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There is no way that the containers in Bruma are “random”

RicAlmighty
RicAlmighty
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[Removed]


Edited by RicAlmighty on July 13, 2024 1:46AM
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    Did you run a chi-square analysis?
  • EF321
    EF321
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    Then stop desiring those other peices?
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    Interesting. I thought it was a math problem, but it's actually an emotional issue. Well played!

    In all seriousness though, if each weapon type is equally weighted (which is not necessarily a good assumption as I have always thought that it was weighted towards jewelry myself), you would have an 84% chance of getting the item you actually want in 25 crates, if you wanted a single item. Given that 5 appeared to be acceptable, your results are pretty unlikely, but definitely possible even if everything is equally weighted, given the size of the player population.

    All of this goes back to the fundamental unfairness of the RNG problem. ZOS has mitigated a lot of this with drop curation and the sticker book, but certain sets don't drop, so there is no curation. I think that ought to change.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    Interesting. I thought it was a math problem, but it's actually an emotional issue. Well played!

    In all seriousness though, if each weapon type is equally weighted (which is not necessarily a good assumption as I have always thought that it was weighted towards jewelry myself), you would have an 84% chance of getting the item you actually want in 25 crates, if you wanted a single item. Given that 5 appeared to be acceptable, your results are pretty unlikely, but definitely possible even if everything is equally weighted, given the size of the player population.

    All of this goes back to the fundamental unfairness of the RNG problem. ZOS has mitigated a lot of this with drop curation and the sticker book, but certain sets don't drop, so there is no curation. I think that ought to change.

    pvp (cyro, IC, BG) all have the least curated gear in the entire game, everything else will drop doing it enough (dungeon/trial/arena), or from alternate sources (zones that have parts that lack curation can show up in the archive, where everything is curated)

    cyro has very little curation (gloves/shoulders from delve bosses, jewelry from dolmens) but outside of that nothing is curated

    IC has virtually no curation outside of the monster helms, trove scamps are the only source of drops for the gear and they arent even curated even considering how rare they are

    BG gear is not curated at all since it comes through a mail

    i would really like to see cyro or IC show up as "overland gear" in the archive at some point
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    Interesting. I thought it was a math problem, but it's actually an emotional issue. Well played!

    In all seriousness though, if each weapon type is equally weighted (which is not necessarily a good assumption as I have always thought that it was weighted towards jewelry myself), you would have an 84% chance of getting the item you actually want in 25 crates, if you wanted a single item. Given that 5 appeared to be acceptable, your results are pretty unlikely, but definitely possible even if everything is equally weighted, given the size of the player population.

    All of this goes back to the fundamental unfairness of the RNG problem. ZOS has mitigated a lot of this with drop curation and the sticker book, but certain sets don't drop, so there is no curation. I think that ought to change.

    pvp (cyro, IC, BG) all have the least curated gear in the entire game, everything else will drop doing it enough (dungeon/trial/arena), or from alternate sources (zones that have parts that lack curation can show up in the archive, where everything is curated)

    cyro has very little curation (gloves/shoulders from delve bosses, jewelry from dolmens) but outside of that nothing is curated

    IC has virtually no curation outside of the monster helms, trove scamps are the only source of drops for the gear and they arent even curated even considering how rare they are

    BG gear is not curated at all since it comes through a mail

    i would really like to see cyro or IC show up as "overland gear" in the archive at some point

    PvP gear has no curation because it is not bound. Selling it to non-PVP players is supposed to be a major source of gold for PvP players. Curation would likely hurt the market value, and since PvP does not reward much gold, I think ZOS want guild trader sales of Deadly and Vengeance Leech and so on to remain lucrative.
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    furiouslog wrote: »
    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    Interesting. I thought it was a math problem, but it's actually an emotional issue. Well played!

    In all seriousness though, if each weapon type is equally weighted (which is not necessarily a good assumption as I have always thought that it was weighted towards jewelry myself), you would have an 84% chance of getting the item you actually want in 25 crates, if you wanted a single item. Given that 5 appeared to be acceptable, your results are pretty unlikely, but definitely possible even if everything is equally weighted, given the size of the player population.

