Necromancer Should Be Reworked As A Proper Pet Class

Napalm_Death32

Now with the Gold Road DLC inbound, i'd like to bring up this topic again, Many us Necromancers wants it be done as a Pet Class on par with the Sorceror, Its like they mixed up the classes.
By all means the Sorceror can remain as a Pet Class but allow the Necromancer to summon the dead, either temporary or Permanent, Zombies etc.

Sorceror can remain as a daedra summoner, While a necro can be ahorde summoner, In a dungeon or pve it will be excellent able to summon cheap and expendable undead and zombies to attack the enemy or boss, allowing DoT or chip damage, creating aggro etc. it will also work as an healer, able to easily revive fallen group members or players.

Use the example of previous Elder Scrolls Necromancers as an example, Which is what most Necromancers expected when the class dropped, Necromancer you always thinking of summoning the dead, minions, reanimating zombies to fight on your behalf etc

Trejgon

To be fair, Sorcerer could use some pet reworks itself, but considering that necromancer is a chapter class, and the general sentiment being it is is much worse state, I'd support necromancer overhaul before sorcerer daedric summoning overhaul.

Napalm_Death32

Trejgon wrote: »

To be fair, Sorcerer could use some pet reworks itself, but considering that necromancer is a chapter class, and the general sentiment being it is is much worse state, I'd support necromancer overhaul before sorcerer daedric summoning overhaul.

Yeah i logged into NA with my Necro and man has it been made almost useless, Blast bones got wrecked, It didn't need a nerf, it needed a proper overhaul into a summoner class or a horde class

Hapexamendios

My skeletons aren't pets, they're minions

BXR_Lonestar

It kinda feels like they don't even know what they want the necro to be TBH the corpse play is an interesting mechanic, but its too clunky and unreliable for it to actually work that way in most situations. The set Nobility in Decay helps offset that, but at the cost of a 5 piece set, and the its bonuses are more geared towards survivability than damage. So it just kinda seems like they want the necro to be tanky, and that is it?

TheMessengerOfDeath

Necro is the most unnecessary complicated and convoluted class, I’ve ever played in any mmo. Necro is by far the worst at pretty much everything besides being a tank. Who knew dark magic, undead summoners in light armor would be good at getting smacked in the face. Class should honestly just be scraped and re made from the ground up.

OsUfi

We have pets. Blastbones, Mage and Guardian.

This is what I expected from an Elder Scrolls necro. Maybe a thrall, one at a time. Not sure if that would work so well in an MMO though, so mage and guardian are good replacements for thralls.

JerBearESO

They could just make the corpse mechanic also summon a miniature BlastBones whenever a corpse is consumed.

RebornV3x

Sorc has always been in this weird state is it a battlemage or a summoner class its like 75% battlemage and like 25% summoner and Sorc has an identity problem I would make Necro a proper summoner class and get rid of sorc summons reskin them and give them to necro and then give sorc two new abilities one being a spammable that the sorc class unlike any other class lacks and then another ability that gives a major group buff since sorc still lack on that front.

Sorc should be a battlemage class and not a summoner

xylena_lazarow

Do whatever with pets for PvE and RP, just please for the love of Sithis make tab targeting work properly in PvP, or make all pets untargetable in PvP. Body blocking while you have the enemy player targeted and tabbed is absolute garbage, and it's no better for the pet player where in large scale PvP the pets immediately get targeted and zerged down (repeatedly).

Deimus

I'll just leave my rework proposal here:

Grave Lord Tree

Flame Skull Move the GLS boost to this skill to the Flame Skull skill itself have the 3rd cast create a corpse and deal AoE damage, but I'd also tack on undodgeable to the base skill like Warden's Cliff Racer dive used to have.

Sacrificial Bones Would perform like the old skill where it runs and explodes on the target enemy. After the initial AoE blast all enemies hit will be afflicted with a 10 second DoT that will have two larger ticks. Each of the larger ticks will create a corpse and in total will deal 10800 damage over its duration which is the equivalent of 3 blastbones so over the course of 12.5 seconds you'd have 4 "blastbones" with one cast. For 10 seconds after Sacrificial Bones hits its target increase all damage from Necromancer skills and DoTs by 5%. Increased Magicka cost to 4500 and if the DoT doesn't find a target the bone fragments return to the caster restoring 1500 Magicka.

