Am I reading this wrong? Overreacting?

Punches_Below_Belt

ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Hi everyone,

We’d like to start off by saying we know this situation is upsetting and we recognize many of you are angry. To say we’re disappointed this happened is an understatement and we empathize with those that are still locked out of their accounts. Just know we are working around the clock on this and will share more information about what happened and what we plan to do to make things right later this week.

Today, the first priority is getting the PTS back online which should be finished in the next few hours. We will then focus on going through all the affected accounts to get everyone their accounts back as quickly as possible. We also want to clarify that any ill-gotten gains from this issue, such as items and all currency that may have been distributed, will be removed from the economy.

Thanks for sticking with us and we’ll let you know when the PTS is back online.

Their priority is to get the PTS back up and running before they address the accounts that have been quarantined? Why would the PTS take priority over players? There are six weeks to worry about the PTS but every hour a player is without their account, is one more hour a customer might leave and not comeback. These are some of the most important accounts in the game in terms of money spent and leading and informing the players. Why would you fix the PTS when the players most likely to log into it are all suspended.

[Snip]

Whatever is going on, please don’t lose sight of or take for granted your players. This post makes it sound like the players are an after thought not a priority.

[Edited for Conspiracy Theories]

jaws343

Probably because they already mentioned it will take days to restore accounts, and a few hours to restore the PTS. So, doing the PTS preserves the integrity of their testing timeline for a patch that probably has a lot of player money invested in already, while objectively being a very short turn around compared to the much longer process of restoring accounts.

DerAlleinTiger

I think it's just a simple matter of the PTS being much easier and quicker to get back up and running compared to going through all of the accounts. It makes sense to get the PTS up before putting all resources into the latter. However... I would definitely say that the way it was worded is NOT doing ZOS any favors in the PR sense. Even if it's just a matter of rewording, not calling the PTS 'first priority' while people are without accounts would probably have been a lot better just in terms of optics. Even if you had to fluff it up a bit and say "We're working around the clock to get accounts back up and running, *meanwhile* our PTS team has an ETA of several hours." or something like that. Does it change reality? No. Does it come across a lot better to already-annoyed and agitated players? Yes.

AngelicaDLynn

Quite frankly they won't do anything to make it right. I haven't been on the PTS in years and have never even downloaded it to this computer (Have had it for like 8 years) so it isn't I was on the PTS. Shoot I know I didn't have at least 8 of my accounts when I was last in the PTS. I expect exactly nothing from them. I am pretty much finished with them, especially if it takes days. They could have screwed up BEFORE I paid for three months of sub. I am tired of the issues.

Elsonso

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

Their priority is to get the PTS back up and running before they address the accounts that have been quarantined? Why would the PTS take priority over players? There are six weeks to worry about the PTS but every hour a player is without their account, is one more hour a customer might leave and not comeback. These are some of the most important accounts in the game in terms of money spent and leading and informing the players. Why would you fix the PTS when the players most likely to log into it are all suspended.

[Snip]

Whatever is going on, please don’t lose sight of or take for granted your players. This post makes it sound like the players are an after thought not a priority.

Two things come to mind.

1) The live services team that is bringing up PTS is not the same team that has to go through each account that got messed up, one at a time.
2) PTS is probably low hanging fruit, at this point, and there is no reason to keep PTS shut down while the accounts are being sorted.

[Edited quote]

ArchangelIsraphel

While the wording of Gina's post could have been a bit better, I understand what she intended to say.

I think we all need to realize that they are likely being pressured by people in higher positions than they are to get the PTS back online. Not only so that their development timeline remains on schedule, but to iron out the issues with it.

While we may personally feel that the PTS should not be a priority at the moment, fixing the issues with it is something that must be done so that problems like these cannot be repeated. It would not be a good thing for them to fix accounts without getting the very thing that caused the problem to begin with sorted and out of the way.

I imagine they want those issues resolved, and off of the minds of their team, so that more care can be taken to sort through accounts and get everyone back up and running.

As for the rest of your post, while ZOS might miss the mark with drop rates once in a while, I highly doubt anyone on the team had any intention to be deliberately malicious. Gina is trying to be open with us, and is acknowledging our feelings on the matter.

I'm not normally one to mince words when it comes to disappointment, but knowing that they intend to try their best to make things right is comforting, and I get the honest impression that they are just as bewildered as we are by what has happened.

It shouldn't have happened at all, and I'd really like to know the full story behind what happened. But at this point, I genuinely sympathize with the devs as much as I do the anger of my fellow players.

chessalavakia_ESO

Fixing the PTS might also include lifting the bans for the PTS which would give those of us that can't play Live something to do.

Personally, all I would be doing on Live is doing the daily endeavors, collecting the daily login reward, interacting with the cake, and opening one glorious box.