    All of this goes back to the fundamental unfairness of the RNG problem. ZOS has mitigated a lot of this with drop curation and the sticker book, but certain sets don't drop, so there is no curation. I think that ought to change.

    pvp (cyro, IC, BG) all have the least curated gear in the entire game, everything else will drop doing it enough (dungeon/trial/arena), or from alternate sources (zones that have parts that lack curation can show up in the archive, where everything is curated)

    cyro has very little curation (gloves/shoulders from delve bosses, jewelry from dolmens) but outside of that nothing is curated

    IC has virtually no curation outside of the monster helms, trove scamps are the only source of drops for the gear and they arent even curated even considering how rare they are

    BG gear is not curated at all since it comes through a mail

    i would really like to see cyro or IC show up as "overland gear" in the archive at some point

    PvP gear has no curation because it is not bound. Selling it to non-PVP players is supposed to be a major source of gold for PvP players. Curation would likely hurt the market value, and since PvP does not reward much gold, I think ZOS want guild trader sales of Deadly and Vengeance Leech and so on to remain lucrative.

    Deadly bows cost 11K gold. Daggers cost 500K. Is that not an issue that curation would solve? Once the set got filled out, people would still sell the random extras. It'd still be a moneymaker.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    furiouslog wrote: »
    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    Interesting. I thought it was a math problem, but it's actually an emotional issue. Well played!

    In all seriousness though, if each weapon type is equally weighted (which is not necessarily a good assumption as I have always thought that it was weighted towards jewelry myself), you would have an 84% chance of getting the item you actually want in 25 crates, if you wanted a single item. Given that 5 appeared to be acceptable, your results are pretty unlikely, but definitely possible even if everything is equally weighted, given the size of the player population.

    All of this goes back to the fundamental unfairness of the RNG problem. ZOS has mitigated a lot of this with drop curation and the sticker book, but certain sets don't drop, so there is no curation. I think that ought to change.

    pvp (cyro, IC, BG) all have the least curated gear in the entire game, everything else will drop doing it enough (dungeon/trial/arena), or from alternate sources (zones that have parts that lack curation can show up in the archive, where everything is curated)

    cyro has very little curation (gloves/shoulders from delve bosses, jewelry from dolmens) but outside of that nothing is curated

    IC has virtually no curation outside of the monster helms, trove scamps are the only source of drops for the gear and they arent even curated even considering how rare they are

    BG gear is not curated at all since it comes through a mail

    i would really like to see cyro or IC show up as "overland gear" in the archive at some point

    PvP gear has no curation because it is not bound. Selling it to non-PVP players is supposed to be a major source of gold for PvP players. Curation would likely hurt the market value, and since PvP does not reward much gold, I think ZOS want guild trader sales of Deadly and Vengeance Leech and so on to remain lucrative.

    technically speaking, all overland gear is not bound, but is curated (though a few zones have a few holes here or there in the natural zone, like jewelry in wrothgar)

    as i noted, cyro does have 2 sources of curation in the form of dolmens and delve bosses, but this only encompasses 4 items (ring/neck, and glove/shoulder), there are no public dungeons or WBs to get the other items from as drops

    and zos chose to not have gear boxes or chests to be curated, even though it is entirely possible for them to be curated (sources: chests in graven deep/earthen root enclave on release were "bugged" and gave curated gear, and some event boxes have given curated gear)

    the vast majority of gear from cyro is not really useful for any build, and someone selling a frankly useless cyro gear item for 50-100k+ gold is not going to get a sale from me even if it was the last item i needed for collection (i wont pay more than 10-15k for any piece of gear)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • jcaceresw
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    We really need curated drops on everything that is PVP related. I only go to do some PVP when their events are up to make my time and AP spent worthwhile.
    Edited by jcaceresw on May 10, 2024 6:38PM
  • EF321
    EF321
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    Opened 25 on PTS:

    1xAxe
    1xMace
    2xSword
    2xGreatsword
    6xBow
    1xLightning staff
    6xResto
    3xShield
    1xNeck
    2xRing


