ZOS, Massive Spike in Ping/LAG in Recent Days - What Gives?

KaironBlackbard

We also need to figure out why Bandits UI is causing auto pings to nowhere.

YandereGirlfriend

This is more ammo for my Just Say No (to Addons) crusade.

Anecdotally, I played in Cyro last night and asked everyone in the group to purge Bandits if they had it. Viola, there wasn't any notable lag (this wasn't remotely an actual A/B test though).

sshogrin

This weekend my frames/latency were horrid. I was having 0 and 1 frames with 999+ latency every fight, in between fights everything is goes back normal.

The update/fix earlier this week seems to have made things worse.

You can't tank a trial with 0 or 1 frames and more than 999+ latency.

Is some of the latency/frame rate loss due to custom ability colors or scribing?

When I do a traceroute, I'm getting massive packet loss right before the ZOS servers at 198.20.200.1, when I'm using various traceroute software, I'm getting a company ID of Zenimax in those last servers where I get the massive packet loss.

The issue isn't consistent either. Some people have no issues, some people have issues, some people it only mildly effects while in the same group and trial. Last night I quit game part way into the trial, restarted the game and didn't have issues the rest of the trial...it's like there's an issue with "certain servers" on the ZOS end of things, or how clients are being handled by the ZOS User servers. So far this weekend being in trials has been completely unplayable.

I have posted my traceroute on here, others have to, they show the same thing with Akami and Cogentcom being a major problem in the route. Those are right before the 198.20.200.1 server. Again, the software I'm using for this identify those Akami/Cogentcom servers as being Zenimax-Max servers.

These issues have been going on now for well over half a year. People are canceling subscriptions, leaving the game, not playing anymore because of these major problems. It's leading a lot of people to speculate that the devs at ZOS want this game to die so people move on to other Zenimax/Bethesda games, or even wait for no games that are currently being developed.

Please @ZOS_Kevin can we get these issues resolved? It's been more than long enough.

KaironBlackbard

sshogrin wrote: »

The issue isn't consistent either. Some people have no issues, some people have issues, some people it only mildly effects while in the same group and trial. Last night I quit game part way into the trial, restarted the game and didn't have issues the rest of the trial...it's like there's an issue with "certain servers" on the ZOS end of things, or how clients are being handled by the ZOS User servers. So far this weekend being in trials has been completely unplayable.

hmmm

MedicInTheWild

10 Days no update, Feels like the normal.

Not to say Kevin is to blame, I feel its the folks he is waiting on for the response to give fault.

I wish they would just focus on performance for the next year, feel they could sell more stuff if people could actually use the stuff ive already purchased..................................

Arunei

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is more ammo for my Just Say No (to Addons) crusade.

Anecdotally, I played in Cyro last night and asked everyone in the group to purge Bandits if they had it. Viola, there wasn't any notable lag (this wasn't remotely an actual A/B test though).

Except that if you've been looking at a lot of responses to the latest round of info Kevin said was asked for, the problem is on console too.

Console doesn't have addons.

People who are saying disabling certain addons are helping clear up their issues are likely not having the same issues that the people not using addons/are unable to (aka console) are having.

I also highly doubt it's possible for Person A to have an addon and for that to affect what Person B is running. That's because addons are client side, and I don't think there's anything in the API that would allow for addons to check and see what's running in another person's game. And even if this is somehow possible, just because an addon can detect things like that, without having the addon themselves, they can't be affected by someone else running it on their machine (this is response to someone asking if there could be incompatibility between Person A and Person B's addons).

Reverb

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is more ammo for my Just Say No (to Addons) crusade.

Anecdotally, I played in Cyro last night and asked everyone in the group to purge Bandits if they had it. Viola, there wasn't any notable lag (this wasn't remotely an actual A/B test though).

Today I experienced about a 5 min rollback in Fargrave. I did my dumping and trading at the bank, then talked to Madam Whim, then ran to the plaza and was checking my journal. There was a lag spike and I got kicked to login. When I got back in I was back at the bank and my quest phase was rolled back.