Perhaps I'm being too optimistic but, I assume that those of us that are currently banned will be getting that at a minimum in compensation so to me I don't really care that much that I can't get on to Live at the moment.

Obviously, this is far worse for people that have scheduled runs on live that they are missing but, that's not me.

ZOS tends to mostly update the PTS based on early feedback so losing out on it could be disruptive.

Edit: It appears bans still apply to the PTS

CameraBeardThePirate

Have you ever heard of the method of paying off debt called the Snowball method? Applies to things like finishing multiple projects as well.

If you have multiple projects with a tight time limit, you start by finishing the project that is the quickest to finish first, that way you can devote more time and effort into finishing the bigger projects.

ZOS is just doing this. Fixing PTS is a much easier task than restoring old accounts, tracking down PTS gold/mats, and deciding how to deal with the bad actors that tried to take advantage of the situation. Fixing PTS first allows them to devote more resources to restoring account access. It doesn't mean they've "forgotten about the players", it's just common sense.

Seraphayel

You seriously asking why bringing their own server back online is more important than to fix some accounts? Like come on. The banned players are in an unfortunate situation and have every right to be upset, but in the grand picture they don’t matter - in contrast to the PTS, which is a vital part of this game‘s lifecycle.

Punches_Below_Belt

“Vital part of this game’s lifecycle”? Am I missing the sarcasm? It used to be 4 weeks. Only a fraction of a percent of players even venture into the PTS. An even smaller fraction give feedback and even smaller fraction yet have their feedback change the final product at release. For a decade now, those who provide feedback, have complained non-stop that the feedback they provide is ignored.

The only thing “vital” about the PTS is the PR it provides.

ElderSmitter

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Hi everyone,
.
[Snip]

Whatever is going on, please don’t lose sight of or take for granted your players. This post makes it sound like the players are an after thought not a priority.

[Snip]

Drop rates for Items is RNG and some players get things sooner than others. When you have this many people in an event and usually or mostly negative feedback hits the forums, you're going to here from the ones who have had bad RNG first. I have been on both sides of it and yes it can be brutal but also part of the game and very rewarding.

Cheers

[Edited quote and for removed content]

Mike71

Maybe I'm making it too easy for myself. But what would have been the problem with turning off the servers? Rollback to a point in time before the PTS was opened.This should be quicker than checking 100s of accounts. This means that all items that were acquired illegally would be deleted. Event extended for a few days. In the meantime, the others could take care of the problem with the PTS. And everything would be fine. But as I said, maybe I'm making it too easy for myself.

Seraphayel

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

“Vital part of this game’s lifecycle”? Am I missing the sarcasm? It used to be 4 weeks. Only a fraction of a percent of players even venture into the PTS. An even smaller fraction give feedback and even smaller fraction yet have their feedback change the final product at release. For a decade now, those who provide feedback, have complained non-stop that the feedback they provide is ignored.

The only thing “vital” about the PTS is the PR it provides.

I mean if it’s only a fraction of a percent of players that’s exactly the amount affected by the entire problem. If you think the PTS is not vital for the game, that’s fair. But it‘s still more important for the development of this game than a fraction of a percent of players‘ banned accounts.

TKo_ROUSE

Seraphayel wrote: »

You seriously asking why bringing their own server back online is more important than to fix some accounts? Like come on. The banned players are in an unfortunate situation and have every right to be upset, but in the grand picture they don’t matter - in contrast to the PTS, which is a vital part of this game‘s lifecycle.

You realize the people who got banned are all PTS testers

tsaescishoeshiner

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

You seriously asking why bringing their own server back online is more important than to fix some accounts? Like come on. The banned players are in an unfortunate situation and have every right to be upset, but in the grand picture they don’t matter - in contrast to the PTS, which is a vital part of this game‘s lifecycle.

You realize the people who got banned are all PTS testers

Not everyone who wants to try out the PTS was account-locked yesterday. For example, I wasn't available to log in before the PTS was taken down. My account isn't locked, and I can log in later today.

DerAlleinTiger

Seraphayel wrote: »

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

“Vital part of this game’s lifecycle”? Am I missing the sarcasm? It used to be 4 weeks. Only a fraction of a percent of players even venture into the PTS. An even smaller fraction give feedback and even smaller fraction yet have their feedback change the final product at release. For a decade now, those who provide feedback, have complained non-stop that the feedback they provide is ignored.

The only thing “vital” about the PTS is the PR it provides.

I mean if it’s only a fraction of a percent of players that’s exactly the amount affected by the entire problem. If you think the PTS is not vital for the game, that’s fair. But it‘s still more important for the development of this game than a fraction of a percent of players‘ banned accounts.