    I am almost sure (no proof, just personal observation from collecting everything in Cyro with random coffers) that it first rolls type, and only then exact piece of that type:
    4x1h
    2x2h
    6xbow
    1xDestro
    6xResto
    3xShield
    3xJewlery

    If you look at it like this, bows, shields and restos should be far more common, than subtype like dagger or axe, but not more common that all 1h combined. Just speculation, I have no proof or real evidence.
  • furiouslog
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    EF321 wrote: »
    Opened 25 on PTS:

    1xAxe
    1xMace
    2xSword
    2xGreatsword
    6xBow
    1xLightning staff
    6xResto
    3xShield
    1xNeck
    2xRing


    I am almost sure (no proof, just personal observation from collecting everything in Cyro with random coffers) that it first rolls type, and only then exact piece of that type:
    4x1h
    2x2h
    6xbow
    1xDestro
    6xResto
    3xShield
    3xJewlery

    If you look at it like this, bows, shields and restos should be far more common, than subtype like dagger or axe, but not more common that all 1h combined. Just speculation, I have no proof or real evidence.

    That looks like to me like what they did with the arena weapon drops, so a category (or more accurately, an arena set) of weapons is equally weighted, not the weapon itself. So, it'd probably be like this (apart from minor adjustments, which they have reported in the past):

    Categories: Bow, Jewelry, One Hander, Two Hander, Destro Staves, Resto Staff, each equally (or near equally) weighted.

    So it would look closer (but not exactly due to other unknowns) like this:

    iaptja2519op.png

    ...which would match all of these results more closely.


  • zaria
    zaria
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    EF321 wrote: »
    Opened 25 on PTS:

    1xAxe
    1xMace
    2xSword
    2xGreatsword
    6xBow
    1xLightning staff
    6xResto
    3xShield
    1xNeck
    2xRing


    I am almost sure (no proof, just personal observation from collecting everything in Cyro with random coffers) that it first rolls type, and only then exact piece of that type:
    4x1h
    2x2h
    6xbow
    1xDestro
    6xResto
    3xShield
    3xJewlery

    If you look at it like this, bows, shields and restos should be far more common, than subtype like dagger or axe, but not more common that all 1h combined. Just speculation, I have no proof or real evidence.

    That looks like to me like what they did with the arena weapon drops, so a category (or more accurately, an arena set) of weapons is equally weighted, not the weapon itself. So, it'd probably be like this (apart from minor adjustments, which they have reported in the past):

    Categories: Bow, Jewelry, One Hander, Two Hander, Destro Staves, Resto Staff, each equally (or near equally) weighted.

    So it would look closer (but not exactly due to other unknowns) like this:

    iaptja2519op.png

    ...which would match all of these results more closely.
    Think you are onto something, I never miss bows, shields or jewelry for dungeons if weapons was half done.

    But its some weird stuff going on, heard people opening 10 undaunted coffers only getting 1 set because other was meta.
    And remember farming for SPC healing staff, never got any SPC jewelry outside the blue from quest.
    But so many SPC bows 😺
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • RicAlmighty
    RicAlmighty
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    [Removed]
    Edited by RicAlmighty on July 13, 2024 1:46AM
  • RicAlmighty
    RicAlmighty
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    [Removed]
    Edited by RicAlmighty on July 13, 2024 1:46AM
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    zaria wrote: »
    Think you are onto something, I never miss bows, shields or jewelry for dungeons if weapons was half done.

    But its some weird stuff going on, heard people opening 10 undaunted coffers only getting 1 set because other was meta.
    And remember farming for SPC healing staff, never got any SPC jewelry outside the blue from quest.
    But so many SPC bows 😺

    I've had undaunted issues before, and I've analyzed those. Something might be going on with that, but I doubt it has to do with meta or not. I opened like 9 5 key coffers the other day and got 5 of the same epaulets. It's unlikely, but it can happen.

