Suggestion: New Weapon Idea - Spears

edward_frigidhands

Hello and cheers.

I have a suggestion for the next upcoming expansion in 2025. An addition of a new weapon type, one that is old as man and warfare itself. Spears.

Spears in one capacity or another have been used for combat and warfare for ages. Depending on design, quality, training and the fighting style employed to wield them they can offer a host of defensive and offensive additions to combat. There are still parts of the world where spears are held either in display/performance or for actual combat.

Implementation into the game could involve 3 styles (3 is a popular number for Elder Scrolls titles). Single spear with a shield, single spear wielding and dual wield with 1 or 2 spears.

The issue of motif/styles could be resolved by possibly using staves or just starting new and not worrying about every set having spears.

What does everyone think about this?

Araneae6537

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

TaSheen

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Yeah. Never had any interest in spears, nor unarmed. One hand and rune for me. But of course if things I don't like get added, I'll just ignore them.

edward_frigidhands

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Unarmed isn't a real fighting style in a world where armed and magical combat is common. I understand its a fictional world and everything but there are things that will stretch your imagine a bit too much in my opinion. A lot of unarmed combat general involves disabling and/or disarming your opponent.

You can't right really fight a trained and armed opponent while you're not armed, no matter what weapon.

Even very simple weapons can inflict massive damage. We should just go with spears. I appreciate your other suggestions though.

El_Borracho

This again? Wait, don't tell me, 1H and Rune is for next week followed by "Why Can't We Have Capes?"



EDIT: Too funny seeing 1H and Rune posted immediately above

edward_frigidhands

El_Borracho wrote: »

This again? Wait, don't tell me, 1H and Rune is for next week followed by "Why Can't We Have Capes?"

We can't have capes because of the game code I think. That's sad but understandable if truth tbh.

Drammanoth

Spears - Templar.
H2H - never will be implemented.
1H&R - never will be implemented

Araneae6537

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Unarmed isn't a real fighting style in a world where armed and magical combat is common. I understand its a fictional world and everything but there are things that will stretch your imagine a bit too much in my opinion. A lot of unarmed combat general involves disabling and/or disarming your opponent.

You can't right really fight a trained and armed opponent while you're not armed, no matter what weapon.

Even very simple weapons can inflict massive damage. We should just go with spears. I appreciate your other suggestions though.

I didn’t mean unarmed as in real life as you’re right, that wouldn’t make sense with everything else in Tamriel. I wasn’t think out the specifics, but just using magic without a staff appearing and disappearing between abilities could be a nice option with some classes. Of course there would have to be some sort of weapon placeholder so the number of gear slots is the same.

SilverIce58

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Unarmed isn't a real fighting style in a world where armed and magical combat is common. I understand its a fictional world and everything but there are things that will stretch your imagine a bit too much in my opinion. A lot of unarmed combat general involves disabling and/or disarming your opponent.

You can't right really fight a trained and armed opponent while you're not armed, no matter what weapon.

Even very simple weapons can inflict massive damage. We should just go with spears. I appreciate your other suggestions though.

That's not true at all. The Elder Scrolls has always had Hand-to-hand combat. Daggerfall, Battlespire, Morrowind, and Oblivion ALL have hand to hand as a major skill, and Skyrim has ways to enchant your gloves to do more unarmed damage, not to mention Khajiit and Argonians almost always having a bonus to unarmed damage.

Maitsukas

El_Borracho wrote: »

This again? Wait, don't tell me, 1H and Rune is for next week followed by "Why Can't We Have Capes?"



EDIT: Too funny seeing 1H and Rune posted immediately above

Don't forget the Bard and Monk classes.

El_Borracho

Maitsukas wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

This again? Wait, don't tell me, 1H and Rune is for next week followed by "Why Can't We Have Capes?"



EDIT: Too funny seeing 1H and Rune posted immediately above

Don't forget the Bard and Monk classes.

Oh, the Bard and Monk threads. Kill mobs with music and prayer, like a Stryper concert.

Vulkunne

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Hello and cheers.

I have a suggestion for the next upcoming expansion in 2025. An addition of a new weapon type, one that is old as man and warfare itself. Spears.

Spears in one capacity or another have been used for combat and warfare for ages. Depending on design, quality, training and the fighting style employed to wield them they can offer a host of defensive and offensive additions to combat. There are still parts of the world where spears are held either in display/performance or for actual combat.

Implementation into the game could involve 3 styles (3 is a popular number for Elder Scrolls titles). Single spear with a shield, single spear wielding and dual wield with 1 or 2 spears.

The issue of motif/styles could be resolved by possibly using staves or just starting new and not worrying about every set having spears.

