For the love of unborn Talos, Pets need to count as Player Sourced.

CameraBeardThePirate

Title. It's a ridiculous and unnecessary restriction to not allow pets to proc sets, not allow pets to count for Battlegrounds Damage/Healing, and have otherwise absurd interactions between Pets and certain mechanics.

It unnecessarily hinders Sorcs, Wardens, and Necros.

Necro's own DoT passive doesn't even affect their Skeletal Mage/Archer because they're considered Pets, not DoTs.

Fix it.

Araneae6537

Why do people say “For the love of Talos…” and similar??? I abhor talos and beseech Ithelia to help us avoid that future…

But in any case, yes, I agree that pets should count for BG stats — they’re a type of class ability after all. However, it makes sense to me that they wouldn’t proc armor sets, unless specifically included, since it’s the character wearing the armor, so their direct actions and status would proc sets, rather than actions done by or to summoned creatures, etc.

joshisanonymous

I get the pets not counting for BG stats, but I think you need to make an argument for the only complaints. Why should pets proc sets? Why should pets be considered DoTs? I'm not saying they shouldn't, but your argument seems to be "because", and those are pretty big changes to things that are probably the way they are by design.

CameraBeardThePirate

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I get the pets not counting for BG stats, but I think you need to make an argument for the only complaints. Why should pets proc sets? Why should pets be considered DoTs? I'm not saying they shouldn't, but your argument seems to be "because", and those are pretty big changes to things that are probably the way they are by design.

Because not proccing sets or counting as player sourced healing/damage is an unnecessary limitation that holds those abilities back.

Skeletal Mage/Archer are bad abilities. Why shouldn't they proc sets if Flames of Oblivion, a functionally identical ability to the Skeletal Minions, can proc sets? The fact they don't count as DoTs means they don't even have synergy with Necro's kit.

The Warden Bear, outside of a few very specific scenarios, is a bad ultimate. Sure, it does decent damage, but that damage won't be proccing anything.

Even sorc pets, which see a lot of use, would be far more useful if they were to proc sets.

In the case of necro, the vast majority of the class' damage and healing cannot proc anything, and is not buffed by certain things.

Most of the sets in this game are proc sets. The rule that pets can't proc sets came from a time when proc sets were the exception, not the rule. It's far too constraining now that 80%+ of sets are procs.

katorga

The fact they don't count as DoTs means they don't even have synergy with Necro's kit.

Ironically, they were nerfed along with all the DoTs even though they don't count as dots or heal over times.

Turtle_Bot

Pets as a whole need a complete overhaul.

Currently necro pets are this strange mix of being both pets and DoTs, but also not being either of those at the same time.

Sorc pets (and warden bear) are slightly better in that they simply count as pets, but their limitations (particularly the long summon time and requiring double barring) just creates issues, especially when combined with the fact that they haven't been significantly updated for half a decade now and are completely dependent on ZOS specific 90% mitigation to NPC AoEs and immunity to boss mechanics just to be usable in the modes they are currently usable in.

To fix necro pets, (outside of buffing their DPS and having them grant named buffs like brutality/sorcery), would be to have the Rapid Rot passive also increase the damage done by pets and to have GLS be a buff ability, not a "pet".

e.g.

• Rapid Rot:
  Increases the damage done with damage over time effects and pets by 5/10%.
• Skeletal Archer:
  Activating this ability, summons a bone archer to your side that attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing X physical damage and grants Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing weapon and spell damage by 20%. Every subsequent attack deals 15% more damage. Has increased chance to inflict sundered status effect. Creates a corpse on death.
• Skeletal Arcanist:
  Activating this ability, summons a bone mage to your side that attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing X shock damage to the target and all nearby enemies and grants Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing weapon and spell damage by 20%. Has increased chance to inflict concussed status effect. Creates a corpse on death.
• Spirit Guardian:
  Activating this ability, summons a spirit guardian to your side that heals you or an ally for 20 seconds healing for X health every 2 seconds and grants Major Prophecy and Savagery, increasing weapon and spell critical rating by 2629. 10% of all damage taken is transferred to the spirit. Creates a corpse on death.
• Intensive Mender:
  Activating this ability, summons a spirit mender to your side that heals you or an ally for 10 seconds healing for Y health every 1 second and grants Major Prophecy, Savagery and Major mending, increasing weapon and spell critical rating by 2629 and increasing healing done by 16% for 10 seconds. Creates a corpse on death.
• Grave Lord's Sacrifice
  No longer requires being in combat to cast this ability. Summon a Skeleton from the earth near you and after 1 second you sacrifice it, creating a corpse and infusing your magic with its soul, increasing your damage done with non-ultimate class abilities and damage over time effects by 20% and increases damage done with ultimate class abilities by 10%.
  NOTE: No change to blighted blast bones since it is now buffed by Rapid Rot on top of the buffs it got last patch.