    As far as this situation, here's the chi-sq test (updated to correct an Excel error I made):


    rbn8h3norjt6.png


    It's telling us that this result is pretty unlikely (provided that the probabilities I assigned are correct), but it''s still probably going to happen to some people who are playing the game given its large population. The proper interpretation of this is that we have 93 percent confidence that reality is different than my hypothesis. Another way to interpret if we take it as a given that my hypothesis is correct is that 7 in 100 people will experience a similar result to Ric's.

    Either way, I think it's a fair ask for ZOS to do something about it - I understand the rational for splitting weapons into weapon class categories to be fair to the individual unknown player who is locked into a couple of weapons, but once it becomes an issue of completing sticker books or getting a particular weapon, weapon class weighting does more harm than good.

    Edited by furiouslog on May 10, 2024 8:47PM
  • EF321
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    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    How is this a useful response?

    You said:
    These containers are heavily weighted towards giving less desirable items.

    If you believe that, your solution is to just stop desiring whatever items you desire, so they will become less desirable and drop.
  • furiouslog
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    I neglected to add EF321's sample to the total, I also messed up and made a formula mistake (divided by 6 instead of 7 categories and also pointed to the wrong column). Sorry about that, I'm kind of high ATM. Anyway, when we add the new data and fix the errors, we get this:

    bvvhlrdb7fo4.png


    So we can't reject the null hypothesis, which means the weighting might be correct, or at least something close to it.

    Edited by furiouslog on May 10, 2024 8:46PM
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    And then finally, having settled on a drop table, here's how many coffers you have to open to increase your probability of getting the dagger:

    o6mwyjqhf2dl.png


    So basically, of the people who fed it 25 coffers, 61 percent of them would get a dagger. The remainder would not. In order to "guarantee" a drop (ofc it's not really guaranteed at all, it's just a practical expression of scientific certainty), using .01 as our "real" threshold for "certainty", you'd need to open 225 coffers, or spend about 5 million AP on a single set.

    This would also explain the market distortion for Deadly gear, given that the dagger is a universal BIS set piece, so it is in high demand from PVE'rs, but it is also a very rare drop. But now I guess we sort of know why.

    It seems like an unfair burden to place on the player. On the up side, it clearly shows that the best way to get the dagger is to buy it from someone else, because to rely on a "certain" drop you'd spend way more in AP than the equivalent in gold at current market prices.

    * updated with new information

    Edited by furiouslog on May 10, 2024 9:41PM
  • EF321
    EF321
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    I neglected to add EF321's sample to the total, I also messed up and made a formula mistake (divided by 6 instead of 7 categories and also pointed to the wrong column). Sorry about that, I'm kind of high ATM. Anyway, when we add the new data and fix the errors, we get this:

    bvvhlrdb7fo4.png


    So we can't reject the null hypothesis, which means the weighting might be correct, or at least something close to it.

    50 is hardly a sample size to make conclusions.

    Here's 344:

    hx643a9l9b8w.png


    Suddenly, there's more 2H or Jewelry than either of Bow/Resto/Shield. But overall, everything is closer to expected percentages.
    Edited by EF321 on May 10, 2024 9:31PM
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    EF321 wrote: »

    50 is hardly a sample size to make conclusions.

    Here's 344:

    787n42uo74tf.png

    Suddenly, there's more 2H or Jewelry than either of Bow/Resto/Shield. But overall, everything is closer to expected percentages.


    4i2edu1bi71v.png


    Here's the updated data, and we still can't reject the null hypothesis (it's actually a much stronger conclusion now, thanks to the larger sample). The one pattern emerging on the jewelry side is that the ring probably has double the chance to drop compared to the amulet, which would make sense because it matches the slotted ratio. So I made that adjustment, and it seems to be a pretty good fit. As such, for the moment, I'm going with the 225 coffer estimate to "guarantee" a drop. Not everyone will end up having to do that, but some players definitely will either need that many or more.

    Also for anyone reading this who is going to come in and say "but you need 1000000000000 sample size!" No, you do not. But I'm not trying to prove that my numbers are right, I'm only trying to show that they are probably not wrong. If we were trying to calculate the exact percentages, yes, we'd need thousands of samples. This is just a thought exercise to explain why some things seem crazy out of whack when they are, in fact, expectable outcomes.
    Edited by furiouslog on May 10, 2024 9:47PM
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    furiouslog wrote: »
    EF321 wrote: »
    Then stop desiring those other peices?