• Grave Lord's Possession This morph would also apply Minor Cowardice to targets in the AoE blast while granting the caster Minor Courage for 10 seconds. If the DoT is cleansed prematurely one of the larger ticks will automatically trigger.

Boneyard I'd keep this skill the same with one exception. Desecrate the ground at target location for 10 seconds applying "Touch of the Grave" a sticky DoT that attaches to all enemies who enter the desecrated ground dealing 3080 Frost Damage over 10 seconds. If a corpse was consumed on cast Touch of the Grave deals 30% more damage. An ally standing in the graveyard can activate the Grave Robber synergy, dealing 2249 Frost Damage to enemies in the area and healing for the damage done.

Skeletal Mage First thing I would do is increase the tooltip damage by 50% from 462 to 693Shock Damage every 2 seconds I'd do the same for both morphs. The second thing is adding Major Brutality/Sorcery to the skill in one of two ways while the minion is active, or when slotted on either bar. The final change is adding this skill to the list of controllable pets.

Shocking Siphon I like the idea of the tethers and think they are visually great, but hamper mobility immensely unless the Necromancer becomes the focal point of the skill. So I would remove this skill and replace it with:
Flesh Atronach Created to do your bidding the Flesh Atronach will deal 500 Shock Damage to an enemy (Will be controllable). If this ability is recast while active the Atronach will do a slam attack on targeted enemy dealing 1000 damage and an stunning the target for 2 seconds (unblockable). While slotted on either bar increases your damage done by 3%. Requires three corpses to cast and remains until killed or dismissed. Does not leave a usable corpse.

• Conductive Stitching This morph will turn the slam into an AoE giving a 4 second snare to additional enemies around the target, and will increases the duration of the stun and snare by 10% per corpse in the area up to 30%.
• Putrid Flesh Converts the Shock damage to 600 Poison Damage. When killed or recast instead of the stun ability the Atronach will explode for 3000 Disease Damage. The explosion can consume up to 2 corpses within 8 meters, each corpse increasing the damage by 25%. If recast you will be able to direct where the Atronach goes to explode.

Bone Tyrant Tree

Death Scythe Add a scaling execute to this skill and its morphs to deal up to 300% increased damage to enemies under 40% Health.

Summoner's Armor Increase the duration of this morph from 20 seconds up to 30 seconds. Recasting corpse generating abilities after they have been active for 10 seconds drops a corpse regardless, and Necromancer already has so many short timers to juggle. So in a minion centered playstyle it will help alleviate the feeling of being a buff simulator.

Disdain Harm While a Bone Tyrant ability is active gain Minor Resolve and reduce the damage you take from DoT abilities by 15%.

Bone Totem I would move the buff to increase your minion's damage and healing by 500 from Empowering Grasp to the Totem and its morphs while active and lower the potency from 1000 to 500. Thematically the totem is there to enhance yourself and allies while cursing your enemies so if a move is going to buff your minions this should be the one to do it. My other reason is getting your minions in the Empowering grasp effect is extremely difficult and unreliable, but taking the difficulty into account I cut the buff in half for the totem.

Grave Grasp Another really cool visual skill, but not very useful in application. I would change the ability to be placed manually, and have a larger consolidated area split into 3 zones. The Outer ring will snare, immobilize in the middle ring, and stun in the center. Applying Minor Main to enemies in all 3 zones.

• Ghostly Embrace Skeletal hands stun target for 3 seconds and immobilize enemies within 3 meters of the target. Enemies in the area are afflicted with Minor Maim and Minor Mangle. If the target is immune to cc it takes 1200 Frost Damage instead.
• Empowering Grasp Still grants Empower and reduces the cost, but the minion buff is moved to Bone Totem.

Living Death Tree

Expunge Give the ability cost reduction of 3% the on either bar treatment for this skill and its morphs.

Spirit Mender Increase the healing of mender and both morphs by 30% and change the duration for the base skill and the Spirit Guardian morph from 16 seconds to 20 seconds.

Restoring Tether I would change how the tether works. Either it ignores LoS between the corpse and the caster as it's a spiritual construct not a physical one, or if it must break from LoS the heal will radiate from the corpse and caster each at 50% reduced potency and will automatically reconnect once LoS is established again.

Undead Confederate Increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery by 100 for each minion you have active. Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, Spirit Mender, and Flesh Atronach each count as a minion.

