The fallout of poor balancing
proteinexe
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It's no secret that Necromancer and Templar are far underperforming in comparison to other classes. While other classes such as nightblade, warden and sorcerer are receiving consistent buffs making them stronger, Templar and Necromancer are left behind creating an even larger gap in class strength. In this forum post I'd like to simply discuss where it's gone so wrong to where nearly 1/3rd of the playable classes, the core to ESO, are underperforming to the point where they're laughable at being suggested in raids and PvP.
This topic has been spoke about numerous times and there's countless forum posts such as one I saw the other day titled 'Should I delete my Templar' to which people responded with a general consensus to keep the class only due to the ability to carry gear.. a mule (which is sadly funny how templar and necromancer have been reduced down mule classes).
I main templar, I mainly PvP but I love the class. For a hot minute now (a year and a half) Templar has been generally pretty bad, the buff's they have received have been in the wrong places such as beam. Why was beam buffed? Beam was a decent execute, nothing special, but the buff has not altered the class's core ability to fight. They still dont have their burst ability anymore with the changes to backlash which i still think is double dipping hence the incredibly bad drop off in damage after the patch. But the changes to jabs gutted Templar. Templar was jabs, and everyone was okay with it. It was a great spammable and unique to templar. The slight changes to jabs created noodle jabs, a jabs in which the animation was clunky, the damage was poor and the change to make it hit 3 times instead of 4 prevented a lot of gameplay styles which relied on as many consecutive hits for certain sets. Jabs was the perfect spammable and now I know at least half the decent templars for PvP look in desperation for alternatives. We see often how 'class identity' forms your changes towards classes, yet taking jabs meant now you see templars using dizzy, crushing shock, twin slashes.. generic spammables left for other classes without a good spammable. To follow up on another point I've made in previous posts, templar also require a burst skill. In PvP burst is king, the changes to backlash have made the max tooltip 7k if you're lucky. That's a skill which requires you to cast it, do as much damage to a single target as you can which usually means dropping your ult, and the payoff with a crit, high weapon damage and good pen is 7k.. nightblade farts a 8k noncrit grim focus after not having to do anything. Warden have subteraneal, DK's have whip, nightblade has bow proc, sorcs have shards, arcanists have green beam.. Templars now dont have a burst, and it shows. The title of this post is 'The Fallout of poor balancing', the fallout I talk about is some of the best PvP'ers for templar uninstalling the game after nearly 2 years of neglect when it's fairly obvious what needs to change. They havent uninstalled out of petition or resentment, they're just not interested in the game anymore when they're at the top of their class and cant hold up against a casual pvp'er with some proc sets on a nightblade that drops a 14k bow proc. They've told me they'd come back but currently it's not worth their time fighting an uphill battle when balancing seems to be unachievable. Importantly, this post isnt a bashing, I'm conveying what i've seen and heard in the community in hopes this isnt a shout into the void and that someone from ZoS in future Q&A's can explain why templar and necro have been so neglected.. no, not neglected, mishandled as we can see ZoS has tried to buff/change both classes but to no avail.
I did miss out something above if you noticed.. when listning the burst skills of classes, there was no necromancer. Necromancer would have been blastbones but that's a sore subject. I wont comment too much on Necro as I dont have a whole lot of time playing necromancer, however from the absolute outcry from the community and the non existent necro players in Cyro I can imagine it's bad. What information I do have is general knowledge such as; make skulls faster, it's stupidly slow at at range it's dodged a lot. Give them a CC. Give another skill the buff that you've given to that new blastbones change. Apart from that, if you're a necromancer player please comment as to what changes you'd like to see as I'm fairly in the dark with how they play.
My closing comment is sadly this post wont change much if anything as the PTS is out in 10 days and so ZoS would have had their meeting, decided on changes and implemented it by now. However, as stated above, it's truly amazing how other RPG's can balance up to 12 classes fairly well and yet here, in our game, nearly 1/3rd of the classes are horrendously outperformed. I've seen ZoS in the past post on the forums and ask what changes need to be made, I feel like they should be pleading the community for what changes are needed for Necro as the recent changes to blastbones havent gone down too well. Nonetheless, i look forward to the new chapter and happy easter all
This topic has been spoke about numerous times and there's countless forum posts such as one I saw the other day titled 'Should I delete my Templar' to which people responded with a general consensus to keep the class only due to the ability to carry gear.. a mule (which is sadly funny how templar and necromancer have been reduced down mule classes).