    Interesting. I thought it was a math problem, but it's actually an emotional issue. Well played!

    In all seriousness though, if each weapon type is equally weighted (which is not necessarily a good assumption as I have always thought that it was weighted towards jewelry myself), you would have an 84% chance of getting the item you actually want in 25 crates, if you wanted a single item. Given that 5 appeared to be acceptable, your results are pretty unlikely, but definitely possible even if everything is equally weighted, given the size of the player population.

    All of this goes back to the fundamental unfairness of the RNG problem. ZOS has mitigated a lot of this with drop curation and the sticker book, but certain sets don't drop, so there is no curation. I think that ought to change.

    pvp (cyro, IC, BG) all have the least curated gear in the entire game, everything else will drop doing it enough (dungeon/trial/arena), or from alternate sources (zones that have parts that lack curation can show up in the archive, where everything is curated)

    cyro has very little curation (gloves/shoulders from delve bosses, jewelry from dolmens) but outside of that nothing is curated

    IC has virtually no curation outside of the monster helms, trove scamps are the only source of drops for the gear and they arent even curated even considering how rare they are

    BG gear is not curated at all since it comes through a mail

    i would really like to see cyro or IC show up as "overland gear" in the archive at some point

    PvP gear has no curation because it is not bound. Selling it to non-PVP players is supposed to be a major source of gold for PvP players. Curation would likely hurt the market value, and since PvP does not reward much gold, I think ZOS want guild trader sales of Deadly and Vengeance Leech and so on to remain lucrative.

    Deadly bows cost 11K gold. Daggers cost 500K. Is that not an issue that curation would solve? Once the set got filled out, people would still sell the random extras. It'd still be a moneymaker.

    I find it so funny how overpriced things on PC are. Just today I found posts about the Deadly set and tried to get some of those items on PS EU. I got to Bruma, got some 20 containers and then the stuff - which is not even worth 1/10 of what it’s worth on PC. It’s really funny, Deadly 1h weapons sells for six figures on PC, on PS they’re 10-15k. Same with other sets.
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    I find it so funny how overpriced things on PC are. Just today I found posts about the Deadly set and tried to get some of those items on PS EU. I got to Bruma, got some 20 containers and then the stuff - which is not even worth 1/10 of what it’s worth on PC. It’s really funny, Deadly 1h weapons sells for six figures on PC, on PS they’re 10-15k. Same with other sets.

    If I were to guess, it's that there is a higher ratio of PVP players on PS, and also a lot less inflation driven by crafting mats?

    As far as 500K, we just got an influx of new and returning players on PC, and everyone is all, "OMG WHAT'S THE META??" and everyone just got an influx of gold from the recent events (esp. Jubilee), and so they are now down to spend some serious coin on gear after making bank on motifs and such.
  • belial5221_ESO
    belial5221_ESO
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    On consoles,people have to guess what to sell for,without searching every trader daily to pricecheck.Most jsut put a price they want to get rid of it and hope it sells.On PC people know rarity and median pricing cause of addons,and TTC site,so prices can be higher.

    I have a theory that gear you wear and your setup seems to affect what you get.I tested on different chars with diff setups,and magic light gear users get less of those items.I'm not using spreadsheet of 10s of thousands,but you can see it as you farm normal chests in game.Wood also seems to have less pieces so less chances to get those.Remember,gear comes in diff traits,so that adds to what it spits out from boxes and drops if looking for the right gear to drop.
    Edited by belial5221_ESO on May 10, 2024 10:07PM
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    I just could not play this game on console. I have no idea how you poor guys do it. More power to you all.
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    I just could not play this game on console. I have no idea how you poor guys do it. More power to you all.