What does everyone think about this?

Why suggest spears when they can't/won't fix Templar jabs? I like your idea though.

freespirit

Crossbows, with different types of bolts.......

Nooooo ofc I'm not stealing ideas from The Witcher series!! 🤓

DrNukenstein

There's room for a crit chance 2h weapon, and it should be spears.

It would look so bad.

ikzaa

El_Borracho wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

This again? Wait, don't tell me, 1H and Rune is for next week followed by "Why Can't We Have Capes?"



EDIT: Too funny seeing 1H and Rune posted immediately above

Don't forget the Bard and Monk classes.

Oh, the Bard and Monk threads. Kill mobs with music and prayer, like a Stryper concert.

If Michael Jackson taught me something...

is that you can defeat ghosts, the worst gangs in the world, outlaws, martians, robots, zombies and the devil just by dancing.

Starlord beat Ronan by dancing.

Don't underestimate the power of music and dance, those who did it are dead.

ZoeliTintanie

Could make it 1h + offhand shield and give it an amazonian vibe.





Also, I found a really old post on reddit about this topic which has a ESO screenshot of an argonian holding a spear & shield (some trial glitch or something)

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9d7j00/spear_and_shield_would_be_cool_but_its_not_what_i/

Araneae6537

El_Borracho wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

This again? Wait, don't tell me, 1H and Rune is for next week followed by "Why Can't We Have Capes?"



EDIT: Too funny seeing 1H and Rune posted immediately above

Don't forget the Bard and Monk classes.

Oh, the Bard and Monk threads. Kill mobs with music and prayer, like a Stryper concert.

Ugh, no. I know there have been bard and monk class archetypes in previous Elder Scrolls games, but I hope there’s never a D&D type bard playing music during combat!

Now a class like the GW2 mesmer, which in Elder Scrolls could be very illusion magic based, that could be very fun!

MreeBiPolar

"Add the 15th page to every motif". Whatever the case, not gonna happen...

edward_frigidhands

SilverIce58 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Unarmed isn't a real fighting style in a world where armed and magical combat is common. I understand its a fictional world and everything but there are things that will stretch your imagine a bit too much in my opinion. A lot of unarmed combat general involves disabling and/or disarming your opponent.

You can't right really fight a trained and armed opponent while you're not armed, no matter what weapon.

Even very simple weapons can inflict massive damage. We should just go with spears. I appreciate your other suggestions though.

That's not true at all. The Elder Scrolls has always had Hand-to-hand combat. Daggerfall, Battlespire, Morrowind, and Oblivion ALL have hand to hand as a major skill, and Skyrim has ways to enchant your gloves to do more unarmed damage, not to mention Khajiit and Argonians almost always having a bonus to unarmed damage.

That's actually a pretty good point.

I didn't think of that.

edward_frigidhands

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Could make it 1h + offhand shield and give it an amazonian vibe.





Also, I found a really old post on reddit about this topic which has a ESO screenshot of an argonian holding a spear & shield (some trial glitch or something)

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9d7j00/spear_and_shield_would_be_cool_but_its_not_what_i/

That looks really cool.

Galiferno

build a time machine and convince Todd to put in spears before Oblivion's development was finished. Then we'll be living in the spear TES timeline

Auldwulfe

While I would enjoy a spear line, and the options opened with it.... I don't see it happening.
I do wish they would let us just hit things with a staff.....a physical damage line of staves would be welcome... but I'm not holding my breath for it.

As for monk, take a Nightblade, use the Tsaesci axes, which look like kama, and put it in the Ancestral Akiviri outfit, and it works.... more or less.

Auldwulfe

katanagirl1

SilverIce58 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Unarmed isn't a real fighting style in a world where armed and magical combat is common. I understand its a fictional world and everything but there are things that will stretch your imagine a bit too much in my opinion. A lot of unarmed combat general involves disabling and/or disarming your opponent.

You can't right really fight a trained and armed opponent while you're not armed, no matter what weapon.

Even very simple weapons can inflict massive damage. We should just go with spears. I appreciate your other suggestions though.

That's not true at all. The Elder Scrolls has always had Hand-to-hand combat. Daggerfall, Battlespire, Morrowind, and Oblivion ALL have hand to hand as a major skill, and Skyrim has ways to enchant your gloves to do more unarmed damage, not to mention Khajiit and Argonians almost always having a bonus to unarmed damage.

These previous games were single player though, right? I don’t know because they didn’t come out on console.

You can do a lot more hand waving and justify things when it’s not a multiplayer game.

Yeah, typically unarmed combat is for defense. I can’t see unarmed beating any other player with weapons in a duel. The damage for unarmed is going to be far less.