Napalm_Death32

Deimus wrote: »

I'll just leave my rework proposal here:

Grave Lord Tree

Flame Skull Move the GLS boost to this skill to the Flame Skull skill itself have the 3rd cast create a corpse and deal AoE damage, but I'd also tack on undodgeable to the base skill like Warden's Cliff Racer dive used to have.

Sacrificial Bones Would perform like the old skill where it runs and explodes on the target enemy. After the initial AoE blast all enemies hit will be afflicted with a 10 second DoT that will have two larger ticks. Each of the larger ticks will create a corpse and in total will deal 10800 damage over its duration which is the equivalent of 3 blastbones so over the course of 12.5 seconds you'd have 4 "blastbones" with one cast. For 10 seconds after Sacrificial Bones hits its target increase all damage from Necromancer skills and DoTs by 5%. Increased Magicka cost to 4500 and if the DoT doesn't find a target the bone fragments return to the caster restoring 1500 Magicka.

• Grave Lord's Possession This morph would also apply Minor Cowardice to targets in the AoE blast while granting the caster Minor Courage for 10 seconds. If the DoT is cleansed prematurely one of the larger ticks will automatically trigger.

Boneyard I'd keep this skill the same with one exception. Desecrate the ground at target location for 10 seconds applying "Touch of the Grave" a sticky DoT that attaches to all enemies who enter the desecrated ground dealing 3080 Frost Damage over 10 seconds. If a corpse was consumed on cast Touch of the Grave deals 30% more damage. An ally standing in the graveyard can activate the Grave Robber synergy, dealing 2249 Frost Damage to enemies in the area and healing for the damage done.

Skeletal Mage First thing I would do is increase the tooltip damage by 50% from 462 to 693Shock Damage every 2 seconds I'd do the same for both morphs. The second thing is adding Major Brutality/Sorcery to the skill in one of two ways while the minion is active, or when slotted on either bar. The final change is adding this skill to the list of controllable pets.

Shocking Siphon I like the idea of the tethers and think they are visually great, but hamper mobility immensely unless the Necromancer becomes the focal point of the skill. So I would remove this skill and replace it with:
Flesh Atronach Created to do your bidding the Flesh Atronach will deal 500 Shock Damage to an enemy (Will be controllable). If this ability is recast while active the Atronach will do a slam attack on targeted enemy dealing 1000 damage and an stunning the target for 2 seconds (unblockable). While slotted on either bar increases your damage done by 3%. Requires three corpses to cast and remains until killed or dismissed. Does not leave a usable corpse.

• Conductive Stitching This morph will turn the slam into an AoE giving a 4 second snare to additional enemies around the target, and will increases the duration of the stun and snare by 10% per corpse in the area up to 30%.
• Putrid Flesh Converts the Shock damage to 600 Poison Damage. When killed or recast instead of the stun ability the Atronach will explode for 3000 Disease Damage. The explosion can consume up to 2 corpses within 8 meters, each corpse increasing the damage by 25%. If recast you will be able to direct where the Atronach goes to explode.

Bone Tyrant Tree

Death Scythe Add a scaling execute to this skill and its morphs to deal up to 300% increased damage to enemies under 40% Health.

Summoner's Armor Increase the duration of this morph from 20 seconds up to 30 seconds. Recasting corpse generating abilities after they have been active for 10 seconds drops a corpse regardless, and Necromancer already has so many short timers to juggle. So in a minion centered playstyle it will help alleviate the feeling of being a buff simulator.

Disdain Harm While a Bone Tyrant ability is active gain Minor Resolve and reduce the damage you take from DoT abilities by 15%.

Bone Totem I would move the buff to increase your minion's damage and healing by 500 from Empowering Grasp to the Totem and its morphs while active and lower the potency from 1000 to 500. Thematically the totem is there to enhance yourself and allies while cursing your enemies so if a move is going to buff your minions this should be the one to do it. My other reason is getting your minions in the Empowering grasp effect is extremely difficult and unreliable, but taking the difficulty into account I cut the buff in half for the totem.

Grave Grasp Another really cool visual skill, but not very useful in application. I would change the ability to be placed manually, and have a larger consolidated area split into 3 zones. The Outer ring will snare, immobilize in the middle ring, and stun in the center. Applying Minor Main to enemies in all 3 zones.

• Ghostly Embrace Skeletal hands stun target for 3 seconds and immobilize enemies within 3 meters of the target. Enemies in the area are afflicted with Minor Maim and Minor Mangle. If the target is immune to cc it takes 1200 Frost Damage instead.
• Empowering Grasp Still grants Empower and reduces the cost, but the minion buff is moved to Bone Totem.