Except that what very little use anyone actually gets out of the PTS outside of previewing upcoming crown stuff or doing mock-ups of housing instances relies on - you know - the players actually being there. So if the players aren't there the value of the PTS is null, which means that no matter how small the percentage of players it is, it's worth more than the PTS... especially now since what few people actually bothered with it is going to shrink even more out of a lack of trust that they won't find themselves locked out of their accounts for it.

[Snip]. I don't blame ZOS for working to get the PTS up first. It makes sense for all the reasons that have been stated in this threat, but I also don't blame people locked out of their accounts for being pretty upset hearing that they aren't "first priority" given their circumstances. Maybe if the PTS actually seemed to matter in the dev cycle, people would feel different, but it doesn't and they don't. Like I said in my first post above, their wording isn't helping with their PR, no matter how true it might be, because for every person who reads it and understands what they mean and why, another dozen see 'the PTS is first priority' and take it as a slight as a paying customer.

If you don't agree with that, fine, but if you can't at least understand that and where they're coming from I have to question how honest you're being in your argumentation.

[Edited for baiting/bashing]

Seraphayel

DerAlleinTiger wrote: »

If you don't agree with that, fine, but if you can't at least understand that and where they're coming from I have to question how honest you're being in your argumentation.

I even acknowledged that people are rightfully upset about the whole situation. That doesn’t change my point though and that has nothing to do with lack of sympathy: for the development of this game the PTS is important. I have no idea why some say now it’s not. Okay, it‘s not important, but the first thing you’ve done the moment the PTS went online was logging into it to check out the new stuff? So, is it important or not? Seems like many couldn’t await trying all that out.

My issue is that some players seem to think that their individual problem is more important than the universal one. And for me that reeks a bit of entitlement. So before you’re coming for me again, read my first sentence. These players have every right to be upset and should get compensated accordingly. But there still needs to be some reason behind all this and many seem to lack exactly that. Some were even begging for a collectivist punishment that everybody is at the same disadvantage (roll back the entire server), which is just wrong on so many levels.

cyberjanet

The PTS is no longer a safe place to be. I don't care how long it takes to get back up, I'm not going back there ever.
And I am in anguish for those players who have been suspended for going to take a look.

Sync01

It's an interesting choice of words, but I do imagine that getting pts up and running includes fixing the issue and making sure it can't spread/be replicated. To me it makes sense to do that first and then deal with the individual accounts, rather than the other way around.

DoofusMax

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

Their priority is to get the PTS back up and running before they address the accounts that have been quarantined? Why would the PTS take priority over players? There are six weeks to worry about the PTS but every hour a player is without their account, is one more hour a customer might leave and not comeback. These are some of the most important accounts in the game in terms of money spent and leading and informing the players. Why would you fix the PTS when the players most likely to log into it are all suspended.

There are two separate bits at work here. First is the data (the accounts which got suspended) and second is the servers which use that data (PTS and the PC NA server). I strongly suspect that getting the servers back up was the quicker and simpler task, so why not? I also suspect that there are multiple teams at work on the entire issue, but the server teams probably aren't the ones doing the account rollbacks/restorations. Put those two together and the natural result is that servers come up first and the more time-consuming accounts work gets dealt with as it gets dealt with.

The second point contains a fallacy, or is at least a bit misleading. The accounts which got suspended (including mine) are not necessarily the most likely to log into PTS (a three or four times per year event for me, but we shall not dwell on the time spent waiting for PTS updates to finish before getting to the regular playing). They were simply the first accounts to log in, probably to check out the new chapter (I'd really like to see a data point on how many of the currently suspended accounts were in West Weald during the hour or so before the problems). Different incentives yield different outcomes.

As for leaving and not coming back, that's quite the leap. I will not speak for others, but this issue is far down on the list of reasons why I might be tempted to throw in the towel on ESO. It's fine if it's high on yours, but this is at worst an inconvenience on my list, I do not yet know what ZOS' entire response is going to be (other than I'm not going to be able to log in for a couple or three days), so I hope you'll forgive my lack of outrage at the moment. I may be outraged later, but I'm merely inconvenienced now and I will somehow survive the inconvenience (maybe I go play Sims for a while).

SaffronCitrusflower

Solution: Uninstall the PTS and never log onto the PTS again. Easy.

Carcamongus

Seraphayel wrote: »

You seriously asking why bringing their own server back online is more important than to fix some accounts? Like come on. The banned players are in an unfortunate situation and have every right to be upset, but in the grand picture they don’t matter - in contrast to the PTS, which is a vital part of this game‘s lifecycle.

In the grand picture the banned players don't matter?? I could see some sense in stating the game's integrity takes precedence, but saying they don't matter is outright disrespectful. Furthermore, upset players are way more likely to stop playing the game and the devs have been making plenty of people upset lately. If enough people give up on the game, then having a functioning PTS won't matter that much.

gronoxvx

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Solution: Uninstall the PTS and never log onto the PTS again. Easy.