There are no addons that can do that, that’s exclusively server side desync. This is a zeni problem.

Coo_PnT

I would be willing to lose the use and comfort of addon if the lag and disconnection problems were eliminated.
If this lag problem is caused by addon. However, if addons are to be eliminated, I would like to see ZoS improve Qol for daily quests, minimaps, etc.

moderatelyfatman

Reverb wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is more ammo for my Just Say No (to Addons) crusade.

Anecdotally, I played in Cyro last night and asked everyone in the group to purge Bandits if they had it. Viola, there wasn't any notable lag (this wasn't remotely an actual A/B test though).

Today I experienced about a 5 min rollback in Fargrave. I did my dumping and trading at the bank, then talked to Madam Whim, then ran to the plaza and was checking my journal. There was a lag spike and I got kicked to login. When I got back in I was back at the bank and my quest phase was rolled back.

There are no addons that can do that, that’s exclusively server side desync. This is a zeni problem.

I had a similar experience in my guild hall when I reconstituted an entire set of gear from the Stickerbook and then it all disappeared. My initial panick subsided when I realised that I hadn't lost any mats or transmutes.

KaironBlackbard

Arunei wrote: »

I also highly doubt it's possible for Person A to have an addon and for that to affect what Person B is running. That's because addons are client side,

Bandits pulls information from ally's systems to let its user know in greater detail the status of allies.
This causes a strain not only on the server but also on allies' systems.
Not everyone has GB speeds, let alone 100MB speeds.

Still don't know what's causing it to autocast ping though.
They say it's a universal everything addon so could be part of that.

KaironBlackbard

Reverb wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is more ammo for my Just Say No (to Addons) crusade.

Anecdotally, I played in Cyro last night and asked everyone in the group to purge Bandits if they had it. Viola, there wasn't any notable lag (this wasn't remotely an actual A/B test though).

Today I experienced about a 5 min rollback in Fargrave. I did my dumping and trading at the bank, then talked to Madam Whim, then ran to the plaza and was checking my journal. There was a lag spike and I got kicked to login. When I got back in I was back at the bank and my quest phase was rolled back.

There are no addons that can do that, that’s exclusively server side desync. This is a zeni problem.

If you were having lag, you wouldn't have been able to put stuff in bank or talk to the quest giver.
Rollback is not lag.
Rollback is an intentional dev issue.
When I'm lagging, if I try to talk to someone, it will freeze until it receives connection.
When I'm in the bank and it lags, it will freeze on whatever Item I was trying to transfer and if I click another it'll say something like "please wait for the previous transaction to finish"
It's not desync if you were able to access bank and progress quest.

LadyGP

MedicInTheWild wrote: »

10 Days no update, Feels like the normal.

Not to say Kevin is to blame, I feel its the folks he is waiting on for the response to give fault.

I wish they would just focus on performance for the next year, feel they could sell more stuff if people could actually use the stuff ive already purchased..................................

A "true" update aside from looking into it.. or not sure what is causing it yet... we haven't had one of those and it's been 7 months.

Sarannah

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I also highly doubt it's possible for Person A to have an addon and for that to affect what Person B is running. That's because addons are client side,

Bandits pulls information from ally's systems to let its user know in greater detail the status of allies.
This causes a strain not only on the server but also on allies' systems.
Not everyone has GB speeds, let alone 100MB speeds.

Still don't know what's causing it to autocast ping though.
They say it's a universal everything addon so could be part of that.

Maybe the autocast ping is to detect nearby players, so it can pull data from them.

Anyways, players are listing so many different issues here, and there are so many possible causes per each issue... maybe it is better if those players having issues also state exactly what their issue is. Right now 'issues' contains: "lag", "delay", "disconnects", "rollback", "crash to desktop", etc. Might be better for ZOS to split this topic into all the different issues one by one and ask for player's info on the crashes(like the previous asking reply), to easier find out what is causing it. This would also help users themselves narrow down on if something is server/client side, and would keep it per issue.