To fix Sorc pets (and by extension warden bear), remove the requirement of being double barred, remove the "summon time" and instead have the pets be summoned at all times while the abilities are slotted on either bar (like the non-combat pets).

But instead of dealing passive damage all the time, the "secondary abilities" of the pets become their "slotted abilities" that "activate" the pets for a lengthy duration and the pets deal their passive damage over time for that duration as well as apply their "active effects" on cast.

e.g.

• Twilight Matriarch:
  While slotted on either bar, a twilight matriarch follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, instantly heals the caster and 1 nearby ally for X health and causes the Matriarch to attack the nearest enemy (within 25m) every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing Z shock damage. Each time the matriarch attacks an enemy, heals the caster for Y health.
• Twilight Tormentor:
  While slotted on either bar, a winged twilight follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the twilight attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing X shock damage. Every third attack the twilight creates a gale with its wings that deals 60% bonus damage to the targeted enemy and hits enemies near the target dealing X physical damage, snares enemies hit by 30% and has increased chance to inflict sundered status.
• Unstable Familiar:
  While slotted on either bar, a familiar follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the familiar chases down the and attacks targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing X shock damage. Every 4 seconds the familiar sends out a shock wave that deals Y shock damage to all enemies near the familiar and inflicts concussed on all enemies hit.
• Clanfear:
  While slotted on either bar, a clanfear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the clanfear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy for 30 seconds dealing physical damage and on the second hit and every 5th hit afterwards the clanfear swipes at the targeted enemy with its tail dealing X physical damage in an area around the clanfear, inflicting the sundered status effect and knocking down and stunning enemies hit.
• Eternal Guardian (bear):
  While slotted on either bar, a polar bear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the bear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing frost damage. Every third hit the bear mauls all enemies in front of it dealing X frost damage with an increased chance to inflict chilled. This hit deals 150% more damage to enemies below 25% health and inflicts chilled on enemies below 25% health.
• Eternal Guardian (bear):
  While slotted on either bar, a grizzly bear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the bear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy for 60 seconds dealing bleed damage. Every second hit the bear mauls all enemies in front of it dealing X bleed damage and applies 1 stack of hemorrhaging to enemies hit. This hit deals 125% more damage to enemies below 25% health.

Something like these would help pets, they are still long duration abilities to help make rotations easier, but they also don't require summoning, or slotting on both bars, allowing for more flexibility and would mean they don't require their ZOS granted cheat-codes to make them usable.

All damage/healing values left as variables.

The idea is that while the abilities are not active, they function more as cosmetic pets, but when activated, they are like very long duration DoTs, allowing for much easier rotations compared to regular DoT abilities, but still not being completely passive abilities which allows them to not have their downsides of being double barred or long summon durations.

CameraBeardThePirate

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pets as a whole need a complete overhaul.

Currently necro pets are this strange mix of being both pets and DoTs, but also not being either of those at the same time.

Sorc pets (and warden bear) are slightly better in that they simply count as pets, but their limitations (particularly the long summon time and requiring double barring) just creates issues, especially when combined with the fact that they haven't been significantly updated for half a decade now and are completely dependent on ZOS specific 90% mitigation to NPC AoEs and immunity to boss mechanics just to be usable in the modes they are currently usable in.

To fix necro pets, (outside of buffing their DPS and having them grant named buffs like brutality/sorcery), would be to have the Rapid Rot passive also increase the damage done by pets and to have GLS be a buff ability, not a "pet".

e.g.

• Rapid Rot:
  Increases the damage done with damage over time effects and pets by 5/10%.
• Skeletal Archer:
  Activating this ability, summons a bone archer to your side that attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing X physical damage and grants Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing weapon and spell damage by 20%. Every subsequent attack deals 15% more damage. Has increased chance to inflict sundered status effect. Creates a corpse on death.
• Skeletal Arcanist:
  Activating this ability, summons a bone mage to your side that attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing X shock damage to the target and all nearby enemies and grants Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing weapon and spell damage by 20%. Has increased chance to inflict concussed status effect. Creates a corpse on death.
• Spirit Guardian:
  Activating this ability, summons a spirit guardian to your side that heals you or an ally for 20 seconds healing for X health every 2 seconds and grants Major Prophecy and Savagery, increasing weapon and spell critical rating by 2629. 10% of all damage taken is transferred to the spirit. Creates a corpse on death.
• Intensive Mender:
  Activating this ability, summons a spirit mender to your side that heals you or an ally for 10 seconds healing for Y health every 1 second and grants Major Prophecy, Savagery and Major mending, increasing weapon and spell critical rating by 2629 and increasing healing done by 16% for 10 seconds. Creates a corpse on death.
• Grave Lord's Sacrifice
  No longer requires being in combat to cast this ability. Summon a Skeleton from the earth near you and after 1 second you sacrifice it, creating a corpse and infusing your magic with its soul, increasing your damage done with non-ultimate class abilities and damage over time effects by 20% and increases damage done with ultimate class abilities by 10%.
  NOTE: No change to blighted blast bones since it is now buffed by Rapid Rot on top of the buffs it got last patch.