ZoeliTintanie

How come we only have 2 magicka based weapons though and so many physical?
What about magicka alternatives to Swords/Shield, dual wield? Magicka has no 1h weapons at all or shields.
(orbs, tomes, magic-talons/"unarmed" but with magicka effects like elemental overload) could be a jewelcrafting-crafted weapon combo or something.

Spears would be interesting especially as a magicka alternative with acess to Shields or 1h weapons to go with it.

SilverIce58

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not spears again! Sorry, just this particular weapon has been suggested a lot and personally, I don’t see the appeal. Other weapon skill lines that introduced a new fighting style or magic (alteration or illusion staves, staff/bo fighting, unarmed) could be interesting, IMO, and not require new motif/style pages.

Unarmed isn't a real fighting style in a world where armed and magical combat is common. I understand its a fictional world and everything but there are things that will stretch your imagine a bit too much in my opinion. A lot of unarmed combat general involves disabling and/or disarming your opponent.

You can't right really fight a trained and armed opponent while you're not armed, no matter what weapon.

Even very simple weapons can inflict massive damage. We should just go with spears. I appreciate your other suggestions though.

That's not true at all. The Elder Scrolls has always had Hand-to-hand combat. Daggerfall, Battlespire, Morrowind, and Oblivion ALL have hand to hand as a major skill, and Skyrim has ways to enchant your gloves to do more unarmed damage, not to mention Khajiit and Argonians almost always having a bonus to unarmed damage.

These previous games were single player though, right? I don’t know because they didn’t come out on console.

You can do a lot more hand waving and justify things when it’s not a multiplayer game.

Yeah, typically unarmed combat is for defense. I can’t see unarmed beating any other player with weapons in a duel. The damage for unarmed is going to be far less.

Other MMO's can do unarmed combat just fine, why wouldn't ESO be able to? It is very common to see in MMOs a hand to hand/Monk type of class.

It's still part of the lore, as the Khajiit have a whole culture around it (granted, to some its seen as more a form of meditation, but others see it as a form of combat as well). Now does that mean every race should be allowed to use Khajiiti Claw-Dances? Not really as they didn't become accepted into other cultures until the 3rd era, but I'm sure there could be some society out there who trains in unarmored combat. It's not infeasible as Tamriel is a huge land with different cultures and people.

dmnqwk

A magicka based option would be superior option - since we have dual wield and 2h plus bow for stamina, but only staff for magicka.

Trouble is, since one doesn't exist in the real world it's tough to come up with one in the fantasy world (and wands are not the answer since it wants to be a melee one.

A holo-whip (like the ferengi) would be an option, since dk already have the basis for the action. But again, it's just the short-sightedness of the world builders not to create a melee magicka option for the lore.

GooGa592

Spears would be new to the game, but it's far from a new idea. People been suggesting it since 2015 and probably earlier. If it was gonna happen it would have by now. Templars already have spears of light...or did until the U35 debacle that gave them a night hollow stave for their main spear ability.

ZoeliTintanie

They could do a "new" weapon of sorts and mix the DK Whip, Templar Javelin, Templar Jabs, Sorc Overload plus some other variation of animations and make a whip-blade of some kind.
It could turn into a Spear/Javelin visual for ranged and if the target is in melee it could turn into the whip/overload visual.

Kind of like Ivy from Soul Calibur

OtarTheMad

Spears wouldn’t make sense to me. What else can you do with a spear that isn’t already part of the Templar Aedric Spear skill line?

Stab it? Jabs
Throw it? Javelin
Throw up into the air? Blazing Spear
Charge at someone? Charge
Whip it around you hitting all in front? Ultimate

ZoeliTintanie

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Spears wouldn’t make sense to me. What else can you do with a spear that isn’t already part of the Templar Aedric Spear skill line?

Stab it? Jabs
Throw it? Javelin
Throw up into the air? Blazing Spear
Charge at someone? Charge
Whip it around you hitting all in front? Ultimate

Which is exactly why its strange that Spears aren't in game as a useable weapon

Tommy_The_Gun

Ignoring (and not not having in your game) the most basic type of weapon and most effective type of melee weapon is just weird. Quarterstaff and pole weapons (spears, pikes, Hellebarde etc) were the most prominent & important weapons arguably of all time. They were only made obsolete by firearms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o71X08qQppI

Bonus:

Why later on after Oblivion crisis Argonians all of the sudden were able to invade Dunmers & have a little payback for years of slavery ?

It was not the Hist, they just had spears. You can see plenty of them practising in Murkmire, already in ESO in Second Era...