    To be honest, it‘s not too bad even with trading. It‘s just way harder for all those monopolies, but as a single player it‘s pretty doable if you’re in a handful of big trading guilds. You don‘t know real prices of things, but everything is less streamlined, which makes it quite good when it comes to bargains.
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    furiouslog wrote: »
    I just could not play this game on console. I have no idea how you poor guys do it. More power to you all.

    To be honest, it‘s not too bad even with trading. It‘s just way harder for all those monopolies, but as a single player it‘s pretty doable if you’re in a handful of big trading guilds. You don‘t know real prices of things, but everything is less streamlined, which makes it quite good when it comes to bargains.

    I imagine it's a lot more like a ton of antique stalls where people are selling stuff out of dead relatives homes than a re-distributed Walmart. I could see how that could be fun. My wife would like it. But I'm a big data guy, so it would eventually drive me insane. The not knowing. Yikes.
  • EF321
    EF321
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    Also worth noting that this gear distribution if fairly recent change:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/641025/pc-mac-patch-notes-v9-1-5-update-39#latest
    "Any discrepancies in drop rates based on item slots have been brought up to current standards. This means rather than having a significantly higher chance of getting jewelry drops from sources, you will now have an equal chance of getting any piece of gear. This standard will be maintained for item sets going forward."

    First layer of RNG in these 3-piece coffers used to be 50% jewelry, 50% weapons (then weapon type, then specific piece of that type). For 5-piece sets it was 33% Armor/jewelry/weapon. That is from personal experince of collecting all sets there.
  • katanagirl1
    katanagirl1
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    furiouslog wrote: »
    I just could not play this game on console. I have no idea how you poor guys do it. More power to you all.

    To be honest, it‘s not too bad even with trading. It‘s just way harder for all those monopolies, but as a single player it‘s pretty doable if you’re in a handful of big trading guilds. You don‘t know real prices of things, but everything is less streamlined, which makes it quite good when it comes to bargains.

    I imagine it's a lot more like a ton of antique stalls where people are selling stuff out of dead relatives homes than a re-distributed Walmart. I could see how that could be fun. My wife would like it. But I'm a big data guy, so it would eventually drive me insane. The not knowing. Yikes.

    That’s not very flattering.

    If you want to know prices on console you just check the traders in the three main capital cities and see what they are listed for. Then price slightly below that if you want to sell. You only guess when it’s something rare and can’t find it listed.

    Back to the topic of Bruma containers, I spent 1-2 mil AP to get Deadly Daggers last year for my arcanist (not sure how many containers that was). and still didn’t get one. Paid 70 k for the cheapest one I could find in traders.
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • shadyjane62
    shadyjane62
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    I have only anecdotal evidence but when I used my ap to get armor for my char, I got mostly useless weapons like hammers and bows for my Templar. Not one piece of armor not one destruction staff, not one thing I could use having spent almost 200k.
  • RicAlmighty
    RicAlmighty
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    [Removed]


    Edited by RicAlmighty on July 13, 2024 1:46AM
  • furiouslog
    furiouslog
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    furiouslog wrote: »
    I just could not play this game on console. I have no idea how you poor guys do it. More power to you all.

    To be honest, it‘s not too bad even with trading. It‘s just way harder for all those monopolies, but as a single player it‘s pretty doable if you’re in a handful of big trading guilds. You don‘t know real prices of things, but everything is less streamlined, which makes it quite good when it comes to bargains.

    I imagine it's a lot more like a ton of antique stalls where people are selling stuff out of dead relatives homes than a re-distributed Walmart. I could see how that could be fun. My wife would like it. But I'm a big data guy, so it would eventually drive me insane. The not knowing. Yikes.

    That’s not very flattering.

    If you want to know prices on console you just check the traders in the three main capital cities and see what they are listed for. Then price slightly below that if you want to sell. You only guess when it’s something rare and can’t find it listed.

    Back to the topic of Bruma containers, I spent 1-2 mil AP to get Deadly Daggers last year for my arcanist (not sure how many containers that was). and still didn’t get one. Paid 70 k for the cheapest one I could find in traders.

    No offense meant! If you're talking about my wife, though, she loves antiquing and collects Disney pins, so that's where that came from.
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