Or just uninstall the game. This helped me.

Destai

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

Their priority is to get the PTS back up and running before they address the accounts that have been quarantined? Why would the PTS take priority over players? There are six weeks to worry about the PTS but every hour a player is without their account, is one more hour a customer might leave and not comeback. These are some of the most important accounts in the game in terms of money spent and leading and informing the players. Why would you fix the PTS when the players most likely to log into it are all suspended.

It's baffling to see PTS taking the priority. If I had to guess, it's probably because of development schedules and team allocations. Bringing PTS back up probably impacts development teams, while the current production is handled by support and related services. That's just my guess. The optics are not good though; they should be speaking to this as time allows.

As for the core concern you had, I don’t believe there’s anything malicious here. Speaking from experience, I have seen issues with deploying competing code branches. If someone or something is new to that, then issues are increasingly likely. I had a big implementation a few years ago where the middleware teams had that exact problem.

It's also likely there's some processes that need to be vastly improved. Whatever it is, it feels similar in flavor to what we've seen with the event issues earlier in the year, only worse. I really hope once the dust's settled, there's some transparency on their end on what truly happened. We deserve no less.

I will say, they communicated pretty actively, seemingly overnight, and all had to work hard to get this sorted out. Hopefully once things calm, they start reviewing how to best compensate PC players for this. It probably should be something better than a guar.

Photosniper89

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Hi everyone,

We’d like to start off by saying we know this situation is upsetting and we recognize many of you are angry. To say we’re disappointed this happened is an understatement and we empathize with those that are still locked out of their accounts. Just know we are working around the clock on this and will share more information about what happened and what we plan to do to make things right later this week.

Today, the first priority is getting the PTS back online which should be finished in the next few hours. We will then focus on going through all the affected accounts to get everyone their accounts back as quickly as possible. We also want to clarify that any ill-gotten gains from this issue, such as items and all currency that may have been distributed, will be removed from the economy.

Thanks for sticking with us and we’ll let you know when the PTS is back online.

Their priority is to get the PTS back up and running before they address the accounts that have been quarantined? Why would the PTS take priority over players? There are six weeks to worry about the PTS but every hour a player is without their account, is one more hour a customer might leave and not comeback. These are some of the most important accounts in the game in terms of money spent and leading and informing the players. Why would you fix the PTS when the players most likely to log into it are all suspended.

[Snip]

Whatever is going on, please don’t lose sight of or take for granted your players. This post makes it sound like the players are an after thought not a priority.

I promise you PVErs aren’t an after thought when it comes to this situation - pvpers are an after thought when it comes to last weeks “bug”.

[Edited quote]

xclassgaming

Destai wrote: »

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

Their priority is to get the PTS back up and running before they address the accounts that have been quarantined? Why would the PTS take priority over players? There are six weeks to worry about the PTS but every hour a player is without their account, is one more hour a customer might leave and not comeback. These are some of the most important accounts in the game in terms of money spent and leading and informing the players. Why would you fix the PTS when the players most likely to log into it are all suspended.

It's baffling to see PTS taking the priority. If I had to guess, it's probably because of development schedules and team allocations. Bringing PTS back up probably impacts development teams, while the current production is handled by support and related services. That's just my guess. The optics are not good though; they should be speaking to this as time allows.

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

It's also likely there's some processes that need to be vastly improved. Whatever it is, it feels similar in flavor to what we've seen with the event issues earlier in the year, only worse. I really hope once the dust's settled, there's some transparency on their end on what truly happened. We deserve no less.

I will say, they communicated pretty actively, seemingly overnight, and all had to work hard to get this sorted out. Hopefully once things calm, they start reviewing how to best compensate PC players for this. It probably should be something better than a guar.

the tickets, endevours and daily rewwards we have lost is what we DESERVE.

[Edited quote]

LannStone

Don't the developers use PTS as well as players to test the game?

Katheriah

Let's be honest, PR wise the first thing to be done was unban the streamers that are now streaming login screens. Happy 10th Anniversary!

jtm1018

Is this the reason why the server is so [Snip] lagtastic?
Cant play a decent bg match, without thinking that theres a new ability called teleportation, under the lagtastic skill line.

[Edited for profanity bypass]

barney2525

years ago I attempted using the PTS. ended up having to uninstall my game to install access to the PTS server.

and then it didn't work.

so I had to uninstall the whole game and reinstall the normal server access and never even considered worrying about PTS.

and now I'm glad I made that decision

thinkaboutit

What good is bringing the servers back online if the economy has been tainted with PTS gold!??!?!

Rollback should have been implemented!