Right now trying to make heads or tails of any of the issues in here is impossible, not only because of the thread being old, but also because everyone is discussing different issues when they respond to possible solutions/things to check. While each separate issue is different in and of itself, even if it can possibly be caused by the same thing.

Arunei

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I also highly doubt it's possible for Person A to have an addon and for that to affect what Person B is running. That's because addons are client side,

Bandits pulls information from ally's systems to let its user know in greater detail the status of allies.
This causes a strain not only on the server but also on allies' systems.
Not everyone has GB speeds, let alone 100MB speeds.

Still don't know what's causing it to autocast ping though.
They say it's a universal everything addon so could be part of that.

What exactly do you mean that it pulls system info? Because that sounds like something that wouldn't be allowed if ZOS knew about it. I know certain other addons have been banned by doing things they weren't supposed to be able to. There's no way people should have access to something that pulls info from another player's actual computer if you're talking stuff like processor, RAM, H/SDD info, etc.

KaironBlackbard

Arunei wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I also highly doubt it's possible for Person A to have an addon and for that to affect what Person B is running. That's because addons are client side,

Bandits pulls information from ally's systems to let its user know in greater detail the status of allies.
This causes a strain not only on the server but also on allies' systems.
Not everyone has GB speeds, let alone 100MB speeds.

Still don't know what's causing it to autocast ping though.
They say it's a universal everything addon so could be part of that.

What exactly do you mean that it pulls system info? Because that sounds like something that wouldn't be allowed if ZOS knew about it. I know certain other addons have been banned by doing things they weren't supposed to be able to. There's no way people should have access to something that pulls info from another player's actual computer if you're talking stuff like processor, RAM, H/SDD info, etc.

It grabs things that normally allies cant see, such as permanent buffs, and mag and stam resources, food buffs, etc. I think it can even show them your ability timers.
Obviously my upload can't handle giving that much data.

kyle.wilson

I don't think they have the expertise available to identify and fix the issues.

There is some mystery "AAA IP MMO" currently in production by Zenimax Online Studios. So I'd imagine that the teams have been split with the higher experience doing the groundwork for that game.

It really feels like this is just juggling problems that have been systemic for years now. Don't be the last person in the room when the balls drop.

Coo_PnT

Currently this MMO is just operating with a minimal number of people to avoid accidents, just place products in the Crown store and make a few coins. They don't read any of the suggestions for improvement from the users.

fizzylu

Coo_PnT wrote: »

Currently this MMO is just operating with a minimal number of people to avoid accidents, just place products in the Crown store and make a few coins.

My friend who used to play calls ESO a money machine.... and it's hard to refute that when we're now seeing things like companions locked behind the crown store and not included in the already smaller than average chapters that we pay a triple A game price for. Honestly won't be surprised if we see ToT decks there next.

Auberon1983

New PS5/NA woes

Twice now the game has hard froze on me while in a dungeon/arena (normal Dread Cellar and nDSA). Not the system freezing, mind, just the game. Guildmates and I could still talk over PSN chat, and I had to hard close the game.

Also, more frequently, upon loading the game, I'll instead be met with a black screen. The music is still playing, but no game. Again, this requires a hard close.

Obviously no add ons are involved

Rkindaleft

Auberon1983 wrote: »

New PS5/NA woes

Twice now the game has hard froze on me while in a dungeon/arena (normal Dread Cellar and nDSA). Not the system freezing, mind, just the game. Guildmates and I could still talk over PSN chat, and I had to hard close the game.

Also, more frequently, upon loading the game, I'll instead be met with a black screen. The music is still playing, but no game. Again, this requires a hard close.

Obviously no add ons are involved

Also PS/NA and I've frozen swapping between zones since the update last week. My boyfriend who plays 5 meters away from me has frozen like you randomly in the middle of trials more than once. I could list like fifty different bugs and errors from mildly annoying to literally preventing progression that this game has suffered for years and still haven't been fixed, which is why I'm not confident this will be resolved.