Living Death Tree

Expunge Give the ability cost reduction of 3% the on either bar treatment for this skill and its morphs.

Spirit Mender Increase the healing of mender and both morphs by 30% and change the duration for the base skill and the Spirit Guardian morph from 16 seconds to 20 seconds.

Restoring Tether I would change how the tether works. Either it ignores LoS between the corpse and the caster as it's a spiritual construct not a physical one, or if it must break from LoS the heal will radiate from the corpse and caster each at 50% reduced potency and will automatically reconnect once LoS is established again.

Undead Confederate Increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery by 100 for each minion you have active. Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, Spirit Mender, and Flesh Atronach each count as a minion.

Honestly i would just be happy with able to summon skeletons based on their class and using them as temporary pets

ZoeliTintanie

Careful I Just posted about Wardens & Bear pet and got 25 replies of trolls telling me to go back to WoW to play a druid-pet class. (make it make sense)

Great ideas tho in this post as well gj and i hope necros get proper pet buffs.

Napalm_Death32

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Careful I Just posted about Wardens & Bear pet and got 25 replies of trolls telling me to go back to WoW to play a druid-pet class. (make it make sense)

Great ideas tho in this post as well gj and i hope necros get proper pet buffs.

Yeah trolls are always like that, got nothing better to do than to reveal their personality. Same here, i think the Necromancer should be reworked into what a Necromancer should be, a pet class

Michaelkeir

My guy, I’ve been saying this since DAY 1. I 10000% agree with you. It’s like they mixed the class with the sorcerer class.

STORY TIME - I originally came to this game 9 or so years ago JUST to be able to play a necromancer and I was very disappointed when I found that there wasn’t one. But after looking at the sorcerer class, I noticed it had everything I wanted in a necromancer class. A dot/curse, pets/minions, and a temporary pet ultimate. So I figured I’d play that class until eventually the necromancer class gets introduced.

So when the necromancer was announced, and details came out I was hurt. It’s was more like an apprentice necromancer then a full fledged one. No real pets/minions. No curses or real sticky dots. No zombies or melee skeletons in its kit. Now bone/flesh goliath pet. It was a sad day indeed. Guess I’ll have to wait until the next Elder-scrolls comes out before I can play a necromancer the proper way.

OsUfi

Michaelkeir wrote: »

So when the necromancer was announced, and details came out I was hurt. It’s was more like an apprentice necromancer then a full fledged one. No real pets/minions. No curses or real sticky dots. No zombies or melee skeletons in its kit. Now bone/flesh goliath pet. It was a sad day indeed. Guess I’ll have to wait until the next Elder-scrolls comes out before I can play a necromancer the proper way.

Then you'll be disappointed again. Morrowind, we could summon a skeleton or zombie, from what I recall? Oblivion we could drain health. Skyrim you could have one thrall at a time, and summon daedra which Sorcs do in ESO.

Elder Scrolls necromancers are not Diablo necromancers. The Elder Scrolls necromancers who had a large swath of undead are usually either liches, or the tiny tiny minority, such as Manimarco. The majority of Elder Scrolls necros faff around with black soul gems and such. A more in-lore necro would be something more akin to soul magic than raising the dead.

Anumaril

Fully agree. I've heard some people say we need permanent pets, but while I wouldn't be against it, gameplay-wise it would be better for us to be a horde-summoning class. It would even fit with the fantasy of necromancy in that our minions (the undead) decay, so there's some logic to them being temporary instead of permanent.

I'd absolutely love for them to just rework this class and make it about summoning a small horde of undead minions, each lasting maybe 10-20 seconds at a time (but multiple so they overlap and you're not forced to resummon the same minion every 10 seconds). This could even be worked into a single spell to save on abilities: consume a corpse within 15 metres and summon a skeleton/zombie minion from it, up to 3 active minions at a time. Whether its a melee or ranged minion could depend on what the thing was when it was alive, or could just be randomised.

Other spells could then be about empowering your minion horde, sacrificing one of them to empower another spell, etc.

Anumaril

OsUfi wrote: »

Elder Scrolls necromancers are not Diablo necromancers. The Elder Scrolls necromancers who had a large swath of undead are usually either liches, or the tiny tiny minority, such as Manimarco. The majority of Elder Scrolls necros faff around with black soul gems and such. A more in-lore necro would be something more akin to soul magic than raising the dead.

