group can "see" the invisible enemy. That way groups can have 100% uptime on any stealthed player - which would explain a lot and is a huge thing since ball groups & small scale for example can be immune to bombers & ganks. In IC it would also explain how you can not no longer sneak around to do PvE as basically every respawn point can be used as detection watch tower lol.

This was not the case in the past and detection potions were kinda working like in pve - if at least one mob "detects" you, then you know that at least one enemy saw you. It used to be the same in pvp - if at least one player saw you, then the "eye" icon would open.

Hence why I suspect it is an old bug & basically this bug was introduced to detection potions at some point, but it became extra prominent when ZOS ultra buffed range of the detection potions.

With range like this, potions should definitely have the "red eye" overhead icon imho.

DigiAngel · May 17

Detect is indeed 45 meters radius.

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Detect pots. I always love the absolute surprise reactions when I drink one and spot an enemy. Like they're completely unprepared for this scenario. It's especially funny to me when they cast cloak and try to back away.

As an NB myself, this...this is way too much fun. Pop the potion...run right by them like I don't see them, cloak myself, then turn around and stun. It's a thing of beauty really.

Just_Attivi · May 19

@Tommy_The_Gun
the Red Eye above peoples heads does appear with detect pots, though as I said (and someone confirmed in a different thread) some combinations of the potion will not display the red eye (they said immoveable versions of the potion dont display the red eye). I do agree that all potions that provide detection should

You are correct that detect pots give no feedback (at least not until the detecting player is close enough to properly detect). though, if you are spamming cloak, that will overwrite potential detection notices unless you are forced out of stealth via magelight/flare/camo hunter etc.

I dont think the whole group sees enemies when you detect pot, and if it does, then ive had many group mates lie about detect pots lol. Generally you can detect pot and tag an enemy to pull them out of stealth