To fix Sorc pets (and by extension warden bear), remove the requirement of being double barred, remove the "summon time" and instead have the pets be summoned at all times while the abilities are slotted on either bar (like the non-combat pets).

But instead of dealing passive damage all the time, the "secondary abilities" of the pets become their "slotted abilities" that "activate" the pets for a lengthy duration and the pets deal their passive damage over time for that duration as well as apply their "active effects" on cast.

e.g.

• Twilight Matriarch:
  While slotted on either bar, a twilight matriarch follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, instantly heals the caster and 1 nearby ally for X health and causes the Matriarch to attack the nearest enemy (within 25m) every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing Z shock damage. Each time the matriarch attacks an enemy, heals the caster for Y health.
• Twilight Tormentor:
  While slotted on either bar, a winged twilight follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the twilight attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing X shock damage. Every third attack the twilight creates a gale with its wings that deals 60% bonus damage to the targeted enemy and hits enemies near the target dealing X physical damage, snares enemies hit by 30% and has increased chance to inflict sundered status.
• Unstable Familiar:
  While slotted on either bar, a familiar follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the familiar chases down the and attacks targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing X shock damage. Every 4 seconds the familiar sends out a shock wave that deals Y shock damage to all enemies near the familiar and inflicts concussed on all enemies hit.
• Clanfear:
  While slotted on either bar, a clanfear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the clanfear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy for 30 seconds dealing physical damage and on the second hit and every 5th hit afterwards the clanfear swipes at the targeted enemy with its tail dealing X physical damage in an area around the clanfear, inflicting the sundered status effect and knocking down and stunning enemies hit.
• Eternal Guardian (bear):
  While slotted on either bar, a polar bear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the bear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing frost damage. Every third hit the bear mauls all enemies in front of it dealing X frost damage with an increased chance to inflict chilled. This hit deals 150% more damage to enemies below 25% health and inflicts chilled on enemies below 25% health.
• Eternal Guardian (bear):
  While slotted on either bar, a grizzly bear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the bear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy for 60 seconds dealing bleed damage. Every second hit the bear mauls all enemies in front of it dealing X bleed damage and applies 1 stack of hemorrhaging to enemies hit. This hit deals 125% more damage to enemies below 25% health.

Something like these would help pets, they are still long duration abilities to help make rotations easier, but they also don't require summoning, or slotting on both bars, allowing for more flexibility and would mean they don't require their ZOS granted cheat-codes to make them usable.

All damage/healing values left as variables.

The idea is that while the abilities are not active, they function more as cosmetic pets, but when activated, they are like very long duration DoTs, allowing for much easier rotations compared to regular DoT abilities, but still not being completely passive abilities which allows them to not have their downsides of being double barred or long summon durations.

I agree with pretty much all of these.

Sorcs would gain a lot of bar space, which could cause issues, but they'd lose a couple globals in return which might keep things from getting too crazy.

Pets are just absurdly designed in the context of the current meta. Nearly every set in the game is a proc set.

Turtle_Bot

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pets as a whole need a complete overhaul.

Currently necro pets are this strange mix of being both pets and DoTs, but also not being either of those at the same time.

Sorc pets (and warden bear) are slightly better in that they simply count as pets, but their limitations (particularly the long summon time and requiring double barring) just creates issues, especially when combined with the fact that they haven't been significantly updated for half a decade now and are completely dependent on ZOS specific 90% mitigation to NPC AoEs and immunity to boss mechanics just to be usable in the modes they are currently usable in.

To fix necro pets, (outside of buffing their DPS and having them grant named buffs like brutality/sorcery), would be to have the Rapid Rot passive also increase the damage done by pets and to have GLS be a buff ability, not a "pet".

e.g.