Synergies not working in Cloudrest and Dreadsail Reef requiring you to do dumb stuff like running away and coming back or barswapping to make them usable, 2 Reef Guardians bugging out and going to the same heart and forcing a wipe, DSR Twins teleport orbs being invisible or being transparent, DSR Twins HM weapon waves desyncing and damaging you a full second before it hits your character, blood pools being invisible on last floor Falgravn HM, conversions in vMOL Twins have been broken since like 2017 and still sometimes randomly don't show the colours, Bahsei HM randomly stops moving in the arena which forces the offtank to take taunt for it to move again, getting stuck in weird positions such as the wall and cliff side in Sunspire where you can't get resurrected and won't get pulled back into the instance, the list goes on and on. There are way more and this is only covering trials and isn't covering bugs in PvP or anything else. The circle in last boss Castle Thorn not appearing or moving for people has been an issue for 3 years and has had -literally hundreds- of bug reports and still hasn't been fixed. It's also clear the devs do like no testing because when they ported the boss over to Infinite Archive the bug occurs there now as well...

LadyGP

Absolute crickets from Zos now on this.

@ZOS_Kevin .......

blktauna

cptscotty wrote: »

[snip]

Kinda rude considering nothing said was untrue.

[edited to remove quote]

miguelcura

Your post is wrong. The servers never worked well.

Pelanora

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

cptscotty

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

Was in queue during prime time hours for a vet dungeon as a tank for hours....As a tank. Then when I finally got in...we were all hit with a huge amount of input lag that caused a lot of bugs and it was a nightmare to try and play.

moderatelyfatman

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

In some ways it's worse because at least in 2018 you had a higher percentage of the playerbase who were long term players. You can easily repopulate with an experienced playerbase since you still have a well of knowlege to draw from. If we keep losing good tanks and healers like we are doing now, who will train the new generation?

KaironBlackbard

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

They are at their lowest count in years and people are still having problems? I suppose it's not server overload then....

KaironBlackbard

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

In some ways it's worse because at least in 2018 you had a higher percentage of the playerbase who were long term players. You can easily repopulate with an experienced playerbase since you still have a well of knowlege to draw from. If we keep losing good tanks and healers like we are doing now, who will train the new generation?

They'll be left with trial by fire/ordeal

LadyGP

cptscotty wrote: »

[snip]

That is ironic considering their old community manager outright stated their customer service/coms didn't meet the mark and there was no excuse for that (paraphrasing).

[edited to remove quote]

LadyGP

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

They are at their lowest count in years and people are still having problems? I suppose it's not server overload then....

Nope. It's not a "to many people are playing" problem... it's something deep within the Engine (I make this claim based on a few assumptions and talking with friends who are network engineers and sprinkling in my years of being a Senior Software Engineer).

I think it's fairly safe to say it's not something on the surface at a code level or a hardware issue that could easily be replaced. So that leaves the engine itself or Akamai. Honestly, I'm now leaning towards the Engine being the cause and it's showing itself as an Akamai issue. In short - they are trying to add a new corvette engine (Akamai) into a beater honda and it's just not working - which honestly this could be said for any new system being added to the game.

Because it's such a deep level and if it truly is an Engine issue... this isn't something they can fix without swapping engines (which I can't see any reasonable person in leadership checking off on this investment given the remaining lifespan of this game... I mean I wouldn't if I was in their shoes).

Which leads to the last point. What do they do about it. Do they come out and say it's the engine and they can't do anything about it? If they did this... those on the fence of ending their subs would pull the trigger so they clearly can't outright come out and do it.

So then what? All that I can see remaining is playing the string along game.. which no disrespect...ZoS has mastered over the years. Given this is 7 months old... 80+ posts.... ~2.5k replies and ~110,000 views... I think we have entered that stage.

Say just enough to give hope but not enough to give answers.

This post is in NO way throwing shade/disrespect at ZoS or anyone who has been handling these issues. This is just a raw...transparent..honest perception of things as I see them through my own experiences of playing this game non stop since beta.

@ZOS_Kevin again... ZERO disrespect... did I sum things up accurately at all or am I way off base?