This just isn't true. Yes, TES necromancers "faff" around with black soul gems and soul magic, but they absolutely deal with raising the dead as well, and it's quite a significant part of their toolkit as seen in basically every TES game and bit of lore available. Even middling necromancers raise minions to serve them, or practice on animals.

Heck, weak NPC necromancers in ESO do this as well. They raise minions and use cool-looking channelled empower spells to help them battle us. There's zero reason for player necromancers not to be about raising the dead first and foremost (including empowering them, etc), with other soul-related spells as secondary. As opposed to how it is now, which is the reverse: generic "dark wizard" spells make up the majority of our toolkit, and we only have 1 offensive minion (Skeletal Archer/Arcanist) that doesn't immediately die like Blighted Blastbones. And even that 1 minion hits like a wet noodle. It does virtually no damage even on overland mobs.

Anifaas

Agree. I always found the ESO implementation of necromancers at odds with the rest of the Elder Scrolls universe. What you’re suggesting, OP, seems more appropriate.

OsUfi

Anumaril wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Elder Scrolls necromancers are not Diablo necromancers. The Elder Scrolls necromancers who had a large swath of undead are usually either liches, or the tiny tiny minority, such as Manimarco. The majority of Elder Scrolls necros faff around with black soul gems and such. A more in-lore necro would be something more akin to soul magic than raising the dead.

This just isn't true. Yes, TES necromancers "faff" around with black soul gems and soul magic, but they absolutely deal with raising the dead as well, and it's quite a significant part of their toolkit as seen in basically every TES game and bit of lore available. Even middling necromancers raise minions to serve them, or practice on animals.

I didn't say necros never raised the dead. In the paragraph that you omitted I even referenced that we were able to raise dead in prior Elder Scrolls games. Usually one at a time. Not an undead horde. I was trying to point out that Elder Scrolls necromancy has rarely been about hordes of undead, like Guild Wars or Diablo necromancers, and far more akin to ESOs soul magic.

Anumaril wrote: »

Heck, weak NPC necromancers in ESO do this as well. They raise minions and use cool-looking channelled empower spells to help them battle us. There's zero reason for player necromancers not to be about raising the dead first and foremost (including empowering them, etc), with other soul-related spells as secondary. As opposed to how it is now, which is the reverse: generic "dark wizard" spells make up the majority of our toolkit, and we only have 1 offensive minion (Skeletal Archer/Arcanist) that doesn't immediately die like Blighted Blastbones. And even that 1 minion hits like a wet noodle. It does virtually no damage even on overland mobs.

We do summon the dead. We summon four undead as a matter of fact. The only thing that'd be more in lore than our current summons is raising a thrall. Which I'd love to see, but realistically, how different is that going to be from our mage/archer gameplay wise?

It already deals more damage than the unstable clanfear, and with 20 second up times, it's very easy to work into rotation with barely any additional CPM.

Vulkunne

No.

Napalm_Death32

Michaelkeir wrote: »

My guy, I’ve been saying this since DAY 1. I 10000% agree with you. It’s like they mixed the class with the sorcerer class.

STORY TIME - I originally came to this game 9 or so years ago JUST to be able to play a necromancer and I was very disappointed when I found that there wasn’t one. But after looking at the sorcerer class, I noticed it had everything I wanted in a necromancer class. A dot/curse, pets/minions, and a temporary pet ultimate. So I figured I’d play that class until eventually the necromancer class gets introduced.

So when the necromancer was announced, and details came out I was hurt. It’s was more like an apprentice necromancer then a full fledged one. No real pets/minions. No curses or real sticky dots. No zombies or melee skeletons in its kit. Now bone/flesh goliath pet. It was a sad day indeed. Guess I’ll have to wait until the next Elder-scrolls comes out before I can play a necromancer the proper way.

Yes i agree

Napalm_Death32

Vulkunne wrote: »

No.

Lol rather stick with a mediocre class? assuming you even played the class

OsUfi

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

No.

Lol rather stick with a mediocre class? assuming you even played the class

I pretty much main and only play necro. Necros need minor buffs. Not a full rework. That's how we ended up with Grave lord Sacs in the first place, and I sure as heck don't want any more of that.

Napalm_Death32

OsUfi wrote: »

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

No.

Lol rather stick with a mediocre class? assuming you even played the class

I pretty much main and only play necro. Necros need minor buffs. Not a full rework. That's how we ended up with Grave lord Sacs in the first place, and I sure as heck don't want any more of that.