• Rapid Rot:
  Increases the damage done with damage over time effects and pets by 5/10%.
• Skeletal Archer:
  Activating this ability, summons a bone archer to your side that attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing X physical damage and grants Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing weapon and spell damage by 20%. Every subsequent attack deals 15% more damage. Has increased chance to inflict sundered status effect. Creates a corpse on death.
• Skeletal Arcanist:
  Activating this ability, summons a bone mage to your side that attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing X shock damage to the target and all nearby enemies and grants Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing weapon and spell damage by 20%. Has increased chance to inflict concussed status effect. Creates a corpse on death.
• Spirit Guardian:
  Activating this ability, summons a spirit guardian to your side that heals you or an ally for 20 seconds healing for X health every 2 seconds and grants Major Prophecy and Savagery, increasing weapon and spell critical rating by 2629. 10% of all damage taken is transferred to the spirit. Creates a corpse on death.
• Intensive Mender:
  Activating this ability, summons a spirit mender to your side that heals you or an ally for 10 seconds healing for Y health every 1 second and grants Major Prophecy, Savagery and Major mending, increasing weapon and spell critical rating by 2629 and increasing healing done by 16% for 10 seconds. Creates a corpse on death.
• Grave Lord's Sacrifice
  No longer requires being in combat to cast this ability. Summon a Skeleton from the earth near you and after 1 second you sacrifice it, creating a corpse and infusing your magic with its soul, increasing your damage done with non-ultimate class abilities and damage over time effects by 20% and increases damage done with ultimate class abilities by 10%.
  NOTE: No change to blighted blast bones since it is now buffed by Rapid Rot on top of the buffs it got last patch.

To fix Sorc pets (and by extension warden bear), remove the requirement of being double barred, remove the "summon time" and instead have the pets be summoned at all times while the abilities are slotted on either bar (like the non-combat pets).

But instead of dealing passive damage all the time, the "secondary abilities" of the pets become their "slotted abilities" that "activate" the pets for a lengthy duration and the pets deal their passive damage over time for that duration as well as apply their "active effects" on cast.

e.g.

• Twilight Matriarch:
  While slotted on either bar, a twilight matriarch follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, instantly heals the caster and 1 nearby ally for X health and causes the Matriarch to attack the nearest enemy (within 25m) every 2 seconds for 30 seconds dealing Z shock damage. Each time the matriarch attacks an enemy, heals the caster for Y health.
• Twilight Tormentor:
  While slotted on either bar, a winged twilight follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the twilight attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing X shock damage. Every third attack the twilight creates a gale with its wings that deals 60% bonus damage to the targeted enemy and hits enemies near the target dealing X physical damage, snares enemies hit by 30% and has increased chance to inflict sundered status.
• Unstable Familiar:
  While slotted on either bar, a familiar follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the familiar chases down the and attacks targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing X shock damage. Every 4 seconds the familiar sends out a shock wave that deals Y shock damage to all enemies near the familiar and inflicts concussed on all enemies hit.
• Clanfear:
  While slotted on either bar, a clanfear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the clanfear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy for 30 seconds dealing physical damage and on the second hit and every 5th hit afterwards the clanfear swipes at the targeted enemy with its tail dealing X physical damage in an area around the clanfear, inflicting the sundered status effect and knocking down and stunning enemies hit.
• Eternal Guardian (bear):
  While slotted on either bar, a polar bear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the bear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy every 2 seconds for 60 seconds dealing frost damage. Every third hit the bear mauls all enemies in front of it dealing X frost damage with an increased chance to inflict chilled. This hit deals 150% more damage to enemies below 25% health and inflicts chilled on enemies below 25% health.
• Eternal Guardian (bear):
  While slotted on either bar, a grizzly bear follows the caster around. Upon activating this ability, the bear chases down and attacks the targeted enemy for 60 seconds dealing bleed damage. Every second hit the bear mauls all enemies in front of it dealing X bleed damage and applies 1 stack of hemorrhaging to enemies hit. This hit deals 125% more damage to enemies below 25% health.

Something like these would help pets, they are still long duration abilities to help make rotations easier, but they also don't require summoning, or slotting on both bars, allowing for more flexibility and would mean they don't require their ZOS granted cheat-codes to make them usable.

All damage/healing values left as variables.

The idea is that while the abilities are not active, they function more as cosmetic pets, but when activated, they are like very long duration DoTs, allowing for much easier rotations compared to regular DoT abilities, but still not being completely passive abilities which allows them to not have their downsides of being double barred or long summon durations.

I agree with pretty much all of these.

Sorcs would gain a lot of bar space, which could cause issues, but they'd lose a couple globals in return which might keep things from getting too crazy.

Pets are just absurdly designed in the context of the current meta. Nearly every set in the game is a proc set.

yeah, that's why I left the numbers blank so they can be adjusted to not make the pets too strong, especially when combined with the additional GCDs required it should be easy to balance.