I main templar, I mainly PvP but I love the class. For a hot minute now (a year and a half) Templar has been generally pretty bad, the buff's they have received have been in the wrong places such as beam. Why was beam buffed? Beam was a decent execute, nothing special, but the buff has not altered the class's core ability to fight. They still dont have their burst ability anymore with the changes to backlash which i still think is double dipping hence the incredibly bad drop off in damage after the patch. But the changes to jabs gutted Templar. Templar was jabs, and everyone was okay with it. It was a great spammable and unique to templar. The slight changes to jabs created noodle jabs, a jabs in which the animation was clunky, the damage was poor and the change to make it hit 3 times instead of 4 prevented a lot of gameplay styles which relied on as many consecutive hits for certain sets. Jabs was the perfect spammable and now I know at least half the decent templars for PvP look in desperation for alternatives. We see often how 'class identity' forms your changes towards classes, yet taking jabs meant now you see templars using dizzy, crushing shock, twin slashes.. generic spammables left for other classes without a good spammable. To follow up on another point I've made in previous posts, templar also require a burst skill. In PvP burst is king, the changes to backlash have made the max tooltip 7k if you're lucky. That's a skill which requires you to cast it, do as much damage to a single target as you can which usually means dropping your ult, and the payoff with a crit, high weapon damage and good pen is 7k.. nightblade farts a 8k noncrit grim focus after not having to do anything. Warden have subteraneal, DK's have whip, nightblade has bow proc, sorcs have shards, arcanists have green beam.. Templars now dont have a burst, and it shows. The title of this post is 'The Fallout of poor balancing', the fallout I talk about is some of the best PvP'ers for templar uninstalling the game after nearly 2 years of neglect when it's fairly obvious what needs to change. They havent uninstalled out of petition or resentment, they're just not interested in the game anymore when they're at the top of their class and cant hold up against a casual pvp'er with some proc sets on a nightblade that drops a 14k bow proc. They've told me they'd come back but currently it's not worth their time fighting an uphill battle when balancing seems to be unachievable. Importantly, this post isnt a bashing, I'm conveying what i've seen and heard in the community in hopes this isnt a shout into the void and that someone from ZoS in future Q&A's can explain why templar and necro have been so neglected.. no, not neglected, mishandled as we can see ZoS has tried to buff/change both classes but to no avail.
I did miss out something above if you noticed.. when listning the burst skills of classes, there was no necromancer. Necromancer would have been blastbones but that's a sore subject. I wont comment too much on Necro as I dont have a whole lot of time playing necromancer, however from the absolute outcry from the community and the non existent necro players in Cyro I can imagine it's bad. What information I do have is general knowledge such as; make skulls faster, it's stupidly slow at at range it's dodged a lot. Give them a CC. Give another skill the buff that you've given to that new blastbones change. Apart from that, if you're a necromancer player please comment as to what changes you'd like to see as I'm fairly in the dark with how they play.
My closing comment is sadly this post wont change much if anything as the PTS is out in 10 days and so ZoS would have had their meeting, decided on changes and implemented it by now. However, as stated above, it's truly amazing how other RPG's can balance up to 12 classes fairly well and yet here, in our game, nearly 1/3rd of the classes are horrendously outperformed. I've seen ZoS in the past post on the forums and ask what changes need to be made, I feel like they should be pleading the community for what changes are needed for Necro as the recent changes to blastbones havent gone down too well. Nonetheless, i look forward to the new chapter and happy easter all
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Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭And Necro are Templar are a "Class Pair", with contrasting themes and similar mechanics. Like Warden and DK, Sorc and Arc. Right now in PvP Balance it seems these Class Pairs operate at an equal Tier Position.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭my stamplar is still one of my best dps toons and i still use it in vet trials
am i doing scorepushing or trifectas? heck no, but can clear and do some hard mode stuff with him and be about middle of the group in terms of the dps
i dont use this character in pvp, different ball game though, which is what it sounds like this thread is more about lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities3 -
proteinexe✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »my stamplar is still one of my best dps toons and i still use it in vet trials
am i doing scorepushing or trifectas? heck no, but can clear and do some hard mode stuff with him and be about middle of the group in terms of the dps
i dont use this character in pvp, different ball game though, which is what it sounds like this thread is more about lol
Yes and no, the fact you cant push trifectas and scorepush with a templar is the problem. Every class should have that ability. And yeh I mainly PvP and for PvP they're just cannon fodder.2 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Necro main, and I belive character balance in ESO is pretty good. Every class can heal, tank, and DPS. Every class can go for trifectas. Every class can smack well over 100k DPS which is more than enough for anything. A class isn't trash tier because it can only pull 125k dps instead of 130k dps.
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BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭proteinexe wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »my stamplar is still one of my best dps toons and i still use it in vet trials
am i doing scorepushing or trifectas? heck no, but can clear and do some hard mode stuff with him and be about middle of the group in terms of the dps
i dont use this character in pvp, different ball game though, which is what it sounds like this thread is more about lol
Yes and no, the fact you cant push trifectas and scorepush with a templar is the problem. Every class should have that ability. And yeh I mainly PvP and for PvP they're just cannon fodder.
Well if you wish every class to be able to push trifectas, than nbs (along with some other classes) need a lot more buffs.0