I'd be happy with being able to summon hordes of cheap enemies to swarm the enemy

OsUfi

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

No.

Lol rather stick with a mediocre class? assuming you even played the class

I pretty much main and only play necro. Necros need minor buffs. Not a full rework. That's how we ended up with Grave lord Sacs in the first place, and I sure as heck don't want any more of that.

I'd be happy with being able to summon hordes of cheap enemies to swarm the enemy

If I wanted that style of necromancer I'd play Guild Wars 1 or Diablo. Not an Elder Scrolls game.

Napalm_Death32

OsUfi wrote: »

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

No.

Lol rather stick with a mediocre class? assuming you even played the class

I pretty much main and only play necro. Necros need minor buffs. Not a full rework. That's how we ended up with Grave lord Sacs in the first place, and I sure as heck don't want any more of that.

I'd be happy with being able to summon hordes of cheap enemies to swarm the enemy

If I wanted that style of necromancer I'd play Guild Wars 1 or Diablo. Not an Elder Scrolls game.

Cool, good for you

Vulkunne

Napalm_Death32 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

No.

Lol rather stick with a mediocre class? assuming you even played the class

No, I'll go with what I think is best as most others on here would do the same. You know there's no need to insult me as you cannot prove one way or another if I have played the class or not.

But to be honest I'd rather have a seemingly mediocre class that could be improved than a class twisted into something else from another game. If I cared enough I'd play that other game instead. You'll find many others here who regardless of what they think of my opinion will at least agree with this fact.

Another thing that others would agree with, is we don't want another 'pets' class. You know like the Sorc? Given how Sorc passives are setup and all there's quite a bit of power that comes from having pets up, 100% of the time but yet being forced into using pets so often gets tedious and annoying and distracting. I would not want that for the necro. In fact that's something I like about how the necro was setup to use pets without them being problematic.

The ghost healer heals and he goes away, two different versions with two different durations, choose the best fit for your situation... great. That's perfect. Same with bones, it procs, the thing chases the target and its gone. We had two flavors which again, suited everyone and I can't imagine why you would get rid of either of these. That's what I liked about how this necro was setup, having something for everyone, not just damage but heals and support too.

Was a good thing but now they've started something here that we did/but did not ask for. And that's a problem because they've done other things like changed Templar Jabs and DW Flurry into something weird, clunky and lackluster. This why I no longer play New World because changes like these reminds me too much of how clunky and unwieldy its combat system can be. I just hate these changes which is starting to reflect poorly on my opinion of the game itself. Other things they've done great by making changes to the NB, but really even though this is a good thing we should have had those corrections like 2 years ago.

I understand that its hard work making a video game and I'm sure there's a ton of pressure on the dev team to do various tasks but one thing I've always said is at some point they really need to stop, let everyone rest and then recover that old vision for the game and make more cautious changes instead of experimental ones and listen not even to me necessarily but to others who put in the time to provide feedback and gain a better direction. Fix Jabs, Fix Flurry, Stop breaking things we like, you know. And they're not doing that and you know what people are starting to ask questions, provide more feedback but it just feels like no one cares. The lights are on but you're not welcome in this house.

And if that's the case then it may require us to rethink why we play this game for that is the only reasonable option as we cannot choose for them to be reasonable and consistent with what we collectively are interested in seeing. Me personally I love Civ 3/4/5/6, sometimes its like a drug addiction hah. And if this continues, I may just take another hideous from the game, as others have done, which while this can be healthy it can also result in some players not coming back. But between friends and the other vagabonds out there , I don't think they really care anymore.

kaushad

I think I'd rather see necromancers with quality minions that quantity. If it's a corpse they've just raised, that could be more disposable, whereas summons could be more effective, better crafted minions, like bone lords, bone walkers, mummies/draugr or collosi.

A horde spell would best resemble the Ritual stone effective in Skyrim. Maybe a variation of Animate Blastbones, which raises something less silly than blastbones from every corpse in the radius. To make it more bigger part of the play style it would probably need a much lower ultimate cost, at expense of not ressurecting players. And for those who insist on using "pets" as magical missile, perhaps you could blow them up at will by pressing R again before the effect ends.

Nerouyn

Personally I like pet classes and would enjoy necros more if they had a perma pet.

That said, necros are in a really weird place for their class being illegal in most parts of the game. Despite most Undaunted abilities being necro themed and not triggering guards.